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Thread: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

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    Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Cause I'm not that impressed.

    I upgraded my Noctilux f1.0 to a 0.95 ASPH and... well.. I'm missing the old lady.

    0.95 is a controlled beast, super sharp at 0.95, minimal vigneting all that jazz.

    super perfect, size and weight difference is irrelevant - I used my 1.0 as a daily lens for more than 1 year, so I'm quite used to it ... BUT

    I miss 1.0 personality.

    I miss the 1.0 crazy swirly bokeh and heavy vignetting.

    I'm going to give this 0.95 ASPH lens a couple more tries, but first time I upgrade a lens and I'm heavily gutted missing the old lady.

    Construction wise, the 0.95 is rock solid, superb. Even the boxes it came with its a piece of art. But... the optics... humm.... too perfect ?

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I agree. I have only limited hands-on experience with these two beasts. But that experience, plus lots of viewing of photos from each, leaves me definitely preferring the f1.0. It's a personal thing, but I really don't like the ultra-modern, Karbe rendering. I much prefer the previous rendering (which is sort of a mix of classic and modern) ... and, for me, that's true for all Leica lenses.

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Well,

    the new 0.95 can not be too perfect - what stupid thing. It is just a better and more controlled modern optical construction. Would these possibilities have existed some 45 years ago, also the 1.0 would have had that look.

    I personally own the 1.0 and wide open at 1.0 I find it too much uncontrolled. Sure it has character - if you want that call like that, but basically it is not such a good and perfect optical design as the .95.

    Would I have (want) the money to spend I would definitely upgrade.

    Peter

    PS: not sure if I would not keep the 1.0 as well

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Just goes to point at that at this strata of lenses, each individual lens has a personality for a user to like or dislike.

    There are basically no "bad" lenses for Leica M mount, in my experience. There are only the ones I like to shoot with more than others. :-)

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    You could always turn off lens detection or add vignetting in post...

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Interestingly I felt similary when it came to the new 35mm Lux asph FLE. It was a bit too modern and lacked some of the character and slightly more attractive bokeh of its predecessor. It's subjective of course and a case can be made for either. Unfortunately for my use, the focus shift of the Pre FLE version was a bit too much of an issue. I do find the current 50mm Lux asph, although near perfect, did retain a sort of idntifiable signature that I could live with.

    As for the two Nocts,I like both and it all depends what the object is, image wise. That's what makes optics great. It's a little like ice cream flavors..there's something for everyone and we all have our likes and dislikes.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I've owned all three Noctis and currently own the .95. I actually prefer the way it renders - the wide-open bokeh is smoother and more predictable. I really like the fact that as you stop down to 2.8 or so or beyond performance converges with the 50mm Summilux - very high praise. Finally, I prefer the .95's focus throw - I find it much is easier to focus, a really important factor with this lens.

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I'd go further. All of these lenses (the various Noctis) have serious magic. The ability to turn mundane things like street signs or a candlestick into poetry. No, I'm not unhappy at all. M9 + Nocti @ f.95.



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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I never owned the Noctilux f/1 (shot one on a few occasions) but I'm extremely happy with the Noctilux 0.95 that I purchased just over a month ago. I had thought that it would be a specialty lens, and that for a majority of my 50mm work I would continue to rely upon my 50 Summilux ASPH, but I have found the Noctilux 0.95 more than up to the task. It's wonderful wide open, but stopped down also delivers IQ that is on par with it's nearest cousin.

    Having only shot a few hundred frames with the Nocti f/1 I don't feel I am in any position to judge, but I will say that I did not come away with a strong desire to purchase one.

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Hi Stephen, so that begs the question: does it still make sense to keep both the lux and the noct? I suppose the size different will be the only factor to choose the lux over noct?
    David Young
    My journey into Leica: LeicaLux.com

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosermage View Post
    Hi Stephen, so that begs the question: does it still make sense to keep both the lux and the noct? I suppose the size different will be the only factor to choose the lux over noct?
    Well that is an interesting question. I'm still learning my way around the Noctilux 0.95, but the results so far have been above my expectations. I still absolutely love the 50 Summilux ASPH, and would never considering selling it (never sell Leica glass) but the Noctilux is being used for much more than just "wide open portraits".

    I want to do more testing to see how the Nocti and Summilux compare with magenta edge in high contrast areas. If I remember correctly DN did something along these lines on La Vida Leica. I need to see if I can find that article...
    Last edited by StephenPatterson; 9th August 2012 at 06:43.

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I have the 50 Nocti f/1.0 and the 50 Lux Asph. I have not had the opportunity to try the 50 Noct 0.95, but I am thrilled to have the 1.0 as it is slightly smaller and lighter, and fortunately it is an excellent copy. Of course the rendering is very different to the 50 Lux Asph, and for this reason I am keeping both. If I need the more modern look, I use the 50 Lux.

    I do appreciate the difference in the Mandler and Karbe designs, and it is great that we do have this choice. The 75 Lux is still one of my favourite lenses too
    Charles Kalnins
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesK View Post
    The 75 Lux is still one of my favourite lenses too
    Mine too! (the 75mm Lux). With it's speed and shallow depth of field, it's sort of a cross between the two Nocts in some ways. It has a lovely uniquely recognized signature somewhat like the 50mm Lux pre asph but with a sharper (but gentle) rendering of the subject when used wide open. A versitile lens.

    I personally found the f1.0 Noct most effective when used selectively to photograph certain subjects, with the resulting rendering unique unto this lens. When used this way it too was a favorite of mine too.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 9th August 2012 at 09:57.
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    If I had to choose, I'd pick the Summilux over the Noctilux. I mean, c'mon - it's darn near perfect and quite compact.

    But luckily, I don't have to.

    There really is something about the Noctilux, shot wide open (either version really). As for the latest being "too perfect" I can see how some might say that (as well as the 35 FLE). The bokeh is different in some cases over the older version(s). I too prefer the look of the older 35. Thankfully the 50 doesn't seem to have the same "issue."

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    All of these lenses (the various Noctis) have serious magic. The ability to turn mundane things like street signs or a candlestick into poetry.
    Aw, come on Woody...that candlestick would look great with a Holga!


    Bob

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Thanks all for the inputs.

    I guess I just have to put it more to use : I knew the old 1.0 nocti like the palm of my hand, all its flaws ( erm.. personality ) and one thing I do miss DEARLY : the focusing distance.

    it DOES makes a big difference the 0.7m minimum vs 1.0m min.

    Agree with the focus throw : its much better on the 0.95 and with either Nocti, woody is spot on : you can turn almost any mundane object into something special.

    Have to give the new lady a fairer chance and shoot out the crap out of it

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I wonder if the previous suggestion of adding a vignette in post could be expanded to two layers...one for vignette and another for a varient of Gaussian Blur in those cases that you want the older lens' look.

    Each effect could be applied and manipulated independently and without changing the original picture.

    Bob

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Hey if anyone is unhappy with a nocti Ill pay the shipping to take it off your hands

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Look at my name. I'll never change it.

    I had the new version of the Noctilux for testing, a really perfect objectively.

    But, It's like a woman. Who really wants a perfect wife?

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dude163 View Post
    Hey if anyone is unhappy with a nocti Ill pay the shipping to take it off your hands
    sure mate, I'll send it to you and you will pay shipping only.

    by the way : shipping is 10.000usd
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by f 1,0 View Post
    Look at my name. I'll never change it.

    I had the new version of the Noctilux for testing, a really perfect objectively.

    But, It's like a woman. Who really wants a perfect wife?
    to be honest, I might being to harsh on the new lens.

    have to use it more.

    now : perfect wife ? I do.

    wait : already got one : wouldnt change a single hair on that woman. she is THAT perfect - for me.

    might not be everyone cup of tea, but for me, she is the most complete, gorgeous and beautifull being on the universe .
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    I wonder if the previous suggestion of adding a vignette in post could be expanded to two layers...one for vignette and another for a varient of Gaussian Blur in those cases that you want the older lens' look.

    Each effect could be applied and manipulated independently and without changing the original picture.

    Bob
    too much work

    I simply have to use it more, honestly. but initially, I'm a tad dissapointed with the lens - just "too" perfect.

    like cars I guess - new cars are, without a doubt, super performance, highly economical, aerodynamic perfect and all that jazz - but classics have something special.

    Perhaps I put my expectations too high for the most expensive Leica lens ever ? dunno, time will tell.

    Good thing about Leica lens : never lost any money on a single lens since I first bought my first one.

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I have decided to keep my Mandler lenses even though the newer varieties are very crisp with good contrast. Actually it is the 75/1.4 that convinced me to keep the other Mandlers the 1.0 included. Now when I get my MM I can put the 1.0 on my M9P and the 0.95 on the MM.

    If your 1.0 does not satisfy send it to Leica for a calibration check. I have now done that with all my older (Mandler) lenses that could be 6 bit coded and it was well worth the wait and expense.

    P.S. As far as cars go, the older ones have a corner of my heart, especially my original one owner Ruf CTR Yellowbird light weight. Heck, it still beats new Ferraris on the Daytona track during PCA events. 0-60 in around 3 seconds sure keeps the ticker going even for an old fart like me!
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I have decided to keep my Mandler lenses even though the newer varieties are very crisp with good contrast. Actually it is the 75/1.4 that convinced me to keep the other Mandlers the 1.0 included. Now when I get my MM I can put the 1.0 on my M9P and the 0.95 on the MM.

    If your 1.0 does not satisfy send it to Leica for a calibration check. I have now done that with all my older (Mandler) lenses that could be 6 bit coded and it was well worth the wait and expense.

    P.S. As far as cars go, the older ones have a corner of my heart, especially my original one owner Ruf CTR Yellowbird light weight. Heck, it still beats new Ferraris on the Daytona track during PCA events. 0-60 in around 3 seconds sure keeps the ticker going even for an old fart like me!
    I like both Mandler era designed lenses as well as many of the more modern ones. It all depends what I am shooting. If it was me personally, I would possible put a 50mm f1 on the MM giving B&W images that classic look of a bygone era and save the 0.95 for a M9 or M10 camera. Of course I should be so lucky to own these and other lenses (a few which I did at one time or another). The 75mm Lux I could envision would be great woith both cameras (the MM and M9/M10)....depending what f-stop was selected and subject matter being photographed. Of course there is no right or wrong, just ones own personal vision.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Ok,
    here I admit that I had a love-hate relation ship with the 1.0 Noctilux. Love because when you hit the focus and for certain scenes it produces a unique look. Hate because it was hit or miss.

    The Nocti 0.95 I only have a love relationship. I love the color, I love the bokeh, I love the overall look, I have it much much better under control. The only disadvantages I see are price (however the value is pretty stable) and weight (my biggest concern).

    But I am also somebody who sold his 75/1.4 3 years ago and never looked back. Why because I can focus both the Summarit (or lately the 75 Summicron) easier, faster, more reliable.
    I dont find the newer designs to produce "clinical" look. I would call it "powerfull" look with deep colors and good contrast.
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I have decided to keep my Mandler lenses even though the newer varieties are very crisp with good contrast. Actually it is the 75/1.4 that convinced me to keep the other Mandlers the 1.0 included. Now when I get my MM I can put the 1.0 on my M9P and the 0.95 on the MM.

    P.S. As far as cars go, the older ones have a corner of my heart, especially my original one owner Ruf CTR Yellowbird light weight. Heck, it still beats new Ferraris on the Daytona track during PCA events. 0-60 in around 3 seconds sure keeps the ticker going even for an old fart like me!
    You are spot on : 1.0 should be brilliant on the MM - the flatter contrast and swirlier bokeh would suit the MM perfectly.

    Oh well, couldnt justifiy to keep both - hurts that my 1.0 was a perfect copy in terms of focus shift.

    Don't start talking about Porsches - my Turbo is my pride and joy and gosh... REALLY ? CTR Yellowbird LW ? mateeeeeeeeeeee... in Leica terms my Porsche is a Zeiss 35 2.8 and that is a Noctilix 0.95 ASPH keep that baby forever
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by proenca View Post
    sure mate, I'll send it to you and you will pay shipping only.

    by the way : shipping is 10.000usd

    Hahahah nice ! I got pwned

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Just a suggestion, but anyone with an older lens that does not seem right focusing wise or any other way, send it in to Leica for a 6 bit coding and they will do the calibration/specification check included in the price.

    In the US it's only USD130 for this service including the 6 bit coding.

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Just a suggestion, but anyone with an older lens that does not seem right focusing wise or any other way, send it in to Leica for a 6 bit coding and they will do the calibration/specification check included in the price.

    In the US it's only USD130 for this service including the 6 bit coding.
    good tip ; however, to have spot on focusing, please be aware that you must send the camera as well ( aware in the sense that you will be without camera for the timeframe of the coding/adjustment )

    takes abour 3 weeks turnaround time - 180 euros if I recall correctly.

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by proenca View Post
    good tip ; however, to have spot on focusing, please be aware that you must send the camera as well ( aware in the sense that you will be without camera for the timeframe of the coding/adjustment )

    takes abour 3 weeks turnaround time - 180 euros if I recall correctly.
    All the more reason to own for than one M.

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?


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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosermage View Post
    Hi Stephen, so that begs the question: does it still make sense to keep both the lux and the noct? I suppose the size different will be the only factor to choose the lux over noct?
    I’d say no. I sold my 50 Lux ASPH to buy the f/0.95 and use it as my primary 50. When I absolutely want to go small and/or light I use my50 Cron (non APO) or my 1937 vintage 5cm f/1.5 Sonnar, which is even smaller and lighter, though far less perfect.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    You just succesfully revived a 5 years old thread

    That being said, the .95 is my ”daily driver”. No need for other 50’s.
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    My 0.95 lives on my M. A truly remarkable lens. Not just how sharp it is, it's the colour and tonality, wonderful.

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Can we see some pictures, folks?

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I kept my Lux-Asph and my f1.0 Noct. I decided to stay with the 1.0 instead of the 0.95 mainly due to the size, weight and the flaw of the 1.0

    Here are a few snaps I took with it.

    L1001196.jpg by VINCE, on Flickr

    L1001203.jpg by VINCE, on Flickr

    L1001210.jpg by VINCE, on Flickr

    L1001224.jpg by VINCE, on Flickr

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Can we see some pictures, folks?
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Lovely, Vince!
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Lovely, Vince!
    +1! I couldn't agree more.

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?



    f0.95 wide open on my MM.
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I only have one to thing to say about this: Mandler was a GOD of lens design and the resulting character.





    (And I'm willing fight with anybody who disagrees.)




    Computers and aspheric elements can render more perfect optical performance, but perfection in optical performance for creative imaging is significantly over-rated --- lest you have a specific need for it, and I submit ultra-wide-aperture/shallow DOF imaging is not going to require that need... Any of us present or past Leica photographers with a predominant amount of gray hair, know and respect the capabilities of Mandler lenses. If I were to resurge to Leica M, I would immediately buy a 28/2 Cron (it drew exceptionally well, but not certain it was a Mandler lens -- had to at least be one of his contemporaries ), pre-asph 50 and 75 Summilux's, and probably a 21/2.8 Elmarit as well; and in R I wouldn't even consider a body unless I could also immediately buy a 19/2.8 and an 80/1.4.

    PS: We used to refer the specific Mandler-style look as "juice"
    Last edited by Jack; 19th October 2017 at 06:21.
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I only have one to thing to say about this: Mandler was a GOD of lens design and the resulting character.





    (And I'm willing fight with anybody who disagrees.)
    The reason I keep my Mandler 50mm Summilux-M around.
    -bob
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Jack, I much agree with almost all your thoughts (boxing gloves can be kept in the drawer), especially regarding Mandlers prowess in designing lenses that draw in a very special way. Where I disagree is on two points:

    1. Although I should have a head of gray hair by now, (but don't) its not a prerequisite in order to recognize and appreciate Mandler's lens designs and their attributes. .

    2. The second is your selection of the one of the Leica 28mm f2.8 lenses. Not sure which one you were referring to? The 28mm f2.8 asph is very modern and of extremely high contrast, so much so, it often blows out highlights with ease. Bitingly sharp but I wouldn't say it has any abundance of a signature, especially in the Mandler sense.

    The Leica 28mm that comes to mind is the Leica 28mm f2.0 Summicron asph. Its sharp and yes it is asph, but it"s more forgiving and renders in a gentler way...sort of like the 75mm Summilux.

    The other choice might be one of the Leica 28mm f2.8 pre asph lenses although they do lack some corner sharpness and does not have much in the way of a strong signature.

    I very much like your choice of a 21mm!

    The 50mm Lux pre asph as mentioned by you and Bob is a lovely lens, but right up there is the current Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f1.5. Its look is very much Mandler in style (and I'd give it the nod for a 50mm) but it max. resolution overall falls short of the Lux 50mm pre asph.

    What's interesting is of course to use R lenses on a M body, would require use of one of the M240 varients or the M10...yet one could say if any one digital M body has a recognizable look and signature, even with its imperfections (much the same Mandler lenses had imperfections as opposed to being technically perfect), it would have to be the Leica M9 series. Then again with the M9 body, you couldn't use R lenses as you well know.

    I will let it be known that I plan on repurchasing all the Mandler lenses discussed in this thread (including the 50mm f1 Noct), just as soon as I can locate the winning power ball ticket I misplaced in my sock drawer...LOL.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 19th October 2017 at 06:49.
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Dave,

    No problem on the gray hair

    I was actually thinking of the 28 CRON and not the pre asph or asph Elmarits -- I will edit my above to correct that. The 28 Cron was so nice, it ended up usurping my beloved 35 pre-asph Lux -- another wonderful optic -- and so much so I eventually sold it due to lack of use. My normal carry pack ended up being the 21, 28, 50 and a 90 TE of all things, but I had a good copy that I liked the way it drew, and it served it's purpose very well whenever needed. I owned the 75 Lux and 90 Cron at the time too, but as well as they drew they were biggish and I preferred the smaller lens to carry. Today would be different, though I *might* also get another 90 TE in addition to the 4 above just because
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Dave,

    No problem on the gray hair

    I was actually thinking of the 28 CRON and not the pre asph or asph Elmarits -- I will edit my above to correct that. The 28 Cron was so nice, it ended up usurping my beloved 35 pre-asph Lux -- another wonderful optic -- and so much so I eventually sold it due to lack of use. My normal carry pack ended up being the 21, 28, 50 and a 90 TE of all things, but I had a good copy that I liked the way it drew, and it served it's purpose very well whenever needed. I owned the 75 Lux and 90 Cron at the time too, but as well as they drew they were biggish and I preferred the smaller lens to carry. Today would be different, though I *might* also get another 90 TE in addition to the 4 above just because
    Yes, that 28mm cron (asph) is lovely and a great choice for that focal length. I know its subjective, but personally I would choose the 90mm Elmarit-M f2.8 over the 90mm TE although a good copy of the 90 TE is nice. The Elmarit-M was the latest and last of the 90mm f2.8 lenses (with it's built in hood) before that line was discontinued and both structurally and optically I feel it was the best compromise. Wide open it renders much like the 28mm cron but with a touch of softness, ideal for portraits and close up nature/flower shots. Stopped down to f4 and beyond, it has the same degree of sharpness as the 28mm cron, plenty sharp but with a roundness to the way it draws, but without the bitingly sharpness and sometimes harshness of the 90mm f2.0 cron AA. The 90mm Elmarit-M has become a favorite of many.

    Even though I am sometimes drawn to the faster bigger lenses such as the f1 Noct or 75mm Lux, I sort of feel the M body balances best with the smaller f1.4 and especially f2 lenses. On a Leica SL body though, the larger lenses would be ideal for balance.

    Not to throw this thread off topic....as technically near perfect as the 50mm f0.95 is for a lens of this speed, I would personally choose a good copy of the f1 Noct. I don't feel its a one trick pony as when shooting it at f4 or f5.6, it renders much as a classical Mandler lens and fits right in with the 21mm Elmarit-M, 28mm cron, 50mm Lux pre asph and similar.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Dave, I agree for the most part. I really preferred the way the 90TE drew over the regular 90 E wide open -- slightly softer and lower contrast, and sharpened up to outstanding from 3.5 up. The 90 E was stellar and the (slightly) better optic overall -- but the diminutive size of the TE kept it in my bag all the time, where the other 90's always seemed to have been "left behind" when I actually needed them

    Re the Noct -- I liked it but... It was a beast by Lecia M standards, it had an inconveniently long focus throw for an M lens, and the 50 Lux was a better performer right from F1.4 up. So my conclusion on the Noct was the only reason to own it was if you were going to shoot it wide open to utilize it's f1.0 (or 0.95) -- and I simply didn't shoot that way very often and had the Lux at f1.4 which delivered a very similar look, so eventually sold myself off the Noct in favor of my beloved 50 pre-asph Lux. Admittedly though, the Noct was a lens I bought and sold at least 3 and maybe 4 times because I did like the way it drew wide open and missed not having it in my cabinet . But also, every time I owned it, it seemed to mostly just sit in the cabinet, always grabbing my 50 Lux instead --- such was my Leica M madness

    PS and advance apologies to OP for drifting OT a little, but hopefully it's forgiven This is one of my 90 TE shots from a trip to Southern France in 2000 -- I'm going to guess it was Plus-X or FP4 developed normally, then scanned on a Nikon 9000. The lens was probably set to 5.6 to give me a bit of focus-error room to capture the action. While it appears I might be in the ring with matador, I can assure that was not the case and I shot from the stands!:

    Last edited by Jack; 19th October 2017 at 07:47.
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Jack, great shot! Looks like a scene I would have expected taken in Spain, not France (one too many glasses of wine...LOL!). You also hit the nail on the head in one important aspect when it comes to 90 TE vs. 90 Elemarit-M (90 E). Size and balance. The 90 TE as you mentioned wins hands down in that department. The 90 E is a bit long and somewhat front heavy. Agree too that the slightly dreamy look is there far more in abundance with the 90 TE...but the issue with the 90 TE is finding a good copy. There are a lot that don't sharpen up too well upon stopping down. Again, its very subjective when choosing all these lenses which have "a look".

    LOL...your story regarding the f1 Noct...both in buying and selling countless of times is a very common story with this lens (myself included). Bet most every copy has seen multiple owners during their lifetime. I almost said it would be fun to know of each lenses travels too, to far flung corners of the earth, but something tells me it most often saw the walls of an equipment cabinet more than anything else..LOL!

    I have/had a love-slighty dislike for the 50mm Lux asph. Very close to the signature of the f0.95 Noct (as you aptly described) and thus technically a tour de force with a very nice look, but certainly no Mandler 50mm Lux pre asph.

    I often wondered.....Peter Karbe of Leica has a predilection for very sharp, high performance, near optical perfection in designing lenses. He's certainly succeeded on that front. I often wondered if that might have been Mandler's goals too but of course was constrained at the time by what means were available in designing lenses and that the way his lenses "drew" were simply a consequence of the residual optical aberrations he was unable to remove with available means to him. Certainly computer designed optical formulas were not at his disposal. Alternatively maybe that would have been his ultimate goal (lenses with strong character), even if designing lenses today and that technical optical perfection took a back seat to other optical attributes related to image making.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    Re Mandler:

    I remember reading an interview with him somewhere long ago, probably one of the dedicated Leica mags, where he alluded to the fact that lens design was a tradeoff in priorities, and he chose to balance the faster aperture lenses with the best resolution and contrast he could manage coupled with the aberrations he felt were friendly in the final image, as opposed to going for absolute resolution and accepting nastier aberrations. Whatever it was, he definitely succeeded in my book
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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I vaguely recall reading a similar article regarding his time spent at Leica (maybe the same article), having taken place when he was in Midland Canada, although I don't recall the specifics.

    The part that intriques me is what sorts of nastier aberations might have been introduced if he attempted for more well corrected, sharper lenses? Field curvature? Possibly and/or a less attractive bokeh.

    The study of optics is of course a complex field of which each optical designer of lenses has their own expertise and set of objectives to achieve.

    Finding a balance seems to have been Mandlers goal although lenses like the 35mm Lux pre asph to some errs on one side of the equation, whereas the current 35mm Lux asph FLE is on the other. The lens inbetween these two is the 35mm Lux asph pre FLE and its optical signature falls sort of squarely between the two. Sharp even at f1.4 but draws lovely without being clinical or too perfect.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Noctilux : 1.0 to 0.95 : anyone not happy ?

    I like both versions of the Nocti - but I prefer to have a uniform 'look' from my leica lens collection- so pretty much all of my lenses are the modern ashperical designs.
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