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Thread: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

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    Member StephenPatterson's Avatar
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    New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    With the latest firmware release indicating a new code for a 28/1.4 the possibility definitely exists that we may soon see a new 28mm M mount lens from Leica, which begs the question in my heart; do I need a 28mm lens?

    This is a focal length that I have not owned since my Canon AT-1 days in the 1970s. With my M9 I jump from my most used lens (35 Summilux FLE) to the ultra wide 21/3.4 Super-Elmar-M. My preference for this lens is that the 35 does so many things well, is great for street photography as it does not cause too much distortion with environmental portraits and is fast in low light. I have always felt that when the need arises for wide I might as well go R E A L L Y wide, hence the 21.

    And then there's the whole question of price. It's hard to imagine (given the recent 50 Summicron APO pricing) that this would be a $5000 lens (like the 35 Summilux FLE) but will probably be at least $7000-$8500. Hmmm, I may have just answered my own question...

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Depends on the situations you find yourself in Stephen. I use a 28mm on the M quite a bit at weddings because I find myself in tight rooms frequently. Same for the 35mm on the S2 which is close to 28mm FOV.

    I also use it to shoot group portraits because by the time you crop the usual 8X10 print size from a 35mm aspect ratio you need a bit wider anyway.

    I also find it the better compliment to a 50mm for a two or three lens kit ... 28/50 or 28/50/90.

    I have a 21/1.4, 28/2, 35/1.4, 50/1.4 and 90/2.8 system. I seriously doubt I'd pony up to Leica's new pricing philosophy given the 28/2 ASPH is already such an excellent lens.

    -Marc
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    I wasn't so sure either until I got my 28 Cron. Turns out it's one of my favorite lenses to shoot with. One nice thing is there are still framelines for it in the VF whereas with a 21 or 24(25) you'll need an external - which I'm totally not into.

    Depends on your lens lineup too as Marc mentions. I have a similar spread.

    Would I get the new Lux over the Cron? Probably not. Sure, it'd be nice to have the speed but I fear the price. Every new lens seems to be $7k these days... And truth be told, I'm pretty happy at f/2 as it is. Plus there's the size increase as well.
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    The 28 Cron lives on my M9. But then I've always been partial to that FoV, and use it most often on any camera. This lens, in particular, draws beautifully. I just like the output from it.

    --Matt
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    I am pretty much with Stephen- I either like using 35 (more like a wider normal lens) or when I go wide I like real wide and therefore switch to 21mm.
    I also own 24 and 28 - but dont use them as much as I thought I would.
    On the other side on the S2- where the 35mm (=28mm FOV) lens is my only wide angle I use it quite a bit.
    I dont think one needs both 28 and 35mm at the same time.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Always depends on what you enjoy shooting and to a certain extent how comfortable you are in getting close . I find the 28 perfect for street photography because its as wide as you can go without distorting on the edges . not so great for people pictures) . The advantage of wide is you can shoot looser and avoid clipping of hands /feet etc .

    Most PJ look at 24-35 as there prime shooting range and you can adjust to any of these focal lengths ....its clearly a preference item . It is very hard to use a 35 without careful framing thru the VF ...but with a 28 I can shoot at the level of my shoes or above my head and generally get adequate room to not clip something important .

    I shoot with two M bodies and typically start with the 28/2 on one and a 50/1.4asph on the other . I prefer the 21/3.4 and the 90/2.8 (as my other two lenses) for most daylight street shooting . Size and handling are more important than speed at those focal lengths (for me).

    Hopefully Leica will keep the 28/1.4 small or at least proportionate ..in between the size of the 24 and the 35 . I too expect it will be similar to the other summiluxes so maybe between $5-7K . Throw out the pricing of the 50 sum micron asph as an exception ... Leica kept the price of the 21/3.4asph at $3K and its as good as it gets from pure IQ and handling (just too slow for some uses). They could easily have raised the prices of the 35 and 50 asph summiluxes ..a lot to match FMV . So I am hoping for around $6K verse $4300 for the 28/2 asph .

    This is my number one item from Photokina as 30% of my work is Leica M 28mm FOV.

    With that said ...the 28/2asph has a combination of high resolution ,great micro contrast and beautiful color transmission (classic sum micron) that may not be equaled .
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    Senior Member Gary Clennan's Avatar
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    For us M8 shooters, 28mm is perhaps the most used focal length....
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    This is my number one item from Photokina as 30% of my work is Leica M 28mm FOV.
    Agreed. I am much more excited about a possible 28 Summilux (if the price is not outrageous) than I am a bastardized M5.2 (I mean M10) with video, live view, cup holders, a 60" LCD, etc.

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    If you're going to go wide (and need it) - go WIDE. Both Leica and Zeiss make fantastic ultra-wides (e.g. 21mm and 18mm). Just know that with them you need an external VF and framing is more important due to converging lines, etc.

    (Though I'd still want either a 24/25 or 28)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Clennan View Post
    For us M8 shooters, 28mm is perhaps the most used focal length....
    I never did get a 28mm with the M8; though close. My favorite was the Biogon 2,8/25 ZM. Unbelievable performance and on the wider side of a "35mm" equivalent. Though now I use the Cron more - and on the M9. Mainly because of coding and build.

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    I think my desire for a 28mm lens is mainly for street photography, as the DOF is greater than the 35 and there is much less distortion than with a 21. I may need to look into 28 Summicron lenses during my next visit to Hong Kong, especially if this as yet unannounced lens comes in at the high end of the price estimates.

    As for wide lenses I have both the 18 and 21 Super Elmar lenses, and do not mind using the fixed focal length Leica external viewfinders. I also use the Leica Universal Viewfinder (aka The Frankenfinder) for more demanding work.

    When I had my M8 I used the Zeiss 21/2.8 as my widest lens.

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by StephenPatterson View Post
    Agreed. I am much more excited about a possible 28 Summilux (if the price is not outrageous) than I am a bastardized M5.2 (I mean M10) with video, live view, cup holders, a 60" LCD, etc.
    Forget the Video and live view....but cup holders and a 60" LCD...now were talking...LOL!

    I also agree with Stephen...on a 35mm full frame camera, especially when using a rangefinder M camera, I'm partial towards the 35mm focal length (espcially for street photography). If there is the desire to go to a wide view, it's most often the 21mm. Where I sometime gravitate to a 28mm, is for landscapes, more so than using this focal length for a wider urban perspective. In that regard, the 28mm Cron is seductive with its combination of optical performance, relative speed, reasonable size and overall in the way it draws an image. Its not a focal length I use enough to justify a faster lens (but I've said those words before )

    What I find curious is that I also often use the Pentax 35mm 645 lens (28mm FOV) on the 645D, which seems to go hand in hand with S2 users here that prefer a 35mm lens on their M9 but find themselves using a lens with an equivelent 28mm FOV with their MFD.

    When Leica decided to make fast f1.4 21 & 24mm lenses, only f2.8 speed lenses were available in the M line, so it was a two f-stop jump in aperture. With regards to the 28mm, we already have a f2 lens, so I'm not completely sold that Leica sees a f1.4 28mm as a priority...but who knows?

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 15th August 2012 at 08:38.
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    I ve been asking for this lens now for 4 years . Some of my friends added it to their list of questions for S. Daniel . At the last Photokina ...the official position was ..we don t need it . The 28/2 is the right balance of size speed and overall IQ (and price) . Same answer on the 50/2 summicron .

    Now the position is .....customers keep asking for it so ...?????

    Nice to have so many great choices even if they are expensive .

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    My dealer just received the 28/2 I had ordered 2 weeks ago. I opted for this lens since at times I do not want to mess with an external finder on the street with my 21 or 24.

    I have had very pleasing results with my 21/1.4, more than I had imagined. On a recent 2 week trip I took along my 24/1.4 instead of the 21/1.4 and found myself longing for the 21/1.4.

    I will see if the 28 Cron is what I hope for since there are frame lines for it and then if there is a 28/1.4 someday I might go for it should the 28/2 prove highly useful for me. But having the 35/1.4 on my camera most of the time I just wonder if the 28 will leave me wishing I had the 21 back on the camera, like the 24 just did.

    I often tend to shoot in low light inside and often at night outside so faster lenses work for me. I tend to use higher f stops for added DOF.

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    I'm excited about this lens, but, as others have stated, the price will possibly be too high. And the size of the lens will be an issue too. I really liked the 24 elmarit f/2,8, but it was sooooo big, I sold it and got a 35 cron.

    Currently I'm trying the 28 cron and am liking it a lot--except for the huge lens hood! 28 was my preferred fov when I had a DSLR, but I never warmed to the 28 elmarit on my M8, preferring the 35 cron instead. However, I sold the 28 elmarit before really getting a chance to fully explore it on my M9.

    I find 35 a little tight sometimes and a 24 too wide as an everyday lens. The 28, for me, feels right. While I'm likening the 28 cron, I'm thinking a 28 elmarit may be sufficient. I also recently tried a 35 lux and loved f/1,4 I could see having a 28 elmarit for its compactness and a 35 lux for its speed.

    Anyway, it's great hearing others take and preferences!

    Cheers!

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    What I find curious is that I also often use the Pentax 35mm 645 lens (28mm FOV) on the 645D, which seems to go hand in hand with S2 users here that prefer a 35mm lens on their M9 but find themselves using a lens with an equivelent 28mm FOV with their MFD.
    f1.4 28mm as a priority...but who knows?

    Dave (D&A)
    Hi Dave, with the S2 there is not that much choice between 28 and 35mm FOV
    But I think it is also the room for cropping when having 36mp.

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    You can replace the large lens hood for the 28/2 several ways . The previous version 35 1.4 asph lens hood is smaller looks similar and fits perfectly . There are short wide hoods for a 46mm size filter on ebay for less than $10 . You have to watch the corners wide open as some work and others don t . Then there is an expensive + $300 metal hood for the 28 thats seen on some of the limited edition sets . Or really do you need one at all? I went with the smaller leica 35/1.4asph hood and found it about perfect .

    Any 28/1.4asph just about has to be larger than the 35/1.4asph but smaller than the 24/1.4asph . Leica has said they want to keep future M lenses smaller . It will be larger than the 24/2.8asph for sure .






    Quote Originally Posted by mtsullivan View Post
    I'm excited about this lens, but, as others have stated, the price will possibly be too high. And the size of the lens will be an issue too. I really liked the 24 elmarit f/2,8, but it was sooooo big, I sold it and got a 35 cron.

    Currently I'm trying the 28 cron and am liking it a lot--except for the huge lens hood! 28 was my preferred fov when I had a DSLR, but I never warmed to the 28 elmarit on my M8, preferring the 35 cron instead. However, I sold the 28 elmarit before really getting a chance to fully explore it on my M9.

    I find 35 a little tight sometimes and a 24 too wide as an everyday lens. The 28, for me, feels right. While I'm likening the 28 cron, I'm thinking a 28 elmarit may be sufficient. I also recently tried a 35 lux and loved f/1,4 I could see having a 28 elmarit for its compactness and a 35 lux for its speed.

    Anyway, it's great hearing others take and preferences!

    Cheers!
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Hi Dave, with the S2 there is not that much choice between 28 and 35mm FOV
    But I think it is also the room for cropping when having 36mp.
    Hi Paratom,

    Your explanation regarding far more limited wide angle choices with regards to the S2 and Pentax 645D, may have resulted in users of these cameras having little choice but to except a 28mm FOV, even though they might otherwise prefer 35mm "FOV".

    Yet something tells me it's not simply due to having 37+MP and ability to crop to a narrow view in picking a lens with a FOV of 28mm, since I know a few D800 users who also use either a S2 or 645D along with a lens having a FOV of 28mm.....yet on their D800, they much prefer a 35mm lens for their uses (even though if they had gone a bit wider, they could crop).

    I hope this all didn't sound too confusing.

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    I got the 28 2.8 when I first got an M8 as I wanted a 35mm POV

    Then the M9 came, and i discovered that i liked an actual 28 POV.
    Then i got the S2 initially only with the 35 which as the same POV as the 28


    Then I got an iPhone which is 28mm POV too.

    So now I "see in 28
    Now I only use my 35M when I need a 1.4

    So a 1.4 would be useful for me for 28.
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    The choice of a moderate wide angle is very personal and often depends on which lens and FOV “feels right “ . You really can t knock any of the three common choices 24/28/35. Historically the 35 was the lens of choice on an M . It was the widest you could go with out a finder . Fast versions 1.4/2.0 have been available back into the 80 s .

    When Leica changed the frame lines ..you could now get a 28 without an external finder making it acceptable to more photographers . There were t any 24 s out there and when they finally added the 24/2.8asph it was 1-2 slower than the 28/35 alternatives . Now that you can get a 24/28/35 thats fast ..its your choice .

    Some of the newspaper PJ s have moved to 24 because getting the shot is most important and you can always crop to a 28 . If you always shoot thru the viewfinder ...you can make the 35 work but I find that I get clipping of the hands and feet ..too often . The 24 on the other hands means you are getting seriously close on the street if you want a decent image size and you have to be more careful about technique than is possible in a moving situation . This is why I prefer the 28 as my lens for street and travel ..it has a nice balance . I do use a 24/35 combination when I need faster lenses . e.g. Christmas in NYC ..I use the 24/35/75 summiluxes . South Beach in January ...its the 28/50/90 sum microns .
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Of course, there's also talk of a new 28 Cron. APO? $7k? Who wants in on the pool?

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    Of course, there's also talk of a new 28 Cron.APO? $7k?
    Highly unlikely IMO. Is an APO 28mm lens even a practical proposition?

    More likely is a revised lens barrel design and hood arrangement using the same optics as the present Summicron. Such a lens would no longer be prone to having the front of the lens coming loose and it would bring it into line with the other newer lenses that use an externally threaded hood. Leica have form in this regard revising the mechanics of a lens but sticking to exactly the same optical design when they introduced the second version of the 28-35-50 Tri-Elmar.
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by wattsy View Post
    Highly unlikely IMO. Is an APO 28mm lens even a practical proposition?

    More likely is a revised lens barrel design and hood arrangement using the same optics as the present Summicron. Such a lens would no longer be prone to having the front of the lens coming loose and it would bring it into line with the other newer lenses that use an externally threaded hood. Leica have form in this regard revising the mechanics of a lens but sticking to exactly the same optical design when they introduced the second version of the 28-35-50 Tri-Elmar.
    Agree most likely a revised barrel and hood same as on limited edition models . Even though Leica s new products have been higher priced ...I still think they are intending to have a balanced product line with different price points . So I am not assuming that all new lenses will be $7K . Both the 21 and 24 summiluxes are substantial lenses utilizing expensive glass . So that leaves only the 21/24 lux ,the Noctilux and the 50APO above $5K . At least in $$$ we also have a substantial decline in the Euro since the prices were established last .

    The question I have is why even have the 28/2 ...the line would be balanced with the 28/2.8 asph and a new 28/1.4 asph ..and pricing would be decent at $3K for the 2.8 version and $6K for the 1.4 version .

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by StephenPatterson View Post
    With the latest firmware release indicating a new code for a 28/1.4 the possibility definitely exists that we may soon see a new 28mm M mount lens from Leica, which begs the question in my heart; do I need a 28mm lens?

    This is a focal length that I have not owned since my Canon AT-1 days in the 1970s. With my M9 I jump from my most used lens (35 Summilux FLE) to the ultra wide 21/3.4 Super-Elmar-M. My preference for this lens is that the 35 does so many things well, is great for street photography as it does not cause too much distortion with environmental portraits and is fast in low light. I have always felt that when the need arises for wide I might as well go R E A L L Y wide, hence the 21.

    And then there's the whole question of price. It's hard to imagine (given the recent 50 Summicron APO pricing) that this would be a $5000 lens (like the 35 Summilux FLE) but will probably be at least $7000-$8500. Hmmm, I may have just answered my own question...
    28mm is a great lens on FF!

    2/28 for M is a perfect lens!

    I doubt I really would need a 1.4/28
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Agree most likely a revised barrel and hood same as on limited edition models . Even though Leica s new products have been higher priced ...I still think they are intending to have a balanced product line with different price points . So I am not assuming that all new lenses will be $7K . Both the 21 and 24 summiluxes are substantial lenses utilizing expensive glass . So that leaves only the 21/24 lux ,the Noctilux and the 50APO above $5K . At least in $$$ we also have a substantial decline in the Euro since the prices were established last .

    The question I have is why even have the 28/2 ...the line would be balanced with the 28/2.8 asph and a new 28/1.4 asph ..and pricing would be decent at $3K for the 2.8 version and $6K for the 1.4 version .
    I think Leica needs to be careful in this regard. Maybe 28/2.0 is just the rgiht compromise between speed and size. I would not like if the only offer super fast big lenses and small slow lenses in the future.
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    28 cron is good enough for me, by far...fantastic lens..hood needs a re-design...new 28 cron will probably have more contrast, floating element, and a better hood. 28 lux would be pretty big, I suspect....given that the 24 and 21 luxes are much larger than their slower counterparts....

    28 takes a back seat to 35 for me, and I have the wonderful 35 FLE...just don't see a need for an ultrafast medium wide option, with a 24 lux and 35 lux FLE already in my kit...but I am sure many will love it...

    Like Stephen, an M10 as currently rumored offers very little interest to me, unless they are holding out on something...
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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    You can replace the large lens hood for the 28/2 several ways . The previous version 35 1.4 asph lens hood is smaller looks similar and fits perfectly . There are short wide hoods for a 46mm size filter on ebay for less than $10 . You have to watch the corners wide open as some work and others don t . Then there is an expensive + $300 metal hood for the 28 thats seen on some of the limited edition sets . Or really do you need one at all? I went with the smaller leica 35/1.4asph hood and found it about perfect .

    Any 28/1.4asph just about has to be larger than the 35/1.4asph but smaller than the 24/1.4asph . Leica has said they want to keep future M lenses smaller . It will be larger than the 24/2.8asph for sure .
    Roger-
    Is that previous 35/1.4 hood you're talking about hood #12504 that comes with lens #11870?

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Roger-
    Is that previous 35/1.4 hood you're talking about hood #12504 that comes with lens #11870?
    No, it's hood #12859 that came with the previous version ASPH lens #11874.

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    Re: New 28 Summilux - Hmmmmm

    Thanks Ian. I found it hood#12589.

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