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Thread: Leica M9 Killer and why?

  1. #1
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    Leica M9 Killer and why?

    I think as much as we hate this title, it can only be validated by its replacement or within Leica, since Photokina 2012 is around the corner now, the Leica M9 can go down in history as the first Full Frame Digital Leica M-mount Rangefinder.

    We all expect the M10 is coming soon and I ask you all who have used the M9, and thinking about the M10 what you really want to see in the M10.

    Rumors always pointed out to a Leica EVIL camera as well, whether this will bring a new mount or use existing M mount I'm sure it will be revealing.

    Sure, it's pointless speculation since it's just around the corner, but Leica have always delivered hardware a generation or two behind and we have still bought into their systems. A M9 and a new lens during its release was $10k club membership, and since then I have sold my camera, three Leica lenses, and three Zeiss M lenses.

    I don't really expect to be back in the Leica club, but I am enthusiastic with what Leica has achieved and really love their lenses. If the M camera is a ticket to M-mount lenses, is the asking price significantly different today with the recent announcements and economy. Do you have reason to rejoin the M or not? Features you don't want to miss on a new M?

    I just want to hear the opinions and useful discussion notes from friends here at GetDPI, before we go into the usual bashing when a product finally comes to market and price is announced.
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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    Here's my 2 cents, given what little I know and have read about Leica and lenses over the last few months

    The M9 is an interesting camera. Trying to shoehorn a full frame sensor into the M9 was a huge challenge, and Leica was not able to go down the CMOS route as long as it wanted to ensure reverse compatibility of all its M lenses through the years on the M9. It was forced to employ the use of a CCD sensor, which only became viable when microlens technology was viable (price feasibility).

    Given the ray angle physics involved between the lenses, sensor and flange distance, it is extremely unlikely that Leica would be able to produce a body that offers full frame without either

    a. discontinuing support for all and legacy M lenses
    b. stick with CCD but offer some sort of Live View (Phase One IQ backs are already capable of Live View to some extent) which would then be used instead of a CMOS (software control on vignetting only works so far - pushing more than 1 stop to fight off vignette will introduce noise in the corners that may be unacceptable when the final RAW is pushed another stop or two in post) to offer focus peaking, which would circumvent focusing challenges (of course, the ability of the sensor to deliver a sufficiently high refresh rate to the EVF might be a challenge in itself) and improve hit rate from off-focus shots.

    What would I like to see in an M10?

    - focus peaking
    - EVF with live exposure
    - Ability to handle AE up to 5 minutes
    - compatibility with all current and legacy M mount lenses
    - clean ISO up to 6400
    - 16-bit/channel RGB
    - selectable spot/evaluative/average metering
    - a more silent shutter operation
    - a brighter viewfinder (the Zeiss Ikon's viewfinder makes the M9's look like a joke)

    Of course, all of the above completely violates the basic principles of M shooting - a completely basic camera system that offers the best quality capture medium using the best quality lenses without superfluous technology/features that would distract the user from the task at hand - capturing the moment.
    My images on 500px : http://500px.com/ghoonk
    H4D-40 | Xpan | Leica M9P | Leica M Monochrom | X100 | Hasselblad 500CM | 501CM | 503CXi

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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    To add - while many EVIL cameras today will take adapters for M-mount lenses, these lenses are projecting onto a crop sensor. The really ugly stuff - vignetting and color shifts - don't really show up as badly (though noticeable, nonetheless) on crop sensors. A leading reviewer did extensive testing on the NEX7 and found image quality to be noticeably 'behind' when compared to an M9 sensor. On m43 sensors, this is even less of an issue due to the 2x crop factor - but that also means that a 35mm Summicron is going to be a 70mm Summicron, leaving few options for wide angles with existing M lenses (the 21/3.4 Super Elmar already becomes a mid-range 42mm!)
    My images on 500px : http://500px.com/ghoonk
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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    What I would want to see in a M10 (but dont expect)?

    -Somewhat better ISO performance, but please still CCD (I can explain but I seem to prefer the look of cads)
    -better buffer
    -better display
    -less noisy shutter
    -reduced shutter lag
    -display of exp time when shooting in manual mode
    -price reduction
    -better battery capacity
    -keep everything else like it is in the M9
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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    Paratom: You've just fixed the M9!
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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Paratom: You've just fixed the M9!
    Well, its not difficult to fix things which are very good already
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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    Leica needs a custom (or at least modified) sensor for the M-system to allow a large sensor with existing lenses. The underlying semiconductor-technology (CMOS or CCD) is not affected by this.

    The new camera presented on Photokina will have a M-mount AND a 24x36mm CMOS-sensor most likely custom-made by STmicroelectronics to allow the use of M-lenses - we are 99% certain.
    Last edited by georgl; 14th September 2012 at 22:07.
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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    Honestly there's not a whole lot more I "need" from the M outside of a modern rear LCD screen. They are too inexpensive today to not justify having at least a 920K+ rear LCD screen.

    I would like the rumored R adapter and EVF to use R lenses for my telephoto fix beyond 135mm. I would like Live view and/ or focus confirmation for lenses we love that exhibit focus shift. I would like the next M to be 24 megapixels or less. I would like the price to not go higher than the current prices for the M9/M9-P. I would also like Leica to introduce an upgrade program to convert my M9-P to an MM.
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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    since there have been hidden "mules" testing the last few leica products pre-release, my guess is Monday we will suddenly see full reviews already pre-written
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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    Yes, maybe a few friends here, who are keeping themselves quiet this time!
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    Re: Leica M9 Killer and why?

    I don't care about the M10 in the best possible way for Leica AG. My M9 and my M Monochrom work with the lenses I have. I know how to focus them and they work. I need only to improve my skills to match these tools before I ask for new, better and more powerful tools. So that's it for me.

    But, if the M10 will draw in many new Leica customers who will keep the company going I am happy, both for the new customers and for the company. Ultimately, I have a dedicated freezer full of film and there are other folk capable of maintaining my M5, M7 and MP (not to mention the other 35mm cameras and all the MF ones) so even if Leica screws up beyond recall I shall still be OK.

    Chris
    Worry not, in such a scenario the resultant images are for my benefit only and I promise not to spam the internet with them!
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