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Thread: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

  1. #51
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Hmmm . . . no M lens announcements? Weren't we expecting a 28mm Lux?

  2. #52
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by apocolibri View Post
    WOW. It's been five hours since Guy posted this and no one has mentioned that this new M can taKe R lenses with an adapter. So this is the R solution all of us R users have been waiting for. I'm guessing that the fact that this camera is called the M has cause all R users to give it a pass and not read the fine print.

    I'm speaking for myself as well here as I saw Guy's post when it first appeared, looked for an "R" connection and missed it. It's only because a friend in Australia sent me an email saying "I think this might be your solution, Lawrence" that I went back and read the specs more carefully.

    So it's $6950. Then, R users would need the R adapter and the viewfinder. I'm guessing 9K with both of these. My issue is that I also HATE EVF's, though my limited experience is with the Sony A77. I'll take an OVF any day... though the live view and focus magnification on the A77 is brilliant for stationary subjects.

    This sensor better be groundbreaking as I've been doing tests with the Sigma DP2M files and I'm seeing sharpness and IQ that compares favorably with medium format. Me needs to know if the new M has an AA filter and how much it will smear the image. I'm not in the least impressed with the new Cannon 1DX files due to the smearing at even low iso.

    Much as this "could" be the solution us R users have long been waiting for... the sensor and EVF are going to have to be significantly better than what already exists for me to sell my DMR some Leica glass to afford this hit.

    This is not a camera I'll consider until I've personally been able to download full res files and print very large.

    Lawrence

    The R adapter is quite interesting. I guess I wonder why now and not before . Anyway the other issue is some of them are old designs and how they will hold up, great on a 10 mpx fat pixel DMR but times have changed to a more demanding smaller micron sensor. My bet they will be fine but something to think about and now need to go find them in the deep corners of shops. LOL

    Geez just thinking of the 180 F2 just makes me silly thinking about it. I'm actually kind of thinking about it again. I will certainly wait till its all out and settled down but I always said I want to retire with a M in my hand. Now retire I mean commercial shooting and I'm working on that right now. I'm actually looking for a job. I want out of freelance commercial shooting but stay in the business.
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  3. #53
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Bob Wrote >>>"All I wanted was a tiny focus confirmation dot visible through the RF eyepiece."<<<

    Exactly!! That is what I had been hoping for since the original M8 was released. A small red dot showing focus confirmation inside the viewfinder was all that was needed as a simple effective means of indicating correct focus was achieved.

    Guy wrote>>>"I'm with Bob just a damn green dot to confirm focus would make me think more on it."<<<

    I'm sorry Guy, I was with you 100% of the way until you specified the focus confirmation dot in the viewfinder should be "green"! I've only seen red focus confirmation dots and to now change it to green is beyond what is acceptable in my opinion...LOL!! You're right though...something tells me a focus confirmation indicator would have been a good approach.

    Dave (D&A)

    LOL. It's funny I saw something in the specs I suggested a long time ago with Stephan Daniels in a bar and we talked about all this electronic stuff but the lit up frame lines was my idea. Now not sure it came from me exactly but it gave me a chuckle when I saw that in the press release. Leica is pretty good at listening to ideas sometimes. I miss my buddy over there Christian but love to review this damn thing for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  4. #54
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    One question witht he evf and a polarizer, are polarizer easy to work with the evf?

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by dseelig View Post
    One question witht he evf and a polarizer, are polarizer easy to work with the evf?
    That should be a no-brainer - EVF would show what the sensor sees, just like a TTL viewfinder.

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The R adapter is quite interesting. I guess I wonder why now and not before .
    Without a TTL viewfinder R lenses would have been very difficult to use. With the EVF you can see what you shoot instead of aiming wildly with that Apo-Telyt.

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Anyone is annoyed by the use of AA filter on the M sensor? I find it quite a deal breaker to be honest, but perhaps it is a weak one.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  8. #58
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by TLiu View Post
    This is 5mm thicker than the M-E/M9, also 100g heavier. Not sure how it feels handheld.
    Could the 5mm be the thumb grip?

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Used too high a shutter speed.
    Just looking at the video again, there appears to be a fair bit of jello-cam effect. Not sure if this is because they were using pre-production firmware but it's more likely due to some lag on the sensor readout. CMOSIS supposedly has some global shutter designs on their sensors but it's not clear whether they have incorporated the global shutter technology into the new M sensor.

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Anyone is annoyed by the use of AA filter on the M sensor? I find it quite a deal breaker to be honest, but perhaps it is a weak one.
    Where does it says it uses an AA filter?

  11. #61
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeWee View Post
    Where does it says it uses an AA filter?
    I don't know but the guys on FM alt forum all seem pretty sure about it
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Funny to see that they finally sourced gorilla glass and dropped this whole sapphire nonsense. Probably shaved a few hundred from the bottom line. Why they couldn't have done this from the get go with the M8 is beyond me.

    Otherwise looks interesting. I'll probably pick up a used one here on DPI in a year or so from now.

  13. #63
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Bart ...
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  14. #64
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    I already saw the link above. Maybe Thorsten can confirm?
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    So whats the focus assist button on the front do exactly? The make or break for me on this camera will be the high ISO performance in low light and the video quality. Had an M8 and was completely frustrated at the low light high ISO results. Uber noisy. My 5D Mark 2 puts out no noise on 4000 ISO (if not higher I'm sure but I never need to go higher) so that's my frame of reference. Mind you I haven't even shot an M9 so I don't even know how improved it is over the M8. Moving on - certainly video isn't necessary on an M but if it's a feature, I want it to be good. The grip has great extra use/accesories, seems a bit big though since I'm use to seeing the size of the bassplate. I'm curious if they are another brand will make a slimmer grip that doesn't have the bells and whistles.

  16. #66
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    So, just to be clear... Does the new M have an AA filter, or not?

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    No aa filter

  18. #68
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Is it mentioned anywhere in Leica's release?


    Quote Originally Posted by dseelig View Post
    No aa filter
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Over-all, very interesting Photokina for Leica ... IMO. They have been quite busy!

    The new M is most certainly food for thought if M is your weapon of choice. I found this video to be pretty convincing, including initial indications of IQ (which remains to be investigated further):

    John Dooley demonstrates The Leica M on Vimeo

    The Key aspect is that the more traditionalist M user like me can ignore many of the do-dads and add-ons, but they are there should interests change. Basically a new M choice with different performance characteristics than the M9.

    ISO 6400 is plenty for me, as long as the 3200 is good. I seriously doubt it will take three firmware updates to zero in the new M's IQ. I think Leica gained experience with the M8s and M9s and has a better grip on this. More importantly, M users have learned a lot, and quick sharing of techniques will shorten the learning curve to arrive at that M look. Not only is the company smarter, so are we.

    For those wishing to trim down gear choices, but still have an occasional need for a longer lens, the R option seems just the ticket. Even the great 75s, 90s and M135AA will become for more usable when needed.

    Those into video in any big way probably will dismiss the M except for some special lens applications ...like use of the Nocti or 21/1.4 (think Stanley Kubrick). So, something like the new Sony A99 is definitely the better choice compared to anything else other than a full blown video camera system. However, for the "gentleman" shooter, the ability to use both M and R glass will have its video attractions.

    Studio/location shooters have new options to incorporate the M camera into the work-flow ... the sync port in the new base grip speaks to that.

    Then there is the S:

    24mm, 30-90 zoom, Elpro for the S180mm, and a surprise 120 T/S for the S system ... evolutionary performance enhancements for the S Body, all in the right areas. Improves and diversifies the S kit. S lens emphasis at this launch with no M lenses being announced shows serious commitment to the S system. Kudo's to leica

    Odd to place any attention on the special "Lego Clown" edition X2. Reminds me of when Porsche made orange 911s with green interiors.

    over-all, Good Job Leica!

    -Marc
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  20. #70
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Even my first feeling about the "M" announcement was not so postive I think it will come down for me how the IQ/look compares to the CCD-M9 sensors I am used to.
    I would not need to extras like video, and I prefer to use OVF but I agree for certain applications the option EVF doesnt hurt. Even though I find the solution of the x-pro1 with hybrid viewfinder much more "elegant" (but then the Fuji is not a rangefinder)
    If I had allready R-glass -fine - but I still wonder how balanced the package feels.

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Nice video, very instructive, and the camera seems like a well executed piece of work. This Mr. Dooley can't really match the fake British accent of Kai Wong though
    So, I am not alone in thinking about that!

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Could the 5mm be the thumb grip?
    Hi Jono, you havenít got a review of the M or M-E up your sleeve after your travel to Greece?
    Thorkil
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Hmmm . . . no M lens announcements? Weren't we expecting a 28mm Lux?
    YES! Simple decision for Leica to delay introduction. Just catching up on the back log of M lens orders. Lots of new S lens demand (CS lenses) . Loss of some marketing buzz. (lost in the M & S introductions ). Looks like wait until next year.

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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    I like it
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  25. #75
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    on the EVF it really depends on how good the implementation is - it could be a godsend for Nocti, 90 chron and 135 AA users. EVF also provides an additional tool for working with some very good lenses with focus shift issues.

    I'm assuming resolution about the same as the MM (which I'm very happy to have and will be very happy to keep). I think at this point the MM out resolves a lot of older glass - the incremental resolution doesn't improve the image - it just shows up lens faults. This leaves me skeptical on the R lenses. A few may be fine but many won't. Of course there are other Leica M adapters available from third parties and the EVF opens up a world of specialized and interesting lenses (the Canon 24 TS comes to mind for example).

    But it really comes down to images quality and we won't really have a view of that until some trusted reviewers get their hands on finished cameras.

    All in all a very interesting evolution. The really good news is that this will help keep Leica in good financial shape for another product iteration.

    I'll probably be looking for a way to tape over the video button so I don't accidentally fill my cards with junk.
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by TLiu View Post
    This is 5mm thicker than the M-E/M9, also 100g heavier. Not sure how it feels handheld.
    The weight advantage is gone. And so is the small size with EVF and handgrip. What remains are the smaller lenses in comparison to FF DSLR solutions. So what is left as real differentiators to newer DSLR offerings? Mechanical RF focusing and the outstanding lenses.

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Are any of your guys married, or at least have a steady girlfriend? First you talk about everything you want in a body and when the company finally delivers that you complain about her hair color. Tough crowd.

    LOL
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  28. #78
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    BTW, it is called the M Type 240. Nice ring, don't you think?

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    BTW, it is called the M Type 240. Nice ring, don't you think?
    Nein nein nein! Sie heisst M Typ 240 (zweihundertundvierzig)
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Over all I like the new M. I would have preferred a built in EVF, but better actually to not get a hybrid finder and keep optical and electronic apart.

    For some older lenses with focus shift the LV is a great feature, especially thinking about my 1.0/Nocti, which is now suddenly getting useable again.

    WRT old R glass I am VERY sceptic, as most of these lenses are easily 20 year old designs and simply will not be up to this demanding 24MP sensor without AA filter.

    Will I get one? Still not sure yet, as there are other interesting solutions available meanwhile

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    WRT old R glass I am VERY sceptic, as most of these lenses are easily 20 year old designs and simply will not be up to this demanding 24MP sensor without AA filter.
    ???? The sensor pixel pitch is only about 83 lines/mm. I think your R lenses can keep up with that.
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  32. #82
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    ???? The sensor pixel pitch is only about 83 lines/mm. I think your R lenses can keep up with that.
    Maybe, but there are also other parameters like resolution ....

  33. #83
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Maybe, but there are also other parameters like resolution ....
    ???? Lines per mm is resolution. From what I understand, people are converting their R lenses to Nikon mount to use with the D800 and are very pleased with them.
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The R adapter is quite interesting. I guess I wonder why now and not before ...
    It's just an R to M mount adapter. Leica didn't offer it before (although others do) because there was no sensible way to properly focus an SLR lens on an M rangefinder camera. Now that they have an imaging system that provides the TTL focusing/framing tools, they offer the mount adapter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    ... Anyway the other issue is some of them are old designs and how they will hold up, great on a 10 mpx fat pixel DMR but times have changed to a more demanding smaller micron sensor. My bet they will be fine but something to think about and now need to go find them in the deep corners of shops. LOL ...
    I'm sure, just as with all adaptations of film era lenses to digital capture bodies, that some will work beautifully and some will be less desirable. People will pick and choose the ones which work the way they want ... nothing new in that.

    SLR lenses in general perform better on digital sensors than RF lenses, due to the basic design constraints of the SLR mirror and deeper lens mount registration, so I expect most will do reasonably well. I'm eager to see how well my favorite Nikkors do once I have the new M; they work very well on Olympus FourThirds, Panasonic Micro-FourThirds, and Ricoh GXR-M APS-C bodies so far. Pixel density of the 24x36 @ 24Mpixel format is a little bit lower than 16x24 @ 12Mpixel (36 mm^2 @ Mpixel vs 32 mm^2 @ Mpixel) and both the GXR-M and new M are without AA filter, so the geometry factors of the larger format are the most important influence.
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It's just an R to M mount adapter. Leica didn't offer it before (although others do) because there was no sensible way to properly focus an SLR lens on an M rangefinder camera. Now that they have an imaging system that provides the TTL focusing/framing tools, they offer the mount adapter.


    They did (made for Leicina). It is in Leica history books.

    Adapter 22228

  36. #86
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    They did (made for Leicina). It is in Leica history books.

    Adapter 22228
    That's neat ... hadn't seen that one before. Long time ago.. Leica's made about a bazillion little widgets over the course of their history. :-)

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Woah.

    Anyone else notice that the CMOSIS chaps also produce a 70 megapixel 35mm sensor? :O

    Love the M. Never considered myself to be a Leica guy, but I'll definitely be checking it out in Cologne.

  38. #88
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    As for the AA filter, it is not mentioned and not shown in the brochure. I forgot to ask directly but should be doing a video interview with Stefan Daniel tomorrow and will find out there.

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay. It is knd of cool. Big big question I have is how GOOD is that EVF as that is a huge key for me since I don't really like them. Live view I do like though
    The EVF is the exactly same unit that Olympus is using*(Olympus VF-2), and is cross compatible. Just has the Leica logo and model number on it. It's a state of the art EVF, very crisp and clean imaging.

    I bought and have been using the Olympus version with the X2 ... same piece. Very nice.

  40. #90
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Have to get to a store and try it. I really need to get this whole thing in my hands. I'll send Leica a note for press demo so I can do a review on it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  41. #91
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by overgaarcom View Post
    As for the AA filter, it is not mentioned and not shown in the brochure. I forgot to ask directly but should be doing a video interview with Stefan Daniel tomorrow and will find out there.
    That would be greatly appreciated! Looking forward to watching the interview!
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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    I'm very disappointed that the size has increased(again) vs. a film M or M9. My guess is this is due to the EVF which(being external) is a no go. I'd like to see a hybrid finder without an add on OR, better yet, a CMOS sensor M with the same ol' beautiful rangefinder we've enjoyed all these years. Just keep the size down. My M9 is a little chunky vs. the MP, and this new M - it's creeping up on the Digilux 2 brick in size.

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    They did (made for Leicina). It is in Leica history books.

    Adapter 22228
    I've had one of these for about 10 years - originally to mount a fisheye on my M6.

    Just a minor warning on this adapter :
    To mount 3 cam i.e. modern lenses, it is necessary to modify the adapter by filing a way about 1mm of the left edge of the R mount at 120degrees from the release lever.

    Recently I've been using it with a Apo Telyt 180/3.4 on the 2x crop OM-D with good results. IBIS really becomes essential when using magnified EVF focus.
    Using it on the GXR is a lot harder - no IBIS and poorer EVF.
    I hope the M10 edge peaking works as a better alternative.

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    [QUOTE=Guy Mancuso;451848]The R adapter is quite interesting.

    By chance (or technique) do you know if this adapter close the iris of lenses when you take the picture ?

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Maybe it will mean I can nearly afford a second hand M9-P!

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by rondeb View Post
    I'm very disappointed that the size has increased(again) vs. a film M or M9. My guess is this is due to the EVF which(being external) is a no go. I'd like to see a hybrid finder without an add on OR, better yet, a CMOS sensor M with the same ol' beautiful rangefinder we've enjoyed all these years. Just keep the size down. My M9 is a little chunky vs. the MP, and this new M - it's creeping up on the Digilux 2 brick in size.
    Hi There
    As I understand it (and on the basis of other reports) the size of the body itself is so close to that of the M9 as to make no difference. The 5mm difference in width on the specs is due to the thumbgrip on the back - this isn't direct information from Leica, but I'm almost certain that this isn't a bigger camera (it looks like it IS slightly heavier though).

    Perhaps Thorsten could enlighten us on this matter as well?

    all the best
    Jono

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    [QUOTE=Biglou;452476]
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The R adapter is quite interesting.

    By chance (or technique) do you know if this adapter close the iris of lenses when you take the picture ?
    Hi There
    No (at least, I imagine not). Why should it? you set your aperture and focus at the correct aperture just like any mirrorless camera with a 3rd party lens. Stop down metering is then a thing of the past. The EVF will gain up to the brightness you have set whatever the actual Exposure value.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Hi Jono,
    Set the distance with closed aperture is not so easy if you do macro, for instance, or even portraits.
    All the best

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Biglou View Post
    Hi Jono,
    Set the distance with closed aperture is not so easy if you do macro, for instance, or even portraits.
    All the best
    In the contrary, I have been shooting all kinds of portraits and landscapes stopped down to f/8 on my GXR-M with LV, peaking, and 8x magnification when needed, without any problems. It is in fact very easy.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: THE NEW LEICA M Press Release

    What a gorgeous modern camera as seen in the video. I just wish I could imagine that the FF Sony Nex won't just make so much more sense when it comes out (as it must).
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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