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EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

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slrmagic

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Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

As the company has replied, and we have their attention, I will repeat this statement: SLRMagic is a new company, introducing a high-end lens to compete with Leica. When Nikon did this in the 1940s, their camera -the Nikon I- and lenses were submitted to nationally recognized camera technician's for a "strip-down" report. Marty Forscher did the report, the rest is history.
Firstly, we have been introducing high end lenses since 2 years ago before the 50mm T0.95 was introduced. As we are known for making Cinema lenses as well as Toy Lenses for 3 years now but for some reasons Leica users thought this was our first high end lens.

We have repeat many times the lens is for cinema use originally. Spacecam contacted Leica for their Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 lens for use for cinematography. The M-mount is made but the Noctilux-M is scarce with a long waiting list so we were contacted if such a lens can be made. Our HyperPrime 50mm T0.95 lens is a CINE lens. What a CINE lens means is that it has no lens breathing, is calibrated to T stops, and has a clickless aperture with round aperture shape for smooth bokeh.

It is common that our lens performance is often compared with the 50mm f/1.4 Summilux ASPH. That is a very high performing photographic lens but it was not designed for cinematography. If you try to align the edge of the frame to the door with minimum focus for example, then try to focus all the way to infinity and back again, you will notice the position of the edge of the door drifts away due to change in size of the image. This is distracting for cinematographers and not good for filming. This is the lens breathing control that the HyperPrime is very good at that is hardly ever mentioned about. There is too much concentration on on details that users are annoyed about and no constructive discussion on lens performance on many forums.

Hopefully when the new Leica M is out there will be comments on the cinema performance with the HyperPrime 50mm T0.95 lens.
 

Brian S

New member
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

The RF coupled version of the lens has had reported problems, I have never seen a problem reported on the Cine lens. I believe this is the company's first RF coupled lens. Nikon was around for a long time before Marty Forscher examined the Nikon I. It was a good move on Nikon's part.

The main issue with the SLRMagic lens has been the build quality and build practices. More than one reviewer has noted problems with machining. In the review of the external link it is noted that the lens makes a grinding noise as it is focused. This usually means filings in the helical or the helical is not cut smoothly. More than one has noted Loc-tite being used to hold key components together, rather than just being used to secure Set screws.

These are my main concerns with the RF coupled lens, especially one this long and this heavy. I would like to see the company address the question of mediocre build quality of the mechanical portions of the lens. To me, this is the hard part of a lens. Building a high-quality focus mount that maintains accurate RF coupling across the entire range, hold it to a reasonable cost, uniformity per copy, and have a reasonable service life.
 
S

slrmagic

Guest
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

Nikon was around for a long time before Marty Forscher examined the Nikon I. It was a good move on Nikon's part.[/QUOTE said:
I cannot find the report by Marty Forscher but I did find on google that he slammed a Nikon F onto the counter and the camera is still clicking. In fact, I was with a group out shooting and the lens was dropped from chest height with the weight of the camera and landed on concrete floor with a front end impact. The lens too a huge dent and a scratch and the lens continued to work for the rest of the workshop. We did not give the person who dropped it accidentally a hard time at all. The pull out lens hood did not bend over at all. No one mentioned it was a good move on SLR Magic's part.

Here is a link to that mention Day 1 Workshop Report: Night shooting with the Hyperprime 50 T0.95 | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

It would be interesting if someone did a drop test of fast lenses of other brands and have a review on that. People do that for cell phones to see when the screen will crack so it is not a stupid idea. Our lens that fell is still on display in our shop in Hong Kong for demo use on a camera and there is no durability issue. I think this is a better for build quality.

More than one has noted Loc-tite being used to hold key components together said:
You must know about our lens more than we do. Can you please give us a URL reference which review website has noted Loctite was used to hold key components together. I have attached two photos. It seems to us key components being referred to are considered "key" as long as it is not SLR Magic brand. I have attached a photo of the Leica Summicron-M 90mm f2 with gray unidentified compound holding the lens element to the metal barrel. I have also attached a photo of the Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 with threadlock compound holding the focus cam. Are these considered "key" components as well? Use of adhesive compound to make lenses and to secure parts together had been a common practice that is rarely discussed about on forums. A regular user does not buy a lens then take it apart to discuss about the mechanical design.
 

StephenPatterson

New member
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

Stephen, I am not sure where you got that information they do not do this since 1930 but on June 29th 2012 this is what the technician told me by email. I will leave the technicians name out so it is not personal but if you call Leica in Solms they will have the same answer for you. I was inquiring about the 35/2 that came with the M9 as a kit set as well as Noctilux that is still under adjustment process in Solms.

"For a 100% guarantee the camera and the lens have to be sent together with the camera with the explicit order to adjust them together."

Kind rgds.,
Andrew
Andrew, I believe you are misunderstanding what it is that Leica does. Since 1930 with the introduction of the Leica I Model C they have not adjusted lenses and bodies together, but instead calibrate each separately to the engineering specification. By having the camera body and the lens Leica can diagnose exactly where the problem is, either in the lens, body or both. This is the reason why a properly calibrated Noctilux will work on any properly calibrated M camera.

Not long ago Jaapv and I discussed this topic on LUF, and you might find the information interesting.

Lens calibration - Leica User Forum
 

StephenPatterson

New member
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

Can you please give us a URL reference which review website has noted Loctite was used to hold key components together.
Andrew, in all likelihood I am the source of this information. As you will recall we were shooting together when my Hyperprime aperture ring failed, spinning round and round, and you told me it was held on with thread locking compound. You commented that it was necessary to use thread locking compound to assemble the Hyperprime so that it could be disassembled without destroying the lens. You also noted that the exact amount of thread locking compound needed was still being worked out.

Is that not correct, and if not could you please clarify?

Thanks,
 
S

slrmagic

Guest
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

Stephen I think this is where the misunderstanding began and rumours started to spread that only glue was used and there are no screws. If you look at the post above if what it looks like in the Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 lens, there is a lot of threadlock compound used. At the time we did need to work out how much should be used during the volunteer program of pre-production lenses that you participated in. We used much less than the Zeiss lens at the time.

You commented that it was necessary to use thread locking compound to assemble the Hyperprime so that it could be disassembled without destroying the lens. You also noted that the exact amount of thread locking compound needed was still being worked out.

Is that not correct, and if not could you please clarify?

Thanks,
 

Double Negative

Not Available
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

So I'm confused - there are screws holding things together then?
 
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slrmagic

Guest
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

So I'm confused - there are screws holding things together then?
Obviously there are screws holding things together. We are not able to make such a lens without the use of screws. The rumours that suggested the lens has no screws is not true.
 

Brian S

New member
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

I don't care about what other manufacturers do or don't do, the question is about the SLRMagic lens.

Based on the users issues with the lens in the thread that is linked to in post number 1, I would like to know more about the "feels like sand-paper" comment. In my experience, this occurs when there are "burrs" in the metalwork, or filings in the helical.

The report done by Marty Forscher was over 60 years ago. I've read segments of the reports in books and magazines years ago. Suffice it to say that Nikon's reputation was made based on that report.
 
S

slrmagic

Guest
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

I don't care about what other manufacturers do or don't do, the question is about the SLRMagic lens.

Based on the users issues with the lens in the thread that is linked to in post number 1, I would like to know more about the "feels like sand-paper" comment. In my experience, this occurs when there are "burrs" in the metalwork, or filings in the helical.
I don't think there are any fillings in the helical. Have you ever questioned why the CINE version of this lens was made the same way but non of the users are complaining about this issue? Further, if the user feels their lens feels like sand-paper they can ship it back for checkup as there is 3 yrs warranty for the LM lens. The same person said he has issues with his filter but when we told him to ship it for replacement he said he does not want a replacement and want us to just send him a new one. That is not possible for us and I am sure most companies require the first time to be sent back before a replacement is sent. The person complained about an issue and to keep it not personal I will not mention the brand or issue. However, the user was showed a 100 year long history manufacturer has a filter with the same issues. I also have not heard of any UV/IR filter that does not decrease in performance compared to a lens that does not use any filter at all.
 
S

slrmagic

Guest
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

I don't care about what other manufacturers do or don't do, the question is about the SLRMagic lens.
It is clear that the issue you have is with SLR Magic only and we are getting a biased view from you. As ZDP-189 mention at Leica Rumors it is to a point where it is on the borderline of "Sinophobic racism". It does not matter when Leica from Germany or Zeiss from Japan make their lenses the same way as SLR Magic from Hong Kong/China because the only issue you and some others have is SLR Magic only. The issue all along is SLR Magic making a lens that can mount onto the Leica camera. "Unfounded negative comments are contrary to the spirit of innovation" and I agree with that. There is a loyal customer base of Leica users that does not want more options in the market. That was how the rumors and brand bashing started.

Read more on LeicaRumors.com:

SLR Magic HyperPrime 50mm f/0.95 M-mount lens prototype listed on eBay | Leica News & Rumors
 

Brian S

New member
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

I believe you should invite the OP of the DPREVIEW thread to send the lens back for repair or replacement. Do it publicly for all to read. I also believe it would serve the company to open up more about technical details about the lens, such as the optical block diagram. The latter is published information from most manufacturers. the "optical Prescription" of the lens, the manufacturing details containing specific surface curvature and index of refraction- companies place those details into the patent application for the lens. Placing the lens into the hands of a well-down repair technician would also serve to solidify the reputation of a brand-new company launching a major product.

My hobby is taking apart lenses for rangefinder cameras, I've probably taken apart a few hundred- and put them back together again. It's fun, you learn a few things, and you learn some limits. Reading the problems reported on this lens, I suspect the tolerances need to be tighter on the focus mount. This is an issue with RF coupled lenses, not as much for SLR lenses. I believe the most likely explanation is The lens is too heavy and too long for the current mount. This would explain why a Cine lens works well, and RF users are having problems. These are the issues that need to be addressed.
 

Brian S

New member
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

It is clear that the issue you have is with SLR Magic only and we are getting a biased view from you. As ZDP-189 mention at Leica Rumors it is to a point where it is on the borderline of "Sinophobic racism". It does not matter when Leica from Germany or Zeiss from Japan make their lenses the same way as SLR Magic from Hong Kong/China because the only issue you and some others have is SLR Magic only. The issue all along is SLR Magic making a lens that can mount onto the Leica camera. "Unfounded negative comments are contrary to the spirit of innovation" and I agree with that. There is a loyal customer base of Leica users that does not want more options in the market. That was how the rumors and brand bashing started.

Read more on LeicaRumors.com:

SLR Magic HyperPrime 50mm f/0.95 M-mount lens prototype listed on eBay | Leica News & Rumors
This is utter nonsense, and it is impossible to have a technical discussion about this lens with someone that resorts to shouts of bigotry every time someone asks to provide real answers.

As far as lenses: My Leica M9 has a Jupiter-3 sitting on it. Not German, Not Japanese, but Russian made.


1950 KMZ J-3 by anachronist1, on Flickr

No glue holding the elements in place.
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Re: EXTERNAL LINK: Owner Review of SLRMagic 50/0.95 posted in dpreview "Leica Talk"

:deadhorse:

I think this topic has gone far enough

thanks
-bob
 
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