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Thread: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    It's a couple of decades since I used an M (M3 and M4), but I feel the urge returning, though it's time to go digital. But...should I go for an M9 or wait for the M typ 240? I've used live view (on an Olympus, and with the finder) and I'm not greatly impressed. The major difference between the two, for me, is the sensor. I realise that there's not much info about the M typ 240's sensor 9abilities), but is it likely to be so much better that I should wait for it? Your thoughts gratefully received.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Besides the sensor, there are a couple of other perks in my opinion. I really loved the look of the M9 Titanium's LED projected framelines. The new M also has these.

    Faster image processing, better battery life and some weather-proofing are big bonuses too.

    The other thing to consider though is the M-E. A new M9 at a much better price. So you'd save money compared to buying the M9 now and the warranty on a new one will be better than buying used IMO.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Robert, Wait for the new M with liveview.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    I thinkyou should buy my m9 LOL at a used price. LOL whynot rent for a weened and try an m9 see if it is for you. Live view for me emans nothing I want the new boday for 6400 iso and for the viewfinder when using my 75 or 90 or the 16-21 David
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    It's a couple of decades since I used an M (M3 and M4), but I feel the urge returning, though it's time to go digital. But...should I go for an M9 or wait for the M typ 240? I've used live view (on an Olympus, and with the finder) and I'm not greatly impressed. The major difference between the two, for me, is the sensor. I realise that there's not much info about the M typ 240's sensor 9abilities), but is it likely to be so much better that I should wait for it? Your thoughts gratefully received.
    The new M is still fundamentally a rangefinder camera like all Ms have been. The addition of Live View via LCD or EVF, and video capture, extends its capabilities ... for motion work, for macro, and for long or very wide lenses. That's how I see it.

    Otherwise, from reading the many reviews and articles on it, the new M's other improvements address most if not all of the issues that people have raised about the M9. Improved responsiveness, faster transfer to media and display in review, improved frameline illumination, (expected) gains in higher sensitivity performance, better battery life, weathersealing, et al ... if these things are important to you and you're not in a rush, I'd put a pre-order in and wait for the new one.

    Otherwise the M9 or M-E will do fine. I am still just beginning to push the M9 seriously and find it a very fine camera in every respect. I'll eventually want a new M ... either in addition or alongside ... but I see no reason whatever to rush as my M9 is barely nine months old at this point.
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    I was planning to get the typ 240, but my local dealer gave me a very good offer on a new M9, 5700$, which is lower than what the M-E will sell for in my part of the world, so I jumped on the occasion.

    Like Godfrey, eventually I will get a typ 240, but for now I am very happy with the M9, as none of its quirks really bother me. YMMV.
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    This one is a little tough, as we don't know yet if Leica has been able to make their new CMOS sensor "sing" with all those legacy lenses, but for argument's sake let's assume that the new M240's IQ is at least equal to the M9 (although I am hopeful it will be superior). There are obviously advantages in higher ISO, live-view, focus peaking, video (if desired), weather proofing, faster processor, larger buffer, better LCD...but I believe the major advantage is the EVF. I realize that you have indicated that an EVF is not a factor in your buying decision, but I believe it will be a major benefit of the M. The ability to have focus peaking, zoom to focus, diopter correction (without the need for $100 screw in magnifiers, and use wide and telephoto lenses without optical finders is a major benefit. Also there are many people with less than perfect eyesight (like me), and using a rangefinder becomes more and more difficult with age. For those reasons I like the new M.

    The big unknown as of today is how the CMOS files are going to look compared to the CCD. I expect Leica to answer that question very soon. If the IQ is superior it's a pretty easy decision for me. If the CMOS files however don't have that "Leica look" that I'm used to then I will just keep my M9 and live with no EVF, lower ISO, slower buffer, etc.

    A few more months should answer the question, however there is no guarantee that the M240 will be available anytime soon. Mid-2013 is not unrealistic. If you don't want to wait that long then a new M9, M9-P (while supplies last) or M-E is your best option (because of the warranty).

    Stephen

    PS I expect M8 and M9 prices to continue to fall next year, as owners trade in and sell their cameras to purchase the new M. The M8 is especially susceptible to further price drops after Leica announced they will no longer be able to repair defective LCD screens.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Hi There Robert
    I hope you're well - long time no speak

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    It's a couple of decades since I used an M (M3 and M4), but I feel the urge returning, though it's time to go digital. But...should I go for an M9 or wait for the M typ 240? I've used live view (on an Olympus, and with the finder) and I'm not greatly impressed. The major difference between the two, for me, is the sensor. I realise that there's not much info about the M typ 240's sensor 9abilities), but is it likely to be so much better that I should wait for it? Your thoughts gratefully received.
    Godfrey has put it very well I think - I doubt whether the sensor is going to give you a huge advantage (except at high ISO), but there are other benefits.

    On the other hand, I think that the launch excitement has meant that stocks of M9p cameras are being sold at really good prices - I rather think that they might even go up again later on. Maybe the answer is to get an M9p now, and then think of changing over when the M arrives (I guess that's a financial decision).

    I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun though - nothing like shooting with an M camera.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Agreed, Jono. We don't yet know what the 240's output is going to be like (although I'm sure it will be excellent,) and the camera isn't going to be available for a long time.

    After three years of waffling, I finally made the decision to buy an M camera, and I bought the M9 slightly used for a steal. I don't really need any of the hot new features of the 240, outside of maybe the weather sealing and better high ISO. Plus, I'm not in love with the LCD illuminated frame line concept, at least not yet.

    At this point, I'm betting that choosing between the M9 and 240 IQ will be akin to choosing the film that you prefer. I'm not really that much of a high ISO shooter, so I'm fine with the M9 (it's similar to my old A900 at high ISO,) and it may very well be a little better at lower ISOs than the 240. Tough to say.

    When everyone was shooting film, many of us tended to stick to the same film, rather than buying whatever the newest thing on the market was, and I'm starting to feel that way a little bit with digital sensors, now that they're all pretty good these days...but, if the 240 shows something special, I'll consider trading up for it.

    All of that being said, if you need video and live view features, the 240 seems a no-brainer.
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Regarding the LED illuminated framelines, Douglas makes a good point. Even though the concept isn't new, it has been implemented in the Titanium, I have not read any opinions about it, probably because the guys who bought the Titanium keep it wrapped in cellophane in a safety box in some Swiss bank

    However, I can't think of any negative aspect about it. It's just that LED lamps are replacing the external light. This said I have never had any difficulties viewing the frame lines even in the dimmest lighting with the M9, M6 and Zeiss Ikon cameras. I only fear that the LED might be too glaringly bright in dark environments and affect the viewing and focusing of the subject, despite the typ 240 being equipped with a light sensor and changes the illumination brightness automatically.
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Regarding the LED illuminated framelines, Douglas makes a good point. Even though the concept isn't new, it has been implemented in the Titanium, I have not read any opinions about it, probably because the guys who bought the Titanium keep it wrapped in cellophane in a safety box in some Swiss bank

    However, I can't think of any negative aspect about it. It's just that LED lamps are replacing the external light. This said I have never had any difficulties viewing the frame lines even in the dimmest lighting with the M9, M6 and Zeiss Ikon cameras. I only fear that the LED might be too glaringly bright in dark environments and affect the viewing and focusing of the subject, despite the typ 240 being equipped with a light sensor and changes the illumination brightness automatically.
    Yeah, from what I understand, you can make the lines either red (like the Titanium) or white, which is pretty cool. Still, having shot the X100 for a while, I prefer the more subtle viewfinder lines of the M9, myself, so it'll be interesting to see just how bright the 240 lines are.

    A disadvantage is that the camera has to be powered on to see the lines in the viewfinder, which may or may not affect some users.

    I'll just have to see what the LCD lines are like and decide myself.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Douglas, they are not LCD lines. They are good old Leica M frame lines but illuminated by LED lamps. That's at least what David Farkas believes, I haven't handled the camera myself, obviously

    Leica M9 Titanium technical data:

    http://us.leica-camera.com/assets/fi...=file_5076.pdf
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Thanks all for the comments.

    I much preferred the OVF of the M3 to the M4 because of the greater magnification (.9 vs .7), so I'd find the OVF of either the M9 or the 240 uncomfortable. Which rather implies that the 240 with the EVF would be a better choice for me, despite my aversion to EVFs.

    I'm in no hurry; I think I'll wait to see what people think of the 240 before jumping in.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    You're correct, I miss-typed that. I meant LED (illuminating the frame lines.) I guess that if there is some way to adjust brightness, I'd be fine with that, although I have caught myself looking through the M9 viewfinder with the camera turned off, in order to frame and visualize, so I may miss that ability to do this with the camera powered off in the 240. Probably no biggie, though.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Thanks all for the comments.

    I much preferred the OVF of the M3 to the M4 because of the greater magnification (.9 vs .7), so I'd find the OVF of either the M9 or the 240 uncomfortable. Which rather implies that the 240 with the EVF would be a better choice for me, despite my aversion to EVFs.

    I'm in no hurry; I think I'll wait to see what people think of the 240 before jumping in.

    Have you tried a magnifier on the M9? I've been using the 1.25x, and I like it. It bumps the magnification to .85.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    You're correct, I miss-typed that. I meant LED (illuminating the frame lines.) I guess that if there is some way to adjust brightness, I'd be fine with that, although I have caught myself looking through the M9 viewfinder with the camera turned off, in order to frame and visualize, so I may miss that ability to do this with the camera powered off in the 240. Probably no biggie, though.
    I might find this a plus. Can't tell you how many times I've picked up the M9, focused framed, and ... pffft! forgot to turn on the camera. The lack of framelines would be an immediate indication that I still have to turn on the power.

    The lack of LEDs at the bottom of the M9 finder is another, but then I'm pretty used to the M4-2 which doesn't have them... On that camera, I forget to wind the film to the next frame.

    Nothing is foolproof ... ]'-)

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I might find this a plus. Can't tell you how many times I've picked up the M9, focused framed, and ... pffft! forgot to turn on the camera. The lack of framelines would be an immediate indication that I still have to turn on the power.
    Good point, but it still won't tell ya if your lens cap is on!
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Good point, but it still won't tell ya if your lens cap is on!
    Yup. Done that one too. *-P
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Have you tried a magnifier on the M9? I've been using the 1.25x, and I like it. It bumps the magnification to .85.
    Douglas, what's the widest frame you can still see comfortably with the magnifier attached? Can you still see the shutter speed digits? Thanks!
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Yup. Done that one too. *-P
    I have tried many times to take a photo when the camera is off, but not yet with the cap on

    Still waiting for that to happen though
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Douglas, what's the widest frame you can still see comfortably with the magnifier attached? Can you still see the shutter speed digits? Thanks!
    From what I can tell, it pretty much moves all of the lines up one focal length. In other words, the 50mm lines with the 1.25x look like the 35mm lines without the magnifier, the 35mm lines with the 1.25x look like the 28mm lines without the magnifier, etc. I haven't done the math, so I don't know if that is exact, but that is what it seems to me. You can technically still see the lines for the 28mm with the magnifier attached, but the lines are WAY outside, right at the edges of the frame, and you have to move your eye around to see them. Using the 28 with the magnifier essentially makes the entire rangefinder area your frame.

    I'm sure it depends on your eye, and I don't wear glasses, but I can still see the shutter speed digits ok, although they are closer to the bottom.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    I have tried many times to take a photo when the camera is off, but not yet with the cap on

    Still waiting for that to happen though
    I've just been taking Thorsten Overgaard's advice (if I remember correctly) and just leave the camera on all of the time with a 2 minute sleep time.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Thanks Doug! My widest lens not needing an external finder is 35mm, so it might be a good idea to put a 1.25x magnifier permanently on the eyepiece. Not that I'm having any problems with focusing, but it certainly would make it easier/faster.
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I've just been taking Thorsten Overgaard's advice (if I remember correctly) and just leave the camera on all of the time with a 2 minute sleep time.
    Thorsten also keeps the camera in his bag without a lens cap - so he won't make that mistake either - altogether, it might be why he takes such fine photos!

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Agreed, Jono. We don't yet know what the 240's output is going to be like (although I'm sure it will be excellent,) and the camera isn't going to be available for a long time.

    After three years of waffling, I finally made the decision to buy an M camera, and I bought the M9 slightly used for a steal. I don't really need any of the hot new features of the 240, outside of maybe the weather sealing and better high ISO. Plus, I'm not in love with the LCD illuminated frame line concept, at least not yet.
    Hey!
    Congratulations - join the club - well done - fantastic!
    I hope you're really happy together. As you know, I fiddle about with lots of other things, but I always return to my Leica.

    Excellent news!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Thanks Doug! My widest lens not needing an external finder is 35mm, so it might be a good idea to put a 1.25x magnifier permanently on the eyepiece. Not that I'm having any problems with focusing, but it certainly would make it easier/faster.
    The 35mm frame lines are pretty large with the magnifier, but you may be able to manage ok. The magnifier is pretty easy to take on and off, and has a cool little tether and case, so you could switch back and forth pretty easily, if you don't like it with the 35mm.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hey!
    Congratulations - join the club - well done - fantastic!
    I hope you're really happy together. As you know, I fiddle about with lots of other things, but I always return to my Leica.

    Excellent news!
    Thanks, Jono! It's that fiddling that I'm trying to get over. I happily shot the A900 for years, but, when I decided to try smaller cameras, I've been on a merry-go-round of little cameras and lenses. I'm excited to get rid of it all. I think I even mentioned to you 3 years ago that I was considering selling all of my gear for the M9, but I chickened out, and, not only could I have been shooting the M9 for 3 years at this point, but it also likely cost me more in the long run. Lesson learned!

    Right now, I'm shooting a 28 Elmarit ASPH, 50 Summicron and 90 Tele-elmarit, but, if I find that I'm simply shooting the 50 all of the time, which is a real possibility, I may just trade it all for the 50 Summilux. We'll see. I also have a 50/1.5 Nokton, so that may be a suitable alternative if it means I keep the other lenses.

    I sure do like the camera, so far.
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Have you tried a magnifier on the M9? I've been using the 1.25x, and I like it. It bumps the magnification to .85.
    I wondered about that -- from what the others say, it sounds like a good solution.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    I have tried the 1.25X and upgraded to 1.4X. To me, 1.25X didn't make that much of a difference so I rather just not hassle with it. Now 1.4X is limited to longer FL, but when I put it on, it's wonderful and much needed for longer lenses.
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosermage View Post
    I have tried the 1.25X and upgraded to 1.4X. To me, 1.25X didn't make that much of a difference so I rather just not hassle with it. Now 1.4X is limited to longer FL, but when I put it on, it's wonderful and much needed for longer lenses.
    Yeah, it probably would bother me to take the 1.25x on and off all of the time, too. I can use it with all of my lenses, so I just leave it on, so it's no biggie.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Thorsten also keeps the camera in his bag without a lens cap - so he won't make that mistake either - altogether, it might be why he takes such fine photos!
    Recently, I've started to use B+W protection filters on all of my lenses AS my lens caps. That way, I can take them off when I'm not in a hurry and I want to cut down on reflections, or I can just leave them on in a hurry and still shoot without much penalty.

    I've never been a fan of protection filters in the past, but when I realized I could ditch lens caps altogether, this turned into a reasonable compromise for me.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Recently, I've started to use B+W protection filters on all of my lenses AS my lens caps. That way, I can take them off when I'm not in a hurry and I want to cut down on reflections, or I can just leave them on in a hurry and still shoot without much penalty.

    I've never been a fan of protection filters in the past, but when I realized I could ditch lens caps altogether, this turned into a reasonable compromise for me.
    It would be interesting to do a comparison to see what's missed. Is it resolution? DR? ISO
    I bet it is hard to see, except maybe in blow ups. I used B+W filkters on all my Contax gear yet went 'naked' with the Leica based on just the folklore of "better IQ" without.

    Hacing missed some neat shots in Paris last month, (I like the sort of PJ type of shots) I would filter the lenses if the give upwere small.

    If you have a chance maybe take a fdew shots and post a cropped comparison. I may invest in a filter or two myself anyway, for travel (I 'walk around' with the 28mm 2.8, small and easy to focus...but the hood catches on my small bag, and the lens is pretty close up front!

    Let us all know

    regards
    Victor

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hey!
    Congratulations - join the club - well done - fantastic!
    I hope you're really happy together. As you know, I fiddle about with lots of other things, but I always return to my Leica.

    Excellent news!
    Right on. Why wait, and lose 6-9 months (if you are close to the big 70, like me, months count! )

    Anyway I had the M8 now M9 and I could not believe a 2x6 foot print I did with 7 vertical shots of the Villandry gardens; you can count the pebbles in the walkways! Some of the best megapixels around, even if only 18.

    Regards
    Victor
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    It would be interesting to do a comparison to see what's missed. Is it resolution? DR? ISO
    I bet it is hard to see, except maybe in blow ups. I used B+W filkters on all my Contax gear yet went 'naked' with the Leica based on just the folklore of "better IQ" without.

    Hacing missed some neat shots in Paris last month, (I like the sort of PJ type of shots) I would filter the lenses if the give upwere small.

    If you have a chance maybe take a fdew shots and post a cropped comparison. I may invest in a filter or two myself anyway, for travel (I 'walk around' with the 28mm 2.8, small and easy to focus...but the hood catches on my small bag, and the lens is pretty close up front!

    Let us all know

    regards
    Victor
    I've done experiments in the past, and a large majority of the time, I can't see a difference between no filter and a high end, multicoated filter. The only time I notice a difference is at night with bright light sources, because they sometimes, not always, will add little flare blobs. I usually just leave my filters on, these days. Either way, filters are probably a topic for another thread. Here is a link to some tests: UV filters test - Introduction - Lenstip.com
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Yeah, it probably would bother me to take the 1.25x on and off all of the time, too. I can use it with all of my lenses, so I just leave it on, so it's no biggie.
    This is something I have to consider too. I dont want to clutter the camera with additional stuff hanging from it. I like to keep it simple

    But the idea is very appealing, I have to think it over...
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    This is something I have to consider too. I dont want to clutter the camera with additional stuff hanging from it. I like to keep it simple

    But the idea is very appealing, I have to think it over...
    You know, I may need to eat some crow. Since our discussion earlier, I've been taking my 1.25x mag off and on, and I'm not sure that the magnification is worth bothering with, because the viewfinder is more comfortable to my eye without the magnifier attached. So it's a bit of a pick your poison kinda thing, at least for me. I like the extra magnification, but my eye just doesn't rest as nicely on the camera.

    If you try it, I'd buy used, so that you can sell the magnifier for the same amount if you don't like the it.
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Thank you Douglas. That makes sense. I think I will postpone this decision for a while. My focusing accuracy has been excellent with the M9 so far, so this piece is not an urgent purchase.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I've done experiments in the past, and a large majority of the time, I can't see a difference between no filter and a high end, multicoated filter. The only time I notice a difference is at night with bright light sources, because they sometimes, not always, will add little flare blobs. I usually just leave my filters on, these days. Either way, filters are probably a topic for another thread. Here is a link to some tests: UV filters test - Introduction - Lenstip.com
    wow, thanks!
    that's what is great about the people here on the forum...sharing

    I'll take a look

    thx again

    Victor

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    On the subject of filters, does anyone know where I can find 46mm BW. Clear nano filters in stock? The hood cap on my 35lux certainly looks like a good idea in theory,but in practical use,its disastrously inefficient.

    To not drift this discussion any further off, I will say that when my m9 dies after hopefully joyful use over many years,I will probably buy the M in its then current iteration,as long as leica wont do something silly,like removing the rangefinder,and the new camera is called an "E".. :-)

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Most Leica lenses filter UV better than the UV filters. Even the 50s Summicrons do not pass any UV.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    The M9 (nay, M-E) is a proven rock star. Well, to ME it is anyway... The M? Not yet. Lots of unknowns and you won't see one short of March at the earliest.

    Get a used M9 or a new M-E and start shooting today. Let others be the guinea pigs first.
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    As for the filters
    . . . I've only once scratched the front element of a lens - and it was only a cheap lens anyway. If I costed buying a quality filter for each of my lenses, then, over the years, it would buy a new 50 'lux.
    So - for me, I keep my cameras and lenses reasonably carefully, but I don't put filters on the front of them!

    . . . with respect to magnifiers, Like Douglas - I've tried them (and dioptres) the reduction in viewfinder brightness always seems to have more of a negative effect than the intended positive.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    The M9 (nay, M-E) is a proven rock star. Well, to ME it is anyway... The M? Not yet. Lots of unknowns and you won't see one short of March at the earliest.

    Get a used M9 or a new M-E and start shooting today. Let others be the guinea pigs first.
    Quite right . . . . although I'd be tempted to get hold of a 'cheap' M9p - there are some around, and I reckon they'll hold their value quite a lot better than the M-E (apart from looking nicer, and having a frameline lever!).

    all the best

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    As for the filters
    . . . I've only once scratched the front element of a lens - and it was only a cheap lens anyway. If I costed buying a quality filter for each of my lenses, then, over the years, it would buy a new 50 'lux.
    So - for me, I keep my cameras and lenses reasonably carefully, but I don't put filters on the front of them!

    . . . with respect to magnifiers, Like Douglas - I've tried them (and dioptres) the reduction in viewfinder brightness always seems to have more of a negative effect than the intended positive.
    +1

    I fit filters when I need to, whether for specific protection or filtering light. Specific protection could be, like, "I keep losing the damn lens cap on my Rollei 35S and they cost $25 apiece ... I'll stick a filter on it and leave it there!" ;-)

    I've had magnifiers many times. I find I only ever use them when I have to, because they always make it harder to align my glasses and the viewfinder so I can see well enough to focus and frame properly. The 1.4x might be useful with my 90 and 135mm lenses on the M9 due to its .68x magnification ... as long as I can see well enough through the silly thing.

    I can't tell without trying one... and I'd have to buy one to do that, another $300 expense. I have the 90mm on the M9 at present, so I'll see how well I hit the right focus wide open without it first. The size of the framelines doesn't seem to be a problem for me. :-)

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    I tried magnifiers, but the problem is - with astigmatism, all you're doing is magnifying the blur as well. It helps, but it's not a total solution. For me it came down to wearing glasses (or contacts) when shooting - or the Walter RX Eyepiece. I prefer the latter, since I wear my glasses as little as possible and only for reading. No "tunnel vision" or loss of brightness either, which is key.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Quite right . . . . although I'd be tempted to get hold of a 'cheap' M9p - there are some around, and I reckon they'll hold their value quite a lot better than the M-E (apart from looking nicer, and having a frameline lever!).
    Indeed. I think the M9 and M9-P will hold their own! The M-E just doesn't do it for me on a couple of levels...

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    As for the filters
    . . . I've only once scratched the front element of a lens - and it was only a cheap lens anyway. If I costed buying a quality filter for each of my lenses, then, over the years, it would buy a new 50 'lux.
    So - for me, I keep my cameras and lenses reasonably carefully, but I don't put filters on the front of them!

    . . . with respect to magnifiers, Like Douglas - I've tried them (and dioptres) the reduction in viewfinder brightness always seems to have more of a negative effect than the intended positive.
    I've generally avoided filters, too, but I've been enjoying using the filters themselves as screw on lens caps.

    The magnifier view itself seems good to me, at least with the 1.25x. I've read that the 1.4x is worse in regards to brightness and what not. The 1.25x just doesn't feel as good on my eye socket, so I may stop using it. I had Lasik a couple of years ago, so my focusing is fine. I just like the larger 50mm frameline magnification.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Regarding UV/Protection filters, I am a filter person. I prefer to clean the disposable filter than the lens front element. Of course, if I was shooting Medium Format and very exacting work for clients, I would not want to risk anything that degrades the quality. But for the snapshots I'm shooting, I wouldn't care about the 0.09% loss of contrast caused by the filter. There is no point in being too anal about it, especially shooting with a Leica M with its inaccurate framing and spontaneous character.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    I'm reconning on 6 months before the M-240 is in people's hands.
    I just picked up a 'demo' ( really new ) M9 as a second body.

    I think I will let my M-240 order pass or delay it until the very end of 2013 when they will be producing the 2nd turn of hardware that mops up any modifications discovered in the first production run.

    The M9 may be old, but it performance, bugs and limitations are well understood.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    If one wants to wait a long tome for the M-240 you might as well wait for the M-280 which is already on the drawing boards assuming a three year lag from conception to introduction.

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    Re: M9 or wait for M typ 240?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    If one wants to wait a long tome for the M-240 you might as well wait for the M-280 which is already on the drawing boards assuming a three year lag from conception to introduction.
    LOL!

    Waiting four to five months for an announced product is much different from waiting an unknown amount of time for an expected but only rumored product.

    I could wait for any number of rumored, unannounced products nearly forever. Or I can buy what's available, or order what's soon-to-be available, and get on with doing whatever it is I wanted to do.

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