M9 or wait for M typ 240?

[Robert Campbell]

It's a couple of decades since I used an M (M3 and M4), but I feel the urge returning, though it's time to go digital. But...should I go for an M9 or wait for the M typ 240? I've used live view (on an Olympus, and with the finder) and I'm not greatly impressed. The major difference between the two, for me, is the sensor. I realise that there's not much info about the M typ 240's sensor 9abilities), but is it likely to be so much better that I should wait for it? Your thoughts gratefully received.

 

[segedi]

Besides the sensor, there are a couple of other perks in my opinion. I really loved the look of the M9 Titanium's LED projected framelines. The new M also has these.

Faster image processing, better battery life and some weather-proofing are big bonuses too.

The other thing to consider though is the M-E. A new M9 at a much better price. So you'd save money compared to buying the M9 now and the warranty on a new one will be better than buying used IMO.

 

[Vivek]

Robert, Wait for the new M with liveview.

 

[dseelig]

I thinkyou should buy my m9 LOL at a used price. LOL whynot rent for a weened and try an m9 see if it is for you. Live view for me emans nothing I want the new boday for 6400 iso and for the viewfinder when using my 75 or 90 or the 16-21 David

 

[Godfrey]

It's a couple of decades since I used an M (M3 and M4), but I feel the urge returning, though it's time to go digital. But...should I go for an M9 or wait for the M typ 240? I've used live view (on an Olympus, and with the finder) and I'm not greatly impressed. The major difference between the two, for me, is the sensor. I realise that there's not much info about the M typ 240's sensor 9abilities), but is it likely to be so much better that I should wait for it? Your thoughts gratefully received.

The new M is still fundamentally a rangefinder camera like all Ms have been. The addition of Live View via LCD or EVF, and video capture, extends its capabilities ... for motion work, for macro, and for long or very wide lenses. That's how I see it.

Otherwise, from reading the many reviews and articles on it, the new M's other improvements address most if not all of the issues that people have raised about the M9. Improved responsiveness, faster transfer to media and display in review, improved frameline illumination, (expected) gains in higher sensitivity performance, better battery life, weathersealing, et al ... if these things are important to you and you're not in a rush, I'd put a pre-order in and wait for the new one.

Otherwise the M9 or M-E will do fine. I am still just beginning to push the M9 seriously and find it a very fine camera in every respect. I'll eventually want a new M ... either in addition or alongside ... but I see no reason whatever to rush as my M9 is barely nine months old at this point.

 

[edwardkaraa]

I was planning to get the typ 240, but my local dealer gave me a very good offer on a new M9, 5700$, which is lower than what the M-E will sell for in my part of the world, so I jumped on the occasion.

Like Godfrey, eventually I will get a typ 240, but for now I am very happy with the M9, as none of its quirks really bother me. YMMV.

 

[StephenPatterson]

This one is a little tough, as we don't know yet if Leica has been able to make their new CMOS sensor "sing" with all those legacy lenses, but for argument's sake let's assume that the new M240's IQ is at least equal to the M9 (although I am hopeful it will be superior). There are obviously advantages in higher ISO, live-view, focus peaking, video (if desired), weather proofing, faster processor, larger buffer, better LCD...but I believe the major advantage is the EVF. I realize that you have indicated that an EVF is not a factor in your buying decision, but I believe it will be a major benefit of the M. The ability to have focus peaking, zoom to focus, diopter correction (without the need for $100 screw in magnifiers, and use wide and telephoto lenses without optical finders is a major benefit. Also there are many people with less than perfect eyesight (like me), and using a rangefinder becomes more and more difficult with age. For those reasons I like the new M.

The big unknown as of today is how the CMOS files are going to look compared to the CCD. I expect Leica to answer that question very soon. If the IQ is superior it's a pretty easy decision for me. If the CMOS files however don't have that "Leica look" that I'm used to then I will just keep my M9 and live with no EVF, lower ISO, slower buffer, etc.

A few more months should answer the question, however there is no guarantee that the M240 will be available anytime soon. Mid-2013 is not unrealistic. If you don't want to wait that long then a new M9, M9-P (while supplies last) or M-E is your best option (because of the warranty).

Stephen

PS I expect M8 and M9 prices to continue to fall next year, as owners trade in and sell their cameras to purchase the new M. The M8 is especially susceptible to further price drops after Leica announced they will no longer be able to repair defective LCD screens.

 

[jonoslack]

Hi There Robert
I hope you're well - long time no speak

It's a couple of decades since I used an M (M3 and M4), but I feel the urge returning, though it's time to go digital. But...should I go for an M9 or wait for the M typ 240? I've used live view (on an Olympus, and with the finder) and I'm not greatly impressed. The major difference between the two, for me, is the sensor. I realise that there's not much info about the M typ 240's sensor 9abilities), but is it likely to be so much better that I should wait for it? Your thoughts gratefully received.

Godfrey has put it very well I think - I doubt whether the sensor is going to give you a huge advantage (except at high ISO), but there are other benefits.

On the other hand, I think that the launch excitement has meant that stocks of M9p cameras are being sold at really good prices - I rather think that they might even go up again later on. Maybe the answer is to get an M9p now, and then think of changing over when the M arrives (I guess that's a financial decision).

I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun though - nothing like shooting with an M camera.

all the best

 

[douglasf13]

Agreed, Jono. We don't yet know what the 240's output is going to be like (although I'm sure it will be excellent,) and the camera isn't going to be available for a long time.

After three years of waffling, I finally made the decision to buy an M camera, and I bought the M9 slightly used for a steal. I don't really need any of the hot new features of the 240, outside of maybe the weather sealing and better high ISO. Plus, I'm not in love with the LCD illuminated frame line concept, at least not yet.

At this point, I'm betting that choosing between the M9 and 240 IQ will be akin to choosing the film that you prefer. I'm not really that much of a high ISO shooter, so I'm fine with the M9 (it's similar to my old A900 at high ISO,) and it may very well be a little better at lower ISOs than the 240. Tough to say.

When everyone was shooting film, many of us tended to stick to the same film, rather than buying whatever the newest thing on the market was, and I'm starting to feel that way a little bit with digital sensors, now that they're all pretty good these days...but, if the 240 shows something special, I'll consider trading up for it.

All of that being said, if you need video and live view features, the 240 seems a no-brainer.

 

[edwardkaraa]

Regarding the LED illuminated framelines, Douglas makes a good point. Even though the concept isn't new, it has been implemented in the Titanium, I have not read any opinions about it, probably because the guys who bought the Titanium keep it wrapped in cellophane in a safety box in some Swiss bank

However, I can't think of any negative aspect about it. It's just that LED lamps are replacing the external light. This said I have never had any difficulties viewing the frame lines even in the dimmest lighting with the M9, M6 and Zeiss Ikon cameras. I only fear that the LED might be too glaringly bright in dark environments and affect the viewing and focusing of the subject, despite the typ 240 being equipped with a light sensor and changes the illumination brightness automatically.

 

[douglasf13]

Regarding the LED illuminated framelines, Douglas makes a good point. Even though the concept isn't new, it has been implemented in the Titanium, I have not read any opinions about it, probably because the guys who bought the Titanium keep it wrapped in cellophane in a safety box in some Swiss bank

However, I can't think of any negative aspect about it. It's just that LED lamps are replacing the external light. This said I have never had any difficulties viewing the frame lines even in the dimmest lighting with the M9, M6 and Zeiss Ikon cameras. I only fear that the LED might be too glaringly bright in dark environments and affect the viewing and focusing of the subject, despite the typ 240 being equipped with a light sensor and changes the illumination brightness automatically.

Yeah, from what I understand, you can make the lines either red (like the Titanium) or white, which is pretty cool. Still, having shot the X100 for a while, I prefer the more subtle viewfinder lines of the M9, myself, so it'll be interesting to see just how bright the 240 lines are.

A disadvantage is that the camera has to be powered on to see the lines in the viewfinder, which may or may not affect some users.

I'll just have to see what the LCD lines are like and decide myself.

 

[edwardkaraa]

Douglas, they are not LCD lines. They are good old Leica M frame lines but illuminated by LED lamps. That's at least what David Farkas believes, I haven't handled the camera myself, obviously

Leica M9 Titanium technical data:

http://us.leica-camera.com/assets/file/download.php?filename=file_5076.pdf

 

[Robert Campbell]

Thanks all for the comments.

I much preferred the OVF of the M3 to the M4 because of the greater magnification (.9 vs .7), so I'd find the OVF of either the M9 or the 240 uncomfortable. Which rather implies that the 240 with the EVF would be a better choice for me, despite my aversion to EVFs.

I'm in no hurry; I think I'll wait to see what people think of the 240 before jumping in.

 

[douglasf13]

You're correct, I miss-typed that. I meant LED (illuminating the frame lines.) I guess that if there is some way to adjust brightness, I'd be fine with that, although I have caught myself looking through the M9 viewfinder with the camera turned off, in order to frame and visualize, so I may miss that ability to do this with the camera powered off in the 240. Probably no biggie, though.

 

[douglasf13]

Thanks all for the comments.

I much preferred the OVF of the M3 to the M4 because of the greater magnification (.9 vs .7), so I'd find the OVF of either the M9 or the 240 uncomfortable. Which rather implies that the 240 with the EVF would be a better choice for me, despite my aversion to EVFs.

I'm in no hurry; I think I'll wait to see what people think of the 240 before jumping in.

Have you tried a magnifier on the M9? I've been using the 1.25x, and I like it. It bumps the magnification to .85.

 

[Godfrey]

You're correct, I miss-typed that. I meant LED (illuminating the frame lines.) I guess that if there is some way to adjust brightness, I'd be fine with that, although I have caught myself looking through the M9 viewfinder with the camera turned off, in order to frame and visualize, so I may miss that ability to do this with the camera powered off in the 240. Probably no biggie, though.

I might find this a plus. Can't tell you how many times I've picked up the M9, focused framed, and ... pffft! forgot to turn on the camera. The lack of framelines would be an immediate indication that I still have to turn on the power.

The lack of LEDs at the bottom of the M9 finder is another, but then I'm pretty used to the M4-2 which doesn't have them... On that camera, I forget to wind the film to the next frame.

Nothing is foolproof ... ]'-)

 

[douglasf13]

I might find this a plus. Can't tell you how many times I've picked up the M9, focused framed, and ... pffft! forgot to turn on the camera. The lack of framelines would be an immediate indication that I still have to turn on the power.

Good point, but it still won't tell ya if your lens cap is on!

 

[Godfrey]

Good point, but it still won't tell ya if your lens cap is on!

Yup. Done that one too. *-P

 

[edwardkaraa]

Have you tried a magnifier on the M9? I've been using the 1.25x, and I like it. It bumps the magnification to .85.

Douglas, what's the widest frame you can still see comfortably with the magnifier attached? Can you still see the shutter speed digits? Thanks!

 

[edwardkaraa]

Yup. Done that one too. *-P

I have tried many times to take a photo when the camera is off, but not yet with the cap on

Still waiting for that to happen though