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Thread: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Hi All,

    I have been using so far the Leica lens correction in camera to remove the color shift on the ZM 18 and 25. I found the best equivalents in a list that I received from Zeiss upon request, but it is also available on the Leica user forum. Now while the profiles are successful in removing the color shift entirely on the 25 and and partially on the 18, they happen to remove vignetting in a very unnatural way, that makes the photos look somewhat flat. I prefer the natural vignetting in lenses as it adds to their character.

    So any suggestions?
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    You could try converting the image to lab color space and then opening curves and selecting the a curve and then flattening it out--if the curve intersects the center, the color balance should be preserved.

    The only other way would be making a flat frame and removing the luminance information keeping only the color and then subtracting it from you image.

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Thank you shashin. In other terms, it's not possible
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Yeah, you can keep the vignetting if you use CornerFix, but I don't think you can with the Leica profiles, although I guess you could always add vignetting back in Lightroom.

    FWIW, keep in mind that digital vignettes more than film, so getting rid of some of the vignetting gets things closer to how many of these lenses were intended to look on film, if that matters at all.

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Thanks Douglas,

    I tried to do profile shots for the 18 and 25 but found it next to impossible because of the very wide angle of view. Also I have found out that both lenses produce no color shift at close distances. I have the impression the shift starts at about 3 meter. So the correction is required at infinity only. I think should get myself an expo disc, that should help making the profile shots easier.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Senior Member Taylor Sherman's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    I've had good luck making profile shots by holding the lens right up against a computer monitor showing a white page, +2EV. This was with a Nex though, not an M9.
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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    That's sounds like a great idea Taylor. I will try it tonight. Thanks!
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post

    So any suggestions?
    I guess this may be too simple, but why not let the profile remove the vignetting then manually re-do the vignetting? It is an easy enough job in post processing and has got to be a simpler action than going all around the houses trying to remove the colour cast without removing the vignetting.

    Steve
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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Good idea, Steve. Thanks!
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Here are a few experiments with Zeiss recommended profiles. Shot at f/8 at infinity focusing distance.

    ZM 25:

    Off - 24/2.8 asph - 28/2.8 asph

    Attachment 64728

    Attachment 64729

    Attachment 64730
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    ZM 18:

    Off - 24/2.8 asph - 28/2 asph

    Attachment 64731

    Attachment 64732

    Attachment 64733
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    I use both with the M9 and found that they're generally best coded as an Elmarit-M 21mm f/2.8 ASPH. That depends on the framelines they bring up, however:

    Leica Lens Codes

    You can also try using Cornerfix - but that's a complete correction solution. You'll probably want to add back in your own vignetting.
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    They look OK Edward. The vignetting isn't as much as I imagined you wanted, but with almost any photograph even a small amount of burning of the edges helps hold the image 'in the frame' and compensates for the optical illusion of the image getting lighter towards the edges when set against a light coloured background.

    Steve
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_barnett/
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    Senior Member Taylor Sherman's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    I use both with the M9 and found that they're generally best coded as an Elmarit-M 21mm f/2.8 ASPH. That depends on the framelines they bring up, however:

    Leica Lens Codes

    You can also try using Cornerfix - but that's a complete correction solution. You'll probably want to add back in your own vignetting.
    Cornerfix lets you adjust the amount of color correction and falloff correction independently. Though, I can't say the results are always what you'd expect. I've made profiles that work OK with both corrections at 100%, but get ugly when I try to leave the falloff alone (just correct color). I have got one now that lets me use 0% for falloff and 100% for color, which is what I like.
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    When I owned the 25mm ZM, I also tried both 24mm vs 28mm profile. What I found was that using 28mm, it removed the color corners but had more vignette. When I used it as 24mm, it had no vignette but had a slight redness in corners, but only if I shoot the sky, so it was negligible in normal use.

    I think I would have preferred to code it as 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH, but I ended up coding it as 24mm because I actually had a real 28mm, so I didn't want to confuse them in Lightroom.
    David Young
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor Sherman View Post
    Cornerfix lets you adjust the amount of color correction and falloff correction independently. Though, I can't say the results are always what you'd expect. I've made profiles that work OK with both corrections at 100%, but get ugly when I try to leave the falloff alone (just correct color). I have got one now that lets me use 0% for falloff and 100% for color, which is what I like.
    Hmm, true. I have to admit, I used it rather briefly before the second to last round of M9 firmware came out and improved things quite a bit. That and sheer laziness on my part. I like the vignetting too. The "red edge" or "Italian flag" coloring can be a pain though. It can be corrected to varying degrees with a gradient applied during import or cropped out... Worse comes to worse, try a B&W conversion. Whee. Part of why I ended up moving to Leica glass.
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    A recent pic from the M9 and 4/18 coded as a WATE. Ideally and as I tested it, works best as an Elmarit-M 21mm f/2.8 ASPH. I forgot exactly why offhand - either it won't read another code because of a screw, or the framelines it brings up... Either way I'd need a modified flange. Solution there is to set it manually, which I forgot to do in this shot. You can see a bit of the red edge on the left (the rest I cropped).

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor Sherman View Post
    Cornerfix lets you adjust the amount of color correction and falloff correction independently. Though, I can't say the results are always what you'd expect. I've made profiles that work OK with both corrections at 100%, but get ugly when I try to leave the falloff alone (just correct color). I have got one now that lets me use 0% for falloff and 100% for color, which is what I like.
    Same experience here. I did create profiles and they just produce weird colors. Quite inconsistent, but I think it is due to my laziness not setting up a proper lighting.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosermage View Post
    When I owned the 25mm ZM, I also tried both 24mm vs 28mm profile. What I found was that using 28mm, it removed the color corners but had more vignette. When I used it as 24mm, it had no vignette but had a slight redness in corners, but only if I shoot the sky, so it was negligible in normal use.

    I think I would have preferred to code it as 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH, but I ended up coding it as 24mm because I actually had a real 28mm, so I didn't want to confuse them in Lightroom.
    Agreed, David. I prefer the 28 profiles because they do not remove vignetting completely but seem to be more efficient with the Italian flag.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    I use both with the M9 and found that they're generally best coded as an Elmarit-M 21mm f/2.8 ASPH. That depends on the framelines they bring up, however:

    Leica Lens Codes

    You can also try using Cornerfix - but that's a complete correction solution. You'll probably want to add back in your own vignetting.
    Thank you Michael. I will try the 21 profile asap. Nice shot of the 4wheeler by the way
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Oh ya, I forgot another reason why I went with 24mm at the end... the 25ZM I had brings up the 35mm framelines on M9. So even if I use sharpie to code it as 28mm, it won't register unless I toggle the frameline selector to 28mm, which was a major PAIN. I think there are 25ZM that do bring up the 28mm frameline, though.
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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    I have perfect cornerfix profiles for the 18 and 25 ZM's. I don't remember if they were for uncoded lenses or not though.
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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosermage View Post
    Oh ya, I forgot another reason why I went with 24mm at the end... the 25ZM I had brings up the 35mm framelines on M9. So even if I use sharpie to code it as 28mm, it won't register unless I toggle the frameline selector to 28mm, which was a major PAIN. I think there are 25ZM that do bring up the 28mm frameline, though.
    Mine brings up 35mm frames too. However, I do not plan to code my lenses, just manually select the best profile from the menu. Usually I use one lens for the entire shoot, so I don't think it would be a problem to do this.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    I have perfect cornerfix profiles for the 18 and 25 ZM's. I don't remember if they were for uncoded lenses or not though.
    Dan, that's quite a feat

    I really would love to try them, do you think it is possible to email them to me? I would be very grateful. (if you do not want to, that would be perfectly alright, I totally understand).

    My email is: [email protected]
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Could you use one conversion with and one conversion without Leica profile and use PS layer interactions or other PS magic to use color from one and luminosity from the other? I never tried that, but I think it might be possible.

    I use Leica or my own LR lens profile to remove vignetting and I add it again after cropping - the LR vignetting looks natural and gives me more freedom in final composition.

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    I prefer to use Capture One's LCC feature. You can select to remove the colour cast and then vary the degree of removing vignetting. Typically I create one profile for each f-stop, so it's pretty quick to use as I don't do an LCC for each shot.

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Well, I am starting to get good results with cornerfix, thanks to the profiles from Dan. I found out I'm getting best results by keeping vignetting correction at 0, and dialling in a very small amount of color shift correction, around 0.25 to 0.50. The default setting at 1 is too strong imho.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    And changing the amount of vignetting is the easiest thing in the world. All raw converters that I know of have (a) simple slider(s) for the purpose. Just add to taste.
    Another fan of LCC profiles in C1 btw.
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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Edward, I just stumbled upon this LR plugin that apparently does similar thing as Cornerfix:
    Plug-ins for Adobe Photoshop Lightroom | Adobe Labs

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    Thanks Mirek. I have seen it mentioned elsewhere and already downloaded it, but didn't have the time to try it yet. Users claim they get better results than with cornerfix.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    That's encouraging. I wonder if it is good enough to handle lenses like Zeiss 21/4.5...

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    Re: How to remove color shift and keep vignetting?

    That would be a miracle

    It seems the LR plugin is less finicky about profiles than cornerfix.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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