Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 32 of 32

Thread: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

  1. #1
    Member animefx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Springfield, IL
    Posts
    166
    Post Thanks / Like

    28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    I have been using the 35 summarit on my M8 and love the focal length. I will be getting my Leica M within the first 2 months of it's release most likely because I'm on the pre-order list.

    I had used my 35 summarit breifly on an M9 (before I had to send it back) and liked the focal length on it too, although at times it was difficult to use for every situation for street photography.

    For a long time my dream lens was the 50 summilux ASPH, but lately I've been questioning that. I actually like the colors and rendering the best on the 28 Summicron ASPH from *any* lens I've seen. However, I'm afraid the 28mm focal length will be the the least used focal length out of the 3 choices: 28, 35, and 50.

    50mm would probably be my most used focal length, it seems like the 50 Summilux ASPH mostly excels in portraiture (which I do love) since it has superior bokeh and is fairly clinical. However, I'm not convinced that it's actually "sharper" than my 35 Summarit though, I'm not sure about the "character" of the lens either. It probably has more "character" than the 35 FLE, but the 35 FLE is probably the sharpest lens I've ever seen on the M outside of the 50 Summicron APO.

    I might be able to keep the 35 Summarit if I buy the 28 Summicron or 50 Summilux ASPH, but I couldn't afford or justify the keep it with the 35 FLE.

    I could get the 28 Summicron and use it as a 35mm lens on my M8 until the Leica M comes out, but I shoot the least when it's cold outside, so I can't justify it for that reason alone.

    So a few questions to those of you who have used these lenses or have owned them...

    - How do you feel about the 50 Summilux ASPH used as "general purpose" lens on a full frame camera? Do you feel like that biting sharpness is there for landscape and other non portrait photography?

    - Would it be worth it to own a 28 Summicron ASPH and also keep my 35 Summarit? I could crop the 28mm to 35mm without much loss in pixels. But of course, I could also crop 35mm to 50mm with a little bit more pixel loss.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    It sounds like you aren't a big fan of a 28mm lens on FF. (Same with me, though some others love it.) For that reason alone, I would disregard the idea of getting the Cron 28 asph for your future M. (It's a great lens, but only if you like the 28mm focal length.)

    You have a good 35mm lens already, so I would ponder a 50mm. (Some may say 35 and 50 are too close, but lots of others love them both. In fact, some greats [Bresson, Dave Harvey, etc.] use both 35mm and 50mm lenses.) If I were in your shoes, I would, thus, be pondering a 50mm lens (or maybe something even longer [e.g., 75 or 90]). In terms of 50s, I would ponder the Lux 50 asph or Cron 50 pre-asph (last version). Most folks will recommended that you get the Lux, which is technically one of Leica's best lenses. But I actually sold my Lux 50 asph to get the Cron 50 pre-asph--because, at least on digital, I find the newer asph lenses to be too clinical. That is, however, a very personal thing. Some like a perfect rendering with digital, while some (like me) do not. If I could have just two lenses on a FF M, I would definitely have a 35 and ... 50 or 90. In fact, probably the 90 because that would give me two quite different focal lengths--the 35 for normal street and the 90 for street portraits. Again, that's quite personal ...

    I suspect that you'd prefer having a 35 and 50 (from what you said in your post). Thus, if you can keep your Summarit 35, I'd look into adding a 50. However, if you can only afford one lens (which is NOT a bad thing, by the way), then you'd need to ponder whether you want a 35 OR 50. There are myriad threads on that decision--and, again, it is very personal. The best street photographers use 35 or 50 or, sometimes, 28. So there's not a uniform correct way to shoot on the streets.

    Alas, let us know what you decide. My situation contrasts from yours, in that I have my lenses in good order (for me), but need to ponder a FF digital body ... M9, M9P, ME, MM, M ... (so many options now or soon).
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  3. #3
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    I own those lenses you mention and frankly I think you need to first figur out which focal length you want and then decide which lenses to choose.
    If you like the 35 Summarit the 50 Summarit could also be an option to the 50 Summilux.
    The 50 lux draws sharp but not clinical.
    The Summarit lenses have a little bit less contrast (still very good) and have a nice bokeh.
    I didnt understand if you keep the M8 and look for lenses for both cameras?
    Other than that 28-50 is a very nice combo IMO. 35mm is great if you sometimes want to carry just one lens. 35-75 or 35-90 is a great combo as well.

    If I were you I would keep that 35 Summarit, use it a while on the new M and then see what you miss.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    422
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    I like the 28 Cron ASPH so well it's become my wide, alongside a 50 and a 90. Prior to using the 28 Cron ASPH I was a 35/50/90 fellow. Sometimes a lens creates its own place, and one learns to use it.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  5. #5
    Member animefx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Springfield, IL
    Posts
    166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I own those lenses you mention and frankly I think you need to first figur out which focal length you want and then decide which lenses to choose.
    If you like the 35 Summarit the 50 Summarit could also be an option to the 50 Summilux.
    The 50 lux draws sharp but not clinical.
    The Summarit lenses have a little bit less contrast (still very good) and have a nice bokeh.
    I didnt understand if you keep the M8 and look for lenses for both cameras?
    Other than that 28-50 is a very nice combo IMO. 35mm is great if you sometimes want to carry just one lens. 35-75 or 35-90 is a great combo as well.

    If I were you I would keep that 35 Summarit, use it a while on the new M and then see what you miss.
    It will be hard to part with my M8, but its actually going to help fund my Leica M. I'll be selling it the day I get my Leica M unless for some odd reason I don't end up liking the Leica M.

    Even though I'm basically using a 1 lens solution now, it's not optimal due to the M8's lackluster low light capabilities and the summarit being f/2.5. I love the summarit so much, but that doesn't necessarily mean I wouldn't like any of the above even more so.

    I guess I need to figure out if I go with a 1 lens solution it should probably be a the 35 FLE, but if I keep the 35 Summarit I guess a 50mm lens would be the best addition to my kit. Still the way the 28 Summicron renders color and bokeh is soooooo appealing to me

  6. #6
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Hmmm
    Well, unless you're missing much wider, I'd agree with Tom - forget the 28 'cron for now.

    . . . . and then a question:

    . . do you want to focus close up (less than 1 metre).

    If not, I'd seriously suggest keeping your 35 summarit, and buying the 50 summarit and either the 75 or the 90. This will still be cheaper than buying a 50 'lux, and it'll give you much more flexibility. personally I'd go for the 50 and the 90. The better high ISO in the Leica M (maybe two stops over the M8) will mean that the f2.5 really isn't much of a handicap.


    That's what I'd do in your situation - all the summarits are lovely lenses, and the compromises which make them cheaper are the slower aperture and the longer close focus distance - there really isn't much of a compromise in terms of image quality. They also have a similar signature, which should help you to establish a feeling across all the lenses.

    The nice thing about Leica lenses, is that if you buy them sensibly they're unlikely to lose value, so you can change your mind cheaply later on.

    A Leica M with 25/50/90 focal lengths is a wonderful setup.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #7
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Jono, both the Summarits (35 and 50) focus close to 0.8m. SO its 0.8m vs 0.7m of the Summiluxes.
    Its the Noctilux with focuses not closer than 1m.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  8. #8
    Member borge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    41
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Put your money into the one focal length that is your favorite and focus on getting even better at framing with that focal length, rather than having too many options available.

    According to my own statistics with previous gear that I owned with primes that covered the 28-35-50-90 focal lengths I used the 50mm about 80% of the time, and 90% of my favorite captures was taken with the 50mm equalent lens.

    That made my choices really simple when I decided to purchase Leica gear: 50mm summilux was a must-have due to my usage of that focal length and because of its ability to separate subjects from the background in a very nice way. It was also incredibly more flare resistant than the latest summicron, and I liked its characteristics.

    But most importantly: it is my definite preferred focal length. I used the 28/35 in maybe 15% of my use, and the 90 in maybe 5% (could be less as well). So these focal lengths are merely non-important accessories for me personally.

    So evaluate your own preference and put your money into what you will end up using the most. It could even be a good thing not having too many options (focal lengths) available.
    Website: www.indergaard.net
    Instagram: instagram.com/borgeindergaard @borgeindergaard
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Jono, both the Summarits (35 and 50) focus close to 0.8m. SO its 0.8m vs 0.7m of the Summiluxes.
    Its the Noctilux with focuses not closer than 1m.
    Hi Tom
    Thanks for the clarification - makes my argument even more cogent I'd say!

    Just this guy you know

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by borge View Post
    Put your money into the one focal length that is your favorite and focus on getting even better at framing with that focal length, rather than having too many options available.

    According to my own statistics with previous gear that I owned with primes that covered the 28-35-50-90 focal lengths I used the 50mm about 80% of the time, and 90% of my favorite captures was taken with the 50mm equalent lens.

    That made my choices really simple when I decided to purchase Leica gear: 50mm summilux was a must-have due to my usage of that focal length and because of its ability to separate subjects from the background in a very nice way. It was also incredibly more flare resistant than the latest summicron, and I liked its characteristics.

    But most importantly: it is my definite preferred focal length. I used the 28/35 in maybe 15% of my use, and the 90 in maybe 5% (could be less as well). So these focal lengths are merely non-important accessories for me personally.
    Something to consider indeed . . .but if all you've ever had is a 50mm equivalent (35 on the M8) then it's tough to know which focal length would be your favourite. 35/50/90 summarits would give you a chance to find out

    Me? I also use a 50 most of the time - except indoors when the 75 is more popular - but I've some grand shots taken with the WATE as well.

    Just this guy you know

  11. #11
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    It infrequently a straight path to your preferred Leica M lens kit . You need to have time to work with the different focal lengths . Over time you may find yourself going wider .

    If you are going to the new M ..then I would want the 35/1.4asph FLE as the one best all around lens .

  12. #12
    Senior Member Hosermage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    I'd say get the lens you lust after... get it and use it until you're sick of it. If it doesn't click with you, sell it and treat the money loss as rental fees, which is cheaper the longer you use it Trying different lenses is part of the fun, until you finally find one you're not willing to part with, and at that time, you'll need to come up with more money to try a second lens while keeping the first one... and so on.

    Personally, I tried to start out cheap and work my way up, but in retrospective, I should have just gone for the one I really wanted: 50'Lux ASPH. However, having tried some of the cheaper 50's allows me to appreciate the 50'Lux even more and now I'm confident that it was worth the additional cost over the other lenses, at least for me.
    David Young
    My journey into Leica: LeicaLux.com
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  13. #13
    Member borge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    41
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Something to consider indeed . . .but if all you've ever had is a 50mm equivalent (35 on the M8) then it's tough to know which focal length would be your favourite. 35/50/90 summarits would give you a chance to find out
    True. I would probably choose something else to experiment with though. OM-D or X-E1 with the equalent primes for example. Even the Summarits are very expensive to experiment with (I think so). Maybe a set of used non-asph lenses in the summarit or summicron line is the best and most economical way to experiment with different focal lengths, I'd say.

    OP: if you have the possibility of renting the lenses for a few weeks each I'd advise you to do that so you can evaluate the different focal lengths in your regular day-to-day shooting. Good luck with your choice.
    Website: www.indergaard.net
    Instagram: instagram.com/borgeindergaard @borgeindergaard

  14. #14
    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    363
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Consider the Zeiss ZM Planar 50mm. It's very sharp, nice bokeh. It's f/2 so if you need the speed, something else would be better. But it's one fine lens. I also own the Summilux 50mm ASPH, but can't part with the humble Zeiss.

    If you want something sharper in 35mm you may want to try the Zeiss ZM Biogon 35mm. It's almost a stop faster than your Summarit. And sharper, especially in the corners. I am going to sell my Summarit as I picked up the Zeiss recently. Not to knock the Summarit, I just prefer the speed and sharpness of the Zeiss.
    Segedi.com

    flickr
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  15. #15
    Member borge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    41
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosermage View Post
    I'd say get the lens you lust after... get it and use it until you're sick of it. If it doesn't click with you, sell it and treat the money loss as rental fees, which is cheaper the longer you use it Trying different lenses is part of the fun, until you finally find one you're not willing to part with, and at that time, you'll need to come up with more money to try a second lens while keeping the first one... and so on.

    Personally, I tried to start out cheap and work my way up, but in retrospective, I should have just gone for the one I really wanted: 50'Lux ASPH. However, having tried some of the cheaper 50's allows me to appreciate the 50'Lux even more and now I'm confident that it was worth the additional cost over the other lenses, at least for me.
    Very good point. The saying "The poor man pays twice" is sadly very true! Going for what you initially want will usually save you expenses in the long run, as you'll most probably end up with what you initially wanted anyway - albeit at a bigger total cost.
    Website: www.indergaard.net
    Instagram: instagram.com/borgeindergaard @borgeindergaard

  16. #16
    Member animefx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Springfield, IL
    Posts
    166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Smile Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosermage View Post
    I'd say get the lens you lust after... get it and use it until you're sick of it. If it doesn't click with you, sell it and treat the money loss as rental fees, which is cheaper the longer you use it Trying different lenses is part of the fun, until you finally find one you're not willing to part with, and at that time, you'll need to come up with more money to try a second lens while keeping the first one... and so on.

    Personally, I tried to start out cheap and work my way up, but in retrospective, I should have just gone for the one I really wanted: 50'Lux ASPH. However, having tried some of the cheaper 50's allows me to appreciate the 50'Lux even more and now I'm confident that it was worth the additional cost over the other lenses, at least for me.
    Thanks for the replies everyone! After reading all suggestions I think this is what I'll do. I just have to figure out which lens I lust for most and if I don't like the focal length I'm sure I could sell it for at least 80% of what I purchased the lens for.

    Over the years I've been going to wider focal lengths for the most part, which I feel has been good for my photography overall. In the past, I would want to shoot 135mm all of the time, but now I'm pretty happy with 50mm and 35mm lengths due to the versatility. If I lived in a larger city I would probably be tempted more by 28mm, but I'm not sure I can justify it now. I think the solution is to increase my lens arsenal slowly over time.

    I'll let you guys know what I end up with... It will probably be soon.

  17. #17
    Member animefx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Springfield, IL
    Posts
    166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by segedi View Post
    Consider the Zeiss ZM Planar 50mm. It's very sharp, nice bokeh. It's f/2 so if you need the speed, something else would be better. But it's one fine lens. I also own the Summilux 50mm ASPH, but can't part with the humble Zeiss.

    If you want something sharper in 35mm you may want to try the Zeiss ZM Biogon 35mm. It's almost a stop faster than your Summarit. And sharper, especially in the corners. I am going to sell my Summarit as I picked up the Zeiss recently. Not to knock the Summarit, I just prefer the speed and sharpness of the Zeiss.
    Hmmm... Sounds interesting, I need to research the Zeiss 50 ZM Planar some. Is this the same lens that a blogger compared favorably with the new 50 Summicron APO?

    There is something about Leica I prefer over all other manufacturers lenses, but Zeiss seems to be nearly as good.

    Anyone know the minimum focus distance for the Zeiss 50 ZM Planar? I heard that Zeiss has lenses that can actually focus closer, so that way the Leica M with Live View / EVF could take advantage of the closer focusing distance?

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    691
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Seems like you must get a 50, other lenses will not be intuitive to you. Don't forget the 50 lux is much heavier, it will feel very different. I'd go with jono's recommendation or perhaps a 50 cron, still one of the finest lenses ever made and a real nice size and still costs less, it's probably closer to what you currently love about Leica. I use a 50 lux pre-asph and a 28 cron. The 28 is nice, but it's not in your vocabulary yet. I think it took me a year to understand the 50 lux, I tried a 35 cron before settling on the 28.

    The extra size ans weight of a lux might turn you off whereas the results might inspire you more.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    as has been suggested, i think it's helpful that you decide first how many lenses you plan to have and second what focal lengths they'll be at. that's not always easy when moving from cropped to FF, but it really streamlines the decision-making process.

    with one lens on FF: 35 or 50 is most common.

    with two lens on FF: you mention 35 and 50 (while others would prefer 28 and 50 or 35 and 90 [i'm in the latter grouping]).

    after you have decided that, then i'd ponder specific lenses. that basic approach frees you up to ponder keeping your summarit 35 and deciding what 50 you want. (there are so many excellent 35s and 50s that it's hard to go wrong. it really comes down to personal taste, including as it pertains to rendering, size, speed, cost, 6-bit coding, etc.)
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  20. #20
    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    363
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    My favorite focal length in full frame is 35mm.
    I'd say I'm at
    65% 35mm
    25% 50mm
    8% 21mm
    2% 90mm

    But I like shooting street and landscape. And like a wider angle in those. Some shoot street and/or landscape with a 90mm, and quite successfully.

    While you could be quite happy with a Zeiss ZM 50mm, the others are correct in stating that you might second guess that and think about the Leica Summilux or Summicron. They are different. They feel, balance, focus differently. But if you have the funds and could pick just one, the Summilux is your best bet. Faster than the others, cheaper than the new Summicron and is a really fine performer.

    Caveat:
    Leica Summilux 50mm f/1.4 = $3995
    Leica Summilux 35mm f/1.4 = $4995 and hard to get
    Total cost of Leica = $8990

    Zeiss ZM Planar 50mm f/2 = $860
    Zeiss ZM Biogon 35mm f/2 = $1090
    Hood that fits both Zm lenses = $84
    Total cost of Zeiss = $2034

    Savings Zeiss vs Leica $6956 + proceeds from selling the 35mm Summarit =~ $8356
    Cost of Leica M Monochrom = $7950



    Some links for your perusal:
    The great 35mm rangefinder lens shootout:
    The Great 35mm Rangefinder Lens Shootout – PART 2 – Close Up and Wide Open – by Brad Husick | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

    Crazy about the Planar:
    Crazy about the Planar 50mm - pics thread - Page 5 - Rangefinderforum.com

  21. #21
    New Member rscheffler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    IMO the 50 Lux ASPH is not too clinical, but it's bokeh quality is extremely neutral, which can lend to that impression. Wide open at close distance it's got a slightly soft sharpness, which is complementary for portrait work. At far distances it's already quite sharp wide open but gets to be extremely sharp when stopped down a bit.

    Regarding the Zeiss 50 Planar (both focus to 70cm), the Zeiss is more contrasty at close distances and the bokeh is harder (hard edges to oof specular highlights). IMO the 50 Lux ASPH has less field curvature, but has a more pronounced mid zone dip in sharpness at wide apertures (you can see this in the MTF curves), whereas the Planar has a gradual falloff in sharpness to the edges, where it is softer than the Lux. I can shoot landscapes wide open or at f/2 with the Lux and have good across the frame sharpness, whereas with the Planar I feel I need to stop down past f/4 for the same (also my copy does not focus to infinity wide open).

    I posted some close up bokeh comparison shots of the 50 Lux ASPH, 50 Planar, CV50/1.5 and CV40/1.4 here: f/1.2 or faster lenses wide open - FM Forums

    I started my M9 system with Zeiss 21/35/50, then added the 90 Summarit. I found that I would use both the 35 and 50, but that the gap between 21 and 35 was pretty substantial. On SLRs I was never much of a 28mm fan, but based in part from images I've seen from the 28 Cron, added one to my kit. Initially it was a bit of an odd focal length for me, but over time I've found I use it and the 50 about equally. If it's a bit too loose for some situations, I'll simply crop the shot afterwards. 18MP (and soon to be 24) gives you that leeway.

    I'll add that the 28 Cron is a very interesting lens. Great colour, saturation and sharpness, along with interesting vignetting character. It's different from my other Leica lenses, but I just added the 21SEM and think the two share some similarities... Both are very sharp and seem to have somewhat higher contrast than my other Leica lenses...
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    422
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by rscheffler View Post
    I'll add that the 28 Cron is a very interesting lens. Great colour, saturation and sharpness, along with interesting vignetting character. It's different from my other Leica lenses, but I just added the 21SEM and think the two share some similarities... Both are very sharp and seem to have somewhat higher contrast than my other Leica lenses...
    Ron, if you don't mind, because I'm interested in the SEM 21 as a replacement for my uncoded ZM 21 f/2.8, I'd appreciate your thoughts on (a) similarities b/w the SEM 21 and the Cron 28 ASPH (which I really like) and (b) comparisons b/w the SEM 21 and the ZM 21 f/2.8. That's a lot to ask, I know, anything you could share would be helpful.

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Tromsø, Norway
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    I bought the 35 FLE, in part because Iīve always liked the idea of a 35 prime, but never owned one, in part because itīs undeniably awesome when it comes to MTF curves and whatnot, and in part because it was the lens that made me buy an M9 to begin with.

    I returned the FLE after a total of eight days in my ownership. It wasnīt for me, when it came down to decision time. Then I did what I shouldīve done from the start; bought myself a Cron 28. Why, you ask? I like wide angles, with all their (dis)advantages, spontaneity and huge amounts of depth of field at relatively open apertures. The 28 draws gentler and allows more slop in the focusing department than the FLE, so it has that going for it, too..

    I also found out that I can buy a less expensive ASPH v1 when the extra stop and/or more subject isolation is required, later on. Itīs a more "standard" focal length than the 28, and I donīt love the fifty mm all that much, so it would fill that niche,too. Until then, Iīll be perfectly content with the 28, and possibly a 90, as described in my other thread. (Iīm pretty green with Leicas, in case itīs not obvious)



    Cron at F/2.8, curious work buddy


    35 FLE at F/1.4, another work buddy
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    GTA, Canada
    Posts
    587
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Resistence is futile.. Follow your guts and get the 50 lux..

    I have been down this road and the constant thought in my mind was,
    "Maybe I should have just bought the Leica instead of Zeiss."

    It seems that you like the 50mm FOV, so I would say the 50mm lux is the obvious candidate.

    I also kept a large arsenal of lenses. But in reality, you will have your favourite and you likely won't want to waste time changing lenses when you could just be shooting...
    Scott

  25. #25
    Member animefx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Springfield, IL
    Posts
    166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    You guys helped me justify the 50 Summilux ASPH. I just ordered one today! Should get it sometime next week.

    I kind of wanted my 1st experience with it to be on full frame (Leica M) instead of my M8, but the price I got for it is nearly $600 cheaper than new price so I had to take advantage of it. 66mm should be great for portraits and misc shots while we all wait for the Leica M.

    I am selling my 5D2, 580ex II, 135 f/2L, and 35mm f/1.4L to pay for it, I should have a few hundred left over to put down on the Leica M next year.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    422
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    When I had my M8, I enjoyed the 50 focal length on it, and easily got used to the crop factor effect. As you say, very nice for portraits and a lot of city/street shooting too. I don't think the Lux ASPH will disappoint you.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  27. #27
    Member animefx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Springfield, IL
    Posts
    166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
    When I had my M8, I enjoyed the 50 focal length on it, and easily got used to the crop factor effect. As you say, very nice for portraits and a lot of city/street shooting too. I don't think the Lux ASPH will disappoint you.
    I think your right, both M8 and M9 photos I've seen taken with this lens are beautiful. I was wrong about the shipping... I should get it tomorrow because they aren't too far from me!

    Maybe I'll take the lens to Chicago or St. Louis this weekend. I'll post photos and my impression in a seperate thread probably by Monday or Tuesday

  28. #28
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
    Ron, if you don't mind, because I'm interested in the SEM 21 as a replacement for my uncoded ZM 21 f/2.8, I'd appreciate your thoughts on (a) similarities b/w the SEM 21 and the Cron 28 ASPH (which I really like) and (b) comparisons b/w the SEM 21 and the ZM 21 f/2.8. That's a lot to ask, I know, anything you could share would be helpful.
    These are my most used lenses 21 and 28 M . If you use the 28/2asph as a point f reference ..resolution is exceptional ,color is near perfect ,and contrast is moderate without harshness . The ZM 21 has a typical zeiss ..biting sharpness and contrast . So it has a different aesthetic . The 21SEM is IMHO as perfect an M lens as I have seen ....excels in every measure of IQ . I find the 21SEM and the 28CRON work very well together ..although the 21SEM has stronger contrast and color saturation . (its is similar to the 35/1.4FLE in rendering).
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2,058
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    If you like the 35 on your M8 (about 50 equivalent) then would not the 50 on the M be the lens for you?

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    422
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    These are my most used lenses 21 and 28 M . If you use the 28/2asph as a point f reference ..resolution is exceptional ,color is near perfect ,and contrast is moderate without harshness . The ZM 21 has a typical zeiss ..biting sharpness and contrast . So it has a different aesthetic . The 21SEM is IMHO as perfect an M lens as I have seen ....excels in every measure of IQ . I find the 21SEM and the 28CRON work very well together ..although the 21SEM has stronger contrast and color saturation . (its is similar to the 35/1.4FLE in rendering).
    Thank you much, Roger. All noted - will be very helpful in my decision-making. --Mike

  31. #31
    New Member rscheffler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
    Ron, if you don't mind, because I'm interested in the SEM 21 as a replacement for my uncoded ZM 21 f/2.8, I'd appreciate your thoughts on (a) similarities b/w the SEM 21 and the Cron 28 ASPH (which I really like) and (b) comparisons b/w the SEM 21 and the ZM 21 f/2.8. That's a lot to ask, I know, anything you could share would be helpful.
    It's still early for me with the SEM 21, but I feel the colour quality, contrast and sharpness between it and the 28 Cron are similar. The difference is that when stopped down around f/8, the SEM seems to have little visible vignetting whereas the Cron never seems to totally lose the vignetting. I'm not sure if this is a lens correction profile decision by Leica. I've noticed in higher ISO shots with the SEM (wide open where vignetting will be stronger) that noise at the image edges can be somewhat high because the correction profile is countering the vignetting perhaps more than I would like. Also, wide open the SEM is already very sharp across the frame, except perhaps at the very edges and corners, and stopping down doesn't really result in much of a change, other than more depth of field. The Cron wide open is somewhat softer in these areas (though very sharp centrally), but then, it's f/2 and stopped down to 3.4 or 4 is very good as well. The Cron exhibits some simple barrel distortion whereas the SEM seems better corrected, though Leica's distortion numbers for it indicate it distorts more than the Cron, and that distortion is more complex. LR4 has profiles for both and seems to correct both quite well.

    SEM vs. the ZM21 f/2.8.... The ZM was one of the lenses I started with on the M9, but I haven't yet done a direct comparison between the two. I hope to do a shootout at some point. But here are my impressions: The ZM seems to have a fair amount of field curvature which results in soft edges/corners if photographing a fairly flat subject. Central sharpness is excellent, but you have to stop down a couple stops for the edges to catch up. The SEM seems to have a flatter plane of focus. Physically the SEM is a bit shorter and the focusing tab is nice to have, as is proper coding and recognition by the M9. Optically I suspect the SEM is more telecentric than the ZM, which on the M9 might not mean all that much since the firmware update around June 2011 eliminated my need for a Cornerfix profile with the 21 Elmarit non-ASPH code for the ZM, but the SEM will probably play nicer on a wider range of mirrorless cameras. I get the feeling both are quite high contrast. On paper the SEM should be sharper, and so far I have been impressed with it. In this respect, I can definitely see the difference between it and my 21 Lux. Vs the ZM... I think if you're shooting a lot stopped down a fair amount - landscapes, urban scenes, etc. - there won't be a significant difference between the two. I think I would choose the SEM primarily because it's better wide open and would be willing to give up the half-stop for this and the smaller size of the lens.

    And as mentioned, at some point I hope to do a shootout between these two, and maybe throw in the 21 Lux as well.

    BTW, I can tell you the SEM outclasses the Lux for across the frame sharpness with both at f/3.4, but nothing, other than perhaps the upcoming CV21/1.8 can touch the Lux for subject/background separation.

    Hope this helps....
    Ron

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    422
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: 28 summicron, 50 summilux, or 35 FLE decisions, decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by rscheffler View Post
    Hope this helps....
    Very much so, Ron. I value your assessment. Better corner performance at wider apertures is a plus for me (longer exposure architecture/cityscape night shooting is something I do), so I need to weigh the extra cost of the SEM21 against that benefit. I'm usually shooting my ZM 21/2.8 at f8 to ensure good corner sharpness.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •