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Is using an M for paid work viable?

dude163

Active member
Hi all


Im now officially retired ( at 47!) and I need to do something to fill the time when the kids are in school.

Ive always wanted to do portraits and such in photography but never had the time, well now I do.

My question is this: Does anyone use a leica M for paid work? Im not going to be shooting for the NY Post or Time magazine, just my normal candid and as flattering as possible shots and hopefully some nature stuff in there also .

Right now all I have is a M8 with my cron 50 , summaron 35 , elmar 90 , and elmarit 135 ( all wonky vintage lenses I know) and I just wanted to touch base with you all

thanks for all the encouragement in previous posts BTW it meant a lot!

cheers


Robert
 

MikalWGrass

New member
Robert,

Retired at 48 and the kids are in school? Might be time to have more kids!!! Just kidding. The set up sounds fine to me. Some will say yes, others no. You lose nothing by trying it. I think most people want a great finished product and really don't care about anything else.

One of the guys who lurks and contributes on this and other fora, shot my wedding almost 9 years ago. I asked him to take the majority of the shots with his Leica film cameras. He obliged but I know he used digital as well. One of our favorite shots was shot with a digital camera. I won't give out his name but he is an amazing photographer. Even better, he used his own miles to fly to Florida.

Anyway, give it a shot. You have nothing to lose and since your time is your own, you will probably succeed where others did not. Good luck.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Robert
Good luck with the venture.
I've done paid work with both the M8 and the M9 . . . Not much use for sports, but otherwise it's fine. I can see the argument for getting an M9, but those lenses ought to be fine.

Good Luck
 

Hosermage

Active member
I think it may be the thing that sets you apart if you use it to your advantage. I wish you the best of luck!
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Congratulations on your retirement!

Don't make the commonest mistake of every photographer considering starting a business venture. Your equipment is fine.

Concentrate on quality images, not image quality, and your clients will be delighted. Start by doing the work you're already comfortable with using the equipment that you're already successful with. Buy new equipment when you want it, because you want it, or if you take up a new kind of work that requires different features or capabilities.
 
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Vivek

Guest
I would think it is all about the location.

Is it more profitable to open up a little grocery shop for a living or hoping for paid work with extraordinarily limited gear- only you can decide.

PS: No one would give a rat's a$$ if an image was obtained using Leica M camera or a P&S digicam.*

* Except some Leica nuts, of course.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Whether you get paid for your work has nothing to do with your camera, it is whether you are able to make a business. Success in professional photography has little to do with gear and talent.
 

dude163

Active member
Thanks all, Ive done some work that got me some cash in my pocket so thats what Ill continue doing, the disadvantage for me is: If I make too much extra money then it gets subtracted from my disability pension :(

Ill just keep taking photos for fun and enjoyment and if some people want work done for $$$ then Im all for it,

cheers

Robert
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Thanks all, Ive done some work that got me some cash in my pocket so thats what Ill continue doing, the disadvantage for me is: If I make too much extra money then it gets subtracted from my disability pension :(

Ill just keep taking photos for fun and enjoyment and if some people want work done for $$$ then Im all for it,

cheers

Robert
Well, the greatest thing about being an artist is no one cares if you work for nothing...
 

Sharokin

New member
Back when I shot for metro newspapers in the US all my wide shots were with a Leica M6 and MP. Canon's were used for anything longer than 50mm.
 

DDudenbostel

Active member
Let me make a suggestion you didn't ask for. I do not do work for individuals but have been a commercial photographer for almost forty six years doing only corporate work.

If you're going to start working for pay get a business license and set yourself up as an official business. Ok you might say I'm not going to do much work but think of it this way. If you set up a business you collect taxes for your city, county and state which goes into the school system, the roads, police, libraries and etc. The money you collect helps provide funds for education and to support the community. As a professional I see too many "photographers" operating out of the trunk of their car and working without collecting and paying taxes back into the community. This hurts your kids education and other services you want and depend on. Not only the above but it's hardly fair to the professionals that have dedicated their lives to the industry, doing it legal and depend on the income to support their families. The playing field should be level in my opinion. The net result of part time "pros" without licenses and paying taxes and working for pennies has resulted in the death of a once great industry by ten thousand cuts.

Do the community, your kids and the profession a favor and get a license and collect and pay the taxes due to the community. Price your work relative to the market not under cut everyone and think you're making a killing. this is one of the biggest mistakes a startup can make. You my think you're making a killing at $35/hr but most likely you're losing money. When you're in business every penny that goes into getting you to the job and back, a portion of your utilities, equipment purchased, repairs, insurance on gear, depreciation and wear on your car, tires, your tax preparer and etc are all part of the cost of doing business. You say I have the gear or I have to pay insurance anyway but it's still part of the cost of doing business and you'll need additional gear, repairs, and other unseen costs.

Also consider if you get caught by the state tax folks you're in deep you know what. My ex assistant got caught because he invoiced a client and didn't charge tax and the client was audited by the state tax folks. the came direct to my friend and let me tell you it was thousands of dollars in interest and penalties. I know several other designers and photographers that have been caught and it cost them in the five digits to settle and in each case the taxes not collected were under a thousand dollars. Times are so tight in the industry in my state that the professional organizations have launched a campaign to turn these folks int the state revenue department and are doing so. Your chances of getting caught are quite high now and it's not worth the risk IMO.

As to your question, I do shoot executive portraits for a couple of clients. I have shot with my M9 but really found it unsuitable in my opinion. I much prefer my Nikon D800 or Hasselblad digital. Framing is too inaccurate with the M cameras and seeing precise framing and a larger image in the VF is a real advantage. 10MP will be a big disadvantage too if you get an order for a large print. Also I find rendition of the M9 for portraits to be less pleasing then the CMOS of the Nikon, YMMV. The CCD in the Hasselblad renders skin much nicer than either. I might note too that I custom profile each camera for each lighting condition.

Hope you don't take offense but this is just my take as a long time pro that's seen the decay of the industry by exactly what you're about to do. Do it legal or don't do it.
 
The problem with the M8/M9 in the studio, stopped down under decent lights is that you'll have issues with moiré on synthetic fibres; it's pretty bad actually and leads to a lot of post. Apart from that there are some very fine pros around using M's. You might not want it to be your only camera unless you are hired for a specific look that you've made your own with M's. But if you're retired, why put yourself through the trauma of commercial work!! Better to be an amateur and use this time to do what you love most. Many people work, retire with big plans to do stuff and die within a couple of years, missing the opportunity to have enjoyed their passion when much younger.
 

DDudenbostel

Active member
Build a portfolio of fine art photographs and work to get into a gallery. Enter competitions and build your resume. It's much more rewarding to sell art then to be in the for hire world. I'm in six or seven galleries with some of my work and branched into another totally different and now in galleries with and museums as well. I sell a good bit of work now and plan to retire in two years to do nothing but the art.

When going commercial the dynamic of photography changes when money comes into the equation. It's a fast way to ruin a fun hobby. When your work is in galleries it's totally different than the commercial world and remains fun.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
...
Hope you don't take offense but this is just my take as a long time pro that's seen the decay of the industry by exactly what you're about to do. Do it legal or don't do it.
Points are well taken. I did it all legal too.

BUT, you don't have to go whole hog either, as a side business. To me it sounded like Robert was most interested in making a little money as supplemental to his retirement income, not in establishing a full-time career business. That lightens up the accounting, the tax payments, etc. Depending on where he lives, a little study of the tax code will tell what are the minimum requirements for making payments, etc. If you're not meeting those minimums, you can aggregate all of the income from a hobby business and put it on your annual personal income tax rather than have to do the full business accounting number.

It's all a matter of whatever your intent is, and then following the rules appropriately. No reason to do full-time business accounting work if you're not a full-time business.

G
 

dude163

Active member
Godfrey thats exactly what I meant .

Im always the default "photo guy" at parties and gatherings etc because everyone knows I have the * funky German camera* so Im taking shots anyway .

But sometimes someone says , hey you took nice shots of my kids at the Xmas party , can you take a few in the park/playground/garden etc and Ill pay you for your time. SO of course the answer is " Sure!" the tax laws here are that I can generate up to 10,000 and not have to register as a business ( maybe 9,999 and 10k is the cutoff , I dunno) .

I believe its to cover things like reselling old cars, items of high value etc etc

I wasnt planning on going into commercial work, after getting too stressed out to perform Air Traffic Control, the last thing I need is to do weddings! now that's stressful!



Another thing Ive noticed is that people who pay, pay for results, they dont care what you used as long as their pictures came out nice


thanks again for the input all, lots to think about!
 

dude163

Active member
Build a portfolio of fine art photographs and work to get into a gallery. Enter competitions and build your resume. It's much more rewarding to sell art then to be in the for hire world. I'm in six or seven galleries with some of my work and branched into another totally different and now in galleries with and museums as well. I sell a good bit of work now and plan to retire in two years to do nothing but the art.

When going commercial the dynamic of photography changes when money comes into the equation. It's a fast way to ruin a fun hobby. When your work is in galleries it's totally different than the commercial world and remains fun.
Now that sounds like something Id like to do!
 

DDudenbostel

Active member
When I refer to commercial I mean pay work.

Yes the art world is much more enjoyable. It does have its moments but it's generally fun. Openings for a new show make your head buzzzzz and you're pulled from one group to another with customers anxious to talk about your art. It's definitely a high.

The downside is even being in a gallery it's a business and has to be handled as so. My wife was a creative director for a retail clothing chain when I met her. After we were married she quit her job to paint full time. As a longtime business man I told her its either a hobby or a business. She decided to make it a business and is in several very fine galleries and doing quite well. Her work is in private and corporate collections around the world and even in the Yale special collections. The downside of art as a business is the expectations of the gallery and customers to produce new work. My wife's work is in high demand and stats booked on shows four years in advance plus galleries wanting additional work between shows. For her it's a full time job five days a week and often six days.

If you become successfully there is pressure but different than your old ATC job. Handle the stress right and it becomes a high not a low point.

The best of luck in your new venture.
 
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