Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 56

Thread: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

  1. #1
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    ashwinrao1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA - USA
    Posts
    3,276
    Post Thanks / Like

    The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Can you tell the difference? This is entirely nonscientific, harsh night lighting, shot wide open @ f/1.4, ISO 3200, wih the Leica MM (taking color out of the mix; I didn't do any editing to the basefiles; JPEGS uploaded directly from RAWS in LR4)....handheld, no tripod, yada yada

    The 3 Leica Asphericals
    --35 mm f/1.4 Summilux FLE
    --35 mm f/1.4 Summulux Asph (pre-FLE)
    --The legendedary 35 mm f/1.4 Double Aspherical (AA)

    I will disclose results and my thoughts in after a few responses are in....

    LENS 1


    LENS 2


    LENS 3
    Ashwin Rao
    Seattle, WA
    My Photography
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,674
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Hi Ashwin,

    I have considerable thoughts and observations regarding the comparison of these three images. I'll restrict my preliminary comments to the bokeh itself and reproduction of specular highlights, which seem to be the most prominent and obvious differences seen upon first glance of all three images. Obviously they are quite different in each case. I have my preferences but it will be interesting to read what others observe. Another apparent difference is tonality, assuming slight change in camera or subject distance didn't alter the lighting of the scene and/or subject?

    I realize it's may not be feasible, but if the opportunity arose whereby one could examine the full rez files, I think both less obvious details and well as many other image differences could be more readily observed and scrutinized (at least with regards to this one particular photographic scene).

    This particular comparison of yours is an excellent one for obvious reasons and I assume for all intent and purposes, the 35mm f1.4 ASPH double asph (AA) reproduces very similar to the later production 35mm f1.4 Asph (pre FLE)?

    Dave (D&A)

  3. #3
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Dave is correct about one thing (AA and FLE would be similar).

    My take:

    Lens 1 is AA

    Lens 2 is pre FLE

    Lens 3 is FLE

    Although difficult to see, it appears that Lens 1 photo shows an onion ring OOF highlight with interference (rings cutting into each other), indicative of more than one aspherical surface.

    Lens 3 photo shows a simple onion ring OOF highlight.

    Lens 2 shows no onion rings. This I would attribute to an unit focusing lens though it has (at least one) aspherical surface similar to Noctilux 50/1.2 and or Noct Nikkor.

    Sorry, Ed's (?) image does not help with discerning anything.

  4. #4
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,848
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    My guess:

    Lens 1 - FLE

    Lens 2 - 35 Lux ASPH (version 1)

    Lens 3 - AA

    I have handled three AAs in the past couple of years, how many did they actually manufacture? I know if I could only choose one Leica lens, it would be one of these three.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    CA, US
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    My wild guess:

    Non fle.
    AA
    Fle.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  6. #6
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    No idea which is which, but I'll take Lens #2 home with me.
    My Blog | Music | flickr
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    297
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I did similar test last year with FLE, AA, and pre-ASPH. Unfortunately I no longer had the pre-FLE ASPH. Based on my results I would guess:

    1. Pre-FLE (moderate onion ring)
    2. FLE (almost no onion ring)
    3. AA (most obvious onion ring)

    The color differences were quite obvious in my test. The FLE is the warmest, the AA cooler, and the pre-ASPH coolest. I would imagine the pre-FLE ASPH would be similar to the FLE or slightly cooler, between the FLE and the AA.

    Alan

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    281
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I'm guessing on the AA...

    1. AA
    2. Asph
    3. Pre Asph
    Home page: www.aphotovid.com

    Check out my gear blog!

  9. #9
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I'm with Maggie and Alan - I'd take lens #2 which looks like the FLE to me. It seems so well corrected.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    1) asph
    2) pre-asph
    3) AA

    Cool test, Ashwin ...

  11. #11
    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,202
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    496

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I would say one is the ASPH, two is the FLE, three is the aspherical original.

    This is just based on the smoothness of rendering. I always liked the original Aspheric, didn't like the ASPH when I owned it. I have had no experience with the recent FLE.

    Just a personal opinion, I think the 35mm Summicron ASPH renders much nicer than the last two Summilux lenses. With the better performing sensors of the latest and upcoming M, a f2 lens that is sharp wide open will do.

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,848
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Voters who indicated 'pre-ASPH', that's another 'lux altogether.

  13. #13
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,120
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    66

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Where else but Leicaville to people have multiple lenses with the same focal length? I'm an offender with no fewer the 8 in the range 35 to 50.

  14. #14
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I don't have first hand experience to any of these lens in depth but #1 does it the most for me. The transition in the bokeh isn't quite as smooth and is slightly busier but the subject rendering is the preferred one to my eyes. #2 seems to be the most "perfect" so I will assume that it's the FLE. #3 seems to have better bokeh and really sharp rendering still so I will assume that the Pre-FLE ASPH. All three are good but for different reasons.

    1) AA
    2) FLE
    3) ASPH
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  15. #15
    Member Seascape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    239
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    1. FLE

    2. ASPH

    3. Aspherical


    Based purely on the lights in the image, and the way the lights are rendered.
    My second guess would be 1 & 3 reversed with 2 the same.
    A very interesting test Ashwin.

  16. #16
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    ashwinrao1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA - USA
    Posts
    3,276
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Answers:

    1. FLE
    2. ASPH
    3. AA


    Surprising, hun? Monza (Robert) & Seascape got it right! I hope to borrow the AA again, and do the test in other setting. I have found that the ASPH (pre FLE) handles highlights the best (without targets). These images don't really provide much info on how OOF rendering is in less contrasty settings...

    I seem to remember around 1500 or so AA's being manufactured. The copy that I tested is NOT mine, though I have a good friend from whom I can borrow it readily.

    In this test, for what it's worth, the FLE and AA seem to handle highlights and, in particular, specular highlights, very similarly....

    Objectively, I have heard that the glass in the FLE and ASPH lenses is very similar, and MTF's bear this out to some degree. However, subjectively, the FLE seems to be a bit more contrasty, with a sharp fall off between subject and OOF. The ASPH seems to have a gentler OOF rendition, while the FLE seems subjectively sharper to me....Now that I have both back in my kit, I'll be able to test these out more carefully, and hopefully borrow the AA more to do more tests....

    Happy shooting, folks
    Ashwin Rao
    Seattle, WA
    My Photography

  17. #17
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Very interesting - I have to say that I found the FLE rendering of highlights surprising vs the ASPH which seemed less 'digital' or distorted. Just goes to show what works best for certain types of situations and why people end up with multiple 35's & 50's.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  18. #18
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    ashwinrao1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA - USA
    Posts
    3,276
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    By the way, if anyone wishes to let me borrow some other 35's, I'd love to do some sort of 35 mm lens blowout test on the M9 and MM down the road, in various lightings and backgrounds...could be fun!
    Ashwin Rao
    Seattle, WA
    My Photography

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I think you should have told Ed to stand still, so the lighting on the second shot was the same on the other two.
    Vivek- I learned something about Onion Rings I was not previously aware of.
    . . . . and they all look fine to me!

    Time For Bed

    Just this guy you know

  20. #20
    Member Seascape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    239
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I would expect the ASPH to have a smoother look than the FLE (unit focus vs floating element), while being essentially the same optical layout.

    While the floating element design would optimise corrections at the point of focus (including contrast), it would compromise the the OOF image (bokeh).

    It will be interesting to see if that proves to be the case. Looking forward to future testing Ashwin.

  21. #21
    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    363
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Ashwin - if you ever find yourself in Calgary, I have a ZM Biogon f/2, Summarit and MS Optical STP you can test.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    819
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Thanks Ashwin. The AA is pretty much up there with mermaids and unicorns, so this three-way comparison is a quite unique occurrence!

    In terms of pure lens testing, black & white hides too many sins such as color fringing in the bokeh and chromatic aberration at the edges / wide apertures. I think B&W is a far more forgiving medium (for testing purposes).

    If you ever decide to test the 35's again, another interesting comparison would be their T-stop. I would expect the FLE to perform the best since it's the newest. Some flare testing could also be interesting. I've noticed some internal reflections with my FLE. I don't have the pre FLE anymore, so I haven't been able to see if it would have done better or not.

  23. #23
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    seakayaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    2,889
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    By the way, if anyone wishes to let me borrow some other 35's, I'd love to do some sort of 35 mm lens blowout test on the M9 and MM down the road, in various lightings and backgrounds...could be fun!
    Ashwin, I have Ernst Leitz GmbH Wetzlar ~ Summaron 3.5cm f3.5 (1953) that I can let borrow for the lens blowout test.

    . . . . . late afternoon shot from this past August.



    of course this was with the M6TTL and Ilford Pan-F Plus 50.


    I think it would look quite nice on the MM!

  24. #24
    Senior Member Hosermage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    a bit late, but as I was looking, I was hoping #2 was not the AA, because I don't like any onion rings. As for other 35's, I would love to see the Voigtlander 35 f/1.2 added to the mix because I really liked its rendering while I had it, but never did got a chance to use it on the M9.
    David Young
    My journey into Leica: LeicaLux.com

  25. #25
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Ihave a 35/1.2 Nokton II and a 35 Summicron ASPH... They're outta the country with me right now but perhaps when I'm back we can arrange something.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  26. #26
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,674
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Very interesting - I have to say that I found the FLE rendering of highlights surprising vs the ASPH which seemed less 'digital' or distorted. Just goes to show what works best for certain types of situations and why people end up with multiple 35's & 50's.
    Unfortunately I wasn't able to get back to this thread again in time to post my guesses before Ashwin reveled the order. One aspect that didn't surprise me was the pleasing bokeh of pic #2 (the ASPH) vs. the FLE. Having compared the two extensively (in color) when the FLE was first released, it was evident the two lenses performed quite differently, each having characteristics that might appeal to one group or another. Personally I found the ASPH to have smoother more desirable bokeh and a lovely more gentle rendering albeit with more field curvature, giving rise to soft edges and corners unless stopped down. It's also not quite as sharp as the FLE and of course samples have varying degrees of focus shift, often dependent on what f-stop was picked to have the lens optimized to. I personally found f2 or f2.4 to be ideal as a good compromise for optimization when having the ASPH adjusted specifically for focus shift.

    I've shot with the original AA for a brief time, primarily on film and a few images with the M8, but unfortunately not at the same time as the ASPH version in order to make a direct comparison between the two. I've often wondered what a good comparison would look like, AA vs. the ASPH on a M9.

    I agree with those that suggested that a comparison of all three shot in color would yield many additional differences, both strengths and weaknesses and as I mentioned in my original post in this thread, a look at the full rez MM file would delineate other marked differences between all three lenses.

    The VC 35mm f1.2 II like many other 35mm would be interesting to throw into the mix. The VC 35mm f1.2 in my opinion has many of the desirable characteristics found in the 35mm f1.4 ASPH, especially when shot at f1.4 & f2. Thanks again Ashwin!

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 23rd December 2012 at 07:38.

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think you should have told Ed to stand still, so the lighting on the second shot was the same on the other two.
    Vivek- I learned something about Onion Rings I was not previously aware of.
    . . . . and they all look fine to me!

    Time For Bed
    Thanks, Jono. I agree that because of the size they do not distract. Upclose, under different lights, it could be a different story.

    BTW, (AFAIK) the 35/1.4 FLE and the 35/1.4 ASPH use a molded aspherical element (not ground out, which may be the case in AA) which makes the process less expensive.

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Northampton, Ma
    Posts
    532
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Thanks for this Ashwin, and I look forward to more testing. I liked #2 the best (though as Jono pointed out the lighting gives it some advantage). I was pleased it was the pre-FLE as this is one of my favorite lenses and is my most used. (My only other 35 is the version IV summicron).Focus shift on my copy is so minimal that I've never had it diminish any image after 7 years of regular use. It has enough pop wide open and has a smoothness in transitions and in bokeh that I find very appealing. best....Peter

  29. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    cool, ashwin. i was one who butchered the test, perhaps because i was doing it with a child on my lap (ha). in retrospect, i guess i would have thought the asph and AA would be more similar, but (to my eye) the FLE and asph seem more similar (at least in OOF).

  30. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Too late to edit. I meant the AA and FLE seem to have more in common.

  31. #31
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    ashwinrao1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA - USA
    Posts
    3,276
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by ramosa View Post
    Too late to edit. I meant the AA and FLE seem to have more in common.
    THat's exactly what I thought! At least with this particular test

    Ashwin
    Ashwin Rao
    Seattle, WA
    My Photography

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belg´e
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Ashwin,

    net time i'm in the states (late january/february), i'll bring you my 35 Summilux pre-asph to add to the mix.

    i also have an old v.1 8-element Cron, but i gather you want to keep this all in the (Lux) family.

    (still sighing about the AA which has been on my lust list forever)

  33. #33
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    ashwinrao1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA - USA
    Posts
    3,276
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Thanks, Cam. It'd be great to meet you. I am waiting on a 8 element 'cron (very much excited to use that lens on the M monochrom). It'd be fantastic to put up the Lux lenses against each other and to test out the 'crons on the MM and M9 or M to see how these lenses render and resolve.....The AA is a very cool lens. I wish I had one, but feel extravagent for having the 2 others (FLE, ASPH). The AA is truly more of a collector but has its own look. All the asph lenses seem to be of higher contrast (both micro and macro)...
    Ashwin Rao
    Seattle, WA
    My Photography

  34. #34
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I'd love to see my 1st version 50 Summilux on the MM. I just know it'd be killer.
    My Blog | Music | flickr
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  35. #35
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    ashwinrao1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA - USA
    Posts
    3,276
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Gosh, me too. It's onther lens I have never tried on the MM. So far, my fav 50 on the MM has been the 50 mm Rigid Summicron (V2), followed closely by the C-Sonnar 50 for more character ....

    I did not like the 50 lux pre-asph (v2, E43), as I couldn't reliably acheive focus, and for some reason, bokeh looked a bit wonky to me... The 50 lux v1 is a bit harder to get in nice condition, but I bet it'd be great...
    Ashwin Rao
    Seattle, WA
    My Photography

  36. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belg´e
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Ashwin, the 8-element Cron is magic on the Monochrom! i think you'll be really very happy

    interesting about the 50 Luxes... i have a cusp v.2 (old styling, in-between glass supposedly, c.1962) and v.3 (the close-focusing one). i've been away from my lenses so there's a lot of testing for me to do... and, i'm afraid, old habits die hard -- the sun goes down and i pull out my 1975 E58 Nocti (which has the distinction of looking astonishing on any camera i've tried it on, film or digital, crop or full frame).

    i'm honestly excited to try the 35 pre-asph, though, as it was one of my favourite lenses on the Epson and the M3 and was a good enough specimen that Steve (from Steve's camera) would have bought it off me if i'd been interested. i didn't feel the love on the M8 or the M9, but i have a feeling it will sing on the Monochrom.

    that's the reason the AA was always on my list -- i felt it had the magic feel of the pre-asph with the close focusing (an important issue with tiny tables in europe) of the Asph.

    as far as 50's, i will have to pull out my old C-Sonnar... unfortunately, i had it fine-tuned to my Epson and it hasn't played nice with anything else

    regardless, i'll be in touch. i'm not good at tests like you, but it's always lovely to have someone show the true grit of a lens like you do!

  37. #37
    Senior Member JoelM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    San Diego, CA USA
    Posts
    264
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I have a Summilux circa 1976 you can borrow whenever you want. I'll just ship it up to you.

    Cheers,

    Joel

  38. #38
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Gosh, me too. It's onther lens I have never tried on the MM. So far, my fav 50 on the MM has been the 50 mm Rigid Summicron (V2), followed closely by the C-Sonnar 50 for more character ....

    I did not like the 50 lux pre-asph (v2, E43), as I couldn't reliably acheive focus, and for some reason, bokeh looked a bit wonky to me... The 50 lux v1 is a bit harder to get in nice condition, but I bet it'd be great...
    Well, if you and your MM are anywhere near Lincoln, NE (maybe the Huskers need a new physician?) you're more than welcome to borrow the ol' 'Lux and/or my 1951 Summaron 35/3.5.

  39. #39
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Interseting, I have done the same and owned the aspherical, ASPH and borrowed an FLE from a close friend. I was surprised the order was FLE,ASPH, AA it looked to me AA, ASPH, FLE but only one shot and I have hundreds.

    For me the FLE is wonderfully sharp but has a very fast transition from in to out of focus and often (not always) some confusion to the bokeh, a little broken/harsh. Also I found this a little flatter in it's presentation. This was my least favourite.

    The ASPH was my second favourite, a superb lens, combining modern sharpness with a stunning bokeh that is soft, classic and very appealing. This lens for me paints in a way I really like.

    Then the ASPHERICAL, very interesting and for me amazing. This lens has a depth and weight that is special. The tones for B&W are sublime and colours rich but cool, less 'pink' of modern glass and with slightly warmer classic tones. The bokeh is looser and less tidy than the APSH, but is has movement and interest. the sharpness is every bit as good as the FLE and I simply love it. The Vignetting is quite high. But this lens is everything I look for, it has a magic to the image depth, the in focus has the ability to look like you have stopped time and the bokeh compliments this with some movement and character with a superb transition from in to out of focus.

    I ended up keeping the aspherical, I just couldn't sell it. I bought it at a price I knew I could sell on and not lose. But I just couldn't part with it......

    If I only had one lens, this would be it. Leica make some special glass, this for me is the pinnacle of 35's.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  40. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belg´e
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by IWC Doppel View Post
    Then the ASPHERICAL, very interesting and for me amazing. This lens has a depth and weight that is special. The tones for B&W are sublime and colours rich but cool, less 'pink' of modern glass and with slightly warmer classic tones. The bokeh is looser and less tidy than the APSH, but is has movement and interest. the sharpness is every bit as good as the FLE and I simply love it. The Vignetting is quite high. But this lens is everything I look for, it has a magic to the image depth, the in focus has the ability to look like you have stopped time and the bokeh compliments this with some movement and character with a superb transition from in to out of focus.

    I ended up keeping the aspherical, I just couldn't sell it. I bought it at a price I knew I could sell on and not lose. But I just couldn't part with it......

    If I only had one lens, this would be it. Leica make some special glass, this for me is the pinnacle of 35's.
    argh, shush!

    i am still beating myself up for not holding out until an AA came up when they were still, cough, affordable... and now i know that i will never get one because the collectors have put them out of my reach

    the pre-asph Lux, though, used to be my favourite lenses but i started neglecting it when i became obsessed with getting the .7m close-focusing... i'm really looking forward to playing with it again, though, as i have many of the same feelings about it you have about the AA.

  41. #41
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    argh, shush!

    i am still beating myself up for not holding out until an AA came up when they were still, cough, affordable... and now i know that i will never get one because the collectors have put them out of my reach

    the pre-asph Lux, though, used to be my favourite lenses but i started neglecting it when i became obsessed with getting the .7m close-focusing... i'm really looking forward to playing with it again, though, as i have many of the same feelings about it you have about the AA.
    The AA bokeh, reminds me of the 50 pre-asph lux with a little more movement. If it helps I have a 35 f2.8 Summaron which is lovely too and I also use a MkIV cron that is superb at f4.0 where for me that lens has some magic.

    Keep looking and you might find a bargain. What really does it for me is the ability to paint in almost 3D, a bit like the mkIV at f4.0 but more so and with greater clarity and add some early mandler style bokeh. Your right its a darn shame they are collectable

  42. #42
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    PS I still want to own and try an 8 element 35 Summicron and a 50 Noctilux f1.0

    Very interested in views of the E58 vs E60

  43. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belg´e
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by IWC Doppel View Post
    The AA bokeh, reminds me of the 50 pre-asph lux with a little more movement. If it helps I have a 35 f2.8 Summaron which is lovely too and I also use a MkIV cron that is superb at f4.0 where for me that lens has some magic.

    Keep looking and you might find a bargain. What really does it for me is the ability to paint in almost 3D, a bit like the mkIV at f4.0 but more so and with greater clarity and add some early mandler style bokeh. Your right its a darn shame they are collectable
    i'm ashamed to admit i have to go out and shoot my 35 pre-asph again before i comment on the bokeh in comparison (i mostly shot it on my Epson R-D1 so i need to look at on FF)... i do remember it being more pleasant than the Asph, though...

    when you say the AA bokeh reminds you of the 50 pre-asph Lux, are you talking about the E43 or E46?

    i will keep on looking, btw, but i'm not holding my breath... a lot of people know i'm looking for a "user" lens, but the prices people have been asking for even those is absurd... if you see one for a reasonable price, please holler!

    Quote Originally Posted by IWC Doppel View Post
    PS I still want to own and try an 8 element 35 Summicron and a 50 Noctilux f1.0

    Very interested in views of the E58 vs E60
    the 8 element Cron is exquisite! it has the magic 3D look you speak of and capable of beautiful but not distracting bokeh (depending on f-stop). it is a low contrast lens and produces beautiful pastels and/or lush b/w and is capable of picking up minute details and changes in tones... truly a stupendous lens that has finally met its digital soulmate in the Monochrom.

    as for the Noctilux, i am all for E58, especially if you can find a very early serial number (where there are rumours of different glass used). the collectors Nocti is the f/1.2 and it had the double glass (like your AA) and a very painterly effect. the early f/1 Noctis retained much of this character, imo, without the obscene price tag of the former. open, it may be a bit softer than the E60 but it doesn't really bother me. if i'm shooting f/1, it usually means that my eyes could be the issue as much as the lens -- i.e., no light to focus in and the bokeh can be a bit unpredictable, but it always thrills me.

    it is the one of the two lenses i own that has thrilled me on *any* camera i have used it on!
    my flickr
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  44. #44
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    I have an E43 pre asph summilux and quite interested in a E46 to get the closer focus, I have read a little about the differences, but would be interested to know more.

    I missed (Well the guy pulled out) a nice E58 noctilux recently, I'll keep looking.

    A piccy that shows the bokeh at it's wildest f1.4. I just love the bokeh of this lens and I also love the vignetting which I leave well alone. Very little post processing on this shot.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  45. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belg´e
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by IWC Doppel View Post
    I have an E43 pre asph summilux and quite interested in a E46 to get the closer focus, I have read a little about the differences, but would be interested to know more.

    I missed (Well the guy pulled out) a nice E58 noctilux recently, I'll keep looking.
    the E43 i have is a very early Chrome version with scalloped focusing so it's kind of another 'tweener glass. it has low contrast but still very sharp and seems to have that lovely Leica glow (it was my very first Leica lens and i chose it after trying a bunch)... the E46 i have does not have quite the same character. i love the close-focusing, but i miss the etherial quality of the E43. in hindsight, i think i may have been happier with the 50 Lux Asph so i could have one "perfect" lens.

    (mind you, with my style of photography, i can make *any* lens look less than perfect )

    i do have a personal fondness for my E58, but the f/1 in all its forms is pretty incredible. i've always been amazed at how it finds light and shadows when there seems to be none -- so maybe the E60 might even be slightly better in this regard? i didn't set out to buy an E58, but... a good deal is a good deal (if you find one) and i think you'll love f/1!
    my flickr
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  46. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belg´e
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    IWC Doppel (and anyone else interested, Kristian Dowling has a samples from a bunch of fast (expensive) lenses on Steve Huff's site.

    there are factual errors and i don't necessarily agree with his conclusions (nor did he shoot any night shots), but it may be of interest to you.

  47. #47
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    IWC Doppel (and anyone else interested, Kristian Dowling has a samples from a bunch of fast (expensive) lenses on Steve Huff's site.

    there are factual errors and i don't necessarily agree with his conclusions (nor did he shoot any night shots), but it may be of interest to you.
    Thanks, interesting. Shame they are all so expensive. I didnt think the F1 was 4th in terms of sharpness. Not enough to see which would be my preference, probably f1 Noctilux

  48. #48
    Member erick.boileau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Germany / France
    Posts
    247
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    No idea , but my favorite is #2
    Leica M

  49. #49
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,864
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    This just further cements my opinion that I'm not so much a fan of the FLE. I remember the first set of photos you posted, Ashwin - and had drawn that conclusion back then already.

    And with the ASPH's focus shift, it makes me appreciate the Nokton that much more... I just wish it were a bit smaller, lighter and had a finger tab!

    #2, IMO - is clearly the "winner" here.

  50. #50
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,674
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    This just further cements my opinion that I'm not so much a fan of the FLE. I remember the first set of photos you posted, Ashwin - and had drawn that conclusion back then already.

    And with the ASPH's focus shift, it makes me appreciate the Nokton that much more... I just wish it were a bit smaller, lighter and had a finger tab!

    #2, IMO - is clearly the "winner" here.
    Yes, The Nokton is exceptionally good, all things considered. I often wish they could have made the redesigned (Ver II) a f1.4 lens, which would have probably reduced it's size significantly, but in the process kept most of it's other optical attributes. It's different than the other three lenses tested here...and when it's performance between approx f2 and f5.6 is evaluated, it's sort of a cross between the Lux ASPH and the Cron Asph, depending what f-stop is used. At f1.2 and f1.4, it's look is different.

    Other than that, from Aswin's posted three images, I too prefer #2's rendering.

    Dave (D&A)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •