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Thread: An interesting article in the Guardian

  1. #101
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Since you are here in this forum, unless you mean what you see displayed as what you characterize as "average" photography, there is no need to put them down in order to elevate some unknown (to this forum that is) as hyper talented.

    Let me be specific in saying that none of the images shown in the blog article, i find worthy of any of the adolatory adjectives you use.
    Look at her website.

  2. #102
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Some fabulous images there (top shots - sarah lee photo), no doubt.

    None point a Leica though.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    ist that a different sarah lee?

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Some fabulous images there (top shots - sarah lee photo), no doubt.

    None point a Leica though.
    Stuff on her website does look to be rangefinder type work ... and even if it isn't, so what? We use what we like, and apparently she likes the Leica ME.

    -Marc

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Indeed. My point is that this does not allow anyone to diss the images posted here or to say something negative about appreciative comments unless they have specific reasons to be critical of the images they see here. Sarah Lee's images alone do not warrant such blanket statements.

  6. #106
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris C View Post
    So :
    In terms of 'Professional' financial reward I wouldn't be surprised if she were just 'getting by'. In terms of the quality of her work I'd say she's a bloody good Pro. In 'Pro' photography now one can be good, and broke.

    .............. Chris
    HI Chris
    I quite agree - and I also know a number of seriously impoverished pros in the UK - but actually, the point here is that NB23 is simply trying a wind up job - he wound me up first, then Shashin, now he's winding you up. Perfectly legitimate, but ultimately rather tiring.


    Vivek - I don't think that Chris was dissing the images posted here specifically- rather images on the internet generally - although I'm sure he can clarify

    all the best

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    The digital era heralded the end of many pro photographers' careers in the UK. When people still shot film, pro photographers did quite well in the UK (don't know about elsewhere). Now it's digital, the newspapers and media here expect top quality images almost for free. Lots of people send in the shots taken on their iPhones or compacts, hoping for a moments limelight. Alternatively they get pictures from agencies. As a result, the prices paid for PJ images has fallen through the floor. One of my friends (a pro) was offered 5 by a National newspaper for a series of shots at a pop festival, that they were writing up!

    I dont think any national newspaper in the UK now has any staff photographers. They're pretty much all freelancers. That ain't easy.

  8. #108
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ...I also know a number of seriously impoverished pros in the UK...
    I thought being badly paid was part of the thing about being an artist. That, and cutting your ear off. We kind of don't recognize that many of the artist in history had another way to pay the bills.

    But that is really the crime of trying to work in a creative discipline, especially one that does not involve selling stuff, you don't get paid very much. Sometimes you get better pay serving at restaurants. But having bad pay has an upside--you don't get taxed much either.

    Bring me poverty that I can afford...
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  9. #109
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by topoxforddoc View Post
    The digital era heralded the end of many pro photographers' careers in the UK. When people still shot film, pro photographers did quite well in the UK (don't know about elsewhere). Now it's digital, the newspapers and media here expect top quality images almost for free. Lots of people send in the shots taken on their iPhones or compacts, hoping for a moments limelight. Alternatively they get pictures from agencies. As a result, the prices paid for PJ images has fallen through the floor. One of my friends (a pro) was offered 5 by a National newspaper for a series of shots at a pop festival, that they were writing up!

    I dont think any national newspaper in the UK now has any staff photographers. They're pretty much all freelancers. That ain't easy.
    Interesting, isn't it? The quality of phone images have gone up amazingly well.

    Also, how many printed newspapers (the ones that are not free) will survive for how long is open to speculation.

    We have come a long way in terms of some of the newspapers supporting real explorations (of the likes of Charles Darwin, or of the Egyptian Pyramids) to 5 UKP/picture pop-festival images.

  10. #110
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Also, how many printed newspapers (the ones that are not free) will survive for how long is open to speculation.
    HI Vivek - I quite agree. . . The Guardian though is a good example of a paper which is reputable, intelligent, has good writers, excellent photographers, is still printed, and also has a respected and vibrant internet presence.

    I hear it doesn't pay it's photographers very well though

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Vivek - I quite agree. . . The Guardian though is a good example of a paper which is reputable, intelligent, has good writers, excellent photographers, is still printed, and also has a respected and vibrant internet presence.

    I hear it doesn't pay it's photographers very well though
    Jono,

    I don't think they have any staff photographers any more. My friend, Lara (with the M9 & 24 lux), told me that her friends, who were Guardian staffers, were laid off some years ago. I think they now rely on freelancers and the usual agencies eg AP, Reuters etc (like the other national papers).

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Vivek - I quite agree. . . The Guardian though is a good example of a paper which is reputable, intelligent, has good writers, excellent photographers, is still printed, and also has a respected and vibrant internet presence.
    Guardian News & Media (essentially The Guardian and Observer operations) is losing almost 1m per week and is only kept afloat by the profitable parts of the wider Guardian Media Group (e.g. Auto Trader magazine). Even so, GMG as a whole still made a substantial loss last year so it is questionable what the future holds for The Guardian as print sales decline further.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Chris
    I quite agree - and I also know a number of seriously impoverished pros in the UK - but actually, the point here is that NB23 is simply trying a wind up job - he wound me up first, then Shashin, now he's winding you up. Perfectly legitimate, but ultimately rather tiring.
    Wind up job? Not really.

    Well, it appears that I was absolutely right: she indeed was paying back a favor to Leica. A blatant marketing stunt. It's funny that instead of acknowledging this you are trying to pass me as a troll. it doesn't work.

    And about the poverty issue it's clear that it would have taken the same amount of money that it took her to buy that Leica then to buy a Pro Nikon Kit. So I don't understand the monetary arguments that are supposed to make her look brave in her poverty.

  14. #114
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    Wind up job? Not really.

    Well, it appears that I was absolutely right: she indeed was paying back a favor to Leica. A blatant marketing stunt. .
    I'm dreadfully sorry to point this out, but unless you've got documentation that proves that she was paid or given promotional consideration for her blog post, your post is, sadly, at best, defamatory and possibly libel. Of course, if there's evidence backing your claims, then no harm, no foul, but I think it's best if we consider our words carefully and treat other photographers as we'd like to be treated.

    Obviously, this post is not legal advice and is for entertainment purposes only. Please, consult a licensed attorney for any legal questions or advice.
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    I'm dreadfully sorry to point this out, but unless you've got documentation that proves that she was paid or given promotional consideration for her blog post, your post is, sadly, at best, defamatory and possibly libel. Of course, if there's evidence backing your claims, then no harm, no foul, but I think it's best if we consider our words carefully and treat other photographers as we'd like to be treated.

    Obviously, this post is not legal advice and is for entertainment purposes only. Please, consult a licensed attorney for any legal questions or advice.
    Someone in this thread that knows her personally already let the cat out of the bag. I'm simply amazed that you and others are so enamored and hypnotized by the Leica brand that you all lose common sense when it comes to rationalizing. I'm portrayed as the "big bad Leica basher". I'm such a bad boy.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    Someone in this thread that knows her personally already let the cat out of the bag.
    Sorry - I missed that - please can you point me to the message? Are you muddling up Lara with Sarah?
    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    I'm simply amazed that you and others are so enamored and hypnotized by the Leica brand that you all lose common sense when it comes to rationalizing. I'm portrayed as the "big bad Leica basher". I'm such a bad boy.
    I thought you were libelling Sarah Lee? - obviously Leica would (quite legitimately) hand cameras around to people wherever it seemed to be to their advantage . . . .just like they did for topoxforddoc's friend Lara on page 2.

    The issue is not whether it's legitimate for Leica to give people cameras (of course it is) - it's whether you have the right to accuse Sarah Lee of lying in a Guardian article (by her saying that she bought a camera that you say she was given)
    Last edited by jonoslack; 7th January 2013 at 13:32.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Obviously, this post is not legal advice and is for entertainment purposes only. Please, consult a licensed attorney for any legal questions or advice.


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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    .... none of the images shown in the blog article, i find worthy of any of the adolatory adjectives you use.
    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Look at her website.
    I'm a day late looking in to this thread. But my reply, if a little late, is exactly the same as Marc's :

    Look at her website.

    ............... Chris
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Chris..... NB23 is simply trying a wind up job - he wound me up first, then Shashin, now he's winding you up. Perfectly legitimate, but ultimately rather tiring.....
    Hi Jono - Us old Camborne Tech. boys sticking together eh? Thanks for the support, but I long ago stopped being wound up by people on forums, however I did feel a need to state my contrary view to Mr. NB23's. Sarah Lee has talent, I find talent invigorating, I know that talent needs support, I'm happy to be supportive and thank you for bringing her work to our attention.

    ............. Chris
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Nice article, okay cake, nice camera

    I believe her

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris C View Post
    Hi Jono - Us old Camborne Tech. boys sticking together eh?
    . . . . . . . Camborne Tech? Where's that

    Chris, I'm sorry, I should know who you are? But I don't (alzheimer's strikes again) . . . . . although perhaps jonoslack is a bit more explicit that Chris C. . . added to which, my avatar was taken about then!

    For others - I was at Camborne tech between . . .1968 and 1970? In the deep dark days of Deep Purple and the Pink Fairies (and much to many chemicals).

    Chris - reveal yourself!

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Sorry - I missed that - please can you point me to the message? Are you muddling up Lara with Sarah?
    I don't think you missed anything. He seems to have mixed up two different people.

  23. #123
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Sorry to come to this so late. Just for the record I definitely in no way was sponsered by Leica to write that piece in the Guardian. I had my arm twisted by the picture editor to provide a blog about the camera I'd been carrying everywhere with me recently. I had never written any kind of blog/ journalistic piece before which may explain how amateur hour ish my prose was. I was asked to write about "why I love it", and then the sub editors seemed to edit in to a "worth the money" piece. I'm slightly embarrassed about that aspect of it. But I can definitively promise that I was not sponsered in any way. Actually I regretted the whole thing - I'm far too thin skinned to cope with the comments etc that came after. But it did have a silver lining in that Leica have since offered to lend [LEND not give!!] me an M9 and a couple of different lenses to use on a project I'm about to do in the US, so given that it probably was worth the hassle. Anyway, I enjoyed reading this thread. And yes, my name is a very cake-y name, but in the 1970's int he uk [when I was born] that brand wasn't known over here. Heigh ho..
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah Lee View Post
    But it did have a silver lining in that Leica have since offered to lend [LEND not give!!] me an M9 and a couple of different lenses to use on a project I'm about to do in the US, so given that it probably was worth the hassle.
    Awesome!

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    another convert . . . .

    Sarah Lee gets a Leica ME
    I just hate the dark green paint. I think steel grey was the best color for M9.

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