An interesting article in the Guardian

[Vivek]

NB23, Your reasoning is completely off the wall. If Leica is doing a subliminal advertising, like you contend, I would only hope that Sarah Lee gets an entire set of new M lenses to go with her M-E. It is quite obvious that she is one of the Leica nuts. :ROTFL:

 

[NB23]

My reasoning is absolutely 21st century.
This article is a very careful product placement in a paper where each cubic centimeter has a price (monetary, political, ideological, lobbyist...). The same reason why you have James Bond drinking a Twenty Eight Million Sterling Pounds Pint of Heineken in the latest movie.

 

[Vivek]

That is an old ploy and nothing new. Kodak gave 1 billion $ (no less) to call the Oscar venue by Kodak's name. What happened? Oscar shows still go on and keep making big money.

Again, if your assertion is true, I really hope that Sarah Lee gets more than the urge to buy an used 50/1.4 Lux to go with the M-E.

 

[Hosermage]

NB23, not sure if you're against the paper or against Leica? Will the article be any more truthful to you if she was praising the D800 or RX1?

 

[NB23]

I am not "against" anything. Plug in any camera brand name and there you have a marketing pitch for that company.

 

[Shashin]

I am not "against" anything. Plug in any camera brand name and there you have a marketing pitch for that company.

So you review books and movies without the title? You talk about an artist without revealing who they are? If you go to a national park, you should not reveal which one it is? So writing an article about a particular camera that happened to inspire you, you should leave out what the actual camera was?

Sorry, you are really making a stretch. Granted I did not find the article very interesting and Sarah Lee sounds like a bakery, but was just a piece on how one camera (which apparently should not be named) made an impact on a photographer (and there are so many digital rangefinders out there [and most people would know what it is]). Since this is a professional photographer (with an unfortunate name), it does provide folks outside the profession with some insight. I think if Leica was really influencing this very small newspaper, it would have done a bit more than requiring the author to go out and buy their low-end model rather than simply giving her a new M--that would hardly be an expense for the company.

Relax. Just enjoy the piece for what it is.

 

[Shashin]

Besides, even if it is a shameless pug for Leica, why would you not want to support the manufacturers that make the tools we use? The more appreciation of the high-end of the field, the better off we are or everything we will have with be Canon Rebels and Sony Nexs. Their success is ours...

 

[Vivek]

Thank goodness that isn't the case and there are always half baked Leica wannabees.

 

[NB23]

Because, to me, that shameless plug comes across as a big insult. It is an insult and we should all be insulted, IMO, at such a low level of marketing. She taljs abou tthe materials used and that it's 20% cheaper then the M9 anf so on.
This is the society in which we are living. Everything for a buck.
I've seen my share of particularly bitter media injustice. And in my PJ work, this is something I'm working on, telling the truth. As a PJ, if I start talking about my equipment what does this tell you? Probably that I'm not a serious PJ. Of course, I love to fondle my Leicas and I indulge in doing it. But that's on forums. In the real life, in my exhibitions, when talking to people and editors and other photographers, I always remain silent about my equipment. I'm so silent about it that random people who want to talk about equipment think that I have no clue. They start teaching me about aperture and ISO control... I am probably the worst person to talk about equipment in person. I get caught by a feeling of silliness. Conversations like "the summilux asph is so sharp compared to the pre-asph bokeh king, and the micro-contrast Leica glow..." just doesn't sound right. In fact, this is where you separate the pros from the amateurs.
And thus article was clearly aimed to the soccer-mom's husbands out there. The "walkabout" crowd with a starbuck coffee in one hand.
I agree, it's all good as long as one clearly sees what it's about.

I am a die-hard Leicaphile but I stay silent about my equipment. It is completely irrelevant. In forums, ok. But in a newspaper? I will go as far as to believe that it's a text sent by Leica's marketing dept. No respectable PJ would write such a text by him/herself. Not in a newspaper.

Ok, let's all love our Leicas now. I'll go print some 20x24s on my focomat IIc.

 

[Shashin]

...and there are always half baked Leica wannabees.

I know. The ridiculous "rangefinder style" of the Nex 7/6 is just so transparent.

BTW, I thought you were ignoring me...

 

[Shashin]

Because, to me, that shameless plug comes across as a big insult. It is an insult and we should all be insulted, IMO, at such a low level of marketing. She taljs abou tthe materials used and that it's 20% cheaper then the M9 anf so on.
This is the society in which we are living. Everything for a buck.
I've seen my share of particularly bitter media injustice. And in my PJ work, this is something I'm working on, telling the truth. As a PJ, if I start talking about my equipment what does this tell you? Probably that I'm not a serious PJ. Of course, I love to fondle my Leicas and I indulge in doing it. But that's on forums. In the real life, in my exhibitions, when talking to people and editors and other photographers, I always remain silent about my equipment. I'm so silent about it that random people who want to talk about equipment think that I have no clue. They start teaching me about aperture and ISO control... I am probably the worst person to talk about equipment in person. I get caught by a feeling of silliness. Conversations like "the summilux asph is so sharp compared to the pre-asph bokeh king, and the micro-contrast Leica glow..." just doesn't sound right. In fact, this is where you separate the pros from the amateurs.
And thus article was clearly aimed to the soccer-mom's husbands out there. The "walkabout" crowd with a starbuck coffee in one hand.
I agree, it's all good as long as one clearly sees what it's about.

I am a die-hard Leicaphile but I stay silent about my equipment. It is completely irrelevant. In forums, ok. But in a newspaper? I will go as far as to believe that it's a text sent by Leica's marketing dept. No respectable PJ would write such a text by him/herself. Not in a newspaper.

Ok, let's all love our Leicas now. I'll go print some 20x24s on my focomat IIc.

That is called "projection." It is a pity you have so much contempt for others ("Soccer-moms" is simply a pejorative--it has no place in any reasoned argument). Perhaps not everyone believes the way you do. If you have a right to your opinions, why can't she express how she feels?

As far as corporation bashing, that is pretty low as well. That text did not come from Leica--that is clearly not marketing material, I know because I used to write international press releases for a camera company. There are plenty of journalists that do pieces on products. Generally, a marketing piece will not be condescending toward others as the author was.

"Offense" is a funny thing. You can take it or give it. It seems you have chosen to take offense (unless you are a dentist).

 

[NB23]

We are now arguing off topic.
If we get back to the article, it's obviously a Leica promo. If it's not clear to you, that's okay.

 

[Brian Mosley]

Well, I think it's a charming article and don't doubt for a moment that she is being genuine. I recognise the excitement and fun of finding a new camera that feels and performs beautifully.

I've been lucky to feel that excitement and passion a number of times over the years... most recently with the X100 and E-M5.

The most important thing for me is that each new camera experience inspires me to get out more and shoot better.

Thanks for the pointer Jono

Brian

 

[Vivek]

NB23, Because of the reasons I listed earlier, and reading that article again, in the context of some beautiful word play here, I am now totally convinced that it is not a promo. It is too amateurish of a text to be one. :ROTFL:

We are now arguing off topic.
If we get back to the article, it's obviously a Leica promo. If it's not clear to you, that's okay.

Let me add here that when the M8 debuted, sections of the British press ran articles with scathing attack on Leica.
Their main complaint was the crop factor, the minor part was that it is not a film camera (there was no recognition or mention of the IR issues and such, it was just blind rage). I am pretty sure those were not sponsored by any one in particular.

For some odd reason, there is some interest in the British press to discuss Leica which does not happen easily in other countries.

 

[dude163]

why is it obvious?

 

[Maggie O]

My first thought was, "Wow, the bass player from Gang of Four, The League of Gentlemen and the B-52's is now a working PJ? Cool."

 

[dude163]

a quote from her comments


"Hi, I wasn't trying to argue in favour of the Leica over buying a Nikon or Canon. [I shoot Nikon], it's just I was trying to explain why I don't regret making the investment in the Leica as both a complement to my Nikon kit, and as a creative shot in the arm to make me slow down and think about pictures in a slightly different way. I was trying to explain how I've justified the investment to myself, and how I personally feel about the camera rather than trying to make a didactic case for replacing slr's with expensive rangefinders!"

sounds like marketing to me

 

[fotografz]

a quote from her comments


"Hi, I wasn't trying to argue in favour of the Leica over buying a Nikon or Canon. [I shoot Nikon], it's just I was trying to explain why I don't regret making the investment in the Leica as both a complement to my Nikon kit, and as a creative shot in the arm to make me slow down and think about pictures in a slightly different way. I was trying to explain how I've justified the investment to myself, and how I personally feel about the camera rather than trying to make a didactic case for replacing slr's with expensive rangefinders!"

sounds like marketing to me

Then I guess that means any well reasoned thought process as to tool choices is then just marketing in the end ... right?

Rangefinder photography is a different experiential process, but if you say that out loud, you are just a marketing stooge. :loco:

Even if you are, so what?

-Marc

 

[NB23]

And how would she go about selling her audience a Leica in a different way? The more I read it and the more it gets obvious: it is an ad, fair and square.

And it works wonderfully well. Many people fall for it, including you

 

[seakayaker]

. . . . . much to do about nothing.