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Thread: An interesting article in the Guardian

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    An interesting article in the Guardian

    another convert . . . .

    Sarah Lee gets a Leica ME

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    I think the headline is interesting:

    Guardian photographer Sarah Lee on the camera that has reinvigorated her passion for photography, ..

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Interesting and good article. Good to seen it being used in reportage.
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    I think many are in the same boat as her... That is - an incredible camera which provides a unique (and satisfying) shooting experience.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Obviously we're all very biased but I'm not surprised at all. There's something about shooting with the Leica that's hard to define but it certainly can be a very engaging experience. Some take to it, other's just don't get it.

    The choice of the M-E is interesting too. When I think about how many times I ever actually really used the viewfinder mask selector, other than just to check it out, I can't see that it's loss would be any bother at all. As regards the USB connector - does anyone actually ever use it?
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    I'd be fine with an M-E, but I love the looks of the M9-P and got a deal on one, so that's where I landed. But an M-E would be just fine with me and it's got a sort of working U-Boat look that's grown on me.
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Fun read...echoes the passion that Leica instilled in me after getting the SLR blahs/blues... now very happy with my M9-P (like Maggie) and MM....
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    The choice of the M-E is interesting too. When I think about how many times I ever actually really used the viewfinder mask selector, other than just to check it out, I can't see that it's loss would be any bother at all.
    I may be in the minority and often hear what Graham expressed (above) more and more from others since the ME was released, but I often use the frame line selector to see how other lenses might frame a given image, especially if I have little time to change lenses and quickly want to pick the right one. It may not always be often, but it's often enough to make me think twice if I had to give it up.

    I haven't read the article yet, but looking forward to reading it!

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 30th December 2012 at 05:10.
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Reading about other people's new found enthusiasm is always invigorating . . . and makes one realise how lucky one is to have been able to accumulate M lenses over the years.

    Personally, I'm with Maggie - rather have a deal on an M9p, but I think the ME does look nice.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    How many pictures that Guardian uses are from Sarah Lee (apart from the ones from the article)? M9/M9P/M-E all are the same with minor cosmetic variations. She could have "discovered" the passion several years ago. The sudden price drop has made the camera a bit more enticing.

    I am just thinking aloud.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    What's the big deal and why is there an article about this? It must be sponsored. If itisn't, then there's something very wrong, imo. Nobody brags publically about eating margarine and it would be pointless to do so... Unless paid to do so.
    It's extremely obvious to me.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    I suspected that it might be because of the defense about the price tag (even though it is the lowest priced digital RF from Leica ever) at the end.

    Who can put a price tag on the re-invigoration of the passion though?
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    What's the big deal and why is there an article about this? It must be sponsored. If itisn't, then there's something very wrong, imo. Nobody brags publically about eating margarine and it would be pointless to do so... Unless paid to do so.
    It's extremely obvious to me.
    I'm thinking that you must have been beaten as a child ...

    I'm gullible enough to believe that it's a puff piece from an embarrassingly happy photographer who has discovered DRF's. No hidden commercial agenda beyond maybe raising interest in her work through an interesting article in favor of something other than an a Canikon DSLR that everyone else uses.



    Regarding the frameline adjuster, I personally didn't use it much probably because after years of shooting 35mm I think that I can pretty much guesstimate which focal length I need (and have) and how it'll look. However, I do understand why it's there and it is part of the Leica experience too.

    I'd take a chrome M9-P over the M-E too btw.
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    The comments following the article are fascinating.

    Quite a few of the respondents are in to music and preferred better (pricey) instruments. Some have suggested small, light weight and inexpensive mirrorless cameras. Sarah Lee says she used to have a M6 and lenses but regrets selling the lenses for peanuts to buy a Nikon D2 and also she is not reporter (but fills in only when the regulars are not available). She also says that she is a Nikon shooter. She also regrets saying that the digital RF, Leica M8 (based on the new prices and not the current used prices) was a "dentist" camera. She could only afford a 2 nd hand 50/1.4 Asph. No other lenses.

    So, I think it is definitely not a Leica sponsored article.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Graham Wrote--->"Regarding the frameline adjuster, I personally didn't use it much probably because after years of shooting 35mm I think that I can pretty much guesstimate which focal length I need (and have) and how it'll look."<<<

    Are you suggesting (based on what I posted above) after all my years of shooting (which easily match yours), that I still can't get the hang of guesstimating which focal length lens I need without resorting to the M9 frame selector lever ??? Well...um....maybe you're right!
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    What's the big deal and why is there an article about this? It must be sponsored. If itisn't, then there's something very wrong, imo. Nobody brags publically about eating margarine and it would be pointless to do so... Unless paid to do so.
    It's extremely obvious to me.
    Of course, everything is possible, but the Guardian is definitely reputable, and Sarah Lee is on the staff - if she were taking money from Leica for an article she wrote . . .. .. and then the idea of the Guardian taking sponsorship money for a regular article. . . The idea is unthinkable. What a silly way to compromise a good reputation.

    No - I think Vivek is right - good article for the Christmas period - interesting and the comments are telling as well.

    I do agree that it isn't a big deal though.

    all the best

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Its nice to read an article where someone is excited and enthusiastic about something in this day and age, it seems to be in vogue to bash everything for being something that it wasnt intended to be.

    I wish her the best in her M journey, I myself was very reluctant and resistant to getting a Leica because I thought they were for overpaid douchebags or rich people

    Now Im kicking myself for not getting one sooner

    the first Leica M I touched or even saw was the M8 I bought , talk about a leap of faith! I figured Id resell it if I didnt like it
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    I mirror most of her sentiments (including the caressing bit ). The M9 is one that I've not felt the need to upgrade, and still pushes me to go out and shoot more even after the newness factor has worn out.
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    ... Because adults and pros, as opposed to kids and amateurs, don't rely on magical thinking. Do you see Salgado praising Leica? No. Except in Leica's ads. And now in Canon's ads.

    That article is clearly marketing. And the Guardian being what it is, Leica has been extremely smart on this. You guys surely know that Leica completely lost it 3 decades ago and almost went bankrupt 7 years ago. Probably not as most of the current Leica crowd were Nikon and Canon users mostly interested in "tack sharp" zooms and so called other "gems". Leica was giving 25% off their lenses. Discount sales on their website. The whole picture was pretty desperate. Go read the Leica forums on photo.net and look for posts from 2005 and earlier. The Noctilux was 2000$. PJs mocked the brand. Deserted it. Even today, Leica is desperately trying to get back into the pro PJ market. And sponsoring PJs is the only way to do it. Another hint is the recent partnership with Magnum.
    It is obvious that most of the leica forums users are bored and need a refreshing new tool, which is fine. But judging by the pictures, many would benefit from a dslr.

    You know... If I was an editor I wouldn't let this blatantly obvious sales pitch get printed unless there was a deal made. Yes, Leica is trying to regain the PJ market and this is a way of doing it.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Of course, everything is possible, but the Guardian is definitely reputable, and Sarah Lee is on the staff - if she were taking money from Leica for an article she wrote . . .. .. and then the idea of the Guardian taking sponsorship money for a regular article. . . The idea is unthinkable. What a silly way to compromise a good reputation.
    You mean The Guardian, the extremely effective Brain-washing machine, having its reputation compromised?
    No, never.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    NB23, Your reasoning is completely off the wall. If Leica is doing a subliminal advertising, like you contend, I would only hope that Sarah Lee gets an entire set of new M lenses to go with her M-E. It is quite obvious that she is one of the Leica nuts.
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    My reasoning is absolutely 21st century.
    This article is a very careful product placement in a paper where each cubic centimeter has a price (monetary, political, ideological, lobbyist...). The same reason why you have James Bond drinking a Twenty Eight Million Sterling Pounds Pint of Heineken in the latest movie.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    That is an old ploy and nothing new. Kodak gave 1 billion $ (no less) to call the Oscar venue by Kodak's name. What happened? Oscar shows still go on and keep making big money.

    Again, if your assertion is true, I really hope that Sarah Lee gets more than the urge to buy an used 50/1.4 Lux to go with the M-E.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    NB23, not sure if you're against the paper or against Leica? Will the article be any more truthful to you if she was praising the D800 or RX1?
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    I am not "against" anything. Plug in any camera brand name and there you have a marketing pitch for that company.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    I am not "against" anything. Plug in any camera brand name and there you have a marketing pitch for that company.
    So you review books and movies without the title? You talk about an artist without revealing who they are? If you go to a national park, you should not reveal which one it is? So writing an article about a particular camera that happened to inspire you, you should leave out what the actual camera was?

    Sorry, you are really making a stretch. Granted I did not find the article very interesting and Sarah Lee sounds like a bakery, but was just a piece on how one camera (which apparently should not be named) made an impact on a photographer (and there are so many digital rangefinders out there [and most people would know what it is]). Since this is a professional photographer (with an unfortunate name), it does provide folks outside the profession with some insight. I think if Leica was really influencing this very small newspaper, it would have done a bit more than requiring the author to go out and buy their low-end model rather than simply giving her a new M--that would hardly be an expense for the company.

    Relax. Just enjoy the piece for what it is.
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Besides, even if it is a shameless pug for Leica, why would you not want to support the manufacturers that make the tools we use? The more appreciation of the high-end of the field, the better off we are or everything we will have with be Canon Rebels and Sony Nexs. Their success is ours...

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Thank goodness that isn't the case and there are always half baked Leica wannabees.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Because, to me, that shameless plug comes across as a big insult. It is an insult and we should all be insulted, IMO, at such a low level of marketing. She taljs abou tthe materials used and that it's 20% cheaper then the M9 anf so on.
    This is the society in which we are living. Everything for a buck.
    I've seen my share of particularly bitter media injustice. And in my PJ work, this is something I'm working on, telling the truth. As a PJ, if I start talking about my equipment what does this tell you? Probably that I'm not a serious PJ. Of course, I love to fondle my Leicas and I indulge in doing it. But that's on forums. In the real life, in my exhibitions, when talking to people and editors and other photographers, I always remain silent about my equipment. I'm so silent about it that random people who want to talk about equipment think that I have no clue. They start teaching me about aperture and ISO control... I am probably the worst person to talk about equipment in person. I get caught by a feeling of silliness. Conversations like "the summilux asph is so sharp compared to the pre-asph bokeh king, and the micro-contrast Leica glow..." just doesn't sound right. In fact, this is where you separate the pros from the amateurs.
    And thus article was clearly aimed to the soccer-mom's husbands out there. The "walkabout" crowd with a starbuck coffee in one hand.
    I agree, it's all good as long as one clearly sees what it's about.

    I am a die-hard Leicaphile but I stay silent about my equipment. It is completely irrelevant. In forums, ok. But in a newspaper? I will go as far as to believe that it's a text sent by Leica's marketing dept. No respectable PJ would write such a text by him/herself. Not in a newspaper.

    Ok, let's all love our Leicas now. I'll go print some 20x24s on my focomat IIc.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    ...and there are always half baked Leica wannabees.
    I know. The ridiculous "rangefinder style" of the Nex 7/6 is just so transparent.

    BTW, I thought you were ignoring me...

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    Because, to me, that shameless plug comes across as a big insult. It is an insult and we should all be insulted, IMO, at such a low level of marketing. She taljs abou tthe materials used and that it's 20% cheaper then the M9 anf so on.
    This is the society in which we are living. Everything for a buck.
    I've seen my share of particularly bitter media injustice. And in my PJ work, this is something I'm working on, telling the truth. As a PJ, if I start talking about my equipment what does this tell you? Probably that I'm not a serious PJ. Of course, I love to fondle my Leicas and I indulge in doing it. But that's on forums. In the real life, in my exhibitions, when talking to people and editors and other photographers, I always remain silent about my equipment. I'm so silent about it that random people who want to talk about equipment think that I have no clue. They start teaching me about aperture and ISO control... I am probably the worst person to talk about equipment in person. I get caught by a feeling of silliness. Conversations like "the summilux asph is so sharp compared to the pre-asph bokeh king, and the micro-contrast Leica glow..." just doesn't sound right. In fact, this is where you separate the pros from the amateurs.
    And thus article was clearly aimed to the soccer-mom's husbands out there. The "walkabout" crowd with a starbuck coffee in one hand.
    I agree, it's all good as long as one clearly sees what it's about.

    I am a die-hard Leicaphile but I stay silent about my equipment. It is completely irrelevant. In forums, ok. But in a newspaper? I will go as far as to believe that it's a text sent by Leica's marketing dept. No respectable PJ would write such a text by him/herself. Not in a newspaper.

    Ok, let's all love our Leicas now. I'll go print some 20x24s on my focomat IIc.
    That is called "projection." It is a pity you have so much contempt for others ("Soccer-moms" is simply a pejorative--it has no place in any reasoned argument). Perhaps not everyone believes the way you do. If you have a right to your opinions, why can't she express how she feels?

    As far as corporation bashing, that is pretty low as well. That text did not come from Leica--that is clearly not marketing material, I know because I used to write international press releases for a camera company. There are plenty of journalists that do pieces on products. Generally, a marketing piece will not be condescending toward others as the author was.

    "Offense" is a funny thing. You can take it or give it. It seems you have chosen to take offense (unless you are a dentist).

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    We are now arguing off topic.
    If we get back to the article, it's obviously a Leica promo. If it's not clear to you, that's okay.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Well, I think it's a charming article and don't doubt for a moment that she is being genuine. I recognise the excitement and fun of finding a new camera that feels and performs beautifully.

    I've been lucky to feel that excitement and passion a number of times over the years... most recently with the X100 and E-M5.

    The most important thing for me is that each new camera experience inspires me to get out more and shoot better.

    Thanks for the pointer Jono

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    NB23, Because of the reasons I listed earlier, and reading that article again, in the context of some beautiful word play here, I am now totally convinced that it is not a promo. It is too amateurish of a text to be one.

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    We are now arguing off topic.
    If we get back to the article, it's obviously a Leica promo. If it's not clear to you, that's okay.
    Let me add here that when the M8 debuted, sections of the British press ran articles with scathing attack on Leica.
    Their main complaint was the crop factor, the minor part was that it is not a film camera (there was no recognition or mention of the IR issues and such, it was just blind rage). I am pretty sure those were not sponsored by any one in particular.

    For some odd reason, there is some interest in the British press to discuss Leica which does not happen easily in other countries.
    Last edited by Vivek; 30th December 2012 at 11:42. Reason: Addition

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    why is it obvious?

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    My first thought was, "Wow, the bass player from Gang of Four, The League of Gentlemen and the B-52's is now a working PJ? Cool."
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    a quote from her comments


    "Hi, I wasn't trying to argue in favour of the Leica over buying a Nikon or Canon. [I shoot Nikon], it's just I was trying to explain why I don't regret making the investment in the Leica as both a complement to my Nikon kit, and as a creative shot in the arm to make me slow down and think about pictures in a slightly different way. I was trying to explain how I've justified the investment to myself, and how I personally feel about the camera rather than trying to make a didactic case for replacing slr's with expensive rangefinders!"

    sounds like marketing to me :P

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by dude163 View Post
    a quote from her comments


    "Hi, I wasn't trying to argue in favour of the Leica over buying a Nikon or Canon. [I shoot Nikon], it's just I was trying to explain why I don't regret making the investment in the Leica as both a complement to my Nikon kit, and as a creative shot in the arm to make me slow down and think about pictures in a slightly different way. I was trying to explain how I've justified the investment to myself, and how I personally feel about the camera rather than trying to make a didactic case for replacing slr's with expensive rangefinders!"

    sounds like marketing to me :P
    Then I guess that means any well reasoned thought process as to tool choices is then just marketing in the end ... right?

    Rangefinder photography is a different experiential process, but if you say that out loud, you are just a marketing stooge.

    Even if you are, so what?

    -Marc

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    And how would she go about selling her audience a Leica in a different way? The more I read it and the more it gets obvious: it is an ad, fair and square.

    And it works wonderfully well. Many people fall for it, including you

  40. #40
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    . . . . . much to do about nothing.

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    Senior Member dude163's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    I read that article and immediately bought 2x M-E and 2 Noctiluxes ( Noctilii?) one for rainy weather and 1 for nice, so I guess it was marketing!
    http://dude163.blogspot.com/
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    And how would she go about selling her audience a Leica in a different way? The more I read it and the more it gets obvious: it is an ad, fair and square.

    And it works wonderfully well. Many people fall for it, including you
    Yes. You're right and it is a Leica marketing ploy. Everyone else is wrong. There you go. You solved life's great mystery and we can all move on and buy the Leica kit many of us already owned.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    I read the article too and enjoyed it.

    It got me to thinking about the purchase of a Fuji X-Pro1 or X-E1, the everyman's Leica.

    So if it's a subtle marketing promo for Leica rangefinders, it didn't work very well in my case.

    Gary
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    And how would she go about selling her audience a Leica in a different way? The more I read it and the more it gets obvious: it is an ad, fair and square.

    And it works wonderfully well. Many people fall for it, including you
    So, you have convince yourself you are right and the rest of us are fools. That is very sad. I really feel sorry for you.
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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Leica is so EVIL
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Yup - Leica sucks. What a bunch of arrogant, snobby fools with TONS of disposable income....
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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Clennan View Post
    Yup - Leica sucks. What a bunch of arrogant, snobby fools with TONS of disposable income....
    Now hold on Gary.....there are many of us with plenty of disposable income (well, maybe not TONS of it) who buy Canons, Nikons, Hasselblads, Fujis, Panasonics etc etc etc.

    Don't WE ever get to play in the part of arrogant, snobby fools? That's just not fair. Why should Leica owners have all the fun?

    Gary

    PS. I own a couple of older Leica R cameras, but I know that doesn't really count when it comes to playing the part of an arrogant, snobby fool. In that respect, I wasted my money on those Leica SLRs.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Look at those impression space. Reading this article, you are segmented as 'purchase intender'. I am being now targeted and served with Leica products ads whether it be from Leica directly or Amazon. Love it... digital marketing at its best.

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    Re: An interesting article in the Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by blimey View Post
    Look at those impression space. Reading this article, you are segmented as 'purchase intender'. I am being now targeted and served with Leica products ads whether it be from Leica directly or Amazon. Love it... digital marketing at its best.
    Let's get the terminology right.

    If, (IF being the operative word), it was a planted story, then it is Public Relations at its best.

    Proper Direct Marketing is never that inefficient.

    -Marc

    BTW, checkout the blinking ads at the top of the Get Dpi sceen. Advertising in its many forms helps make the world go around.

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