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Thread: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

  1. #51
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Not according to the NY Times:

    Visions of a Blind Photographer - NYTimes.com


    Bob

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The main difference is one of approach. Leica Ms are desired by some because the rangefinder way of making a photograph strips away distractions like DOF effect of focal length in the viewfinder, or distortion from wide lenses or effects of telephoto compression ... forcing a concentration on what an image is about over what it looks like. Stripping color from the creative decision process is just another shift from "looks like" verses what the photo is "about".

    Doesn't matter if you buy that point-of-view, what matters is that others buy it, and therefore buy the camera for what it was designed to do for them. The B&W aesthetic needs no defending, it is well established and extremely long lived ... the MM is just an extension of that time proven photographic discipline so long dominated (and restricted) by B&W film.

    If one doesn't "get that", then the MM camera isn't their cup of tea. Nothing wrong about that either ... different strokes for different folks.
    As a b/w film and Leica M user for 4 decades, I fully understand your comments. And for many people, it is exactly so. As you say, though, different strokes for different folks. I, for instance, have no trouble using my M8.2 for strictly b/w shooting, and wrapping my mind around that before I leave the house, if b/w is my sole intent. I don't need the MM to create the mindset; years of practice does that. (And no, I don't need to 'chimp' to preview the pic, or to verify exposure except in very unusual lighting circumstances.)

    That's not to say, however, that the MM results aren't different or better for some, or that there isn't more enjoyment for some using the MM, or that others can get their head in the b/w mode without needing a specific camera to force the thought process.

    Even when I shot almost exclusively b/w in my film days, occasionally I needed to shoot a color scene and so I planned to pack an extra film roll or carried a second camera. That didn't destroy my ability to get right back into the b/w mode shortly thereafter. Life with the M8.2 is no different, just easier to transition. But I've never let the ease of that transition affect my deliberation or thought process. For me, it isn't the roll of film or the sensor that's in control; it's my brain. And I'm sure those who carry both the MM and an M9 (for color, as some have said here and on LUF) have their own rationale.

    Different strokes; whatever works.

    Jeff

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    The problem is not me as much as all the ultra defensiveness without properly reading what I was actually saying.
    Oh, I never said I disliked pics taken with the monochrom (yet you took it that way! It's just that none was taken with a monochrom that wouldn't have been possible with a M9.
    That's a subtle but solid difference.
    I thought you said the camera was almost akin to a scam. How exactly are we supposed to read that? Are you saying the owners are deluded? You certainly seem to imply that in your posts. And all this time you simply don't know because you have no experience with the camera.

    I am sorry if I appeared defensive. That was not my intention. I was really trying to convey how rude you are.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Not according to the NY Times:

    Visions of a Blind Photographer - NYTimes.com
    Many more as well.

    Jeff
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    We ran astrophotographs through a 3-D printer for an exhibition for a blind school group to help them visualize these celestial objects. It was a very interesting exercise.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    So whats a thread on GETDPI without a picture to pic at.....

    One example cannot convey why I am pleased with the Mono, a couple of hundred begins to do so. However I pulled a picture that has a bit of midtone detail and shadow/highlight/blown out areas. It is about 60 percent of the area of the DNG as I rotated it a bit in LR. I took it out of LR into PS and downsized it for the forum....I then pulled three 100% crops from LR into PS and processed as the initial but no downsizing. Here then are picture and the crops.

    Leica Monochrom



    Tree Trunk Near Lakes Edge







    Crop 1







    Crop 2







    Crop 3






    The crops do not appear as sharp on the forum as in LR or PS at 100%...probably TIF -> JPG compression. I actually upgraded to an Adobe RBG profiled monitor as there is a lot of information I was seeing in print but not on my Apple Cinema profiled display.
    This level of information surpasses any 35 mm film I scanned with the Hasselblad 343 and is at the level of a very good MF film scan. Which is enough information to stress my skills and vision.


    Bob

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    A luminance space and a color space are very different. A desaturated color image will not produce the same result as a monochrome image. By simply having a color, you can limit the brightness of an object--color is a psychological response to wavelength and reflects our experience, but is not really reflecting luminance output. Monochrome is not constrained by the limits of color and so presents a different image.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Ok, okay. Someone give me an MM so I can use it for a couple of years and then sell it to buy an M(240). Then I'll report on how hard the seller's remorse hits me. ;-)

    G

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Love it Godfrey.

    So my plan is to buy another to keep in reserve when this one burns out...

    Bob

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Love it Godfrey.

    So my plan is to buy another to keep in reserve when this one burns out...

    Bob
    Bob, just inquiring if you've received my mailing address for forwarding me that unit when it burns out, appearing to be dead with nothing functioning? This way I can quickly revive it with a simple battery change

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    He didn't take it because of the tiny invisible mark?
    In my experience, I'd now raise the price by 100$ for the lost time and energy. He wants it? 100$ extra.

    So this is where we are: a camera not selling because of an invisible mark. The fact that it's a camera is unimportant. It's not about a camera anymore, but about a status.
    The whole "Buy/Sell" gestalt is a bi-product of how damned expensive all this stuff is now, and how fast it becomes perceptually outdated.

    So when you get that shiny new Leica M its value will already be falling like a stone in anticipation of the next $7K+ M camera. Everyone just keeps buying one full color Dodo after another.

    The MM is the first digital camera that somewhat defies all that because it is so specialized, and those experienced in B&W work know that. It does super high ISOs with clean tonality and razor sharp acuity. B&W shooters do not need more than that, and no color rangefinder approaches it in either of those key performance attributes. It is a keeper in a transient digital world.

    In the 35+ years of using Leica M film cameras I shot maybe 10 rolls of color film ... M equalled B&W to me, and now it does again. The biggest quandary I have now is whether to secure a second MM and get rid of all color M cameras.

    -Marc

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Dave,

    As Marc mentioned .... it is a question not answered yet and I am afraid you would not recognize the camera by the time I divest it.

    The real problem is finding one....should have bought another before all the good news hit the fan.

    Bob

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Dave,

    As Marc mentioned .... it is a question not answered yet and I am afraid you would not recognize the camera by the time I divest it.

    The real problem is finding one....should have bought another before all the good news hit the fan.

    Bob
    Thats OK..if it resembles a camera found in a fire sale (literally from a "FIRE" sale)...thats better than nothing...LOL! It is basic black in color (ha, no pun intended)....so maybe no one will notice that it's non-functional hanging around my neck. I'll bring it up to eye level every few minutes. .

    Serious though, I suspect that the MM will be available for as long as the M-E is in prooduction but in smaller #'s of course and if sold in quantity, would of course prompt a monochrom replacement....thats just good marketing. Whether it's based on the M240 or some future incarnation of a digital M, no way to know. This is of course all conjecture, but just like there might (or probably) will be a future M240-P down the road, so too might there be a future monochrom.

    Still now is now and that is what we have to deal with in terms of available cameras. After working with a lot of the MM files files and even comparing simultanioulsy with my own M9 (same lens, same subject at same time), depending on lighting and a number of other scene related factors, the advantage even at ISO 320 set on both cameras, is quite telling.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The MM is the first digital camera that somewhat defies all that because it is so specialized, and those experienced in B&W work know that. It does super high ISOs with clean tonality and razor sharp acuity.
    I never expected or needed my film Ms, loaded with Tri-X, to do "super high ISOs (ASAs) with clean tonality." The M8.2 serves fine as my front end to producing fine b/w prints, which is my only goal. There's no reason for camera lust and never a thought about depreciation. My camera has paid for itself many times over already. Oh, and same for the second, used, M8.2 I bought as a back-up.

    For others, the MM is key. Different strokes...again.

    I do, however, look forward to reports regarding weather sealing on the M240. Now that's a practical advantage that could bring back the comfort level of using a film M without worry.

    Jeff
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    I took a temporary detour from the land of M for several years after having owned an M8, M8.2 and finally an M9. I really believe that the upgrade route for me was in the end a pursuit of something that I was finally able to find in the MM. The extra ISO has provided me with an opportunity to venture further into the night and early mornings where action on the street is most interesting. I can set out on a walk of the streets before daylight or after the sun sets with the confidence that my stealthy little light gatherer is going to come away with the shot. The earlier digital versions of the M are simply unable to punch in the same weight class in this regard.

    Everyone's criteria for their gear is different. Everyone gets to the results they want to achieve in different ways. Thank goodness for the choices that are available.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    To me, that camera is bordering on a scam. In a blind test, one could never guess which is from a color sensor or from the monochom.

    I wouldn't regret selling it.
    I disagree. If someone will take a photo of a red apple next to a green bell pepper with both the mono and the m9 and convert the m9 file to b and w as they normally would.. I think the results will be obvious. I saw this done recently... the mono acts as b and w should... the m9 not so much.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff S View Post
    I never expected or needed my film Ms, loaded with Tri-X, to do "super high ISOs (ASAs) with clean tonality." The M8.2 serves fine as my front end to producing fine b/w prints, which is my only goal. There's no reason for camera lust and never a thought about depreciation. My camera has paid for itself many times over already. Oh, and same for the second, used, M8.2 I bought as a back-up.

    For others, the MM is key. Different strokes...again.

    I do, however, look forward to reports regarding weather sealing on the M240. Now that's a practical advantage that could bring back the comfort level of using a film M without worry.

    Jeff
    Agreed. I actually add grain to my M9 B&W images, and, from what I've seen, although the tonality is different between M9 and MM B&W images, I can't really say one is better than the other, and neither necessarily looks like film. Either way, if I was more of a B&W shooter looking for a new Leica M, I see no reason not to go MM.

    The M240's weather sealing is the most interesting thing about the camera to me, too. I'm pretty happy with the M9 for the most part.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by moreammo View Post
    I disagree. If someone will take a photo of a red apple next to a green bell pepper with both the mono and the m9 and convert the m9 file to b and w as they normally would.. I think the results will be obvious. I saw this done recently... the mono acts as b and w should... the m9 not so much.
    I often enjoy when two cameras (or lenses for that matter) are compared in such a fashion. Not so much for bragging rights or to say, hey my camera (or lens) is better than yours. It's simply out of interest to see how they perform under near identical situations and also to see if it's possible for one to come close to emulating the other through both in-camera settings as well as post processing.

    By test shooting the MM along side the M9 (as I have had the opportunity to do), the initial differences could be readily seen) but I also came to the conclusion that even setting a lower ISO of 320 with both cameras, the differences also greatly depends on a good many factors, such as subject, lighting and tonality of the scene etc.

    With that said, a low ISO image with a red apple and green pepper I would be very interesting to see and compare with both cameras...especially after one adjusts (post processes) the MM image to display their vision of the pic and then do the same with the M9 file. Again its not at all making a statement about whether a M9 can be a close substitute to a MM (although some might see it that way)....not at all. Just an interesting exercise for comparitive reasons and an exercise in gaining knowlege about both cameras.

    I just reently did the same thing with the new Leica "S" and the Pentax 645D, using both systems 120mm macro's to make the comparison as close as possible at the same time and shooting the same subject. Again not expecting the 645D can performance match the Leica's lenses and image quaility in general...but to see differences in image characteristics and to also determine how the Pentax does in this comparison with what is rarely argued, their best performing lens....their 120 f4 macro (FA verion in my case)...since all the Leica "S" lesnes are spectacular in performance. When time permits in a few weeks, I'll post a comparitive pair or two of these images in the medium format forums.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by moreammo View Post
    .. I think the results will be obvious.
    Indeed they are absolutely different. A colour sensor goes through a demosaicing algorithm, monochrome does not. Compare shooting the MM through a blue filter versus applying a blue filter in post on the M9 (or any colour camera), it will accentuate the relative weaknesses.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by moreammo View Post
    I disagree. If someone will take a photo of a red apple next to a green bell pepper with both the mono and the m9 and convert the m9 file to b and w as they normally would.. I think the results will be obvious. I saw this done recently... the mono acts as b and w should... the m9 not so much.
    The person showing that test probably had no clue about what a proper BW should look like.
    A proper tweak in the right color channels and there you have the proper BW M9 file.
    Photoshop's "auto B&W" isn't the optimum way to convert a color file.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Perhaps it is better to do away with this thread?

    The OP has decided to keep the MM.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    The person showing that test probably had no clue about what a proper BW should look like.
    A proper tweak in the right color channels and there you have the proper BW M9 file.
    Photoshop's "auto B&W" isn't the optimum way to convert a color file.
    Please, show us your test where you took a Monchrom and M9 file and produce the same result.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    My prints have never been so good since I got my MM. The tonal range with high resolution and a special crispness really shines with prints. That is the deal maker, prints.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Perhaps it is better to do away with this thread?

    The OP has decided to keep the MM.
    Agree...

    Really comes down to those who appreciate the strengths of the Monochrom and those who do not.

    Let them shoot 8x10 film, develop in Pyro ....

    Me, I will run around with this little box, throw a few files into LR/PS and still have time to tend the grill for dinner.

    Bob

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Agree...

    Really comes down to those who appreciate the strengths of the Monochrom and those who do not.

    Let them shoot 8x10 film, develop in Pyro ....

    Me, I will run around with this little box, throw a few files into LR/PS and still have time to tend the grill for dinner.

    Bob
    Bob, I appreciate the monochrom, honestly I do! Lord knows how many times I test shot the camera and examined and post processed it's files. OK, what's for dinner and while "YOU" tend to the grill, mind if I walk around the neighborhood with your monochrome?

    Simply too many years of smelling the hypo & fixer and spooling roll after roll of film canasters, it's sort about time to move onto another medium for B&W imagery. Although some exceptionally fine work has been done with any number of color digital cameras (and I've seen some very nice work)....the monochrom if nothing else has some very distinct advantages and an exceptional amount of latitude with regards to adjustment and malleability of it's files.

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Please, show us your test where you took a Monchrom and M9 file and produce the same result.
    Yes please do, i would love also to know how. my skills are lacking in this area as i have not been able to achieve this. this is not to say that i can not get a result i like with my M9, i certainly can and will continue to do so. but the fact remains it would take some work to make it get the correct tone to color match as the MM will do natively.

    -Jon

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    I love mine. No scam at all if you see in B&W. Its files are sharper with more DR and the high ISO performance makes it a real gem for the street.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by moreammo View Post
    Yes please do, i would love also to know how. my skills are lacking in this area as i have not been able to achieve this. this is not to say that i can not get a result i like with my M9, i certainly can and will continue to do so. but the fact remains it would take some work to make it get the correct tone to color match as the MM will do natively.

    -Jon
    Plus the files have more range and are sharper than the files from an M9. Its the perfect camera if you see and shoot B&W. And the high ISO performance is stunning and something the M9 lacks.

    A corporate event I shot for a client a week or so back.

    The MM and 35 Lux FLE at 6400 ISO.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Please, show us your test where you took a Monchrom and M9 file and produce the same result.
    As I already stated in this thread, I looked at over 3000 Monorkum
    Images and I kept on seeing better looking M8, M9 and dslr files in the same
    Threads as well as in other threads. After so many hours contemplating the subject, my conclusion was unequivocal.

    Now if you want to see what is a true fine 20x24 FB selenium toned print coming out from the finest IIc and focotar-2, and from the finest hands, you can send me 900$. My going rate.
    Such a print usually sets things in the right perspective.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    As I already stated in this thread, I looked at over 3000 Monorkum
    Images and I kept on seeing better looking M8, M9 and dslr files in the same
    Threads as well as in other threads. After so many hours contemplating the subject, my conclusion was unequivocal.

    Now if you want to see what is a true fine 20x24 FB selenium toned print coming out from the finest IIc and focotar-2, and from the finest hands, you can send me 900$. My going rate.
    Such a print usually sets things in the right perspective.
    You couldn't make a usable 6400 ISO M9 image.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Well I have yet to see a 6400 ISO file from either the M8 or M9 as clean as the one I posted.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    As I already stated in this thread, I looked at over 3000 Monorkum
    Images and I kept on seeing better looking M8, M9 and dslr files in the same
    Threads as well as in other threads. After so many hours contemplating the subject, my conclusion was unequivocal.

    Now if you want to see what is a true fine 20x24 FB selenium toned print coming out from the finest IIc and focotar-2, and from the finest hands, you can send me 900$. My going rate.
    Such a print usually sets things in the right perspective.
    LOL. So you counted the number of images you viewed. But it is nice to know that you are still unencumbered by facts--you just have to wish it and make it come true.

    I will save the $900. I can make my own selenium toned prints. Anyone can be a darkroom technician.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    As I already stated in this thread, I looked at over 3000 Monorkum
    Images and I kept on seeing better looking M8, M9 and dslr files in the same
    Threads as well as in other threads. After so many hours contemplating the subject, my conclusion was unequivocal.

    Now if you want to see what is a true fine 20x24 FB selenium toned print coming out from the finest IIc and focotar-2, and from the finest hands, you can send me 900$. My going rate.
    Such a print usually sets things in the right perspective.
    The problem I have with your 'observations' is that I have an M8/M9/MM to go with my M3 and MP - and I can't get the same file from an M8 or an M9 that I get from the Monochrome.

    btw - your $900 price tag for a print is nice work if you can get it...and pretty much underlines why digital photography 'economics' is so compelling - for less than 10 prints at your prices I have bought into a top of the line Epson...or an MM and a Summicron..or (fill in the blanks to your heart's desire)

    I kept my 11c - it makes for a lovely retro deluxo piece of sculpture alongside my LF Sinar - both sitting in my reception area...do yourself a favour if you love b&W and rent a Monochrome for a weekend with a decent lens - be prepared to be blown away in the same way panchromatics at 25ISO used to deliver @ 100X the effort and cost and hassle...

    I think you should give up your line of argument - you are just digging an embarrassingly deeper hole with each utterance - I mean this in the nicest possible way.
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  34. #84
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    At one juncture when simultaionsly testing the monochrom again my M9, shooting the same urban landscape (on a moderately bright overcast day)...with the same lens at virtually the same time (ISO's 320 & 640), I was a bit taken back when I got back and post processed the initial matched pairs of shots. At ISO 320, except for a notable increase in acuity and also a slightly cleaner file with the MM, the on screen images seemed to be extremely close in look, DR and tonality accross the frame in most areas of the image. If I had stopped at this point, I might have declared it was possible to essentually replicate what is achieved with the MM, with a M9. Even the prints I made nearly showed their very close similarity.

    Luckily I didn't stop testing that day, nor subsequently on other occasions with both cameras. Lighting, the degree of shadow and highlight detail, contrast of the scene being captured and a multitude of other image charateristics can apparently alter how each camera records the subject across the visable spectrum of light. These subsequent images underlined at times how vastly different each camera's subsequent B&W image was when final post processed output of the respected files was examined both at screen resolution and in print. Again, aside from acuity, sometimes the differences were farily dramatic, regardless how hard I tried matching the file's look...at other times it was more subtle....and of course there were times the comparitive images from both cameras was sort of in-between the "extremes". Differences between the matched pairs often varied and much of these differences had to do with the tonality of the subject and the scene itself and most importantly how it was lit.

    Thats why I believe that only by actually testing out both cameras in a similar fashion, can one get a much better handle as to whether the B&W imagery produced by the MM and it's apparent strength over the M9 (in this regard), is worth it to the potential purchaser. It also allows them to make an assessment to the standards they set for themselves with regards to their own B&W imagery with film and prints from the wet darkroom. That so far has been my limited experience with the MM.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 11th February 2013 at 21:52.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Dave, don't cloud the issue with facts and reason.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Dave, don't cloud the issue with facts and reason.
    Sadly,the fact is you don't need either to champion an argument... only perception and opinion. Perception is truth though in the eye of the beholder and you can't quantify or argue perception.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Sadly,the fact is you don't need either to champion an argument... only perception and opinion. Perception is truth though in the eye of the beholder and you can't quantify or argue perception.
    But you can argue the fact the MM does outperform the M9 at high ISO. 6400 is a real option and I shoot the streets at 3200 and 6400 all the time and get clean files that I never could get at those ISOs with an M8 or M9. Now thats real and not just opinion.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
    But you can argue the fact the MM does outperform the M9 at high ISO. 6400 is a real option and I shoot the streets at 3200 and 6400 all the time and get clean files that I never could get at those ISOs with an M8 or M9. Now thats real and not just opinion.
    Believe me I know and M8/M9 only go up to ISO 2500. It was more in response to the people (well person) who says there's no difference. There is but maybe their eyes aren't sensitive to that area of the EM spectrum so they don't see the difference... or maybe they're just argumentative.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Believe me I know and M8/M9 only go up to ISO 2500. It was more in response to the people (well person) who says there's no difference. There is but maybe their eyes aren't sensitive to that area of the EM spectrum so they don't see the difference... or maybe they're just argumentative.
    I think they're both great tools. The mm is sharper and has more range than the M9 but I just love the color files from the M9.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Agreed. Different tool for different jobs. I've always wanted a dedicated B&W camera but didn't have $40K to spend on essentially a hobby (speaking on the Phase One Achromatic Back.)
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    I've had reasonable success shooting the M9 up to about ISO 5000 (ISO 160 +5 EV in LR4,) although I certainly wouldn't call it clean. Granted, like I've mentioned, I don't mind noise, and I often add grain to digital black and white shots. I'd still buy the MM, though, if I shot more B&W.

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