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Thread: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

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    How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Lovely camera. Limted camera Expensive camera.

    Keep it? as it probably be the only digital camera that can retain its value? For that purity of B&W pursuit?

    Or sell it, buy a new M240, which is probably as capable plus the colors, but it will be another mass produced camera that'll half in value in 2 years?

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    If you like to shoot in monochrome, if you like monochrome images, keep it and use it until it breaks down to be worthless in the used market.

    If you do not like monochrome sell it immediately for whatever price you can get.

    If you want to invest, perhaps look at gold or platinum. With finite reserves and ever increasing demand, they will keep their value.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Keep the Mono.

    Color? Look at the RX-1 ... I know limited at 35 but what a lens and sensor.

    18 months from now add a M240....

    Lenses hold value...bodies less so.

    Vivek has a point ... if you value your photography and skills....burn up the camera ... memories are neither cheap nor infinite ... when you look back it is nice to remember the sun, wind, smells and all the little elements that a photograph can evoke from our memory.

    The more you shoot the less you need a camera to see....

    JMHO.

    Bob

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Realized I did not answer your question....

    I would give up my S2-P before my Mono....just how I see the world I guess.

    Now if they came up with a S-Mono...

    Bob
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    The more you shoot the less you need a camera to see....
    Yes, for many, but another possible goal is to allow others to see and experience what you see, via the print. Still others shoot for the pleasure of shooting, and don't care if they or others see the photograph (Vivian Maier, for instance). Different strokes.

    Getting back to the OP's initial question, which seems a riddle: one doesn't feel remorse until after the fact, which makes answering the question in advance an impossibility. Beyond that, anyone who buys a camera as an investment has other issues IMHO.

    Jeff

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    I was close to sell my MM because I like both - b/w and color.
    But for some reason I find the camera special and even though I didnt shoot it that much I got some images I really like. And I enjoy using it a lot.
    So right now I will keep it.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    I'm still mourning the camera I had for 6 months.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    Lovely camera. Limted camera Expensive camera.

    Keep it? as it probably be the only digital camera that can retain its value? For that purity of B&W pursuit?

    Or sell it, buy a new M240, which is probably as capable plus the colors, but it will be another mass produced camera that'll half in value in 2 years?
    Ummmm....you think it will retain it's value in 3 years? It will drop like a rock as soon as an update is released, even ANNOUNCED. If it's successful, Leica will release an update. Don't buy or keep a camera body pretending it's going to hold it's value. Look at values of the M9. Sold for $7k. Up to about summer and fall of 2011 they sold for close or more than $6k used. Now they go for $4k used. That will happen to the MM.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    It will probably have a much longer life span because of its uniqueness, and passionate following.

    It's funny, I was meeting with another member from the forum today to sell my Mono, and he saw a single tiny scuff on the lens release button, probably a nail mark, that I did not notice. We ended up not doing the deal today to give him more time to think about if he could live with the imperfection; and I realized that it's probably a sign. I was on the fence and yesterday Jono's pictures from the M240 pushed me over. Now I think if it's probably a rushed decision.

    I would honor my commitment if he decide to take it but if not, i will not try to sell it again.



    Quote Originally Posted by jstaben View Post
    Ummmm....you think it will retain it's value in 3 years? It will drop like a rock as soon as an update is released, even ANNOUNCED. If it's successful, Leica will release an update. Don't buy or keep a camera body pretending it's going to hold it's value. Look at values of the M9. Sold for $7k. Up to about summer and fall of 2011 they sold for close or more than $6k used. Now they go for $4k used. That will happen to the MM.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    It will probably have a much longer life span because of its uniqueness, and passionate following.

    It's funny, I was meeting with another member from the forum today to sell my Mono, and he saw a single tiny scuff on the lens release button, probably a nail mark, that I did not notice. We ended up not doing the deal today to give him more time to think about if he could live with the imperfection; and I realized that it's probably a sign. I was on the fence and yesterday Jono's pictures from the M240 pushed me over. Now I think if it's probably a rushed decision.

    I would honor my commitment if he decide to take it but if not, i will not try to sell it again.
    Funny story on the nail mark....Leica users are a very picky bunch and most want to look at or baby their cameras more than use them.

    As far as life span, we don't have any idea bout what Leica may do. If they release a Monochrom M type 240 it's going to drop the prices on the MM fast.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    It will probably have a much longer life span because of its uniqueness, and passionate following.

    It's funny, I was meeting with another member from the forum today to sell my Mono, and he saw a single tiny scuff on the lens release button, probably a nail mark, that I did not notice. We ended up not doing the deal today to give him more time to think about if he could live with the imperfection; and I realized that it's probably a sign. I was on the fence and yesterday Jono's pictures from the M240 pushed me over. Now I think if it's probably a rushed decision.

    I would honor my commitment if he decide to take it but if not, i will not try to sell it again.
    hi There
    I think the question is really Do I Shoot Colour? If the answer is NO, then the monochrom is really a no-brainer, if the answer is YES then it's more complex.
    Personally, I like to shoot both, and I like to carry two bodies - one with a wide, one with a mid or gentle telephoto. With the monochrom I was beginning to think I needed four bodies!

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    I think the MM is the best digital RF that Leica ever produced (that includes the "M").

    I still would love to have a compact/lightweight and more versatile monochrome camera in a Sony NEX.

    Still...I am on track to acquire an MM, despite it being RF crippled.

    Well, it would be nice to have a spare. I doubt even the ones who really dance with an MM can even afford to think in those lines (or even the very well to do Leica nut would).

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    Still...I am on track to acquire an MM, despite it being RF crippled.
    Heretic Don't you mean RF enhanced?
    But I agree - it's a splendid no-compromise camera - and how many of those are there!

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Don't you mean RF enhanced?
    Really a function of ones personal visual acuity....once you pass the third decade it is a bit of a guess...or stay below 35 and zone focus.


    Bob

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    They can have my monochrom when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
    Brad Husick
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    Lovely camera. Limted camera Expensive camera.

    Keep it? as it probably be the only digital camera that can retain its value? For that purity of B&W pursuit?

    Or sell it, buy a new M240, which is probably as capable plus the colors, but it will be another mass produced camera that'll half in value in 2 years?
    The only value a camera has beyond nostalgia and the camera collecting hobby is whether it gets used and makes the photos you want to make. Constantly looking for something better while worrying about the money involved means to me that you're distracted from the goal at hand, which is to make photographs.

    "Equipment often gets in the way of Photography."

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    That's a wicked trap to fall into. My interpretation is like asking should I sell my hammer and buy a saw, because I need(want) a saw, but I'm afraid saw's wear out and lose value quicker than hammers.

    I'd say look at what you need first, then determine how important it is to you, then you'll know how much you want to spend (not invest, unless you're making money from photography). Then when you scratch your pride and joy (as inevitably it'll happen if you carry it around all the time) you'll feel OK, because it's more yours then than it ever was before.

    My tuppence worth

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    THe MM really, totally, sings for me...I have learned much from it, and suspect I have much more growth for it to inspire within me. It's become my favorite M body, period...M9 is fantastic too, and I have yet to touch the M240....

    But the MM allows an expanded creative freedom within the BW realm...a liberating experience on all accounts..
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    In many ways the monochrome makes little sense - until you see the files this baby delivers. I am enjoying the choice of a made for B&W file camera - like I enjoy the cameras I use with B&W film - sans all the hassle of development and scanning, plus the benefits of the delightful and peerless Leica lenses in front.

    The only negative experience I have had is having to use Lightroom for my DAM procedures instead of Aperture - which is troubling me because it represents a discontinuity. Nothing wrong with Lightroom btw - and lot going for it as well - but still I prefer Aperture for my digital asset management routine.

    I am happy to sell my S2 or any number of other cameras - well before the monochrome.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Hmm... been waiting more than 3 months for mine. And also have the M on pre-order. Considering canceling the M pre-order. Pre-buyers remorse on that.

    If you can swing the cost, which is substantial, I'd say keep the Monochrom.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    If you want to sell it, Ill give you a grand for it, i heard its terrible for colour

    Keep it, use it, and enjoy it, ...........so I can continue to live vicariously through you guys!

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Don't listen to Dude163. He's trying to lowball you. I will give you $1500.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    To me, that camera is bordering on a scam. In a blind test, one could never guess which is from a color sensor or from the monochom.

    I wouldn't regret selling it.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    i think, beyond the fact that other cameras files can be converted to monochrom, is th that the MM gives you the MENTALITY to think in black and wihite. That is what I treasure, rather than image quality.

    I am sure that future M's will deliver the same if not more pexiel counts. but making you think and compose in B&W?? only MM will do that

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    We ended up not doing the deal today to give him more time to think about if he could live with the imperfection; and I realized that it's probably a sign. I was on the fence and yesterday Jono's pictures from the M240 pushed me over. Now I think if it's probably a rushed decision.
    It's a sign. One thing I've learned as I approach fifty is that gut feel is pretty darned accurate. Very accurate in fact.

    I gave up my MM recently so that I could get a new tech camera lens. I WILL buy one though.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    To me, that camera is bordering on a scam. In a blind test, one could never guess which is from a color sensor or from the monochom.

    I wouldn't regret selling it.
    Blind tests are actually bordering on being a scam ... as any marketing researcher will tell you, who you select to do the testing with determines the outcome. It all depends on the sophistication of the test subject in the given field being compared side-by-side. They do not select people with discriminating and refined palates for Coke verses Pepsi taste tests, or any other culinary comparison.

    So, just because you, or even a majority of people, can't tell the difference, doesn't mean no one else can. Nor does it mean that a skilled photographer cannot produce excellent B&W results using a color digital camera ... however, there are differences.

    The main difference is one of approach. Leica Ms are desired by some because the rangefinder way of making a photograph strips away distractions like DOF effect of focal length in the viewfinder, or distortion from wide lenses or effects of telephoto compression ... forcing a concentration on what an image is about over what it looks like. Stripping color from the creative decision process is just another shift from "looks like" verses what the photo is "about".

    Doesn't matter if you buy that point-of-view, what matters is that others buy it, and therefore buy the camera for what it was designed to do for them. The B&W aesthetic needs no defending, it is well established and extremely long lived ... the MM is just an extension of that time proven photographic discipline so long dominated (and restricted) by B&W film.

    If one doesn't "get that", then the MM camera isn't their cup of tea. Nothing wrong about that either ... different strokes for different folks.

    -Marc
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    To me, that camera is bordering on a scam. In a blind test, one could never guess which is from a color sensor or from the monochom.
    It might very well be "bordering on a scam" because of the enhanced price (in reality, no considering there is no similar product out there for a full frame camera) but you have to be blind not to see the difference.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Really a function of ones personal visual acuity....once you pass the third decade it is a bit of a guess...or stay below 35 and zone focus.


    Bob


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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    It will probably have a much longer life span because of its uniqueness, and passionate following.

    It's funny, I was meeting with another member from the forum today to sell my Mono, and he saw a single tiny scuff on the lens release button, probably a nail mark, that I did not notice. We ended up not doing the deal today to give him more time to think about if he could live with the imperfection; and I realized that it's probably a sign. I was on the fence and yesterday Jono's pictures from the M240 pushed me over. Now I think if it's probably a rushed decision.

    I would honor my commitment if he decide to take it but if not, i will not try to sell it again.
    As I said before I was on the fence too.
    Overall I changed my opinion a bit from about the IQ. For X-Mas I printed some calenders with images from different cameras (5diii, OMD, S2, MM) with all good IQ - but those MM prints came out really impressive.
    And I also find the IQ of higher ISO also unique. IMO many DSLR with good high ISO like Canon or Nikon still look ath higher iSO like there is some noise reduction in raw goin on.
    I am not saying I could detect any MM shot from a b&w shot from another camera , but I believe the MM delivers excellent and biting IQ.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    "Bordering on a scam" - that is a very harsh statement.

    If you have worked with a monochrome file and then tried to match an M9 colourfile by converting to B&W and still can't see the difference ?? - with all respect I think you could do with maybe a course in basic processing technique.

    That ignores the obvious ISO advantages as well as tonality advantages you get from a non bayered chip....

    The Monochrom in my books rates equal to the XPan as remarkable products for those who can appreciate how well they do what they do.

    Of course it isn't an everything camera- the monochrom strugles with colour

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Doesnt the MM make good shots at ISO 10,000 the M9 cannot do that , lord knos my M8 cant, it only goes to ISO 2500!

    OK here we go:

    Red Dot Forum - ISO Test: Leica M Monochrom vs. Leica M9

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by dude163 View Post
    Doesnt the MM make good shots at ISO 10,000 the M9 cannot do that , lord knos my M8 cant, it only goes to ISO 2500!

    OK here we go:

    Red Dot Forum - ISO Test: Leica M Monochrom vs. Leica M9
    Yeah I kinda think that guy is either a Leica Troll or a Leica conspiracy theorist... He kinda pulled this "it's all a scam thing" with the Leica M-E newspaper article. I think he needs attention or just wants to stir people up personally.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    To me, that camera is bordering on a scam. In a blind test, one could never guess which is from a color sensor or from the monochom.

    I wouldn't regret selling it.
    You don't even own it.

    Well, in a blind test, you could not tell the difference between a Monochrom and a chicken. You really need vision. The only problem with your hypothoses is that the Monochrom actually has a different spectral response from a color camera. Also, it will give cleaner files as the photosites are getting more light. While you might not be able to tell, which is really a lack of experience on your part, that does not mean others that actually have experience cannot.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    The more I read here, the more I get the "not having bought remorse" There is, of course, a cure
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    You don't even own it.

    Well, in a blind test, you could not tell the difference between a Monochrom and a chicken. You really need vision. The only problem with your hypothoses is that the Monochrom actually has a different spectral response from a color camera. Also, it will give cleaner files as the photosites are getting more light. While you might not be able to tell, which is really a lack of experience on your part, that does not mean others that actually have experience cannot.
    Spending 7000$ on it might give me a super special subjective power to see how good it is. But since I don't own it, I can safely say that I'm objective a out it. Not subjective as you are, if you own one.

    Until now, there's not one single image from all the "brag about your monochrom" threads that made me want one. I looked at over 3000 images and not even one made me go "wow, this monochrom is something special".

    I don't believe that paying 7k$ just to have my BW mindset on is within the realm of normal thinking.

    This being said, I was simply answering the OP: I'd nevdr regret selling that camera at a good price. Especially sknce the M10 is right around the corner. Yes, M10. Not M-twoforty.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    Spending 7000$ on it might give me a super special subjective power to see how good it is. But since I don't own it, I can safely say that I'm objective a out it. Not subjective as you are, if you own one.

    Until now, there's not one single image from all the "brag about your monochrom" threads that made me want one. I looked at over 3000 images and not even one made me go "wow, this monochrom is something special".

    I don't believe that paying 7k$ just to have my BW mindset on is within the realm of normal thinking.

    This being said, I was simply answering the OP: I'd nevdr regret selling that camera at a good price. Especially sknce the M10 is right around the corner. Yes, M10. Not M-twoforty.
    LOL. So lets see, you have taken a subjective way to evaluate a camera to make your opinion objective? But the trouble is you simply don't know. You have no experience and so you simply have the personal opinion of an armchair warrior. But you do have a chip on your shoulder, which naturally is very "objective."

    Good luck with the M10.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    It's a sign. One thing I've learned as I approach fifty is that gut feel is pretty darned accurate. Very accurate in fact.

    I gave up my MM recently so that I could get a new tech camera lens. I WILL buy one though.
    Yes. I decided to keep it. I'll just work over time for two months to justify the decision

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    I think no one can really know how a person will respond to and use a specialized camera, such as the MM is. All they can do is relate their experieces with it (or possibly having worked with its files as I have done).

    Nothing substitutes for using said equipment and see how it fits into your photographic style and vision over a period of time. Sometimes it's a revalation to use and enjoy, sometimes an interesting fun and useful tool in the bag (so to speak) but as time goes on, not used as much as expected...and sometimes it ends up not being what one originally envisioned and how it would relate to elevating the quality and style of their photographic images. If the latter of these experiences ends up being the case, it will be apparent at that time that it may be wise to divest of the camera, without it possibly devaluing and maybe move onto something else. If it turns out to be an indespensable tool and something you cannot image being without, then you know you made the right choice.

    Until then, its hard for anyone to know how you'll eventually feel...but can only take a educated guess based on their own perceptions and experiences.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 7th February 2013 at 12:47.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    LOL. So lets see, you have taken a subjective way to evaluate a camera to make your opinion objective? But the trouble is you simply don't know. You have no experience and so you simply have the personal opinion of an armchair warrior. But you do have a chip on your shoulder, which naturally is very "objective."

    Good luck with the M10.
    How else am I supposed to be interested if not by looking at the forums and pictures?

    Please don't waste your energy trying to convert me.
    This is a problem in these internet days: every product owner becomes a virtual salesman for the company, in various forums. Like some people here trying to make me realize how good it is.

    Your "armchair" allegations just show how empty and funny your atracks are. If you knew who I am, who I work for and where my work goes and how much it sells for, you'd be asking me for help instead of being busy protecting your purchase in a cool way in front of virtual friends.

    And what's the so big deal if I don't "see" the value in the monochrom? Why do you have the need to protect it so much??

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    How else am I supposed to be interested if not by looking at the forums and pictures?

    Please don't waste your energy trying to convert me.
    This is a problem in these internet days: every product owner becomes a virtual salesman for the company, in various forums. Like some people here trying to make me realize how good it is.

    Your "armchair" allegations just show how empty and funny your atracks are. If you knew who I am, who I work for and where my work goes and how much it sells for, you'd be asking me for help instead of being busy protecting your purchase in a cool way in front of virtual friends.

    And what's the so big deal if I don't "see" the value in the monochrom? Why do you have the need to protect it so much??
    Chill man, I am just messing with you. I really don't think much about your opinion at all. Naturally, the OP wanted feedback from those with experience, but a guy like you doesn't need to be encumbered by facts.

    BTW, I don't own a Leica, never mind a Monochrom. And I am happy to bumble through life without the wealth of your experience--I really don't care to know who you are. I think I have a pretty good idea about your character from your enlightening posts.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    ...
    And what's the so big deal if I don't "see" the value in the monochrom? Why do you have the need to protect it so much??
    Probably the same reason you felt the need to bash it. I get if something doesn't work for you. Believe me I do. I went through a Canon dSLR, Micro 4/3, etc before coming to Leica M bodies. Do I think Canon is for me? Absolutely not and I do't have any strong desire to won any of their products. Do I think they're a ripoff because they don't work for me, my shooting style, and in some cases cost "Leica like" money... well no. I think the 1Dx is a great camera but I'd take the M9 (and it's outdated technology) over it everyday for what I do. Doesn't change the fact that it's an outstanding camera.

    In the case of the MM there's NOTHING else like it (that I'm aware of) short of the Achromatic MF backs. It's as simple as that If you can't see the difference in the tones between it and a color M (or any other color filtered sensor) then maybe your eyes aren't as sensitive. There is a difference though. Whether or not it's worth $8K is a personal financial choice but for me it will be... eventually. Like you I'm buying a Type 240 but that's more of a need. The MM is a desire for the currently best sensor in 35mm format B&W photography. It is what it is though.

    I think we all get it. You don't think it's worth it... FOR YOU.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    It will probably have a much longer life span because of its uniqueness, and passionate following.

    It's funny, I was meeting with another member from the forum today to sell my Mono, and he saw a single tiny scuff on the lens release button, probably a nail mark, that I did not notice. We ended up not doing the deal today to give him more time to think about if he could live with the imperfection; and I realized that it's probably a sign. I was on the fence and yesterday Jono's pictures from the M240 pushed me over. Now I think if it's probably a rushed decision.

    I would honor my commitment if he decide to take it but if not, i will not try to sell it again.

    He didn't take it because of the tiny invisible mark?
    In my experience, I'd now raise the price by 100$ for the lost time and energy. He wants it? 100$ extra.

    So this is where we are: a camera not selling because of an invisible mark. The fact that it's a camera is unimportant. It's not about a camera anymore, but about a status.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Before commenting on scam, vs not, one must try the camera to see if it fits one's preference. For me, regardless of output or final printed image, I find the MM to be incredibly flexibile and a fanastic option for black and white work, with tremendous flexibiltiy in the mid tones, that allows one to play with different looks in a way not possibly with the M9. Looking at thousands of images online only suggests that you are at least interested enough to look, but output from websized images is unlikely to reflect what we all see when at home editiing files from this fantastic camera. That being said, having processed images extensively, I find the MM to offer different tonality that is seen best in larger prints or on a calibrated monitor. The high ISO performance is also likely to be tops in the M lineup, even once the M240 is released...
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Yeah, he didn't want it because it has a very tiny nail mark on the lens release botton. He said that he'd rather have the scuffs be his own scuffs if he's paying retail price.

    I don't agree but I do see his point. When someone buys a 8k camera they want perfection, expecially in a leica. I am more of a user (but I still do try to take care of the camera, just not obsessed with it). So to each his own. I did advertise it as "like new" because I didn't notice it, so my bad. I offered 50 bucks off but I think it's more of an emotional thing. I appreciate his offer and candor but I took it as a sign not to sell. haha. I think we are both happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    He didn't take it because of the tiny invisible mark?
    In my experience, I'd now raise the price by 100$ for the lost time and energy. He wants it? 100$ extra.

    So this is where we are: a camera not selling because of an invisible mark. The fact that it's a camera is unimportant. It's not about a camera anymore, but about a status.
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    I hate debating with internet warriors, but here is the first image i saw that made me go

    " crud, the Monochrom is for real!" except instead of crud I said sh1t

    Leica Event 20120516-102 (1) | Photo This & That

    ISO 10000 JPG

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    Spending 7000$ on it might give me a super special subjective power to see how good it is.

    Until now, there's not one single image from all the "brag about your monochrom" threads that made me want one. I looked at over 3000 images and not even one made me go "wow, this monochrom is something special".

    I don't believe that paying 7k$ just to have my BW mindset on is within the realm of normal thinking.

    This being said, I was simply answering the OP: I'd nevdr regret selling that camera at a good price. Especially sknce the M10 is right around the corner. Yes, M10. Not M-twoforty.
    It is surprising how quickly a thread can degenerate into something that feels like it belongs on another site.....not how this forum usually runs.

    Couple of observations....and I do own a Monochrom and am sure that you did not like any of my posts....had I realized it was a "brag about your monochrome" thread I would not have posted...I and most persons here rely on information posted to help with questions concerning post process and available raw conversions....recently the Mono and the Sigma DP Merrills have had very few viable options. I took a few of Jono Slack's files and manipulated them and printed the results to see if the camera would work for me...no dealer at that time had one and they were not about to farm it out for my trials.

    I dont believe that any of us would willingly pay 7K to have a BW mindset on...actually this camera is a bargain. I passed on the aforementioned Achromatic Phase One back when I upgraded years ago from my P20 back to an H3D II 39. I thought that $47K was a bit much at that time. We pay $7K because Leica prices it so ... and it is not without a bit of trepidation. I have personally been paying Leica's prices since 1983 so I am used to the tariff structure.

    The camera is not without a number of great attributes...if they do not appeal to you then it would be a poor fit. I have been scammed many times...however, having owned Leica M6s, M7, MPs, M8, M8.2, M9-P and now the Mono if this is a scam I came out of it without any regrets...it closely replicates the feeling for me of my Mamiya 7, slow BW film and my Hasselblad 343 scanner...oh, how I hated scanning and spotting dust by the end of that relationship.

    I took the OP's original question as one reflecting a sense of doubt or buyer's remorse....as if he did not have enough personal experience at this level to decide whether time would increase its value for him personally. And no one will be able to answer that for him. And you are correct that if he gets his money out of the camera he has received a good price.

    But you know that.....

    My take on it all is that Leica charges a premium to employ skilled engineers and technicians in a very pricey European market and produces products that allow one to buy one copy that should be as close to spec as possible or they will correct it. If you are unwilling to play at that level...please do not impugn the rest of us who do.

    Bob
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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    The problem is not me as much as all the ultra defensiveness without properly reading what I was actually saying.
    Oh, I never said I disliked pics taken with the monochrom (yet you took it that way! It's just that none was taken with a monochrom that wouldn't have been possible with a M9.
    That's a subtle but solid difference.

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    The problem is not me as much as all the ultra defensiveness without properly reading what I was actually saying.
    Oh, I never said I disliked pics taken with the monochrom (yet you took it that way! It's just that none was taken with a monochrom that wouldn't have been possible with a M9.
    That's a subtle but solid difference.
    You are correct, that is a difference...and rereading all the comments I can see the point I think you were intending to get across. Perhaps the edge was perceived incorrectly and things continued on that track.

    M9 files will convert to monochrome but the M8 actually did a better job as its poor IR filtration gave a better spread for the red channel(?). I have done all three...and I do a mean color to bw conversion even without Silver Efex 2. Missing the ability to individually change colors does limit ones conversion with the Mono but there really is more detail in the middlle tones that one does not see with the Bayer sensor...not easily seen on the web...and may not be important to most. M9 really breaks at 1250 to 1600...not so for the Monochrom. But I normally shoot at 200 occasionally 800 if I need it...all those years shooting at 25.....

    I posit the camera is in one sense a limited output device...one that I am very pleased to work with at the present time.

    Regards,

    Bob

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    As Bob mentioned, the M8/M8.2 did quite a credible job with B&W imagery precisely due to it's increased sensitivity to IR..which resulted in improved tonality over that generally seen with the M9. Of course the M8/M8.2 doesn't have the high ISO nor increased DR of the MM nor it's acuity, among quite a few other things. Subtle differences in files, espcially seen at web resolutions or even at full Rez on a monitor, often translate to something far more important when that image's output is to print.

    How substatial these incremental changes are is dependent on so many factors. The decriminating tastes of the viewer, the subject matter being photographed, lighting, in camera settings necessary to capture the image such as selected ISO and a whole host of other paramters come into play. As has been stated often...sometimes to extract these small but important differences, often results in a substatial outlay of dollars over other choices in cameras.

    Just look at lenses for example. Whereas some are content with a decent consumer level lens when used to make a 8x12" print, others find it deficent when compared to the same image made with a pro grade lens that has superior optical performance, even when those differences are small....and that increase in optical performance may not be in the way of sharpness, but simply how the lens draws an image. Some will notice these differences, some will not....some will noticed but think it's not worth the additional cost and some again will think it is.

    In photography, subjectivity most often plays such an important role in how we all individualistically perceive and value the charateristics of an image as well as the equipment we use to make that image.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: How much of a seller's remorse would you get if you sold your Monochrom

    LOL, sorry I'm late to this thread, but someone mentioned something about a blind test! Kinda rules out photography as a whole; no? :P
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