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Evaluating the New M

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Premature ? Production samples aren t really available and we all know that working with Leica s DNG s can only provide a glimpse of the potential .

Why do these seem so important to some and nit picking obsessive pixel peeping to others . Who cares and why? And how can photographers come to such different conclusions .

The answer appears to be based how you see three factors affecting your situation :

1. Economics ....is the new M so compelling that you would plunk down another $4K to trade out from your M9 ? Would the benefits out weigh any perceived loss of CCD magic (real but in the eye of the beholder). As always , are there better alternatives out there at lower prices .

2. Aesthetic... this is the CCD /CMOS debate . The most common discussion is will we lose the amazing CCD aesthetic and if so will my results now appear as N/C/S . But the other dimension is that the results will look different when grouped with prior work done with an M9 .

3. Time ..this doesn t get discussed (seems like ever ) but each new system takes months to fine tune . Add in several iterations of firmware and updates to raw conversion software and its 4-6 months before I hit my stride with a new kit . Some really enjoy this phase of new gear and seem to seek out new challenges ..others find it draining .

Its hard to debate these three factors in a vacuum ..without knowledge of each others work . I shoot primarily street and travel and have the ability to travel extensively . .I want my 2007 photographs taken with the M8 to work with my 2013 photographs taken with a new M . Thus having an aesthetic that shows a family resemblance makes some sense . The m9 and the S2 were just perfect .

My family photographs are an entirely different matter . There is something magic about pulling together a group of family pictures taken over generations . Not a bit of consistency in anything other than the faces . Black and white,faded color prints ,kodachrome doesn t seem to matter when I see my girls at 5 and 2 together .

When I took weddings ...I wanted reasonably consistent within the event ..but the look could and did change each year with new gear and new techniques .

So any evaluation will of course depend on your POV. :chug:
 
V

Vivek

Guest
If one has a bunch of 6 bit coded lenses, the answer is simple.

For a newcomer, the new M is a tough sell.
 

Double Negative

Not Available
Meh. I like my M9. It is what it is, I expect no more, no less. I don't need to read menus (much) to operate it - and I'm generally very happy with the results. Okay, so it doesn't do "high ISO" so well. That's why I have fast lenses. ;)

Video? EVFs? More reliance on interacting with menus... I could do without all of those.

Using the LCD to focus, with peaking, etc. okay - that I can see.

I guess we'll all have our reasons for or against. That's okay. We're still waiting for that "perfect camera." ;)
 

douglasf13

New member
The new sensor, video features, live view, etc. don't interest me much. The weathersealing, quieter shutter and faster operation do interest me, but I'm not sure that it is enough to warrant a trade up. I may wait for the next model, since the M9 is still relatively new to me.

To be honest, I also don't really love the overall aesthetic of the new camera, from the thumb wheel lump, to the lack of the rangefinder light window and larger dot, etc., but that isn't enough to deter me. We'll see. Banding from shooting multiple shots consecutively in lowlight does bother me with my M9, but I don't know if that will also exist in the new M.
 

airfrogusmc

Well-known member
I'm anxious to see the next generation of the M-E will be. I have no interest in video or FPS but the CMOS sensor with better low light capability does interest me. I do love the M9 to. Just would need better low light performance if and when I switch to all Leica in the future.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I simply skipped the M9 after all my issues I had with the M8 :-(

I said to myself let's skip the M9 and wait for the next model. Now the M finally arrived!

And while on paper it seems to do all what I wanted and asked for (especially higher and better ISO) I am no longer sure if I will buy one. Although I have all of the M lenses till 2009 and all coded.

But I meanwhile acquired so many other great camera (systems) like the OMD and the D800E, which actually more that I ever could imagine cover all my needs and I am not sure if I should give all the hassle with a new M a try again - especially for that price. Would it not be better to just invest some more money into my existing systems and save the rest for really exciting news?

Just not sure at this point in time but will see ....
 

Jeff S

New member
So any evaluation will of course depend on your POV.
Yep, and my typical POV favors the 2m frame lines on the new M, which is one reason why I prefer the M8.2 over the M9.

Apart from the obviously important IQ factor, the M also appeals for its potentially better low light capabilities, longer battery life, more efficient processing, quieter shutter, weather sealing, and focus enhancements with longer lenses.

But, no rush; any digital M is up to most tasks...for my needs.

Jeff
 

airfrogusmc

Well-known member
I simply skipped the M9 after all my issues I had with the M8 :-(

I said to myself let's skip the M9 and wait for the next model. Now the M finally arrived!

And while on paper it seems to do all what I wanted and asked for (especially higher and better ISO) I am no longer sure if I will buy one. Although I have all of the M lenses till 2009 and all coded.

But I meanwhile acquired so many other great camera (systems) like the OMD and the D800E, which actually more that I ever could imagine cover all my needs and I am not sure if I should give all the hassle with a new M a try again - especially for that price. Would it not be better to just invest some more money into my existing systems and save the rest for really exciting news?



Just not sure at this point in time but will see ....
I love my MM.....The low light performance is truly amazing. The files when talking sharpness have been compared to the Nikon 36 MP D800 and its half the MPs. At 6400 ISO
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/489271-post78.html
 

edwardkaraa

New member
I don't understand the angst that comes with every new camera body. It's like the entire world future depends on that. I am very sure the M will be a great camera, that it will have some quirks, that leica will fix most of those quirks within 6 months, that I will buy one within a couple of months after Leica fixes the quirks. In the meanwhile I am enjoying my M9 and I'm not even following the bickering in the M threads because it's a waste of my time.
 

ashwinrao1

Active member
I love my M9P and MM...I think that the M240 will be great, but I am currently not in a big rush to acquire one. We'll see if things change when my dealer calls ;)
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
I think he means he's taking a wait and see approach until they're readily available as he's ecstatic with the M9P/MM still right now... At least that's how I took it.
Of course ....but when the dealer calls my bet is that he takes the new M ...:)
 

edwardkaraa

New member
So I should have said: I stopped reading the M threads because of the bickering. We're not all native English speakers around here.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
I don't understand the angst that comes with every new camera body. It's like the entire world future depends on that. I am very sure the M will be a great camera, that it will have some quirks, that leica will fix most of those quirks within 6 months, that I will buy one within a couple of months after Leica fixes the quirks. In the meanwhile I am enjoying my M9 and I'm not even following the bickering in the M threads because it's a waste of my time.
Good point ...we must be coming at it from a different perspective ? In my case (which my guess is not typical but still relevant to some ) ...the M is my primary system . Because of a desire to always have two bodies available for travel ..I have three M9 s . I can t plan a shooting trip of 8-10 days and have equipment thats not functioning . I shoot always with two bodies ..so having one down would be a real issue . Its all personal projects but its not much different from a professional requirement and I approach it that way .

So a new M is a big deal for me . First I need to get two bodies(and sell at least two of the three) ..which will take probably until the end of summer . Then I need to spend a ton of time testing and refining my post processing to achieve a consistent aesthetic or look .

Even going from the M8.2 to the M9 was no fun . Two of my three RF wouldn t focus to infinity . One of my sensors cracked . Three or four service requirements in the first 3 months ..each a 4-6 week out of service . I hope the new M is better but their is no evidence that Leica even recognizes this issue . (M8,M9,S2 all had these problems ).

I expect similar issues with the new M and as you can see ...a number of very experienced M users are on the fence . The aren t convinced that the benefits of the new M are worth being a beta tester for Leica .

The thread was an attempt to have a reasonable discussion about perspectives based on different priorities for the new M .
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The one issue here is accepting Leica to take 6 months to clear the quirks. Not all of us are that patient to wait and from a Pros seat what do you do with clients today. My M8 spent more time in Solms than in my hands and that was a problem. I have not come back to Leica for many reasons and this is one of them . Yes they have gotten better I will give them that but beyond a couple weeks for maybe a profile alone is too much time lapsed. For me I can never be a out if the gate buyer with Leica. Even the D800 was ready to go but it took a couple weeks for the profile for C1. That's about as long as some of us can wait it out. I would love to get back in someday but it will not be for Pro shooting. I just can't depend on there service and firmware timeliness to fix the quirks. But no doubt love to have one for personal work but honestly ill go with a M9 CCDS sensor since I'm loaded for bear with CMOS. But that's my perspective and not everyone else's. I always loved Leica stuff but from my seat there is much more than just buying in involved. Service, support and stuff like that are more important than for the hobbyist. Damn shame too as I like shooting them but the money outlay for two big systems is just not there for me now.
 

Double Negative

Not Available
A very valid set of points there, Guy. I feel the same way about Apple (or other tech)... Don't buy a v1.0 product! Wait until v1.1 at the least.
 
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