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New M Delayed Until May

S

sisoje

New member
What is all the panic about? Pre order lists????...

Funny!

I would never buy a camera on pre-order list... I did it long time ago with Canon 1Ds, and never again. It is just silly. Manufacturers have no obligation to be "on the clock" for any delivery of new product. They have no binding contract with all future buyers who willingly put them selfs (and payed in advance to dealers) on the "lists". All those dealer's list mean $h*t...
If the potential buyers are not happy with "estimated" delivery dates, they can take their bussines somewhere else. They are not forced to buy expected product. Period. This panic and silly comments from people who have "sleepless nights" because their "new toy" is not shipping yet: grow up. It is just a camera! Not a life saving kidney...
 
M

monza

Active member
I don't recall anyone talking about contracts. I don't see any panic here. I do see a lot of silly statements, such as about kidneys. :)

However it must be said, again, that product delays don't do anything to help the goodwill of the brand. And Leica has had their share of self-inflicted wounds in the relatively recent past. It just doesn't engender confidence.

Hopefully for Leica this is simply an unfounded rumor, and much ado about nothing.
 
glenerrolrd

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
There seems to be three groups on this thread . Those that are disturbed or at least concerned about the rumored delay . Those that believe that Leica is just being cautious and thorough ..getting it right is important . And maybe a third who could care less ..they are happy with their current equipment ,never planned or wanted to be anywhere on any wait list . Thus they aren t really affected and think its OK to tell everyone else they are "morons".

It would be great if those that really aren t affected ,could care less ....go find something else to do with your time . Really do you think its OK to degrade others points of view to some how feel superior . Its really not OK and its become a pattern on this thread .

For those that actually have a some stake in the rumored delay ... I would ask ..please state the basis for your perspective . Did you buy a new M8 and live thru the introduction. Have you sent cameras to Solms for repair . If you think Leica will get it ....why?

I ve stated my experience and supported my views with evidence both from Leica and really from any Product Company . I watch the market everyday and I can assure you that product delays especially on core products like the M series ..would not be well received . They are generally indicative of problems identified late in the product introduction cycle . The new M represents a huge change from the digital technology introduced with the M8/M9 and even the S2 .

So what ? Well its seems that the smart money is moving to the sidelines and taking a wait and see approach . I base that on a dozen emails to current owners of the m9 and S2 ....all who are on wait lists .
 
Seascape

Seascape

New member
Just a general response about manufacturing, and hi tech manufacturing in particular.
I have worked in the manufacturing of hi tech products (primarily aerospace) for many years. There is a very long cycle from design through proof of principle testing, to prototype manufacture and reliability qualification testing, before you get to production hardware assembly. But once you get to a stage where we believe Leica is now (software and firmware finalization as a result of beta testing) - late in the process as Roger suggests, and you have a problem it is a BIG problem.

That is where tough decisions have to be made.

Do you make a quick fix for the first production units and cut in a design change in later production batches?

Is the problem severe enough that a redesign/remanufacture of a critical component is required?

Do you live with the problem for now and do a model change later?

All these decisions have a huge impact on delivery and obviously revenues, and as a result are very tough decisions.

I have no idea what Leica's situation is, however Roger's point about having a problem this late in the manufacturing cycle is important to understand.

Let's hope that there isn't a design/hardware problem.
 
A

algrove

Well-known member
I am leaving my name high on a list. Whenever it ships I will enjoy my R lenses since right now my Pelican cases holding my R's are being dusted off once a week.

Roger, there will always be opinions given here-some count and most don't. Is there actually a delay? Is the delay real? If yes, is the delay bad?

Frankly if I am very high on a list and if I receive an M in April I will feel there was no delay.

I would say Yes-there is a delay, if we get beyond April and still no cameras are being delivered because after that month to me it is no longer early 2013.

I would also say Yes-the delay is real, if we are in the month of May and still no deliveries of the new camera have occurred, it will indicate to me there are still some serious lingering issues yet to be resolved otherwise they would be shipping. Perhaps some beta testers have found some very serious issues. Too red? Video? Frankly, I could care less about video-so I say today and without trying it. My new 5D3 has video, but I have not even thought about using it.

Actually I bought the 5D3 in order to use my R lenses, but so far I cannot get the dandelion chip to work for me since with my failing eyesight I need focus confirmation on that camera.

One final point that some have pooh-hoo'd. Leica's FY ends 31 March. Whatever product they ship by that date creates sales and accounts receivable-as good as gold to any investor who wants to see results sales results instead of excess inventory in the event they would want to divest at any future date.
 
J

Jeff S

New member
glenerrolrd said:
There seems to be three groups on this thread . Those that are disturbed or at least concerned about the rumored delay . Those that believe that Leica is just being cautious and thorough ..getting it right is important . And maybe a third who could care less ..they are happy with their current equipment ,never planned or wanted to be anywhere on any wait list . Thus they aren t really affected and think its OK to tell everyone else they are "morons".
Click to expand...
Perhaps I'm in a 4th group (post #9)...I'm not surprised by the delay, expect even more time to sort out inevitable bugs, and I'm not getting worked up about any of it, content to use my M8.2s in the meantime.

I held on to my film Ms even after the M8 introduction, waiting to see how things transpired. Only after the M8.2 release, and even then waiting to make sure things were well sorted, did I make the transition to a digital M.

Then, after release of the M9, I again waited for issues to emerge, and they did. But I was again in no rush, and after waiting through some fixes and firmware updates, I tested the camera against my M8.2 based on my specific needs and preferences. For many reasons, irrespective of price, I decided that the M8.2 was a better fit.

Now I'm intrigued by the M, especially the potentially better weather sealing, the incorporation of 2m frame lines, the supposedly quieter shutter re-cock, faster Maestro processing and longer battery life, and the potential to use longer lenses. But IQ is of course unknown, and the essentially all new camera will have bugs IMO, no matter how long the current delay. After sufficient time, I'll give it a test; if it passes, great; if not, I'll keep on trucking.

Jeff
 
glenerrolrd

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
No problem at all with different opinions . I think its great to shape perspective based on different ways of looking at things .

Would prefer the opinions were focused on the topic ...not the credibility of the person posting .
 
J

Jeff S

New member
Absolutely. My opinion only works for me; I share it only as information, without any intent to judge or influence others. 'Whatever works' is my philosophy, and choices are good.

Jeff
 
B

BANKER1

Member
This morning B&H changed their message on the new Leica M camera. It now reads "New item, Available for pre-order". Could it be that they created this whole tempest in a teapot?

It may be that the new camera will actually begin shipping within a couple of weeks.

Greg
 
D

dalfrednix

Guest
algrove said:
I am leaving my name high on a list. Whenever it ships I will enjoy my R lenses since right now my Pelican cases holding my R's are being dusted off once a week.

Roger, there will always be opinions given here-some count and most don't. Is there actually a delay? Is the delay real? If yes, is the delay bad?

Frankly if I am very high on a list and if I receive an M in April I will feel there was no delay.

I would say Yes-there is a delay, if we get beyond April and still no cameras are being delivered because after that month to me it is no longer early 2013.

I would also say Yes-the delay is real, if we are in the month of May and still no deliveries of the new camera have occurred, it will indicate to me there are still some serious lingering issues yet to be resolved otherwise they would be shipping. Perhaps some beta testers have found some very serious issues. Too red? Video? Frankly, I could care less about video-so I say today and without trying it. My new 5D3 has video, but I have not even thought about using it.

Actually I bought the 5D3 in order to use my R lenses, but so far I cannot get the dandelion chip to work for me since with my failing eyesight I need focus confirmation on that camera.

One final point that some have pooh-hoo'd. Leica's FY ends 31 March. Whatever product they ship by that date creates sales and accounts receivable-as good as gold to any investor who wants to see results sales results instead of excess inventory in the event they would want to divest at any future date.
Click to expand...
Ihave wanted a Leica rangefinder for several years and finally decided on the new M last fall; I'm first on the list at a small Leica store in NY, but if the delay is extended to say, June 1, I will REMOVE my name from the list and move on to a different camera. I currently have a Nex camera with Leica lens.
 
M

monza

Active member
To put all this in perspective, at typical production throughput, even if it technically starts shipping in say, late February, many people aren't going to see them til end of summer or even later.
 
M

MirekE

New member
I would speculate that this is just a software that needs to be completed and the cameras are already actually being made. So when they release, they will have larger stock of pre-made cameras to satisfy larger part of the preorders at once and the delay, if any, will impact only people on the very top of the waiting lists.
 
StephenPatterson

StephenPatterson

New member
MirekE said:
I would speculate that this is just a software that needs to be completed and the cameras are already actually being made. So when they release, they will have larger stock of pre-made cameras to satisfy larger part of the preorders at once and the delay, if any, will impact only people on the very top of the waiting lists.
Click to expand...
Dream on...

If you really believe that Leica production is churning away, building thousands upon thousands of M240s before a final engineering release, then I have a bridge to sell you here in Cambodia. If for no other reason than cash flow there is no way Leica management would allow purchasing and production to build a huge stockpile of semi-finished goods inventory (with the possibility that more Engineering Change Orders might come down the pipe) months ahead of a final engineering release.
 
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jonoslack

jonoslack

Active member
StephenPatterson said:
Dream on...

If you really believe that Leica production is churning away, building thousands upon thousands of M240s before a final engineering release, then I have a bridge to sell you here in Cambodia. If for no other reason than cash flow there is no way Leica management would allow purchasing and production to build a huge stockpile of semi-finished goods inventory (with the possibility that more Engineering Change Orders might come down the pipe) months ahead of a final engineering release.
Click to expand...
HI Stephen
If Mirek is right, then it wouldn't be an engineering release, but a firmware release.
Different thing I'd say
 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
jonoslack said:
HI Stephen
If Mirek is right, then it wouldn't be an engineering release, but a firmware release.
Different thing I'd say
Click to expand...
Agreed. Leica has allowed some beta images to be published, and perhaps they are tweaking firmware based on some of the feed-back?

Also, I wonder if the Leica captive stores and boutiques will get first production runs, with a mere trickle going to other re-sellers?

Marc
 
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