New M Delayed Until May

[StephenPatterson]

HI Stephen
If Mirek is right, then it wouldn't be an engineering release, but a firmware release.
Different thing I'd say

Hardware or software it's still a release from engineering to purchasing and production. Some aggressive companies jump the gun and begin large scale purchase of components and even production prior to the final sign off from the engineering department, but it's a risk/reward decision that would require full support of senior management.

I realize that Leica is trying to be more like Apple, but to me this sounds a little too unorthodox for our friends in Solms.

 

[algrove]

Somewhere I read a thread about the possibility of overheating during video usage. If that is the case, then it's more than "just" software.

Perhaps, Jono won't tell us he had video problems, but he did mention that he took plenty of video of the inside of his bag. Maybe that's what kept him warm while skiing-video overheating!

In the meantime I am contemplating getting an RX-1 for street shooting. Why not? USD3k versus an equivalent 10k Leica kit. CL size, FF, 24MP, AF-the M will not have that, f2.0 Zeiss lens with excellent looking MTF (not that I study MTF charts), etc. OK it does not have interchangeable lenses, but if I use another camera for most other shooting and use a Leica for 35mm street photography why not save the USD7k? Then I can get the new 200-400 Canon lens!

Any thoughts?

 

[StephenPatterson]

In the meantime I am contemplating getting an RX-1 for street shooting. Why not? USD3k versus an equivalent 10k Leica kit. CL size, FF, 24MP, AF-the M will not have that, f2.0 Zeiss lens with excellent looking MTF (not that I study MTF charts), etc. OK it does not have interchangeable lenses, but if I use another camera for most other shooting and use a Leica for 35mm street photography why not save the USD7k? Then I can get the new 200-400 Canon lens!

Any thoughts?

Yeah, apples and pears. You know you will get the new M (as will I), but that doesn't mean you can't get the RX1 and a ton of other stuff as well.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Somewhere I read a thread about the possibility of overheating during video usage. If that is the case, then it's more than "just" software.

Perhaps, Jono won't tell us he had video problems, but he did mention that he took plenty of video of the inside of his bag. Maybe that's what kept him warm while skiing-video overheating!

In the meantime I am contemplating getting an RX-1 for street shooting. Why not? USD3k versus an equivalent 10k Leica kit. CL size, FF, 24MP, AF-the M will not have that, f2.0 Zeiss lens with excellent looking MTF (not that I study MTF charts), etc. OK it does not have interchangeable lenses, but if I use another camera for most other shooting and use a Leica for 35mm street photography why not save the USD7k? Then I can get the new 200-400 Canon lens!

Any thoughts?

On the Rx 1 ..the most significant factor is the lack of a built in VF . Lets assume that you are familiar with and enjoy the use of a RF camera ...if so you have the choice of a add on OVF (zeiss 35mm FOV) or a EVF that fits in the hot shoe .

One of the Magnum photographers posted on his blog that he loved the camera ..except it was hard to frame and focus (in comparison to his Leica) .

If your photography is relaxed and slow paced (like travel can be ) you can get used to the limitation .

My POV is either spend more on a used M and a 35/2 zeiss or spend less and get the new Fuji X100s .

No denying the camera size,build and IQ is pretty fantastic .

 

[MirekE]

Dream on...

If you really believe that Leica production is churning away, building thousands upon thousands of M240s before a final engineering release, then I have a bridge to sell you here in Cambodia. If for no other reason than cash flow there is no way Leica management would allow purchasing and production to build a huge stockpile of semi-finished goods inventory (with the possibility that more Engineering Change Orders might come down the pipe) months ahead of a final engineering release.

All I said is a pure speculation. I have no insight into Leica's manufacturing and decision making process. The information, that the cameras have been manufactured for several months now comes from another Leica-related forum.

 

[ptomsu]

The delay is more than ok, so hopefully the final product will be really ready and great - I really hope so for Leica!

For me I have decided to wait at least another year and see how the M does in practical long term use, before I put my money in again - sorry but too much burned with the M8 some years ago.

Unfortunately time runs and so we will see other GREAT products from other vendors meanwhile and as already stated the Leica advantage (M advantage) keeps shrinking even more

 

[douglasf13]

On the Rx 1 ..the most significant factor is the lack of a built in VF . Lets assume that you are familiar with and enjoy the use of a RF camera ...if so you have the choice of a add on OVF (zeiss 35mm FOV) or a EVF that fits in the hot shoe .

One of the Magnum photographers posted on his blog that he loved the camera ..except it was hard to frame and focus (in comparison to his Leica) .

If your photography is relaxed and slow paced (like travel can be ) you can get used to the limitation .

My POV is either spend more on a used M and a 35/2 zeiss or spend less and get the new Fuji X100s .

No denying the camera size,build and IQ is pretty fantastic .

Yeah, I used NEX cameras for quite a while, and an X100 for months, and, while both are capable and great little cameras, it doesn't quite compare to manual focusing with an OVF, IMO.

The X100's OVF was pretty cool, but the main issue for me was that, unlike a rangefinder/SLR OVF or any mirrorless EVF, there is no visual confirmation as to whether you've focused on your intended target, so you'll occasionally find that you've focused on something behind your subject when the camera tells you that focus is locked, and the parallax doesn't help the situation. Of course, you can just use the EVF of the X100, but that kind of defeated the purpose, for me.

If the RX1 had a built-in EVF and 50mm lens, it would have been more tempting to me, but after shooting NEX cameras for years, which operate similarly to the RX1, I'd still prefer M cameras.

 

[algrove]

So what I understand from what I am from the above posts (other than pears) is that if the RX-1 had an EVF (which is coming-maybe even before the M is released) or an OVF (which is currently offered) then it might be a better option for street/candid/environmental portraiture use.

Just to confirm a face to face conversation with a Leica Boutique store today, they were told last week that the M will not come out before 30 April. This seems to jive with the B&H website from last week now changed for some reason. Pressure from the manufacturer?

 

[ashwinrao1]

I have the RX1 with an EVF...great combo for street, if you like the 35 mm field of view. It focuses sufficiently fast, and is unobtrustive. That being said, I find the M system with OVF to be perfect for street, and I don't think that any OVF on the M will improve the speed by which I can focus using the M....the RX1's EVF is superior in specs and refresh rate to the M's coming EVF, from what I have gathered (higher MP count, very little to no lag in refresh rate on the RX1). As douglas mentioned, an RX with built in EVF and 50 mm equiv would have been better suited to my taste, but the 35 mm frame line works well as well...

 

[douglasf13]

So what I understand from what I am from the above posts (other than pears) is that if the RX-1 had an EVF (which is coming-maybe even before the M is released) or an OVF (which is currently offered) then it might be a better option for street/candid/environmental portraiture use.

It really just depends on how much you enjoy rangefinder photography. I think I burned through 4 mirrorless bodies in two years in an attempt to find something that suited me, in terms of enjoyment. When I finally sucked it up and bought a digital M, it finally felt just right.

At the risk of a car analogy, it's kind of like comparing a Suburu WRX to an older Porsche. One may be technologically superior, while the other may be more fun to drive.

 

[algrove]

The main reason I am exploring small AF cameras as my eyesight is failing and the M will help with EVF, but any camera that I have to hold out to use is a forget it for me. I just do not know if Sony offers up -7 diopter correction.

I got my 5D3 for AF and I must say that the Canon has those little things that count for me. For example, you can get a -4 diopter padded eye piece (US$32) and use it with the on body diopter wheel to dial in up -7 if needed. OK it does not correct for astigmatism, but luckily mine is minor.

If Leica has an older group who need more help with focusing, which I constantly read about all over the place, why can't they offer up to -7 correction eye pieces? The only way I can use my M9 is with the Walter eyepiece-$600!

On LL Reichman mentioned if they were put an EVF into the RX-1 then it would have to be bigger, defeating some of its small package benefits.

To use the auto analogy, if you can't see out of the windshield of one car over the other, your choices are limited, get the car that you can drive. I know about cars having raced for 52 years and having to give it up this year. It was very hard watching for the first time at Sebring this year during the recent PCA race. At least the guy I trained years ago now wins every race he enters.

 

[fotografz]

The main reason I am exploring small AF cameras as my eyesight is failing and the M will help with EVF, but any camera that I have to hold out to use is a forget it for me. I just do not know if Sony offers up -7 diopter correction.

I got my 5D3 for AF and I must say that the Canon has those little things that count for me. For example, you can get a -4 diopter padded eye piece (US$32) and use them with the on body wheel to dial in up -7 if needed. OK it does not correct for astigmatism, but luckily mine is minor.

If Leica has an older group who need more help with focusing, which I constantly read about all over the place, why can't they offer up to -7 correction eye pieces?

See your Optometrist while you still can.

I was about to throw in the towel and abandon my much loved Leica Ms ... even a -5 diopter didn't cut it. I couldn't manually focus in slightly dim light to save my life.

Diagnosed with Cataracts and Astigmatism, I went to an eye surgeon who removed the Cataracts and implanted Toric lenses to correct my astigmatism.

I'm back to nailing focus with a Nocti 0.95 wide open in light my AF cameras are hunting in.

-Marc

 

[algrove]

See your Optometrist while you still can.

I was about to throw in the towel and abandon my much loved Leica Ms ... even a -5 diopter didn't cut it. I couldn't manually focus in slightly dim light to save my life.

Diagnosed with Cataracts and Astigmatism, I went to an eye surgeon who removed the Cataracts and implanted Toric lenses to correct my astigmatism.

I'm back to nailing focus with a Nocti 0.95 wide open in light my AF cameras are hunting in.

-Marc

Thanks, Marc. I am 20/20 corrected now in my one good eye.

 

[douglasf13]

The main reason I am exploring small AF cameras as my eyesight is failing and the M will help with EVF, but any camera that I have to hold out to use is a forget it for me. I just do not know if Sony offers up -7 diopter correction.

I got my 5D3 for AF and I must say that the Canon has those little things that count for me. For example, you can get a -4 diopter padded eye piece (US$32) and use it with the on body diopter wheel to dial in up -7 if needed. OK it does not correct for astigmatism, but luckily mine is minor.

If Leica has an older group who need more help with focusing, which I constantly read about all over the place, why can't they offer up to -7 correction eye pieces? The only way I can use my M9 is with the Walter eyepiece-$600!

On LL Reichman mentioned if they were put an EVF into the RX-1 then it would have to be bigger, defeating some of its small package benefits.

To use the auto analogy, if you can't see out of the windshield of one car over the other, your choices are limited, get the car that you can drive. I know about cars having raced for 52 years and having to give it up this year. It was very hard watching for the first time at Sebring this year during the recent PCA race. At least the guy I trained years ago now wins every race he enters.

Gotcha. If you need AF, then that is a different ballgame.

As far as the RX1 and EVF go, I personally would have gladly traded another inch of height on the camera for a built-in EVF. Having used the NEX-5N and EVF, I found the EVF made the camera carry larger, and the EVF would get snagged on things, although I did love the tilt feature, so it's a trade off.

 

[algrove]

Gotcha. If you need AF, then that is a different ballgame.

As far as the RX1 and EVF go, I personally would have gladly traded another inch of height on the camera for a built-in EVF. Having used the NEX-5N and EVF, I found the EVF made the camera carry larger, and the EVF would get snagged on things, although I did love the tilt feature, so it's a trade off.

So the M will not be that much different with its EVF, I guess.

For me, that RX-1 looks like the only small camera with AF. Just wish I could find out exactly how many minus diopters you can dial in and maybe plus get a screw-in or clip on like I explained above with the 5D3 in post #91.

 

[monza]

Also, I wonder if the Leica captive stores and boutiques will get first production runs, with a mere trickle going to other re-sellers?

This is the first major release of a new body (not withstanding the M-E and Monochrom) so this is the sixty four dollar question that long-time dealers have been curious about ever since the rumors of corporate owned stores began.

I know about cars having raced for 52 years and having to give it up this year. It was very hard watching for the first time at Sebring this year during the recent PCA race. At least the guy I trained years ago now wins every race he enters.

Very cool. Longtime PCA member here. Will be at the TWS race in March, and Circuit of the Americas in May.

 

[Chuck Jones]

See your Optometrist while you still can.

I was about to throw in the towel and abandon my much loved Leica Ms ... even a -5 diopter didn't cut it. I couldn't manually focus in slightly dim light to save my life.

Diagnosed with Cataracts and Astigmatism, I went to an eye surgeon who removed the Cataracts and implanted Toric lenses to correct my astigmatism.

I'm back to nailing focus with a Nocti 0.95 wide open in light my AF cameras are hunting in.

-Marc

Now that is investing money into a pair of lenses we can all relate to! :facesmack:

 

[Shashin]

Not to take this too far off topic, but a 35mm f/2 Summicron cost a little more than an RX-1. If you like working with two cameras, instead of buying the Leica lens, you could get the sensor-with-lens product from Sony. With the new test reports coming out for the RX-1, you could end up with a better lens as well.

 

[jonoslack]

Not to take this too far off topic, but a 35mm f/2 Summicron cost a little more than an RX-1. If you like working with two cameras, instead of buying the Leica lens, you could get the sensor-with-lens product from Sony. With the new test reports coming out for the RX-1, you could end up with a better lens as well.

Maybe. But you won't be able to use that nice lens on anything else, when your RX1 is broken/superceeded/no fun anymore,

In the UK the RX1 is £600 more than he 35 cron.

 

[algrove]

Do Adobe release candidates for M in LR 4.4 and new ACR 7.4 mean new M is highly eminent? They must have prototypes in order to develop the profiles.