Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 70

Thread: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

  1. #1
    Member nowherean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I'm a constant traveller but come back to NY and Florida once a year for about a month.
    Posts
    164
    Post Thanks / Like

    How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I've been shooting with the M9 for 2+ years, and my photography is mostly travel-inspired. Been really looking forward to M240 (especially live view for landscape photography) But now that I'm on-line somehow I'm not digging the look of 240 files. Do you think the color issues will be resolved with WB firmware update, or could it be a sensor issue all together?


    My Photos: 500px
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  2. #2
    Senior Member Gary Clennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    This will (mostly) be resolved via firmware update.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    51
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Dealer offered me one about 3 weeks ago, almost immediately. Skipped it. I'll wait another 18 to 24 months for the next Leica, likely to offer 36 mp (M360) and a much better color from the sensor + array. Meanwhile enjoying superior image quality with an mm and m9p as color + backup.

    Having played a bit with the ergonomically awkward M, I remain firmly convinced that I made the right call. I dislike the samples and suspect a metamerism issue that won't be resolved. Don't take seriously claims that metamerism can be addressed by a white balance adjustment or that a profile or firmware fix is coming, they're from folks who don't understand metamerism. A wide swathe of technically inclined users have concluded this, it's at least a minority consensus at this point, even if all but a handful are reticent to talk about it.

    Regardless of these difficult IQ factors, on other more easily evaluated points, the m240 is too marginally improved to consider this a meaningful upgrade if you already own an m9. 1.3 iso bump, DR better only on the margins, these might be a factor in about 5% of my shots.

    The new electronics? I'd go to my Nikons for that ... which do it all with a feel 5 years more advanced than the M.

    BTW, my dealer already has a list for the next color leica.
    Last edited by photomeme; 27th April 2013 at 07:26.
    Likes 6 Member(s) liked this post

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I`m not interested in the improved versatility of the M. If the next generation of the M-E would include the M`s sensor, buffer/write time and lcd screen I will consider an upgrade in 2-3 years time. But my M9 is still going strong.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I couldn't promise anything, but think I'm going to skip it. The colour 'issues' don't bother me, I can sort that out in ACR for myself, but the general bloat of the camera over my M9 is a downside with too few upsides. To make the most of the M240's new features so many things need to be added, like EVF, lens adapters etc, that it ends up as big as a Canon but with fewer useful functions (like sophisticated metering, auto focus, high ISO, etc.).

    The M240 will be a giggle for photographers who have never used Live View, but it is all a bit of a yawn if you've had a small m43 camera in the past few years and seen how it can be implemented properly. Meanwhile the M9 is still smallish, still working, and is still productive and capable of outstanding photography. Indeed the M9 shouldn't be compared with the M240, it is a very different camera in ethos, and possibly the last in the line of simple no nonsense Leica's.

    Steve
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_barnett/
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  6. #6
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I am delaying my transition to the new M . Really I should have known better what to expect having gone thru the introduction of the M8,M9 and S2 . I had a new M briefly out of the 2nd batch in the USA and returned it after a day because the RF was off . I ve been thru the it will be faster to send it for service than to get a new one stuff with Leica before .

    I was able to do one decent test on the color with a passport color checker using both the M9 and D800E/R lenses as comparisons . The differences are obvious and straightforward. The new M out of the camera produces a warmer file with a greenish bias compared to the m9 which favors a bluish magenta bias . The new M has substantially greater color saturation and a much improved DR . The new M has a very warm AWB . These differences can off course be addressed with firmware,camera profiling and raw development presets . The issue at this stage is that you need to comfortable making these adjustments primarily by eye to fit you specific requirements .

    Next we have the typical recall (faulty camera lugs) on cameras produced before 4/5 that will require a scheduled trip to Solms (only) and a loss of the camera for a minimum 3 weeks (if you are in the USA) .

    This by no means should indicate that the new M will not be a great next generation M . The S2 files were impossible for many of us a full 6 months after the first bodies were out . But the final product was superb .

    Right now the camera just isn t ready.....when it is I will complete the upgrade . They might even have batteries by then?
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #7
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I am not skipping, just waiting. In the digital world, patience is a virtue. I never buy a camera that is on waiting list. I will buy the M when there will be at least 2-3 copies at the local dealer. In case one body is faulty I can exchange it immediately not send it back to Leica. When I bought the M9 it developed a fault with the shutter display in the VF overnight, but I exchanged it the next day with a new body. I expect the M to become available in stock by end of 2014. In the meanwhile I will enjoy the M9.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2
    Likes 5 Member(s) liked this post

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Skipping this one for now, even though I sold my M9P in anticipation of the M240. My MM will suffice for rangefinder work, and the S2 or Sony A900/A99 can cover color needs in the interim.

    The color issues may or may not be hardware related, and until that is resolved the M240 is off the shopping list. The skin tones in particular are disconcerting, and I had expected a bit better higher ISO performance from a M with a CMOS sensor. Not being able to mag scroll in LV puts me off a bit, but I could live with it if the color is fixed.

    However, A lot of pretty experienced folks have been working with the M files for some time now, and they still look off to me.

    So, patience is a virtue now more than ever. If I have to wait for the next M camera, I'll get a dinky Sony NEX 7 for under $1K and use the M lenses on it. Not the same thing as a M9, but will do in a pinch for the occasional color shot while working with the MM (after I got the MM, my M9P rarely came out of the bag anyway).

    -Marc
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I find this an interesting thread. It lets all the nay sayers comment on why they did not get it.

    Roger's comment has credibility to me as he knows color, has extensive experience with color, owns current color digital cameras AND tried the M.

    I will keep mine even though it will go to Solms for the damn lug nut issue. It's just that I must find the time between planned trips to send it in. Since I mostly use tripod, other than initial shooting with a Gordy's strap, my lugs seem tight, but it must be sent it for a check out.

    OK, I'm a besta tester without compensation, but so far I am having so much fun being able to use my R lenses I could care less. I have posted many early shots that I must say, where some skin tones were very red, but one shot that comes to mind was around Spring break time where I wonder if the back of the guys neck was just not sun burned. It's the shot of the couple checking email with a topless wooden statue next to them. Another shot a few days later of a painting in the foreground and that same statue way in the background was pleasing to my eyes.

    Bottom line don't get if you don't want it, get it if you can live with it, and do not use others images as your decision points.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Bottom line don't get if you don't want it, get it if you can live with it, and do not use others images as your decision points.
    Of course, no one should ever do that!

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by nowherean View Post
    IDo you think the color issues will be resolved with WB firmware update, or could it be a sensor issue all together?
    What "color issues"?
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,927
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    What "color issues"?
    Yes, what "color issues"?

    This thread is really funny. The curious presumption that because one has an M9, one MUST be interested to 'upgrade' to an M is weird, whether the M is a disappointment to you or not is secondary.

    I sure don't buy a $7000 camera body every other year just because a new model has come out. I'm still quite happy with my M9 (happier with it now than I was a month ago, due to the experience of using it as my sole camera for a three week trip), but the new M has some features and improvements (responsiveness, the option for Live View, battery life, etc) that will motivate me to eventually buy one. I have no issues with the image quality—from everything I've seen, it's excellent and a healthy step beyond the M9 in terms of reduction of moiré, acutance, sensitivity, etc.

    Maybe in another year or two, I'm in no rush.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    74
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I am holding off buying the M even though my dealer had my preorder a couple of weeks back. I have my own reasons. Of course it is not going to resemble M9 files, and there is a reason, which I am not interested in furthur discussing. Not interested in making a forum argument.

    But I am unable to understand "color issues". Basically if you shoot RAW, you are accepting the fact that files are unprocessed and you process them to your tastes. The camera is pretty new so not much profiles available, recommend creating your own profile, use it as a starting point and tweak the files to your tastes. I have handled the M and processed my "own" files, did not see anything that would be classified as an issue.

  14. #14
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Having gone thru each of the upgrade cycles ..M8,M9,S2 ...I have encountered few surprises with the M . Each product introduction had some issues but in general the new product was viewed as clearly worth the effort . The M9 is a tough act to follow .

    Each photographer should gauge the benefits of the new M ..for me its the better high ISO performance ..really I need ISO1600 that looks like the M9 s 640 . Others want LV and the EVF to extend the range and/or improve focus accuracy . The new specifications can make an M kit much more capable .

    The color issues are real . You can work around them for most work (skin tones look difficult ) . Leica did correct this issue with the S2 . New firmware can make them better . You can correct much of the issue in the raw conversion . The M files will never completely match the M9 ...this will bother some photographers but not others .

    There is no way I will skip the new M but I needed to find a better entry point .

  15. #15
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA (USA)
    Posts
    1,809
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Anyone have a link to a page demonstrating these color issues? The samples I've seen from Jono and others have looked great.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  16. #16
    Senior Member Gary Clennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    My decision to buy the M240 was the best I have made in a while. I upgraded from the M8 which makes all the features of the M240 even more valuable to me. I have shot hundreds of frames with it and have been very happy with the results. Yes, there are some bugs to work out just like there was with all other digital M models. I'm in it for the long haul though and will keep this one for a long time. People will always push the truth to justify their reasoning for not buying it or for actually buying one. I am happy with my decision and feel it is an amazing camera.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Gary Clennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Hello Amin. See attached link for many pages of over-analyzed discussion on the M240 color output. I am reasonably happy with my WB but I could be color blind as one poster pointed out.

    M Color - Leica User Forum
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  18. #18
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Gary, but those are just words--showing that a lot of people don't know what metamerism means. Is there actually any images that show the "color issues"?
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  19. #19
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Join the M240 Facebook group and you will see plenty of examples and discussion . Leica has acknowledged the AWB issue and reported that it will be corrected in future firm wear releases .

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    51
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Join the M240 Facebook group and you will see plenty of examples and discussion . Leica has acknowledged the AWB issue and reported that it will be corrected in future firm wear releases .

    Metamerism has nothing to do with AWB, or manual white balance for that matter, and could not be addressed in post processing, a firmware upgrade, or a color profile.

    It will be interesting to read Puts' take, which is imminent on Tao of Leica blog.

  21. #21
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by photomeme View Post
    Metamerism has nothing to do with AWB, or manual white balance for that matter, and could not be addressed in post processing, a firmware upgrade, or a color profile.

    It will be interesting to read Puts' take, which is imminent on Tao of Leica blog.
    Is there proof that any camera suffers from metamerism? So far all I have seen is random pictures of different scenes. That has nothing to do with metamerism. Actually, the M9 may have a metamerism problem. But who knows--no one has done any test for metamerism.

    Actually, since the illuminant is a factor in metamerim, then WB should separate a metametric pair.

    Unless you are a product photographer that does studio fabric work or you do reproductions for museums, metamerism is one of those esoteric properties that photographers don't need to worry about--not exactly what you would use a rangefinder for.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  22. #22
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Join the M240 Facebook group and you will see plenty of examples and discussion . Leica has acknowledged the AWB issue and reported that it will be corrected in future firm wear releases .
    So, it is simply a AWB profile. That is really not an "issue." You can set WB in the RAW processor.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Gary Clennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    So, it is simply a AWB profile. That is really not an "issue." You can set WB in the RAW processor.
    This is mostly true but many people on that thread feel that AWB should be near perfect straight out of camera. My experience is that the M240 files are actually very easy to tweak to one's liking. Yes, they are not perfect but they are pretty close already. JPG output seems to be more accurate than DNG at the moment.

  24. #24
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Clennan View Post
    This is mostly true but many people on that thread feel that AWB should be near perfect straight out of camera.
    I am always tweaking my WB when I use AWB. The funny thing about automatic solutions is they tend to be a bit of a compromise. I can't understand being really critical, but then letting the machine do the work and expecting it to do it perfectly.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    298
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I'm on the fence. At first it really didn't interest me. I've been happy with my M9 and recently purchased an M8.2 as back-up. But with the favorable reviews from so many it has sparked my interest more. Although the waiting period is so long who knows when I would ever see one.

    As I go back and forth, I feel I would take the Monochrom before I'd take the the M... I just really love black and white!

  26. #26
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I have downloaded every M raw file I could find online, and really don't understand all the fuss about the colors. It's actually more neutral than the M9 and tweaking a file takes less than a minute. Any differences in color with the M9 are very subtle and files are almost indistinguishable when adjusted correctly.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I find this an interesting thread. It lets all the nay sayers comment on why they did not get it.

    Roger's comment has credibility to me as he knows color, has extensive experience with color, owns current color digital cameras AND tried the M.

    I will keep mine even though it will go to Solms for the damn lug nut issue. It's just that I must find the time between planned trips to send it in. Since I mostly use tripod, other than initial shooting with a Gordy's strap, my lugs seem tight, but it must be sent it for a check out.

    OK, I'm a besta tester without compensation, but so far I am having so much fun being able to use my R lenses I could care less. I have posted many early shots that I must say, where some skin tones were very red, but one shot that comes to mind was around Spring break time where I wonder if the back of the guys neck was just not sun burned. It's the shot of the couple checking email with a topless wooden statue next to them. Another shot a few days later of a painting in the foreground and that same statue way in the background was pleasing to my eyes.

    Bottom line don't get if you don't want it, get it if you can live with it, and do not use others images as your decision points.
    Conversely, it allows all the early adopter yeasayers to voice an opinion on those not quite willing to shell out $7,000 on a camera that is being questioned by other reasonably decent photographers whom they respect ... and whom indicate there are, as of now, unresolved questions.

    Burned once by the abandoned DMR, burned twice by the M8 IR issue ... burned three times ... shame on me.

    It'd be great if Leica provided demo M cameras so I could try it first hand like I did with the S2 ... but I know of none available to do that.

    So the option is ... buy it and live with it even if some critics are right, because looking at a number of reviews, studying images posted, downloading RAW files and working with them, corresponding with owners who you respect ... isn't a valid way to at least investigate something new. In short, the only valid homework cost $7,000.

    I initially didn't buy a S2 because of unresolved issues, but once resolved I committed to it ... a judgment I was able to make by watching how those issues were resolved by respected photographers working with the camera, and Leica's answers to those issues. I didn't have to demo the camera again.

    I still have a M240 on order, and it'll be a race to see if my number comes up before the color is fixed on this camera or not (not just white balance or Auto WB ... but the relationship of one color to the other which could possibly be affected by the bayer filter). If not, I'll just push my name down the list, and wait it out.

    Hope it all ends well.

    -Marc
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  28. #28
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by photomeme View Post
    Metamerism has nothing to do with AWB, or manual white balance for that matter, and could not be addressed in post processing, a firmware upgrade, or a color profile.

    It will be interesting to read Puts' take, which is imminent on Tao of Leica blog.
    Where did this discussion of metamerism come from ? there are a ton of examples of AWB and color profiling issues that were discussed at length ,packaged up and sent to leica and acknowledged as requiring correction in future firmware releases .

  29. #29
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,927
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Clennan View Post
    ... JPG output seems to be more accurate than DNG at the moment.
    I am not sure what that means. DNG files have raw data in them which is not yet rendered. What white balance temperature a DNG file has is mostly irrelevant as it is subject to a raw processor's interpretation and calibration curve for the camera.

    JPEG files should be "finished" out of the camera, if all the settings are correct for the scene. DNG files are never "finished" directly out of the camera.

    G

  30. #30
    Senior Member Gary Clennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Yes, you are correct Godfrey - my wording was not the best. I was simply trying to say that OOC JPGs are actually very good and require little adjustment.

  31. #31
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ...
    I still have a M240 on order, and it'll be a race to see if my number comes up before the color is fixed on this camera or not (not just white balance or Auto WB ... but the relationship of one color to the other which could possibly be affected by the bayer filter). If not, I'll just push my name down the list, and wait it out.

    Hope it all ends well.

    -Marc
    I am doing the same. The M9 and MM are too good that I feel any need to rush.
    I first need to be sure that the M does give me better or at least as "good" files as the M9.
    Tom

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Doug from East TN
    Posts
    482
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Edward, you are a wise man on "patience in the digital worlld". Also,

    I discovered that with the new M, my wallet would suffer from flattenness of image, and the color is not green. Therefore, the M9 that is paid for, and honestly barely broke in would seem sad to relegate to backup duty so soon, or to sell at half what I paid. I put some money into a new piece of glass for my M9, that is the smart money. 35mm Lux. I expect it on Monday. :-)

    I will take nothing away from the new. It may be right for me someday if I can find one available. But today, I am ok with an M9. That's the other reason it pays to not get all nutso about new stuff, it saves driving yourself crazy when you can't find it. Wait until it finds you, that's my take...

    As to color adjustments, elementary my dear Watson...

    Doug

  33. #33
    Member teeraash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Posts
    240
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I'm happy with the MM and ME. Changing my mind back and forth many times now on getting the new M or not. In general, I am not impressed with color images of the new M posted here, LUF, and M 240 FB group as much as from the M9 and its derivatives.

  34. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Shanghai
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I am not interested in the addition features the M brings so am going to skip it. I could use higher ISO performance so would welcome a M240-E , a sort of stripped down version with better ergenomics and with a better sensor than the M9

    James
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  35. #35
    Member nowherean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I'm a constant traveller but come back to NY and Florida once a year for about a month.
    Posts
    164
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    In regards to the questions on color issues with the new M... There is a long thread on l camera forum where some M photographers discuss their experience with the new M.

    Stephen Patterson for examples shares his personal experience...

    "I've spent a month with the M(240)...a very frustrating month. During that time I've captured some images that I'm very happy with, but it hasn't been easy. When the files behave they are lovely, but often the issues go well beyond simple WB. Even when corrected to a color temp that is correct, with color sliders adjusted to try and reproduce natural looking skin tones, there is just something that isn't right.

    Today I sold my M(240) and I have no regrets. During the months leading up to the release of the M(240) I was very vocal in my criticism of the lack of full res DNG samples, and I openly questioned why anyone would want to buy a camera without knowing if the IQ was superior to it's predecessor. I even warned some individuals who asked my opinion that buying from the first batch was a guarantee to be assigned the honorary position of "beta tester". But of course all that good advice went out the window when my dealer showed me that silver box."

    You can read the rest: M Color - Seite 9 - Leica User Forum

    I'm just wondering if its the hardware of the software issue. I love the M shooting experience, but I want the hardware that can deliver results on par with the price tag.


    My Photos: 500px
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  36. #36
    Member teeraash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Posts
    240
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Stephen, from the above link, suggested me to wait until the EoF this year or early next year before plonking down money for the M as the camera has many new features in many important areas that Leica may not get them right in production processes. I'm glad I haven't bought the M at a ripoff price of 9k usd here in Thailand (even we have only 3% import tax) and have to send it back for a fix a month later.

  37. #37
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I'm torn. So much so that I've canceled my M240 order twice!

    I think it's hard to see how Leica could have made any less improvement between these two camera generations than they did, but a few of the features are desirable for me. I would like the exceptionally modest ISO improvements, but the max ISO for me is almost unchanged from the M9 due to banding. Very disappointing, especially given that every $1,000 camera is now superior. The larger buffer and quieter shutter are nice. In fact, if I could pay $2,000 and get those into my M9, I would be happy.

    So far, I'm not wild about the output from the M240 (possible color problems aside), but I think I'm biased in favor of the M9. The M9 files were easy for me to pick out of a line up again the CMOS sensors, and I loved the difference / distinction. The M240 files are unremarkable - and I think that could fairly be described as a compliment, but it isn't for me. It's probably a side effect of the increased Dynamic Range, which I would like to have.

    On the other hand, I regard the banding issue as simply preposterous. Bigger and heavier are also not on the menu for me. Size and weight are why I complement my big cameras with Leica. If those advantages dwindle, Leica is less attractive to me.

    Again, I don't know whether I'll own one or not. We'll see.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  38. #38
    Member teeraash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Posts
    240
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I would be happy to pay $2,000 to have my ME with equivalence high iso noise and dynamic range as those of cameras with Sony APS-C.

  39. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    645
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Arthur - just revisited your West Lake series. Even better than the first time.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  40. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I skipped the early M8 issues and bought an M8.2. Then bought another one.

    I skipped the early M9 and rented a 'mature' one to compare against my M8.2s. I decided to stay with the M8.2 given my needs and preferences (not huge print size, not high ISO, and not super wide lenses), preferring it for b/w, and enjoying the 2m frame lines, top LCD, sapphire screen, etc.

    Folks remember the M8 issues, but sometimes forget or dismiss the early M9 issues, including color rendering, red edge issues, SD card issues, buffer issues, cracked sensors, etc. Every digital M release has had problems.

    So, true to form, I'll wait for the (predictable) M teething issues to sort out (at least we hope these are all resolvable), and then test one against my M8.2 by making prints of my own images.

    I hope to be pleased with the print results, since I welcome weather sealing, longer battery life, faster processor, quieter shutter (without that awful motor re-cock sound), 2m frame lines (like the M8.2), etc). I don't care so much about live view, EVF, etc, although those aspects might come in handy for occasional use. I would intend to use it as a more traditional M RF camera, but with the improved characteristics I just listed. Size and weight is still fine with me; in fact my film Ms seem too skinny now in comparison to the M8.2.

    No rush. Any of these cameras are quite capable, especially as just one link in the print workflow; sometimes it's the small stuff that matters, and we each have our own ideas on what constitutes the right stuff. Different strokes.

    Jeff

  41. #41
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    182
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Not skipping. Just waiting. The M9P works wonders for me. Its only weakness from my perspective is macro. The M240 with an R 100 APO has me thinking that it may be better than that 3 letter word. Not really! I just do not adopt the untested technology. I really appreciate early adopters because they provide such a great service that I am just not willing to slug through. In about a year when you can find one in stock I will upgrade. An OMD-5 is working for macro right now. Thank you to those who test and provide feedback to leica. Great work on behalf of us all. Frank

  42. #42
    Member nowherean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I'm a constant traveller but come back to NY and Florida once a year for about a month.
    Posts
    164
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by MikalWGrass View Post
    Arthur - just revisited your West Lake series. Even better than the first time.
    Thank you, Mikal. I have more photos I wanted to put up, but having hard time finding the time lately...


    My Photos: 500px

  43. #43
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,800
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    I am not skipping, just waiting. In the digital world, patience is a virtue. I never buy a camera that is on waiting list. I will buy the M when there will be at least 2-3 copies at the local dealer. In case one body is faulty I can exchange it immediately not send it back to Leica. When I bought the M9 it developed a fault with the shutter display in the VF overnight, but I exchanged it the next day with a new body. I expect the M to become available in stock by end of 2014. In the meanwhile I will enjoy the M9.
    Ditto. Been there, done that.

    I miss my M9 and I fully intend getting back in to the Leica system as I really really enjoyed using both film (M6/M7/MP) and digital (all the M8's, M9) but dropped out to pay for the money pit that is medium format digital. However, what I've learned over a long time and lot's of cameras is that it pays to let someone else do all of the beta and post beta (better known as the first 1000+ production cameras) testing.

    Does anyone seriously doubt that Leica will not address any issues with the new M? You KNOW that it'll live up to the promises but it might take 6-12 months to finally get it dialed in. Of course by that time everyone will be bitching and moaning about all the things they want in the next M ...

    Keep testing guys. We'll jump back in when the water's ready.

    In the meantime, I'm STILL panting after an MM. I hate that financially I had to let mine go
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  44. #44
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,927
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    ...
    In the meantime, I'm STILL panting after an MM. I hate that financially I had to let mine go.
    I'd like one too as I so often prefer B&W that there are many many photos in my catalog that I've never looked at the color capture.

    Maybe some day.

    G

  45. #45
    Member erick.boileau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Germany / France
    Posts
    247
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    I am very happy to have sold my M9 and I love the M , I have never really liked the M9
    Leica M

  46. #46
    Member wuffstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    240
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Sold M9. Tested the demo M. No enthusiasm for it at all. Seems like a weedy half-assed Nikon/Canon/Leica attempt at a camera (my opinion, that's all - worthless to anyone except me).

    I purchased a Monochrom at the same outlet as I tested the M demo. Pure and sweet.
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  47. #47
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Quote Originally Posted by wuffstuff View Post
    I purchased a Monochrom at the same outlet as I tested the M demo. Pure and sweet.
    Pure and sweet.



    (Not many cameras of this caliber show up in ones life time, IMO)
    Likes 6 Member(s) liked this post

  48. #48
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    For me, my camera budget goes toward lens, going to keep the M9 for a while until i run out of lenses i want to try.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    353
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    Pre-ordered it as soon as it was available. Cancelled the pre-order two weeks back as I checked my M9 and did not find any issues with it. I will buy a used M240 in 2015 or a new M350 in 2016. My M9 was also bought used more than 2 years after release, at a good discount.

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Reykjavik, Iceland
    Posts
    2,310
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    9

    Re: How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

    The M9 is too good for me to consider selling at the moment. I can get a beautiful print up to about 100x75cm, and I have the S2 for higher resolution and SLR work. They are both so good, and so similar in their file characteristics that separating them does not seem worth it to me. There is a harmony between the two systems that I enjoy -- a consistent look and feel that makes it easier for my own work to be more internally consistent. So the idea of selling the M9, which I know well and works extremely well, did not seem to make much sense for me. The other issue I find is that Leica equipment tends to be rather fussy (many would surely know what I am talking about!). In the beginning they are often hard to get working consistently or require trips back to Solms to mate well with your existing gear. But once they settle in, I have found they keep working very well and consistently for as long as I have owned them. So for me, changing out a camera or lens is a big deal, not just for the cost, but for the time and effort in getting everything in my system working perfectly and reliably again.
    At the moment, I have had two years where my M9 and S2 and their lenses are all working brilliantly together, and the idea of disrupting that performance just to get a bit more resolution or higher ISO do not make sense for me. Perhaps that will change at the next generation....
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
    My lab is here: http://www.customphotolab.is and on facebook
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •