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Thread: New Mini M?

  1. #501
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Aren't those lenses for smaller sensor cameras?
    One is, one isn't.

    I wonder how big a f/2.8 zoom for this APSc camera actually would have been ... or a f/2.8-4? The Sony 18-55/3.5-5.6 is huge, and not all that great optically.
    The 18-55/2.8-4 Fujinon gives a size reference. And it's 'prime' quality.

    To compare directly to the Vario, at 46mm it's f/4.
    Last edited by monza; 16th June 2013 at 05:04.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    something to admire with this leica and leica in general is the old school simplicity with the shutter speed dial and aperture ring. what turned me on with the digilux 2. it seems all the asian cameras go way overboard with layered menus and multifunctionalism

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    One is, one isn't.



    The 18-55/2.8-4 Fujinon gives a size reference. And it's 'prime' quality.

    To compare directly to the Vario, at 46mm it's f/4.
    Wowzer! That X-E1 camera is something else, and so it the lens.

    I wonder how the higher ISOs, like 1,600 and 3,200, are?

    Does LR 4 support it?

    Time to meander over to the Fuji froum and read some reviews

    Thanks!

    -Marc

    Back again, never mind.
    Last edited by fotografz; 16th June 2013 at 09:42.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Wowzer! That X-E1 camera is something else, and so it the lens.

    I wonder how the higher ISOs, like 1,600 and 3,200, are?

    Does LR 4 support it?

    Time to meander over to the Fuji froum and read some reviews

    Thanks!

    -Marc

    Back agin, never mind.
    The Fuji 18-55 is indeed an outstanding lens. Cannot say if better than the Leica XV zoom but for sure faster and more reach. Plus pretty compact.

    And yeas, LR4 and 5 support it, although I prefer Aperture for this.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    XV overlayed on XE, showing the slightly larger size of the 18-55



    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    something to admire with this leica and leica in general is the old school simplicity with the shutter speed dial and aperture ring. what turned me on with the digilux 2. it seems all the asian cameras go way overboard with layered menus and multifunctionalism
    The Fujis are old school in this regard, with shutter dial on top plate, and aperture ring on the prime lenses (the XV aperture dial is on the top of the camera.)

    One of my good friends just bought an X100S, and sent me this email last night:

    But definitely RTFM - especially if you're new to "rangefinder" style controls, like me. A good example, I had no clue how to switch from Manual exposure to Aperture Priority - went through the electronic menus a half dozen times...nothing...that's an important setting...how could I miss it?

    Read the manual to find the A on the lens and shutter speed dial



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    Re: New Mini M?

    (I’m probably gonna get flamed for all this blasphemy so I’d like to apologize in advance to anyone I offend. This is just an opinion expressed on a wonderfully open forum of discussion and debate.)

    When you take the lofty price out of the equation, I, like many, feel the XV is a pretty good camera. After all, it appears to have a very sharp zoom lens coupled with a very good sensor that could offer some very good hi ISO performance (which could make up for the disappointing slowness of the lens) in an equally appropriate and well-constructed body. (The camera weights in at a 1.5 pounds so it's certainly a beefy one, which also supports the quality lens theory.)

    I also feel that Leica was probably right in erring on making the lens a little slower to maintain a more compact size while retaining superb optical quality. A smaller lens profile no doubt helps the camera, who’s body it is definitely modeled after, namely it's more traditionally svelte M big brother, from appearing too out of proportion or lop-sided.

    The main debate on this thread and others appears to be…just who is this for?

    Pro’s and advanced amateurs looking for a good second camera? Nah. They’ve already voiced their opinion. And while many have pointed out the image IQ while certainly Leica worthy (sharp and bokeh-able) while some may, indeed, buy one for themselves, I gather the rest will most likely pass. For they’ve already concluded that the lens, regardless of how sharp and contrast it is, will be still too slow in far too many situations they foresee, which, even with the sensor's potential to make up for the slowness with what appears to be very good high ISO performance may still result in too many blurred shots if a tripod isn’t readily available.

    Okay, then, what about the busy albeit ‘knowledgeable’ amateur who knows about shutter speed and aperture relationships who doesn't lurk on websites like these nor has the time or wherewithal to pore over multi-page reviews but is looking for a good, solid camera as Jono suggested? Some may take the plunge. But honestly I'm not so sure about them either. If they DO know about shutter speed and aperture they may conclude after some minimal thought that despite how cool the Leica name is, for $2850 there are other cameras out there (with equally fine names) that you can also minimally fiddle with and aim that will produce equally fine images (if not better) for less. Including the Sony RX1 which I will argue is, indeed, competition considering the price point here since it's an equally viable proposition for someone's money for and offers full frame capability and an almost universally applauded seriously faster, sharper, bona-fide (albeit fixed) Zeiss lens at one of the most popular focal lengths. (Of course, for some, Sony may be out because that is gaudy new money while Leica is classic old money. Flashy, but not refined. Sorta like Tesla vs Bentley.)

    For me, there is strong evidence that the camera just may be, as one poster suggested, a wealthy ornament to hang around someone’s neck.

    Who you might ask?

    A successful specialist physician? Possibly. But they tend to scrutinize equipment. They might get a better piece of camera with better specs. Or hold out for an M.

    A wall-street investment banker or successful props trader? Perhaps. When they get their bonus checks they do tend to go on little shopping sprees.

    The likes of Kim Kardashian (who could have used the camera in the delivery room last night)? Maybe. But unless the XV came in pink, probably not. (But she may reconsider when the Michael Kors edition comes out.)

    Ahhhhh...but how about her ex-husband, basketball star Kris Humphries or her little sister’s husband, Scott?

    DING-DING-DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!!!!!!!

    Yep. These are the guys I think who are MOSTLY the target for the X Vario: wealthy folks who probably already have a camera like a bulky Nikon DSLR they thought they wanted but have been feeling lately like it’s always hanging like an albatross around their necks who are open to something smaller, lighter and very prestigious. I imagine these guys out and about in NYC’s So-Ho (or wherever Leica boutiques are) popping in and out of the shops when suddenly they see the Leica flag hanging from a building and decide to check it out. Because, it’s something they’ve always been curious about but have never really gone into a B&H or Jessops or whatever. They’ll enter the smallish showroom, take in the Leica Kool Aid while poring over the various models and concluding that the D-Lux 6 is too small (although maybe right for a spouse or GF) and the X2, too limiting (with its fixed lens) and that the ME, M240 and Monochrom are..well..”Hooooo”…a little beyond their photographic needs at the present (although perhaps something to aspire to) they spot the new X Vario. A Leica. A real Leica. And, better yet, a Leica that’s juuuuuuuuuuuust right. Something they may or may not use on every occaision but something that affirms their success in life (to others). Something people will instantly recognize and approve that gives them cred, like their Phillipe Patek watches or Armani Collezioni clothing. Something that will impress their friends and associates on their next encounter when conversation openers arise like “Hey [Kris or Scott]…new camera? “…or (with, perhaps, their more knowledgeable photographic friends), “Wow, [Kris or Scott]! Is that a Leica? Cool!”). The bottom line is having a respectable camera with great OOC jpgs that don't always need further fussing other than deciding what size prints to make them.

    My guess is Leica feels there are enough of these types out there to make this camera a reasonable success. After all they’ve got the brand cache that beats all others for a nice addition to any ‘crib’.

    For the most part, these guys will set it on “A” and “A” and let the camera do the rest to capture splendidly well-exposed, sharp images on a sunny veranda, the golf course or a lazy afternoon party with friends under a bimini on the yacht they chartered (not realizing that the physics behind smaller apertures and image formation may have more to do with the sharp results than the painstakingly made and assembled glass). When they take the camera indoors they’ll still be happy with when the flash is used (and they’ll dismiss the blurry orange shots when it isn’t).

    Will they use Adobe’s Lightroom that comes with it? I don’t think so. While some of these guys MAY dabble in RAW I see them mostly as Apple iPhoto types or maybe even Adobe Photoshop elements types. Just not Lightroom types (at least not initially, even though it comes with it (again I think Leica’s decision to provide this is more to add to the Leica cache than actually be used by the core target. But should photography really grab their soul like so many here and elsewhere at least they'll have one of the best pieces of software ever developed to get the most out of it as painlessly as possible). Although I really suspect these are the types who take SD cards out the camera and bring it into the neighborhood drug store or camera shop for processing.

    Yep the X Vario is definitely a piece of bling, albeit highly functional and high quality photographic bling. As for my evidence? I would like to present exhibit A below:

    Yes. The X Vario’s leather case. Which, unlike, practically EVERY other case on the planet, has a special, stitched cutout for the Leica name to be seen.

    If the X Vario isn't meant for the conspicuous consumption-conscious then who?
    Last edited by peterb; 16th June 2013 at 10:54.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.
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  7. #507
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Peter, I had no idea that the camera came with such a beautiful leather case. Could be worth a rethink on this camera, for me.
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Actually, I rate Leica as best in the world at making great glass that is also fast and compact.So I don't see why their "theoretical" f:2.8-f:4.0 zoom need be any larger than Fuji's for the same size sensor (APS-C). There are other factors we don't know about (how Leica rate the Fuji's IQ, the sensor-to-exit-pupil distance of both cams, etc. ). But, as a general rule, I think, if anyone could do it, it is Leica, and the Fuji is an indication that it was probably doable. It is also clear that even at a higher price it would not have eaten into sales of other Leica cameras, because they are not comparable, and much more expensive.
    So it probably boils down to a performance Vs prrice analysis, which kept the speed low and the price from going up higher.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    One is, one isn't.



    The 18-55/2.8-4 Fujinon gives a size reference. And it's 'prime' quality.

    To compare directly to the Vario, at 46mm it's f/4.
    Does prime quality mean it shows the same amount of distortion at 18mm like the 18mm Fuji prime does?

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    XV overlayed on XE, showing the slightly larger size of the 18-55


    The Fuji lens is a few mm longer at 18mm than the XV lens at the XV's maximum extension. It's a few mm greater diameter too. At longer focal lengths, it's substantially longer than the XV lens.

    Handling it at the dealer last Thursday, it seemed somewhat heavy too. They didn't have an XV to compare it to, but I suspect it plus an XE-1 body are a third heavier than the XV, which is rapidly moving to another class of camera.

    No matter how I try, I still do not like the feel of the Fuji X cameras anyway. The Oly Pen E-P5 felt a lot nicer. I'd buy that, the Voigtländer 17/0.95, 25/0.95, and use my existing 40mm and up M-bayonet lenses instead.

  11. #511
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Just a few grams difference, 628 vs 650, about 3%. About as imperceptible as the size difference.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Just a few grams difference, 628 vs 650, about 3%. About as imperceptible as the size difference.
    the fuji lens grew about 1.5-2 inches IIRC when you zoomed to the long end.

    no matter really, tho, as I don't want either the XV or the XE-1. Don't like zooms.

    G

  13. #513
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    Re: New Mini M?

    The EVF will also add to the size and slightly to the weight. But the zoomed out length doesn't really matter, not like a larger bag is needed.

    The nice thing about the X-E is lens variety.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    The EVF will also add to the size and slightly to the weight. But the zoomed out length doesn't really matter, not like a larger bag is needed.

    The nice thing about the X-E is lens variety.
    Same can be said of many brands. Don't like the Fujis. Why are you trying to sell them in a Leica X Vario thread?

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    We know very well you are the anti-sales for Fuji, Godfrey.

    If it isn't already obvious by now, the X-E1 is the most similar mirrorless competitor to the XV in most areas...size, weight, user interface (dials), megapixel, sensor size, etc.
    The X Vario is a fixed lens camera, not an interchangeable lens camera. That's the huge gulf between them. And the XV does not have a built in EVF, like the XE-1. Comparing to an interchangeable lens camera, the Olympus E-P5 is more similar in features. If you want an interchangeable lens camera, the NEX and Olympus/Panasonic Micro-FourThirds seem far better far as I'm concerned. A NEX 6 or 7 for the built in EVF, an E-P5 for the superb EVF and excellent IBIS system.

    If you want a fixed lens camera, the only competition to the XV is a Ricoh GXR fitted with A16 camera unit on size/weight/features/etc. And it's a different kind of beast too, really.

    APS-C fixed-mount, zoom lens compacts are pretty scarce.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    The huge gulf is the price. Whether it's interchangeable or not, the X-E1 available as a kit with the 18-55. Many people enjoy the X-E1 without changing the lens. The other cameras don't have the similar style/design/UI and some of those have smaller sensors. In any case, similar in 'most areas' applies.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    You guys could do this by PM.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    The comparison posts were worth the effort for a thread were many people can read them, but a PM with G isn't worth the time. If he doesn't like certain gear (specifically Fuji) or any particular comment in a post, he takes it personally and just responds with veiled insults or general boorishness.
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    Re: New Mini M?

    I have had to come in here 3 times to cool the fire. I'm done its Father's Day and I have had to come in here and waste my ****ing time again . Thread locked and I had to wipe out some posts. Frankly this **** needs to end.
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Im going to open this up again but it comes with a warning. If your going to post a opinion than respect the person that will reply to that opinion. If your not willing to hear a opposing opinion than I suggest you don't post one to start. Part 2 its not about YOU get that through your head, it is about customers that maybe willing to buy this whoever the heck they are. All I read here is Im not going to buy it its beneath me or whatever , great but Leica is not selling to you but customers willing to buy it. I'm not interested in purchasing one but Its not about me and its about others that fill a need. Part 3 Quit being a candy *** and threatening to take your marbles and go home. Thats just flat out being a baby. No one cares and its really sickening to read.

    Now I hate to even post this because this is not how i go about my life but you folks forced my hand to write this crap. If it does not interest me I just ignore threads and go somewhere else. But if I have to moderate more whining than I will be the asshole, trust me I'm really good at it when I need to be.

    Fair enough. Please debate but I better see some real respect here to others or you will not post here anymore. No one is above the rules and fair warning right now I have a itchy ban button.
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Well, if Leica owns the brand, then anything they call an M is an M.
    OTOH, those who think the "true" M is something else, then you are entitled to you opinions.
    -bob

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Rewind 30 years:

    Customer in camera shop with money to burn:
    - What are all those numbers on the lens?

    Man working in camera shop:
    - Don't worry about them. Do you see the number "8" there? Just make sure that it's aligned with the red dot there and you'll be fine.

    - But the other numbers?

    - Those are for professional photographers. Makes your photos get blurry if you don't watch out. You don't want blurry photos, do you?

    - No, no, I'll leave that to the pros.

    --

    At that time ISO 400 was the fastest film most normal p&s photographers used. Nowadays, ISO 3200 is probably cleaner than 400 was back then. So what is all this talk about slow lenses again? No viewfinder? Big deal! Have you seen on the back of this camera? There's a big window there, with enough space for grandma and all the kids. Much better than looking through that little hole on the old cameras, which was next to impossible with glasses anyway.

    It's a bit expensive of course, but it's a Leica isn't it? I've heard that professional photographers use Leica, so it must be good then?
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 17th June 2013 at 18:36.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Jorgen, I am not questioning the fact that there are some customers that will act out your scenario. I am questioning how many there are, and whether it is really wise for Leica to spend R&D resources, of which they have desperately few compared to their huge competitors, on a camera which is "for them only", instead of "for them as well as for more involved photographers".
    I also cannot imagine that Leica, IMHO the world's best at designing lenses that are at the same time great glass, and compact and fast, could not make a f:2.8-f-4.0 no larger than the Fuji, also for APS-C. But we will never know, will we?

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    Re: New Mini M?

    It's not important if it's bigger or smaller, more or less advanced, better or worse than the Fuji. Those in the target group will probably be more than happy to get a camera where one does not need to worry about changing lenses. Actually, this is more of a competitor for the Lunar, at less than half price, with the red dot, made by Leica, inside and out. And again; no worry about lenses. The one that's available is glued to the camera.

    If I had a solid economy, knew little about photography and wanted a show-off camera that could also be used to take good photos with, this would be the one.

    Unfortunately, I do not have a solid economy, have too many cameras costing in sum far more than this one, but would probably take at least as good photos with the Leica as I do with all the ones that I have

  25. #525
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    Re: New Mini M?

    I actually do not understand all this discussion about how fast , or in this case slow the lens is. This is absolutely not the point about the XV. Wanting a shallow DOF then just forget the XV.

    The XV either appeals to one or not. For me it does, because it mimics the old school of camera building perfectly, while adding the right state of the art credentials as outstanding sensor and compact high quality zoom, reasonable fast AF (not a sports or wildlife camera) plus some other nice features. All that together coming from Leica, I do not even question the price point.

    Not able or not willing to spend that money, just look elsewhere.
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    Re: New Mini M?

    It is not about the money, ptomsu, nor only about shallow DOF, though being able to achieve this would be a plus. In his review, Sean Reid points out to a message received form Michaël Reichmann, to the effect that, in broad daylight but with severely overcast weather, MR was already having to use ISO 1600. That is not great IMHO.
    As I stated previously, with a faster zoom, I might have bought one, even though the red dot holds no spell over me. I am just disappointed that this camera is for the beholden and not for a wider audience.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    using 1600 ISO is not necessarily an issue in today's digital world. i shoot at 3200 for print use and it's okay--depends on how good the sensor is at that speed. seems like most photos end up on the web anyway. the concern i have is the ability to isolate at the long end. want to see more samples. sounds like the camera is built nicely.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    ISO1600 doable? Yes. Desirable? I don't think so, not unless you have to. And what is the customer getting in exchange for this "concession"?

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    Re: New Mini M?

    @philber,

    You obviously did not read my post carefully. I said to some the "slow" lens might be a show stopper, to others it is not. And to me for example it is not. So if it is to you, then I would not waste anymore time in repeating your desire for a faster XV in whatever thread here. Sorry to be direct, but this is starting to get boring!

    WRT Sean Reid and M. Reichmann - I could not care less about these guys, as their reviews reflect by no means anyhow practical photography. I do not need S.R. to know that a certain Leica lens (or other lens) is good and sharp, I can judge that usually from my own test shots. But if you like to read Reid & Reichmann, you can do of course - up to you again. Anyway also referring to such reviews just gets boring!

    Best regards

    Peter

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    Re: New Mini M?

    While we are still arguing about this camera, it is already selling to clients worldwide. As Peter said, you may like it or not, we all have different needs, and while it is not for me personally, it definitely is the camera for many people as Leica seems to be quite happy with the sales so far.
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by philber View Post
    ISO1600 doable? Yes. Desirable? I don't think so, not unless you have to. And what is the customer getting in exchange for this "concession"?
    Less distortion, better color, more sharpness over the frame, better weight balance, more solid build, simpler more intuitive/analog user interface and most important less weight in your wallet to carry

    By the way I wonder why lenses even offer f8 or f16 if it is not even possible to use f6.3 in daylight (or f5.0 at 50mm fov)?

    Compare the DOF and sensor noise behaviour to a m4/3 and it is equivalent to a 14-35/2.5-4.5 lens, just sharper wide open than the 12-35/2.8 Pana lens.

  33. #533
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    Re: New Mini M?

    I don't really get why it's referred to as Mini M, when the M is german for 'rangefinder' (Messsucher).
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelToye View Post
    I don't really get why it's referred to as Mini M, when the M is german for 'rangefinder' (Messsucher).
    Can only give my personal feeling/answer: Take it in your hand and operate it, it "feels" lot of the M and with the EVF attached it actually works even better than the M IMHO - but this again is personal.

    Plus another advantage - it is much closer in size to an M6, which is a much more preferable size than the new M.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I actually do not understand all this discussion about how fast , or in this case slow the lens is. This is absolutely not the point about the XV. Wanting a shallow DOF then just forget the XV.

    The XV either appeals to one or not. For me it does, because it mimics the old school of camera building perfectly, while adding the right state of the art credentials as outstanding sensor and compact high quality zoom, reasonable fast AF (not a sports or wildlife camera) plus some other nice features. All that together coming from Leica, I do not even question the price point.

    Not able or not willing to spend that money, just look elsewhere.
    And I thought lens speed was not about shallow dof. The latter is simply a consequence of the former, I was made to believe. But speedy lenses allow to shoot at decent shutter speeds without having to push iso to levels were IQ starts to be compromised.

  36. #536
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelToye View Post
    I don't really get why it's referred to as Mini M, when the M is german for 'rangefinder' (Messsucher).
    I agree with you. In the end I find x-vario a better name.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    To pick up a quote from that review:

    "The shutter speeds are capped at 1/2000th second, which could be due to the limitation of a leaf shutter ... "

    Is this true? A Leaf Shutter? Really?

    If so, what is the max flash sync speed without resorting to HSS on a SF58?

    Thanks for any clarification,

    - Marc

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    To pick up a quote from that review:

    "The shutter speeds are capped at 1/2000th second, which could be due to the limitation of a leaf shutter ... "

    Is this true? A Leaf Shutter? Really?

    If so, what is the max flash sync speed without resorting to HSS on a SF58?

    Thanks for any clarification,

    - Marc
    Someone who would find an use for should check that camera out and inform everyone (which rules out most Leica reviewers?)

    This promo video could have been one source but I did not find any information related to that at all. Although there is a fleeting glimpse of a flash being used (on a mini M! ).

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Im going to open this up again but it comes with a warning. If your going to post a opinion than respect the person that will reply to that opinion. If your not willing to hear a opposing opinion than I suggest you don't post one to start. Part 2 its not about YOU get that through your head, it is about customers that maybe willing to buy this whoever the heck they are. All I read here is Im not going to buy it its beneath me or whatever , great but Leica is not selling to you but customers willing to buy it. I'm not interested in purchasing one but Its not about me and its about others that fill a need. Part 3 Quit being a candy *** and threatening to take your marbles and go home. Thats just flat out being a baby. No one cares and its really sickening to read.

    Now I hate to even post this because this is not how i go about my life but you folks forced my hand to write this crap. If it does not interest me I just ignore threads and go somewhere else. But if I have to moderate more whining than I will be the asshole, trust me I'm really good at it when I need to be.

    Fair enough. Please debate but I better see some real respect here to others or you will not post here anymore. No one is above the rules and fair warning right now I have a itchy ban button.
    Thank you, Guy...your work as a moderator is greatly appreciated. BTDT myself and it is difficult.

    I personally am happy to see someone stand up and call it out. I am still deciding whether to even participate in GetDPI and with all the negativity, I can't say I like this at all, yet.
    Best regards,
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Someone who would find an use for should check that camera out and inform everyone (which rules out most Leica reviewers?)

    This promo video could have been one source but I did not find any information related to that at all. Although there is a fleeting glimpse of a flash being used (on a mini M! ).

    Yvonne Venegas: The Personal View of Things on Vimeo
    My interest in this camera would jump a bit if it syncs at higher shutter speeds using radio triggered portable strobes outdoors, which I do a lot.

    - Marc

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    My interest in this camera would jump a bit if it syncs at higher shutter speeds using radio triggered portable strobes outdoors, which I do a lot.

    - Marc
    This is one observation I made from some of the posts: "this camera is not for you" as an underlying theme.

    Quite contradictory and unexpected to what this camera may be capable of.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    Thank you, Guy...your work as a moderator is greatly appreciated. BTDT myself and it is difficult.

    I personally am happy to see someone stand up and call it out. I am still deciding whether to even participate in GetDPI and with all the negativity, I can't say I like this at all, yet.
    Thank you but don't let one thread deter you. It's a great place or I would not be here either.
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  43. #543
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It's not important if it's bigger or smaller, more or less advanced, better or worse than the Fuji. Those in the target group will probably be more than happy to get a camera where one does not need to worry about changing lenses. Actually, this is more of a competitor for the Lunar, at less than half price, with the red dot, made by Leica, inside and out. And again; no worry about lenses. The one that's available is glued to the camera.
    In my younger days, I worked in shipping and receiving at a local camera store. I was about 19 or so. However, on occasion I would get trapped behind the retail sales counter.

    More recently when I agreed to assist a friend of mine who owned a much larger store (he needed someone to revamp and manage his internet department) the same thing would happen: sometimes I'd get pulled behind the retail counter.

    This was usually around holiday season, where the typical customer was making their 'once in five years or more' trip to a camera store. Let's just say these customers are not up on the latest industry trends, and generally are not particularly savvy about photography in general, but many of them have no shortage of spending money and are brand conscious. The odds that any of these shoppers visit camera forums online is virtually nil.

    If such a customer were to narrow a decision down to one interchangeable lens model or another vs. the XV, I can pretty much guarantee the perception of such a customer is that interchangeable lenses make a camera more 'professional' and that would be perceived as a positive. Whether they actually purchase multiple lenses and change them is another matter altogether! It would actually be somewhat of a bragging point: "Look at my new camera, I can even change the lens!"

    I feel for those who work in a Leica dealer/boutique who have to serve these newbie customers. It's not an easy job...it would be far easier in a Leica store, where there are no other brands to showcase.
    Last edited by monza; 18th June 2013 at 08:27.

  44. #544
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    Re: New Mini M?

    @monza

    well the concept of the original "Leica Store" is, that there are NO other brands to showcase. Only LEICA!

  45. #545
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Well of course! A perfect venue to showcase the XV!
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    ...
    I feel for those who work in a Leica dealer/boutique who have to serve these newbie customers. It's not an easy job...it would be far easier in a Leica store, where there are no other brands to showcase.
    But then he could give the VX and another camera into the hands of the customer, let him play and let him take some images. He could ask him which feels better in the hand, which was easier to control, and them let him look at the images and ask him which images he would like better...I doubt this would be an disadvantage to sell a Leica.
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    @monza

    well the concept of the original "Leica Store" is, that there are NO other brands to showcase. Only LEICA!
    "Original" is the word. Lost in practice. I have seen (online though, may not be the reality if I have to believe some of the repeated post here) some boutique stores offering and actively promoting 3rd party leather wear.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    This is one observation I made from some of the posts: "this camera is not for you" as an underlying theme.

    Quite contradictory and unexpected to what this camera may be capable of.
    Well, the little bugger IS a leaf shutter, and some folks have PMed me that they use an X camera with a Nikon speed-light at sync speeds to 1/2000.

    So, it'd be interesting how high it'll sync with a Profoto AIR trigger? Given the size of the lens, maybe all the way to 1/2000 (???) Even at 1/1000 it'd be very cool.

    Aperture speed is much less of an issue when working with studio strobes ... I'm usually at f/5.6 anyway ... so, with the right strobe kit, you could control the background light balance and even over-power the sun. Not many compacts or 35mm DSLRs with zoom lenses can do that ... if any.

    - Marc
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    But then he could give the VX and another camera into the hands of the customer, let him play and let him take some images. He could ask him which feels better in the hand, which was easier to control, and them let him look at the images and ask him which images he would like better...I doubt this would be an disadvantage to sell a Leica.
    There was tongue-in-cheek in my post, perhaps too subtle.

    Any shopper walking into a Leica store probably knows where they are entering, just like someone who walks into a Rolex dealer

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well, the little bugger IS a leaf shutter, and some folks have PMed me that they use an X camera with a Nikon speed-light at sync speeds to 1/2000.

    So, it'd be interesting how high it'll sync with a Profoto AIR trigger? Given the size of the lens, maybe all the way to 1/2000 (???) Even at 1/1000 it'd be very cool.

    Aperture speed is much less of an issue when working with studio strobes ... I'm usually at f/5.6 anyway ... so, with the right strobe kit, you could control the background light balance and even over-power the sun. Not many compacts or 35mm DSLRs with zoom lenses can do that ... if any.

    - Marc
    A new thread on the X, M and Sync perhaps? Here it is lost between boutique and other stuff?

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