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Thread: New Mini M?

  1. #551
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    There was tongue-in-cheek in my post, perhaps too subtle.

    Any shopper walking into a Leica store probably knows where they are entering, just like someone who walks into a Rolex dealer
    Wouldnt it be bad if we walked into a store and didnt know where we are entering? Anyways, personally I have never been to a "Leica only" store so far. Maybe I am missing something.

  2. #552
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well, the little bugger IS a leaf shutter, and some folks have PMed me that they use an X camera with a Nikon speed-light at sync speeds to 1/2000.

    So, it'd be interesting how high it'll sync with a Profoto AIR trigger? Given the size of the lens, maybe all the way to 1/2000 (???) Even at 1/1000 it'd be very cool.

    Aperture speed is much less of an issue when working with studio strobes ... I'm usually at f/5.6 anyway ... so, with the right strobe kit, you could control the background light balance and even over-power the sun. Not many compacts or 35mm DSLRs with zoom lenses can do that ... if any.

    - Marc
    Marc, would you really want to use such a portable camera with studio lights?
    However I find the leaf shutter usefull for fill flash with the little integrated flash (at short distances) or maybe with the sf24d.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Wouldnt it be bad if we didnt know where we are entering?
    It appears this is happening to forum entrants on a rather frequent basis
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    However I find the leaf shutter usefull for fill flash with the little integrated flash (at short distances) or maybe with the sf24d.
    Why? Please explain. Feel free to illustrate it with images.

    TIA

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why? Please explain. Feel free to illustrate it with images.

    TIA
    Why? Because sometimes I like to capture moments in light which is less than imperfect. Bright light which leads to high contrast. A face in front a bright wall, people with sun coming from behind. So I need both a short exp time and fill flash.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Marc, would you really want to use such a portable camera with studio lights?
    Guess what?

    These are the flash modes available in/with your mini M:

    Auto, On, Off, Red-Eye, Front Curtain, Rear Curtain, Slow sync, Studio

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Guess what?

    These are the flash modes available in/with your mini M:

    Auto, On, Off, Red-Eye, Front Curtain, Rear Curtain, Slow sync, Studio
    just because it is an option I dont have to want to use it. If I was shooting with studio lights (which I dont do anyways) and if I had a Leica S with leaf shutter lenses (like Marc has) I would rather use the S.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Just because of this option and as one reviewer (http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk...mini-m-mystery) said, "this is as close as some may come to owning an M", some might use it.

    The promo video I linked above appears to be using it as well. She could have borrowed her dad's Canon to do the same thing with a larger sensor then there won't be a Leica promo based on the mini M.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Why? Because sometimes I like to capture moments in light which is less than imperfect. Bright light which leads to high contrast. A face in front a bright wall, people with sun coming from behind. So I need both a short exp time and fill flash.
    Would love to see some shots.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Would love to see some shots.
    just go on google and type in "fill flash" and you will understand

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    just go on google and type in "fill flash" and you will understand
    No i do not understand.

    The only camera I ever had that allowed for high speed flash sync (without special flash modes) was a Nikon D70. Most are 1/160s to 1/250s.

    You claim that you use the pop up at high shutter speeds- the speeds we are discussing are as high as 1/2000s. I am not even certain that can be done with the pop up in the mini M.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Vivek, you might find this to be of interest. Sync up to 1/4000
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Thanks, man!

    Now, that I understand and do appreciate.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    No i do not understand.

    The only camera I ever had that allowed for high speed flash sync (without special flash modes) was a Nikon D70. Most are 1/160s to 1/250s.

    You claim that you use the pop up at high shutter speeds- the speeds we are discussing are as high as 1/2000s. I am not even certain that can be done with the pop up in the mini M.
    Here is an example with the Coolpix A at 1/500.
    Without flash the boy in the shaddow would be to dark.
    With 1/125 the dog would be not sharp.
    Advantage of leaf shutter cameras.


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    Re: New Mini M?

    I have hundreds of shots taken with an Olympus pen F (not a leaf shutter but a rotary shutter) perfectly synced and exposed at 1/500s.

    I do not see any pop up doing that, be it a coolpix or a mini M.

    BTW, Tom, that coolpix shutter isn't what you think it is.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I have hundreds of shots taken with an Olympus pen F (not a leaf shutter but a rotary shutter) perfectly synced and exposed at 1/500s.

    I do not see any pop up doing that, be it a coolpix or a mini M.

    BTW, Tom, that coolpix shutter isn't what you think it is.
    Thank you Vivek to explain to me what the camera I use (and which you do not use) can do and what it can not.
    I just wonder why you asked about fill flash if you have done hundreds of images. Now I am really frustrated the x-vario doesnt have a rotary shutter, damn.
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Tom, I think it is a clear case of not understanding what is posted. Nothing more.

    Without going in to details of the mini discussion about leaf shutters and high speed syncs, let me just say that there is no intention on my part to confuse you or slight you. Some key points were missed and let us just leave that. I have to blame my lack of German (despite having lived and worked in your country for several years), otherwise I would have sent you a PM explaining it in Deutsch.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Marc, would you really want to use such a portable camera with studio lights?
    However I find the leaf shutter usefull for fill flash with the little integrated flash (at short distances) or maybe with the sf24d.
    Why not?

    Of course, most strobe stuff I do is with the S2 and CS or Hasselblad 100/2.2 lenses.

    However, I have all sorts of portable lighting rigs, some quite small and fun to use. The number one attribute being ... getting the aux light OFF the camera and more directional, using modifiers that are far better than any speed-light version. It doesn't matter what camera it is, it will benefit from that rather than just flat head on lighting ... fill or not.

    This camera benefits even more because it can be used up to at least 1/1000, and more likely than not, to 1/2000 without vignetting ... if you use the right transmitter ... in my case the Profoto AIR system ... or hard wire it using a proper hot-shoe sync adapter.

    - Marc

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Vivek, you might find this to be of interest. Sync up to 1/4000
    The problem with this (if you read the whole thread) is the need to use very specific speed-lights , transmitters, and accessories. The speed-light required is pretty huge on these small cameras if used for fill, and won't hyper sync when used that way ... or if used off-camera with hyper-sync, they are still speed-lights which are incredibly limiting compared to off-camera strobes ... even smaller ones like the EL Quadra.

    The sample the guy uses is quite nice, and the photographer knows lighting. However, it is a deceptive example ... a very contained situation with aux light used in a very small area on the subject, and the lighting was probably very close to the subject just out of frame camera right. Good for that specific creative situation, but perhaps not many more demanding ones. Speed-lights simply suffer from a crippling level of output when any distance is added to the equation. Even a lowly Quadra is 4 to 5 times the output of the most powerful speed-light.

    I'd hazard a guess, that will not be a limitation of the VX since it is a Leaf Shutter lens just the same as those used in MF lenses like Hasselblad H lenses, Phase One LS, Leica CS, which sync to 1/800, 1/1000, or more. In the case of the VX more likely to 1/2000 using ANY speed-light on camera for fill, or any strobe system, with no gerry-rigging, or hunt for rare parts.

    Try lighting this at such a distance with a speed-light ... trust me, it's not gonna happen:

    Bridal Party - Leica S2 using Hasselblad HC-50-II via H to S adapter. Leaf Shutter mode @ 1/750 sync speed ... lit by Profoto Acute B600L AIR and Elinchrom Rotalux 39" deep Octa with... GetDPI Image Gallery

    Get closer, and yeah, a speed-light can work ... like this using a SF58 on an S2 using a HC 100/2.2 @ 1/500 sync rather than the S2s focal plane shutter sync of 1/125 (which would have been 2 stops brighter and blown out the background that was lit by direct sun). It just depends on how bright the background you are trying to expose correctly actually is.

    Wedding-085 - Leica S2 with Hasselblad HC-100/2.2 using high-speed sync leaf-shutter @ 1/500th. GetDPI Image Gallery

    In essence, it appears that the VX can be used with aux lighting the same way as the big Leaf Shutter kits. What fun

    -Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 19th June 2013 at 15:58.
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Why not?

    Of course, most strobe stuff I do is with the S2 and CS or Hasselblad 100/2.2 lenses.

    However, I have all sorts of portable lighting rigs, some quite small and fun to use. The number one attribute being ... getting the aux light OFF the camera and more directional, using modifiers that are far better than any speed-light version. It doesn't matter what camera it is, it will benefit from that rather than just flat head on lighting ... fill or not.

    This camera benefits even more because it can be used up to at least 1/1000, and more likely than not, to 1/2000 without vignetting ... if you use the right transmitter ... in my case the Profoto AIR system ... or hard wire it using a proper hot-shoe sync adapter.

    - Marc
    I just thought that when you carry all the light/flash stuff than you can also bring a bigger camera. The other thing is that as soon as you put flash or transmitter on the hotshoe you cant use the EVF any more.

    On the other side - why not.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I just thought that when you carry all the light/flash stuff than you can also bring a bigger camera. The other thing is that as soon as you put flash or transmitter on the hotshoe you cant use the EVF any more.

    On the other side - why not.
    Well, not everyone has a Leica S and CS lenses, a Hasselblad H5D, or Phase One DF with LS lenses to go forth with dead serious intent

    Plus, the other item that you missed when you carry the big gun leaf Shutter camera system and battery powered strobe kit to match it ... is another person to help carry it

    For the more modest practitioner, a demure Quadra Lithium generator with it's teeny-tiny head and thin cords will literally fit in a medium shoulder bag with plenty of room for a VX. Throw it over your shoulder, grab a light stand and folded EL 27" Rotalux deep Octa and off you go ... a one man, Pro level band to shoot the Grandkids, Family Reunion groups, beach sunset portraits, and all the other stuff people use these cameras for.

    What is also interesting about using one of these type cameras with the LCD rather than an EVF, is that camera shake is less of a concern ... using a higher shutter speed outdoors coupled with a short flash duration helps mitigate that issue a lot.

    It is just a fun feature of a camera with a zoom leaf-shutter lens, that may get overlooked by the usual small camera user. A more positive attribute of the X Vario that's there if you want to explore it.

    - Marc
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It is just a fun feature of a camera with a zoom leaf-shutter lens, that may get overlooked by the usual small camera user. A more positive attribute of the X Vario that's there if you want to explore it.

    - Marc
    Hi Marc, Tom
    Well, it certainly does seem to sync at 1/2000th without problems or any vignetting (even at 28/f3.3) Not being a lighting kind of a guy I don't have any huge,expensive bits of lighting kit, but I assume it would work.
    FWIW the inboard flash still give full coverage at70mm and the closest working distance.
    All the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Marc, Tom
    Well, it certainly does seem to sync at 1/2000th without problems or any vignetting (even at 28/f3.3) Not being a lighting kind of a guy I don't have any huge,expensive bits of lighting kit, but I assume it would work.
    FWIW the inboard flash still give full coverage at70mm and the closest working distance.
    All the best
    Huge and expensive?

    You are right, you are not a lighting kind of guy ... and strives to prove it with statements like that.

    My advice is to duct-tape the on-board flash permanently closed. Super glue also works.



    Just yanking your chain Jono ...

    - Marc
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Vivek, you might find this to be of interest. Sync up to 1/4000
    That link indicates how "huge and expensive" a set up (not the ones that Marc would use) can be.

    At some point I had a LEITZ CEYOO flash. Pretty compact but was a bit too dangerous with a high voltage mercury battery.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Huge and expensive?

    You are right, you are not a lighting kind of guy ... and strives to prove it with statements like that.

    My advice is to duct-tape the on-board flash permanently closed. Super glue also works.



    Just yanking your chain Jono ...

    - Marc
    Hi Marc
    I already had duct-taped it shut, I just took the duct-tape off for a few minutes to check the sync speed for you

    I was planning to post some proof, but the snaps were so chronically uninspired that even I couldn't bring myself to post them!

    I still like the camera though (not just saying this to irritate Vivek, I really do like it!)

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Hi Jono, Of course, I would like that camera too (if I had a sample for testing at no cost).

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Popping in for a moment:

    Kirk Tuck just gushed about the Leica X Vario on his blog, "The Visual Science Lab" ...

    The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: I made a critical error in judgement today. Only my relative poverty is preventing a stumble into the German fantasy world of cameras.

    He'd talked about it previously too, in a not-so-enthusiastic manner:

    The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: Leica Swings. And misses? All depends on what you want from a camera...

    This just goes to show that cameras don't really live and die on specifications, despite all the crazy debates and arguments. They must be evaluated in person, individually. Some cameras that look wonderful on specs are real boners in use, and some that seem less than desirable on paper turn out to be gems in real life.

    After due reading of specs and other ya-da-ya-da, ya pays your money and ya takes your chances. With most modern cameras, performance is the least of your worries. ;-)

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Kirk Tuck exemplifies the sort of customer that Leica seem to be looking for with this camera. The one who falls in love with it without having even taken a single picture, let alone compared it.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Kirk is one of the nicest guys I know, and a great writer. Somewhat talented photographer as well.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    I have no beef whatsoever with KT. Only pointing out that his post discusses falling in love with this camera without shooting a single picture. Whatever floats his boat. Just, it doesn't have to float mine...

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Nor mine. I'll stick with Timex, no need for a Rolex.

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    Re: New Mini M?

    I won't go into details. I haven't bought one yet. I haven't even committed to buying one, but on the way home I was looking for refundable soda bottles beside the road and when I got home I started looking behind the couch and chair cushions on the outside chance that someone's $2700 pocket change had fallen out of their pockets and come to rest, sub-cushion. The camera is that seductive.
    That is how seriously seductive it is (to him). :sleep006:

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Quote:

    "I should have turned my head and looked at cheap video sliders instead but in the moment that I hesitated Ron could sense my weakness and he pounced like a mongoose on a dizzy cobra. Yes. He handed me the camera. And that was all it really took. Now I am in love."

    When I read this I had to laugh as this has happened to me before, not with just Leica's but anything is beautifully crafted ... my McIntosh MC302 power amp and McIntosh C2300 vacuum tube preamplifier was seductive as well

    In my situation as I recently sold my Nikon D600 body and lens, seems I could not bond with it and it sat on shelf at home all the time.

    A lot of cameras can produce great picture image quality today and I tempted with Leica X Vario for both its build quality and image quality

    Dan
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    Re: New Mini M?

    Just ordered the Leica X Vario today

    now the hard part waiting for the camera

    Dan

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    Re: New Mini M?

    Newly released X Vario review by Ming Thein.

    The 2013 Leica X Vario (Typ 107) review

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