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New Mini M?

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Jono

What is the point of a "teaser" campaign that is read and discussed on the forums .if the product turns out to be of little interest to the majority of readers ? Thats the inconsistency .

The Panasonic rebrands are pretty good cameras (we have had two in our family and they were both really loved ) ..they have style and the Leica Red Dot and sell at prices that seem reasonable even if a little higher than the Panasonics .

If the new Mini is the camera between the x1/x2 and the new M ..it has to be a pretty decent camera to justify spending $3-4K . At that level ..you can t have the majority of enthusiasts panning the camera . Like the x1/x2 you would want a camera thats not an M but enough to be a good value to those that understand what Leica has to offer .

My point ..don t aim a campaign at your loyal customer base thats concerned about your future direction (luxury brand) and offer a product aimed at exploiting the brand ....and expect an enthusiast response . I think thats what is causing the rub ...just like HB did with the lunar .

Lets see what they bring on June 11th .
 

Shashin

Well-known member
It would be interesting to track the sales of mini M and m4/3 stick-on logos. I am sure that some will buy this camera, but will they disguise it by hiding the red dot?
 

jonoslack

Active member
It would be interesting to track the sales of mini M and m4/3 stick-on logos. I am sure that some will buy this camera, but will they disguise it by hiding the red dot?
Per has it. Lots of people have asked for this camera as a replacement for the Digilux 2 over the years (if the leaks are right), and it IS unique as a fixed zoom APS-c camera (whatever Guy may say).

The effective depth of field is roughly the same as the Digilux 2 and the smaller aperture should be made up with better high ISO.

Don't want it? Fine, I don't want it either (just like I didn't want a Digilux2). But I don't see the problem with the concept, and if its good I'm sure it'll sell.

But calling it a Mini-M. Pshaw!
 

edwardkaraa

New member
Certainly calling all their camera line up M wasn't the smartest idea. Mini, micro, nano got you guys all worked up, but it was obvious from the beginning the only M in that teaser is the M and the rest is like cute nicknames for their consumer line up. Therefore I fully agree that the teaser campaign was very misleading and misrepresenting to the actual product, which is NOT in an intermediate position between the M and the X2. It is just another model in the X family. if I was running Leica, the people responsible for this total marketing blunder would be fired. The camera itself, the X-Vario, is a nice product, but it was grossly misrepresented which created very high expectations and inevitable frustration in the Leica fan club.
 

jonoslack

Active member
V

Vivek

Guest
:ROTFL:

I like the wit, Jono. But with you being British, it may be a bit too much if I were to expound on what "unique" means. :)

I will try anyway.

Monochrome camera with full frame sensor that is current and accessible- the Leica MM. Unique.

Monochrome still picture camera or back that is the cheapest in the market and quite likely to remain so for quite a long time to come- the Leica MM. Unique.
 

jonoslack

Active member
:ROTFL:

I like the wit, Jono. But with you being British, it may be a bit too much if I were to expound on what "unique" means. :)
Hi Vivek. It this context, unique simply relates to:

Large sensor (APS-c or larger) camera with a built in zoom lens

That's not too obscure. If you can tell me another camera like this I'll eat another of my tasty hats.

Value judgements aren't that relevant here

Likely to remain unique about as long as a full frame monochrome camera I'd say :)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Sheesh I don't know why I'm defending this thing.
Hi Jono, That makes two of us. Rather unique. :)

REX-10 has been rumored for quite a while. This will sit (if it shows up and with a zoom) in between the REX-1 and the 10.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Jono, That makes two of us. Rather unique. :)

REX-10 has been rumored for quite a while. This will sit (if it shows up and with a zoom) in between the REX-1 and the 10.
Never heard of the RX-10. And your link to Sony rumours wasn't helpful. Still, if they do it I'm sure it'll be great. . . . .and that I won't want that either:)
There's also rumours of a monochrome D800. So I guess we're quits on the unique front.
Time for tea and a nice bottle of Graves!
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Wow! I never heard that!

If there is a monochrome DSLR that would be the second in the camera history and the second with a full frame (not throwing this in with any intention to be contradictory or argumentative but they are the facts).
 

pophoto

New member
I haven't had time to read through the entire thread and have only captured a small appreciation of the disappointment to the Mini M, however, I haven't quite formed an opinion yet since I haven't seen or heard anything official or near yet!

Although I will say it goes under my mirrorless category and two main disappointments about this market still hold true for me.
1) Manual focus
2) Phase detection sensor (or in part) with Continuous Auto Focus.

Also every "fixed lens" mirrorless still hovers around the 35mm region and newer cameras going at 28mm. The exception being with Sigma Merrils. I know this is still a favorite normal wide focal length for many photographers who like street shooting or environmental portraits, however, I still find 50mm and higher a personal choice.

If the mini M can address at least better manual focusing, it'll probably be the first! Having owned the M9, X1 and X2 in the past. If the Mini M builds on the stylish X2 with further speed refinements and handling, I'd probably take a look despite the rumored slower zoom lens. If quality is there, it can be a fun camera. At the least it may offer me a focal length that I will like. Futher, there's nothing new to Leica leaving us wanting for more. They've always offered exception lens quality but little else. So what's new? Not the price.
 

D&A

Well-known member
My feeling is if it's an X2 with zoom lens thaen the enthusiasm for this camera will be relatively short lived and it's target audience somewhat limited by what is and will be available by other manufacturers.

On the other hand if they could take this same upcoming APS sized sensor camera and essentially make it a interchangeable M mount camera and introduce the same zoom lens (for Aps cropped sensors of course), I trhink it would appeal to a very wide audience...both enthusiasts here on the forums as well as the general public. It will kiss two birds with one stone, so to speak.

Dave (D&A)
 

pophoto

New member
Dave,

I don't disagree with you there! I'm hoping they build off of the X2, obviously functionality like the M9 is desirable, but there is no denying the X2 compactness in size. Built in viewfinder of some type without a hump. Honestly the designers behind the EVF humps are a disgrace! A camera should either have it built in or NOT offer one to begin with! (Arguable I know!)

My eyes are on Sony to be honest :p
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Wow! I never heard that!

If there is a monochrome DSLR that would be the second in the camera history and the second with a full frame (not throwing this in with any intention to be contradictory or argumentative but they are the facts).
Ummm... more like the umpteenth. Kodak made a whole bunch of them, starting in the late eighties:

EO, 1.4MP, Dec. 1987 (Canon F1) (succeeded by the "Tactical")
Hawkeye II, 1.3MP, May 1989 (Nikon F3)
DCS DM3 (a.k.a. DCS 100), 1.3MP, May 1991 (Nikon F3)
DCS 200M (and 200MI), 1.5MP, Aug. 1992 (Nikon N8008s)
DCS 420M, 1.5MP, Aug. 1994 (Nikon N90s)
DCS 460M, 6MP, Dec. 1994 (Nikon N90s)
EOS DCS 1M, 6MP, Dec. 1995 (Canon EOS-1N)
EOS DCS 3M, 1.3MP, July 1995 (Canon EOS-1N)
EOS DCS 5M, 1.5MP, Dec. 1994 (Canon EOS-1N)
DCS 560M, 6MP, Sept. 1998 (Canon EOS-1N)
DCS 660M, 6MP, Dec. 1999 (Nikon F5)
DCS 760m, 6MP, Jul. 2001 (Nikon F5)
 
To me, the beauty of Leica 35mm is the rangefinder. If you don't need that, there are a lot of great options out there.
There is nothing in 24 x 36 with this size and lenses quality on the market actually, that's the only reason why I bought a Leica M9 and now a M 240

The only problem of M for me are the limitations of the rangefinder and no AF lenses, as soon as another company release something similar with EVF and AF lenses I'll certainly sell all my Leica M gear
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Ummm... more like the umpteenth. Kodak made a whole bunch of them, starting in the late eighties:

EO, 1.4MP, Dec. 1987 (Canon F1) (succeeded by the "Tactical")
Hawkeye II, 1.3MP, May 1989 (Nikon F3)
DCS DM3 (a.k.a. DCS 100), 1.3MP, May 1991 (Nikon F3)
DCS 200M (and 200MI), 1.5MP, Aug. 1992 (Nikon N8008s)
DCS 420M, 1.5MP, Aug. 1994 (Nikon N90s)
DCS 460M, 6MP, Dec. 1994 (Nikon N90s)
EOS DCS 1M, 6MP, Dec. 1995 (Canon EOS-1N)
EOS DCS 3M, 1.3MP, July 1995 (Canon EOS-1N)
EOS DCS 5M, 1.5MP, Dec. 1994 (Canon EOS-1N)
DCS 560M, 6MP, Sept. 1998 (Canon EOS-1N)
DCS 660M, 6MP, Dec. 1999 (Nikon F5)
DCS 760m, 6MP, Jul. 2001 (Nikon F5)
Nice collation! :)

Any idea how many units of each were produced/sold and how much they cost? ;)

The DCS 760m, 6MP price was US $10,000/- in 2001.
 

ShooterSteve

New member
I think Leica's forte is their optics. If I were Leica, this new camera would be a compact mirrorless body with the M mount. No coupled RF system, just focus peaking and simple 100% zoom for critical focusing. I can't imagine they would introduce another X series camera and call it a Mini M. I also miss my Digilux 2 which sits broken in my office, but I doubt any fixed zoom lens camera from Leica could compete with M4/3 or Sony NEX cameras.
 

Amin

Active member
No they don't Guy
As far as I'm aware there isn't a single alternative fixed zoom camera with an APS-C sized sensor. Made by anyone. And as far as I'm aware there never has been (digital that is)
Or am I going mad!
There is the Canon G1X, which has 1.8X crop (nearly APS-C) sensor: Canon PowerShot G1 X Review: Digital Photography Review

And in the past there was the Sony R1, which was 1.5X crop APS-C: Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1 Review: Digital Photography Review
 
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