New Mini M?

[Vivek]

just go on google and type in "fill flash" and you will understand

No i do not understand.

The only camera I ever had that allowed for high speed flash sync (without special flash modes) was a Nikon D70. Most are 1/160s to 1/250s.

You claim that you use the pop up at high shutter speeds- the speeds we are discussing are as high as 1/2000s. I am not even certain that can be done with the pop up in the mini M.

 

[monza]

Vivek, you might find this to be of interest. Sync up to 1/4000

 

[Vivek]

Thanks, man!

Now, that I understand and do appreciate.

 

[Paratom]

No i do not understand.

The only camera I ever had that allowed for high speed flash sync (without special flash modes) was a Nikon D70. Most are 1/160s to 1/250s.

You claim that you use the pop up at high shutter speeds- the speeds we are discussing are as high as 1/2000s. I am not even certain that can be done with the pop up in the mini M.

Here is an example with the Coolpix A at 1/500.
Without flash the boy in the shaddow would be to dark.
With 1/125 the dog would be not sharp.
Advantage of leaf shutter cameras.

 

[Vivek]

I have hundreds of shots taken with an Olympus pen F (not a leaf shutter but a rotary shutter) perfectly synced and exposed at 1/500s.

I do not see any pop up doing that, be it a coolpix or a mini M.

BTW, Tom, that coolpix shutter isn't what you think it is.

 

[Paratom]

I have hundreds of shots taken with an Olympus pen F (not a leaf shutter but a rotary shutter) perfectly synced and exposed at 1/500s.

I do not see any pop up doing that, be it a coolpix or a mini M.

BTW, Tom, that coolpix shutter isn't what you think it is.

Thank you Vivek to explain to me what the camera I use (and which you do not use) can do and what it can not.
I just wonder why you asked about fill flash if you have done hundreds of images. Now I am really frustrated the x-vario doesnt have a rotary shutter, damn.

 

[Vivek]

Tom, I think it is a clear case of not understanding what is posted. Nothing more.

Without going in to details of the mini discussion about leaf shutters and high speed syncs, let me just say that there is no intention on my part to confuse you or slight you. Some key points were missed and let us just leave that. I have to blame my lack of German (despite having lived and worked in your country for several years), otherwise I would have sent you a PM explaining it in Deutsch.

 

[fotografz]

Marc, would you really want to use such a portable camera with studio lights?
However I find the leaf shutter usefull for fill flash with the little integrated flash (at short distances) or maybe with the sf24d.

Why not?

Of course, most strobe stuff I do is with the S2 and CS or Hasselblad 100/2.2 lenses.

However, I have all sorts of portable lighting rigs, some quite small and fun to use. The number one attribute being ... getting the aux light OFF the camera and more directional, using modifiers that are far better than any speed-light version. It doesn't matter what camera it is, it will benefit from that rather than just flat head on lighting ... fill or not.

This camera benefits even more because it can be used up to at least 1/1000, and more likely than not, to 1/2000 without vignetting ... if you use the right transmitter ... in my case the Profoto AIR system ... or hard wire it using a proper hot-shoe sync adapter.

- Marc

 

[fotografz]

Vivek, you might find this to be of interest. Sync up to 1/4000

The problem with this (if you read the whole thread) is the need to use very specific speed-lights , transmitters, and accessories. The speed-light required is pretty huge on these small cameras if used for fill, and won't hyper sync when used that way ... or if used off-camera with hyper-sync, they are still speed-lights which are incredibly limiting compared to off-camera strobes ... even smaller ones like the EL Quadra.

The sample the guy uses is quite nice, and the photographer knows lighting. However, it is a deceptive example ... a very contained situation with aux light used in a very small area on the subject, and the lighting was probably very close to the subject just out of frame camera right. Good for that specific creative situation, but perhaps not many more demanding ones. Speed-lights simply suffer from a crippling level of output when any distance is added to the equation. Even a lowly Quadra is 4 to 5 times the output of the most powerful speed-light.

I'd hazard a guess, that will not be a limitation of the VX since it is a Leaf Shutter lens just the same as those used in MF lenses like Hasselblad H lenses, Phase One LS, Leica CS, which sync to 1/800, 1/1000, or more. In the case of the VX more likely to 1/2000 using ANY speed-light on camera for fill, or any strobe system, with no gerry-rigging, or hunt for rare parts.

Try lighting this at such a distance with a speed-light ... trust me, it's not gonna happen:

Bridal Party - Leica S2 using Hasselblad HC-50-II via H to S adapter. Leaf Shutter mode @ 1/750 sync speed ... lit by Profoto Acute B600L AIR and Elinchrom Rotalux 39" deep Octa with... GetDPI Image Gallery

Get closer, and yeah, a speed-light can work ... like this using a SF58 on an S2 using a HC 100/2.2 @ 1/500 sync rather than the S2s focal plane shutter sync of 1/125 (which would have been 2 stops brighter and blown out the background that was lit by direct sun). It just depends on how bright the background you are trying to expose correctly actually is.

Wedding-085 - Leica S2 with Hasselblad HC-100/2.2 using high-speed sync leaf-shutter @ 1/500th. GetDPI Image Gallery

In essence, it appears that the VX can be used with aux lighting the same way as the big Leaf Shutter kits. What fun :thumbs:

-Marc

 

[Paratom]

Why not?

Of course, most strobe stuff I do is with the S2 and CS or Hasselblad 100/2.2 lenses.

However, I have all sorts of portable lighting rigs, some quite small and fun to use. The number one attribute being ... getting the aux light OFF the camera and more directional, using modifiers that are far better than any speed-light version. It doesn't matter what camera it is, it will benefit from that rather than just flat head on lighting ... fill or not.

This camera benefits even more because it can be used up to at least 1/1000, and more likely than not, to 1/2000 without vignetting ... if you use the right transmitter ... in my case the Profoto AIR system ... or hard wire it using a proper hot-shoe sync adapter.

- Marc

I just thought that when you carry all the light/flash stuff than you can also bring a bigger camera. The other thing is that as soon as you put flash or transmitter on the hotshoe you cant use the EVF any more.

On the other side - why not.

 

[fotografz]

I just thought that when you carry all the light/flash stuff than you can also bring a bigger camera. The other thing is that as soon as you put flash or transmitter on the hotshoe you cant use the EVF any more.

On the other side - why not.

Well, not everyone has a Leica S and CS lenses, a Hasselblad H5D, or Phase One DF with LS lenses to go forth with dead serious intent

Plus, the other item that you missed when you carry the big gun leaf Shutter camera system and battery powered strobe kit to match it ... is another person to help carry it

For the more modest practitioner, a demure Quadra Lithium generator with it's teeny-tiny head and thin cords will literally fit in a medium shoulder bag with plenty of room for a VX. Throw it over your shoulder, grab a light stand and folded EL 27" Rotalux deep Octa and off you go ... a one man, Pro level band to shoot the Grandkids, Family Reunion groups, beach sunset portraits, and all the other stuff people use these cameras for.

What is also interesting about using one of these type cameras with the LCD rather than an EVF, is that camera shake is less of a concern ... using a higher shutter speed outdoors coupled with a short flash duration helps mitigate that issue a lot. :shocked:

It is just a fun feature of a camera with a zoom leaf-shutter lens, that may get overlooked by the usual small camera user. A more positive attribute of the X Vario that's there if you want to explore it. :thumbup:

- Marc

 

[jonoslack]

It is just a fun feature of a camera with a zoom leaf-shutter lens, that may get overlooked by the usual small camera user. A more positive attribute of the X Vario that's there if you want to explore it. :thumbup:

- Marc

Hi Marc, Tom
Well, it certainly does seem to sync at 1/2000th without problems or any vignetting (even at 28/f3.3) Not being a lighting kind of a guy I don't have any huge,expensive bits of lighting kit, but I assume it would work.
FWIW the inboard flash still give full coverage at70mm and the closest working distance.
All the best

 

[fotografz]

Hi Marc, Tom
Well, it certainly does seem to sync at 1/2000th without problems or any vignetting (even at 28/f3.3) Not being a lighting kind of a guy I don't have any huge,expensive bits of lighting kit, but I assume it would work.
FWIW the inboard flash still give full coverage at70mm and the closest working distance.
All the best

Huge and expensive?

You are right, you are not a lighting kind of guy ... and strives to prove it with statements like that.

My advice is to duct-tape the on-board flash permanently closed. Super glue also works.



Just yanking your chain Jono ...

- Marc

 

[Vivek]

Vivek, you might find this to be of interest. Sync up to 1/4000

That link indicates how "huge and expensive" a set up (not the ones that Marc would use) can be.

At some point I had a LEITZ CEYOO flash. Pretty compact but was a bit too dangerous with a high voltage mercury battery.

 

[jonoslack]

Huge and expensive?

You are right, you are not a lighting kind of guy ... and strives to prove it with statements like that.

My advice is to duct-tape the on-board flash permanently closed. Super glue also works.



Just yanking your chain Jono ...

- Marc

Hi Marc
I already had duct-taped it shut, I just took the duct-tape off for a few minutes to check the sync speed for you :facesmack:

I was planning to post some proof, but the snaps were so chronically uninspired that even I couldn't bring myself to post them!

I still like the camera though (not just saying this to irritate Vivek, I really do like it!)

 

[Vivek]

Hi Jono, Of course, I would like that camera too (if I had a sample for testing at no cost).

 

[Godfrey]

Popping in for a moment:

Kirk Tuck just gushed about the Leica X Vario on his blog, "The Visual Science Lab" ...

The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: I made a critical error in judgement today. Only my relative poverty is preventing a stumble into the German fantasy world of cameras.

He'd talked about it previously too, in a not-so-enthusiastic manner:

The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: Leica Swings. And misses? All depends on what you want from a camera...

This just goes to show that cameras don't really live and die on specifications, despite all the crazy debates and arguments. They must be evaluated in person, individually. Some cameras that look wonderful on specs are real boners in use, and some that seem less than desirable on paper turn out to be gems in real life.

After due reading of specs and other ya-da-ya-da, ya pays your money and ya takes your chances. With most modern cameras, performance is the least of your worries. ;-)

G

 

[philber]

Kirk Tuck exemplifies the sort of customer that Leica seem to be looking for with this camera. The one who falls in love with it without having even taken a single picture, let alone compared it.

 

[monza]

Kirk is one of the nicest guys I know, and a great writer. Somewhat talented photographer as well.

 

[philber]

I have no beef whatsoever with KT. Only pointing out that his post discusses falling in love with this camera without shooting a single picture. Whatever floats his boat. Just, it doesn't have to float mine...