Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 90

Thread: Leica M 240 test see samples here

  1. #1
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Leica M 240 test see samples here

    I am right now testing a Leica M 240 with 2 lenses 2,5/35mm and 2,5/90mm and I have to say this quality reaches into MF teritory easily.
    I have done some shots last week on an oldtimer show here in Friedrichshafen/Bodensee and worked on these on the weekend - the results can be seen here:

    https://www.facebook.com/stefan.steib/photos_all

    Greetings from Germany
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Stefan,

    When I click on the link, I see one steering wheel of a car with jaggies. Can't find much in it.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Hosermage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Vivek, I think you'll have to sign up with facebook in order to see it. I don't have one, so I don't know for sure.
    David Young
    My journey into Leica: LeicaLux.com

  4. #4
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Aha! Thanks, David.

    Not going to happen, ever.
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  5. #5
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Sorry for the non facebookers, I will post these images soon also on Flickr.
    here is one on Get DPI but there they are so small....

    The GetDPI Photography Forums - Stefan Steib's Album: Stefan´s Test images - Picture

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  6. #6
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  7. #7
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    OK and here now on Flickr - these are up to 3000px

    Flickr: stefan.steib's Photostream
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Thanks, Stefan.

    I like the pics from Kolkata. It does not matter what camera was used for those.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    In my article (for german DIGIT!) I will post some cutouts from the Leica, it is amazing how sharp these are even more the DR in the shadows is extreme, much better than my Canon 5D MK2 or even the 3.
    The camera delivers MF quality - IF- you treat it like a MF.
    All of these were shot from a stable tripod, I cannot use this camera out of hand, I don´t have any grip on it. And the Finder is still useless for me. But the liveview changes everything. I have not yet worked with the Nex 7 intensely , but the focus confirmation throughout the image even if stopped down is really unique.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Hi Stefan,

    Is that an online magazine or printed? Please post a link to it when that is ready.

    Edit: This appears to be the only magazine with that name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_%28magazine%29

    Is that the one?

    I am intrigued by your assessment and personally think that it is better for Leica to have such reviews instead of some paid online sources propagating a secluded religion.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    It is a bimonthly print magazine, but they also have an electronic issue they publish as pdf. Their website is here:

    Home | d i g i t ! they are also on Facebook
    https://www.facebook.com/digit.profimagazin

    I´m writing a regular "opinion" column and articles now about highend imaging, digital MF, digital large format (see last issue my article about Rencay) and now on stuff like "Myths" as the Leica.

    Greetings from Germany
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Good to know! A direct link (if available) would be useful.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    The articles are not to be downloaded separately, but the full pdf issues can be bought online here:

    digit - epaper als Zeitschriften-PDF am Online-Kiosk herunterladen

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  14. #14
    Senior Member JoelM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    San Diego, CA USA
    Posts
    264
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    and I have to say this quality reaches into MF teritory easily. Stefan
    That's quite a statement and I would like some objective proof of that. Are you referring to MF film or digital? If you like the results more than MF, that is very subjective, but saying that IQ is easily comparable or better perhaps, that does not sound right to me. I'm a scientist and need proof

    Thanks,

    Joel

  15. #15
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,672
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by JoelM View Post
    That's quite a statement and I would like some objective proof of that. Are you referring to MF film or digital? If you like the results more than MF, that is very subjective, but saying that IQ is easily comparable or better perhaps, that does not sound right to me. I'm a scientist and need proof

    Thanks,

    Joel
    Joel, I am too but it's hard to both quantify and qualify what consititutes for example "reaching into MF territory". Partly as you pointed out, there are many both measurable and subjective parameters that might support such a statement and often times a discussion as to whether "it does" or "doesn't" can be an endless (although sometimes productive) discussion. I've even encoutered images, sometimes in print, that were taken with a particulary selected 35mm DSLR and lens and it was more MF like in look than many MF files I've seen printed similary in large format printing.

    I'm sure Stephen has good reasons for his statement and certainly is quite verse in what looks and constitutes the look of the MF image.

    Again my comments are simply an expression of my thoughts, not a direct comment to anyones posted comments in this thread, nor a commentary as to whether the M240 files reach to what some refer to as MF territory. I'm definitely don't have enough experience at this time, working with and printing M240 files, to make any sort of reasonable assesment. Interesting though since we are talking about a 24 MP camera and that sort of resolution up to now isn't generally though of as MF territory (in terms of file size) although as often said, it's not all about the MP's...so there is apparently something else about the files that Stephen feels is worth discussing

    Dave (D&A)
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  16. #16
    Subscriber and Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,794
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Joel,

    Please bear in mind that photography is part art, part craft and not a scientific endeavor...thank God for that. Proof is a bit difficult for a subjective statement about one's opinion...my observation in 35 years of medical practice.

    However when some very experienced photographers, some of them scientists, repeat the sentiment that it does run with the big guns one can feel confident that conditions favor the posited statement.

    To whit:

    Tim Ashley - "Get a shot correctly exposed and well focussed on one of the better lenses and I think, at a pixel level, it gives better results than anything I know."

    Tim is very objective in his multiple criticisms of the camera....

    Full article here:

    Tim Ashley Photography | Leica M240 - The Final Inspection: Does it Pass Muster?

    Mark Dubovoy - "When I first saw this image, I was stunned by the image quality on the screen. The white balance, sharpness, detail, color rendition, contrast, Dynamic Range, etc. were all superb.

    This image looked much better to me than it deserved to, particularly since it came from "a mere 24 Megapixel camera".

    Next step, I made a 24x30 inch print of the image. I was stunned again. The print looked like it might be the best print of this size I had ever gotten from a 35 mm size sensor."

    Again there are many elements of the camera that are criticized in his review.

    Full article here:

    I WILL NOT BUY THAT CAMERA. I PROMISE...


    I doubt that photographers at this level will be shooting test charts, brick walls or newspapers to compare quality....however both of the above have used Phase 160/180 and Leica S2...I assume they know a rose when they see one.

    At the present I do not have a dog in this hunt...I have turned down three offers for the Leica M as my Leica Monochrom, Sony RX1 and Ricoh GXR M mount have given me time to look for proof of quality...and it seems to be more evident daily.

    Regards,

    Bob
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  17. #17
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    I had been in science long enough to say this- there are global truths and local truths, each founded on a set of hypotheses with some having proof. Science itself is not infallible.

    Also, looking at the glorious history of a technologically most advanced nation, science as a selling point is bound to be looked at with skepticism at best by most public (you need not have to look at Glyco Heroin for coughs or X-ray therapy for hirsutism, just look up Tang)

    Stefan already stated he writes an opinion column. Those are his opinions based on his own experience.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  18. #18
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    I had already given one full DNG to a colleague, so here we go - that´s the one I made a BW with it - see here
    Oldie-011 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    here is the original DNG. I made my image with LR5, PS CS6 and Nik.
    http://www.hcam.de/upload/L1001064.DNG

    try it you will quickly see what I mean. This was shot with the 2,5/90mm 1/25sec f6,8 at 200 ISO.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  19. #19
    Subscriber and Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,794
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    try it you will quickly see what I mean. This was shot with the 2,5/90mm 1/25sec f6,8 at 200 ISO.

    Regards
    Stefan
    Wonderful file!

    Fairly neutral post processing:

    Stefan Steib's DNG




    I do prefer your picture but this may show the intrinsic file a bit more....


    Bob

  20. #20
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Bob

    The best thing is the noisefree depth, try the following - pull dark areas up as far as possible (I did it in LR5) and on the left there is the dark inside of the BMW´s wheel housing, if you do this you can see the shockabsorber quite clearly and still there is no noise.......... crazy !

    The 2,5/90mm has a bit of out of focus chroma but the focused area is a joy to look at. The Summarits are supposed to be the "cheap ones"(relatively spoken in Leica terms). Well maybe from the price, but not from the images.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  21. #21
    Subscriber and Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,794
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Stefan,

    Indeed a wonderful file at this ISO!

    I shot a number of portraits for my daughter and her fiancé ... now husband with a couple of camera/lens combinations. My overall favorite in rendering was the Summarit 75 2.5 on the Monochrom ... and I prefer their overall smaller profile.

    The 90 and indeed the 135 non-Summarit would work well with the focus function of the new Leica M ... at my age the 75 is the longest I can focus consistently in any light without live-view.


    Bob

  22. #22
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Bob

    that´s the other strong point for the 240 - other than Tim Ashley who loves the Viewfinder I can really ONLY work satifactory with liveview. Whereas then the hit/miss rate for me is 100/0 !
    I have never ever before found such an easy focusing device with such exactness and even stopped down showing the focus marks through the image precisely - and - in a good viewing quality !

    The bitter point for Leica may be - that shooting it out of hand will probably leave you always with shaken images - unless you have full sunlight and maybe 1/500 and shorter. The Resolution is so good it has evolved into a tripod device (as are nearly all Digital cameras over 20 Mpix -with no IS lenses available - if you use them with best quality setting and a bit stopped down).

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  23. #23
    Subscriber and Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,794
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Stefan,

    When one realizes the advantages of good tripod-based capture it seems
    a step down to handhold....if not a tripod for me then a monopod and timer for 95% of my photography .... any camera any light.

    But I do not shoot action or sports so it is not a detriment to my preferred style of shooting.

    Bob

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Stefan-Lovely photos. What MF digital camera do you use in order to make comparisons against the M?

  25. #25
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    I would say the M240 is definitely comparable to a P25+ or a P30+ from the resolution. Maybe even better as the lenses seem to be fully on par with the 24 Mpix of the M. The DR is outstanding on the same level as the best Backs today like IQ180 or Credo 80 or Hasselblad H4d50MS.
    I have used Digital backs and scanbacks from day one back in 1994 to today and about anything in between, I do consulting for customers who buy systems and I calibrate and set them up, I also write articles about it now . My favourite back of all times is and will be the P45+. I love this.

    The Leica Liveview is the best Liveview I have seen so far , better than my Canon´s I use, even with magic lantern. The rate of hits for 100 % sharp images is nearly 100 % if you use the focus indicators at the working aperture. Amazing ! This is definitely superior to medium format.
    This is a cmos I would wish to exist in double the size with maybe 50 MPix. A wet dream.........

    I am right now testing the first ever made Novoflex EOS to Leica M adapter with a Mirex TS and several of my favourite lenses (e.g. the Mamiya 4/80mm Macro) and I have some more Novoflex adapters like the OM and Nikon to M, + a Novoflex TS Bellows with a Schneider 4/90mm, so the next days I will be pretty busy.

    Regards
    Stefan

    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  26. #26
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Bob

    that´s the other strong point for the 240 - other than Tim Ashley who loves the Viewfinder I can really ONLY work satifactory with liveview. Whereas then the hit/miss rate for me is 100/0
    Hi there Stefan
    Great images.

    Tim actually found focusing with the rangefinder more accurate than with live view. He also found that for lenses without focus shift it was better to focus wide open using Live View. Sean Reid has done some testing and also thinks you should stop down with live view.

    I'm inclined to agree with Tim, that with practice the rangefinder is best. The new improved M rangefinder even works well with the 135 APO for me. On the other hand I'm with you on live view: focus at the Aperture you want to use.

    I'm not getting camera shake with the M any more than with the M9, of course using a tripod would yield sharper results but I lose the will to live if I use a tripod, so I'll continue using the lovely new M hand held, and mostly with the optical rangefinder.

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Doug from East TN
    Posts
    482
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    The bitter point for Leica may be - that shooting it out of hand will probably leave you always with shaken images - unless you have full sunlight and maybe 1/500 and shorter. The Resolution is so good it has evolved into a tripod device (as are nearly all Digital cameras over 20 Mpix -with no IS lenses available - if you use them with best quality setting and a bit stopped down).
    I have noticed this same thing true with Nikon D800E at 36 mpx. I have shot a lot of Nikons, and it seems the most sensitive I have shot to camera shake. That includes the D3X, D3S, D700, D3, D2Xs, and D2X.

    At least you are in the right country to actually put your hands on a M 240. Not seen a vapor of one where I am here, but then we don't even have a Leica store. sigh...

  28. #28
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ... but I lose the will to live if I use a tripod ...
    No drama there, eh Jono? ];-)

    I haven't been as rigorous about it as I was a few years back, I guess I'm getting into the blur world, but I tend to use a tripod with almost any camera whenever great detailing is essential to my photographic aim. It's almost more important with ultra wide angle lenses then with telephotos as wides rest on the depth of their detailing to be successful in many cases.

    Ah well. Lovely photos of the Alvis, Stefan! The M 240 looks wonderful. But it's another year and some on for me at least, if I decide to go that way. (I'm having too much fun shooting 6x6 film at present, and the M9 is still a baby. ;-)

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 20th June 2013 at 10:02.

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    All very nice - in the real wprld - it is VAPORWARE Leica - at the moment it is fanboy gear - forum fodder - vapourware DELUXO - by the time it comes out next year some time - the fanboys will be selling - after they have been given the heads up - regarding the next model - which will be even better ..

    sorry to be a wet blanket

  30. #30
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Jono
    The tripod thing is kind of self supporting for me, I can carry the camera better and safer mounted on a tripod when I walk around like on the Oldtimer shooting. Then - next people somehow appreciate you when you take your stuff seriously - I had this maybe 20 times during this shooting, visitors (also car owners) coming up to me, see leica M nod their heads, watch me setting my tripod and walked off showing signs of agreement , kind of yes you have to do it like that. I did not once have someone telling me I should not photograph. The bonusfactor of the Leica is like a Porsche 911 face showing up behind you on highway, you just go to the right lane....


    Photojazz
    The Nikon D800E is actually also a MF camera using a smaller chip.
    I would tend to make a whole new definition and say every camera beyond a certain net resolution or over 20 Mpix on fullformat 24x36 maybe "MF".
    The lines are blurred now, the results look very similar and I am sure using a tripod does make more difference than maybe 10 or 20 Mpix more and a larger chip area ?

    Peter
    Leica has built a new production line in Solms and I am pretty sure they are building plenty of them, they are just sucked off the dealers shelves in hyperspeed...... :-)

    Greetings from Germany
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  31. #31
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    832
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Stefan, I take it the Novoflex EOS to M adapter is limited to lenses with an aperture ring, so not for use with TS-E lenses?

  32. #32
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Yes - no electronic coupling. But for me that is nearly all I need as my Hartblei lenses fit now, the Mirex fits now and also my enlarger lenses fit.

    I am trying to get a uniform adaption/Lens scheme over all the cameras I use. That works now from (a soon to be bought-I hope) Nex 7 followup- to my canons, now the M (although this is for the test only) and my HCam-B1.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  33. #33
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    I would tend to side with Jono on the subject of tripods, etc.

    As these cameras continue to jack up the meg count and attendant resolution, I wonder if they aren't leaving behind their original intent, or at least re-defining it?

    Perhaps a difference is between Image Quality (scientific) and Image Qualities (creative)?

    Jono and a few others may well have the steady hands and control of a sniper that's required, but not many have that ... especially in the midst of spontaneous opportunities that these cameras built their reputation on, and were designed for.

    Personally, I noted this when my Nikon's reached 24 meg ... okay with VR lenses to a degree, but on the edge of challenging without it. So, I opted for the 24 meg A900 and A99 where ALL captures from any lens are stabilized with in-camera Steady-Shot technology.

    Now when I hear "approaching MFD IQ", and all the attendant alterations in shooting methodology required to accomplish that, it sends up red flags. In a way, it carries a negative connotation rather than a positive one ... because I am well aware of what is necessary to get the most from a MFD camera. So you end up with a few of the MFD benefits and none of the rest ... all while losing more and more of the spontaneity one expects from a 35mm DSLR, or especially a FF Rangefinder.

    35mm DSLRs at least offer a choice of lower meg sensors, but this M240 is one of a kind with no FF CMOS, live view recourse. I'm sure 24 meg is still doable, and I applaud Leica for not taking it further ... but it'll be interesting to see what comes next.

    While it is great that one can perch a tiny mobile spontaneous camera on top of an unwieldy, less mobile tripod and approach MFD quality (which is debatable on a creative aesthetic level, if not the resolution based argument), the question then becomes ... at what creative cost?

    - Marc
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  34. #34
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Marc

    I am with you about the shift of usage. But you are of course not forced to do what I have done. It´s just the way to squeeze out the last bit of quality of this camera lens combo. If you don´t do this you can of course use 400 or 800 ISO (or more) and shoot out of hand most of the time. You will just not reach the full res of the camera.

    That´s probably also something which should be next step for Leica and all the others who don´t have this: In Body stabilization ! Will probably lift average resolution more than additional megapixels !
    At the moment I see at least 50 % if not more of customer images NOT shot from tripod are shaken. Adobe somehow tries to address that with the new CC PS, but this seems to take plenty of CPU power and thus it is definitely preferrable to use camera stabilization.
    That way all the nice old lenses would also gain quality used digital.

    Again- shere huge MPIX are not the goal anymore, usability is definitely more important. If I have a Dodge Viper with Bicycle Tires it won´t work.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  35. #35
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Stefan, I see the problem with folks like you doing tests. Tripod? What next? A fluid head with dampening mechanism and stabilizer gyro head?

    Talk about expensive gear!
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  36. #36
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Vivek

    Yes - I was already thinking to call Arri to lend me one of their MK-1´s for my Test...... :-)

    http://ohiohdvideo.com/media/products/ArriHead.JPG

    BTW- my dream since years: I want to do Camera tests like Top Gear does car tests. Anybody interested to join ? :-)

    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  37. #37
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    The best I can do, Stefan, is a Sachtler ENG (aluminum and not the later carbon) tripod. I think it will support that Arri head though.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  38. #38
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Here is the crux of the issue with upping the megapixels on anything over 18mpx that you will not find in ANY marketing materials is to get the most out of them than a extremely good number of users should not even buy them because most folks will not use the techniques to draw the best from them. My D800e is a classic example of that. I need the best glass I can get my hands on to start and I need the best techniques live view, manual focus tripod bound 3 second delay on mirror up to draw the absolute the best file I can squeeze out of it. Now seriously has anyone seen that whole description of technique in a Nikon marketing piece. Not a chance and it is deceiving to the soccer Mom buyer. I know bad description but you know what I'm saying here.

    Although a M is maybe even worse in this as a M never really had the intentions of being tripod bound. But folks on this forum in this level of shooting are aware of that and if they want to squeeze every drop out of it than we know how to get there but it certainly is not in the marketing and even more so with a Leica RF since its history of use was never really meant to be on a tripod given the style of camera. The 240 enters a little diffrent level since its focusing accuracy can be improved beyond RF now with live view. This throws in a new element of thinking on the new M.

    Now at one time working as a Pro I bought in to the whole M8 idea hook line and sinker in respect as it was my primary and secondary cam. In the end the limitations of it outside its issue was proven to be a little bit of a stretch for me. Now having said that I now with the 240 could actually make it work in more shooting situations than I could with the M8. So this brings in new thinking and uses for a M that before seemed way to tough to deal with. Now this is from someone that shoots many diverse type of jobs and maybe if I was more specialized it could make it a great choice. Or lets put it this way I have a better shot at pulling it off with a 240 than I did a M8.

    I still would like to test the 240 myself given I come from shooting many MF backs and the Nokons. I won't argue the 240 abilities but I'm sure its threading closer to MF but again I would not wet your dreams over that comment either as the same thing is being said over a 36 mpx Nikon with good glass. Now are we closer with the 240 and D800 to MF than we where before these products . No question we are but on the same hand we need to take these new products to a higher level of technique to get there as well. Believe me the D800 is much harder to shoot to get quality than shooting a lower Mpx DX body.

    So where does all this new tech take us. In reality between us folks here and our more advanced level of a shooter, the answer really is you better up your game folks to get to that level and more importantly to squeeze out what they are capable of as well. you don't see any of what I just described in any marketing material. This is not a have too either as you can shoot these handheld but you still need to up your game or many shots will be crap too. That's from a technical POV.

    Guess a good saying here is this as these OEMs keep giving us better options and Mpx to work with we have some fundamental changes to make to get the best out of them as well. Once again poor technique will lead to even lessor quality as a low Mpx cam can hide our mistakes these new breds will not do that.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  39. #39
    Senior Member JohnBrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    532
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    New here, but I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents. I've shot my D800 @ 1/8 sec. with no shake, hand held. But I believe it is because the Zeiss 50 Macro balances perfectly. Anything else I need a higher speed or tripod. I've rarely shot any M on tripod, but a recent trip and trying to shoot a pano hand held with M8.2 resulted in an unusable mess. Not sure I want the new M, but I'm still open to the idea.

  40. #40
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    So where does all this new tech take us. In reality between us folks here and our more advanced level of a shooter, the answer really is you better up your game folks to get to that level and more importantly to squeeze out what they are capable of as well. you don't see any of what I just described in any marketing material. This is not a have too either as you can shoot these handheld but you still need to up your game or many shots will be crap too. That's from a technical POV.

    Guess a good saying here is this as these OEMs keep giving us better options and Mpx to work with we have some fundamental changes to make to get the best out of them as well. Once again poor technique will lead to even lessor quality as a low Mpx cam can hide our mistakes these new breds will not do that.



    This is the sort of things why I love this forum for its rich (useful) contents.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  41. #41
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    New here, but I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents. I've shot my D800 @ 1/8 sec. with no shake, hand held. But I believe it is because the Zeiss 50 Macro balances perfectly. Anything else I need a higher speed or tripod. I've rarely shot any M on tripod, but a recent trip and trying to shoot a pano hand held with M8.2 resulted in an unusable mess. Not sure I want the new M, but I'm still open to the idea.
    Welcome John.

    I know I said this before and even a small monopod is a very useful tool that many folks seem to leave behind when heading out but it is at least a 2 stop advantage. Heck I would take a monopod anyday over a VR system.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  42. #42
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    John
    as here on the forum are many pro shooters around who will probably confirm they also experienced this, I can also tell you I have done shots in my life where I did even a second out of hand perfectly sharp. But this was shere luck. I cannot repeat this by will and definitely NOT for pro work when I rely on a certain timeframe AND maybe have 1 or 2 shots before the image is over and gone.

    Guy
    most intriguing fact for me is that the Pro line of cameras is hit more by this than the "low level" point and shoot.
    Buy a compact today and you get stabilized handheld sharp images with pretty good quality. The technology, Software and Usability is there, it´s just not translated into Pro areas. Why not ? it´s expensive to devellop such systems and making a bunch of 1 million cameras for 100 $ pays off more easily than doing the same for maybe 5000 pieces even if these are sold for 50x the price.

    Greetings from Germany
    Stefan

    PS.: Vivek the only worthy tripod looks like this one:
    owyheesound
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  43. #43
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post


    This is the sort of things why I love this forum for its rich (useful) contents.
    +1

    - Marc

  44. #44
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Welcome John.

    I know I said this before and even a small monopod is a very useful tool that many folks seem to leave behind when heading out but it is at least a 2 stop advantage. Heck I would take a monopod anyday over a VR system.
    In general, I'd tend to agree, which is why I have 5 different Monopods of various sizes, including an original Leitz. 2 of them are always in the SUV if needed.

    Yet, for candid "of the moment" rangefinder work, it gets a little unwieldy when there is a 5' stick attached to the camera, and bending or squatting involves adjusting the stick.

    - Marc

  45. #45
    Member erick.boileau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Germany / France
    Posts
    247
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    I can really ONLY work satifactory with liveview.
    I have the M240 since Mach 2nd and I have never use the RF once (and will never anymore) , EVF and liveview are so flexible (+ focus peaking)

    for the question tripod or not : I use very often a monopod with a P0 Arca Swiss
    Last edited by erick.boileau; 20th June 2013 at 06:01.
    Leica M

  46. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Doug from East TN
    Posts
    482
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Great summary Guy, even with the mis-spells.

    I have a thick stick, a Feisol for heavy lenses, and a nice Gitzo normal size monopod for lighter rigs, even with a very light ballhead on it with swiss-arca screw mount. Great!

    I am one of a few I guess, that I have actually found comfort adapting a D700 L bracket to my M9 for comfort. I actually mount it with the L on the non shooting side, so it helps me stablize the camera in my hand, and use thumbs up on the other side for grip of right thumb. Makes me much surer with my grip. The only pain is, I have to unscrew and remount it every time I Change memory card. stinks, but I do it... The D800, just needs support, for sure. Tri-pod or monopod normally. D3X, somewhere in the middle, will let you know more when my replacement D3X comes today, after messing up and selling my first one. I miss pro body ergonomics.
    /M-TP240/MM+Luxious trinity(24:35:50) + 75 2.0 APO ASPH Cron + Nikon D3X/D700, 58 1.2 noct, 28 1.4d,200VR + Zeiss 35/50/100 + 135mm 2.0 DC, 17-35/24-70/70-200VRII, Einstein studio...

  47. #47
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    In general, I'd tend to agree, which is why I have 5 different Monopods of various sizes, including an original Leitz. 2 of them are always in the SUV if needed.

    Yet, for candid "of the moment" rangefinder work, it gets a little unwieldy when there is a 5' stick attached to the camera, and bending or squatting involves adjusting the stick.

    - Marc

    Lol. It's also a good insurance policy, if you know what I mean.

    The one nice thing though maybe not brought up yet as I have not read all the posts is Leicas RF ones that is have a great advantage is they have no mirror slap to deal with which is a nice plus for them.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  48. #48
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by Photojazz View Post
    Great summary Guy, even with the mis-spells.

    I have a thick stick, a Feisol for heavy lenses, and a nice Gitzo normal size monopod for lighter rigs, even with a very light ballhead on it with swiss-arca screw mount. Great!

    I am one of a few I guess, that I have actually found comfort adapting a D700 L bracket to my M9 for comfort. I actually mount it with the L on the non shooting side, so it helps me stablize the camera in my hand, and use thumbs up on the other side for grip of right thumb. Makes me much surer with my grip. The only pain is, I have to unscrew and remount it every time I Change memory card. stinks, but I do it... The D800, just needs support, for sure. Tri-pod or monopod normally. D3X, somewhere in the middle, will let you know more when my replacement D3X comes today, after messing up and selling my first one. I miss pro body ergonomics.
    Damn IPad spell check . Noticed I got a new cam called Nokon. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Jono


    Peter
    Leica has built a new production line in Solms and I am pretty sure they are building plenty of them, they are just sucked off the dealers shelves in hyperspeed...... :-)

    Greetings from Germany
    Stefan
    Hi Stefan - Decent supply will not be available till the new year at the very earliest - fact.
    In the meantime - lets all have fun with a 240

  50. #50
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Leica M 240 test see samples here

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I would tend to side with Jono on the subject of tripods, etc.

    As these cameras continue to jack up the meg count and attendant resolution, I wonder if they aren't leaving behind their original intent, or at least re-defining it?

    Perhaps a difference is between Image Quality (scientific) and Image Qualities (creative)?
    HI Marc,Stefan
    I like to think of it as IQ vs IC (Image Quality vs Image Content - Science vs Art) - I think about it a very great deal - it is actually the reason that I've never used medium format - because I'm pretty certain that although taking more time and concentrating on the process produces better IQ, it produces worse IC (for me at any rate).

    Another point though is that the finished image is just that . . it isn't a teeny weeny portion of it when you've zoomed in on a screen. More MP is great (more sample is nearly always better) - but if you look at a 12mp image at 100% you're looking at a much larger proportion of the finished image then you are looking at a 24mp image at 100%.

    I don't really think that there is more camera shake using a D800 than there was using a D700 - it's just that it's a hell of a lot more visible at 100% . . . Is it more visible in the finished image? I doubt it personally.

    . . . . . . . of course, this could all be me rationalising my lackadaisical photographic technique

    I think the point I'm trying to make is that one should be aware of the whole balance of subject / equipment / ease of shooting / IC / IS - just trying to squeeze the most detail out of a camera may be what you need . . . . but it also may not - which doesn't mean you don't want all the other advantages of modern high MP sensors.

    All the best

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •