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Thread: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

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    Super Duper
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    Statement from Leica on M Delivery




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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    hmmm, 2014, that's great, but that's like uh, next year. How about for this year, no hope? Will they give us an M V2, to kick off the new plant? Something for all of us that stick and wait for better delivery? :-) Food for thought.

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    Vapourware- is vapourware- irrespective of all the "viral marketing" strategies employed on forums like this....

    all very good for a laugh though - unless one is foolish enough to take forums seriously.

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    According to UPS tracking, my silver version will be delivered to me Thursday.

    Greg

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    It takes a long time to build these so the strap lugs aren't loose, I think is what they are saying.


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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    New plant in Wetzlar opening in 2014......hmmm.

    At least with the M240 announcement they said early 2013.

    2014, sounds kinda open ended

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Vapourware- is vapourware- irrespective of all the "viral marketing" strategies employed on forums like this....

    all very good for a laugh though - unless one is foolish enough to take forums seriously.
    Hi Peter, may I ask where you have your camera on preorder? Feel free to pm if you prefer.

    Cheers,
    Dan

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    Hi Peter, may I ask where you have your camera on preorder? Feel free to pm if you prefer.

    Cheers,
    Dan
    No problem - I buy stuff from the biggest dealer in Leica equipment in Australia and have done so for 15 years. Sometimes I buy from a dealer in the US. I am on no one's waiting list - and if I decided would likely be placed on the top of these so called waiting lists anyway.

    Fortunately I am in no hurry as I enjoy using my M9 and Monochrome for my rangefinder 'hit' and won't be buying into the CMOS chipped LeicaCaNikon until it is readily available and sorted and spare batteries and accessories are readily available - and the prices actually conform to suggested retail.

    This time will likely coincide with the early buyers beginning to sell off as they await the next iteration of the next best thing to eventually start threads called 'fun with' which they can enjoy - demonstrating no difference between the new iteration of a Leica or pretty much any other camera one can buy.

    Do I sound too cynical? Should i be more excited about a CMOS Leica than I currently feel? Is there something missing in the posted files so far that make me feel underwhelmed?

    All the best
    Pete

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    "It's funny that the most vocal critics of the M240 color and CMOS sensor are the ones who never used a M240...."

    A legitimate gripe, I guess, so long as you're equally amused by the many similarly situated people who rave about the camera.

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    maybe slow number of sensors from STM? can't be that difficult to assemble the cameras.

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Cynical? No. Misleading? Yes.

    PS: It's funny that the most vocal critics of the M240 color and CMOS sensor are the ones who never used a M240, and the most vocal whiners about delivery delays are the ones who did not order one nor plan to in the near future.
    I kinda of get the feeling you are having a go at me ?

    1. Leica have admitted that availability will be limited until the new Calendar year - a fact I pointed out in a previous thread based on my own knowledge of where Leica is at with their own production abilities. Are you disagreeing with what Leica is saying about their own production delays?

    2. My comment on being underwhelmed by the LeicaM240 files stands as my opinion based on my own eyes and my own extensive research using two different copies of the camera - as indicated in previous post - sure I'll be buying one - there is no hurry there is nothing special about the files - they are good enough - very similar to most cameras out there except you can stick M glass in front - handy because I have a lot of it.

    Have a nice day Mr.

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    No matter whether you love the M240 or not, it is easily apparent that it has not been the same hit as the M9 was (logically it couldn't be), and by now in the timeline the M9 order book was starting to settle down to supplying customers that weren't on the pre-order list. So there is something disingenuous in the Leica statement.

    Yes it is true you could say that the M240 is a more complicated camera, but equally electronic components tend to get simpler in their installation and more unitary in design. So if you factored that in slightly one way or another depending on your belief in modern assembly techniques and testing, it still doesn't really address the lack of cameras being supplied to a smaller customer base (compared with the M9).


    Steve

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Nope, I am not having a go at you. You are just one in a large group of people including the OP of this thread and many others on this forum and on leica user forum. It is a very legitimate observation mind you.
    Did you ever talk to a Leica Rep off the record? They are embarrassed by their inability to deliver the camera -- and in my view rightly so. Same for dealers. In the digital age, where cameras are still constantly improved (and in my view there is quite some room for improvement in the M 240), most rightly want to be able to buy a product when it is announced or shortly thereafter, not 18 months later.

    The funny thing is that those who managed to get the camera early are often the loudest to tell others to be be patient.

    And before you ask: I have none on order and (currently) no intention to order. So I personally don't give a s***, but I understand those who are frustrated.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I buy stuff from the biggest dealer in Leica equipment in Australia and have done so for 15 years
    *snip*...
    Fortunately I am in no hurry as I enjoy using my M9 and Monochrome for my rangefinder 'hit' and won't be buying into the CMOS chipped LeicaCaNikon until it is readily available and sorted and spare batteries and accessories are readily available - and the prices actually conform to suggested retail.
    ...
    So you aren't buying in Melbourne?
    As far as I am aware there is no retailer advertising/selling the new M above RRP in Australia.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Do I sound too cynical? Should i be more excited about a CMOS Leica than I currently feel? Is there something missing in the posted files so far that make me feel underwhelmed?

    All the best
    Pete
    Pete, it is interesting how negatively you feel about the camera and the files it produces yet you are willing to purchase one.

    As you have used one I am surprised you feel the CMOS sensor is such a step backward. I have made a simple preset in lightroom that makes the files look almost identical to the M9. Personal choice at the end of the day. One thing is for certain the M files are more flexible.

    What I can say is that it is almost unthinkable that there will be another CCD based M camera.
    I do hope you can eventually warm to the imaging characteristics of the new camera.

    I won't be able to purchase the camera until it is out of backorder, but I will still buy it.

    Cheers,
    Dan

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    I am really amazed at now a relatively simple Leica announcement can produce such passion and inflame the sensitivities.
    Please folks, lets keep it polite and to-the-point.
    Remember, conversation that would be appropriate at a dinner party.
    thanks
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 27th June 2013 at 09:41.

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    1.) new Leica Stores opening--all clamoring for inventory for stock and sales. These stores service high profile clients, so they have to be under pressure to deliver backlog. not to mention capital drain to launch the store fronts.
    2.) Vario X model ramp with a new production processes due to significant re-design
    3.) supplier challenges for both new cameras-lots of new parts
    4.) company dwarfed in resources compared to Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc.
    5.) ww economic improvements--more demand for high end products

    Seems like a ton of stuff all at once so no wonder there are issues. their memo is not a good sign. it implies the backlog will continue for sometime without identifying the real bottleneck issue. it might be awhile before we see M 240's sitting around in dealers stock.

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    Personally, I try to temper my excitement by the fact that first, there aren't any around, and secondly, I need to put it in budget after several spending sprees lately, I'm out for a while. Third, I try not to really evaluate to closely right now, what's the point of getting excited about something I can't get anyway? This is something I have had to learn to work on, and I have gotten better at turning my eye away from these things, and just saying ahh, someday maybe and enjoy what I have at this point in time.

    fulton pics, well, this is partly right, but you know inventory has improved for a lot of lenses. It's the camera bodies that seem to be most backlogged now. I think they have a really limited production like for camera bodies probably, and that hasn't really changed. They got better with the M9 eventually, or supply caught up with demand, I am not sure which. Maybe the same will happen here eventually, but as you say, and as they say, it may well be next year, and well into next year at that!
    /M-TP240/MM+Luxious trinity(24:35:50) + 75 2.0 APO ASPH Cron + Nikon D3X/D700, 58 1.2 noct, 28 1.4d,200VR + Zeiss 35/50/100 + 135mm 2.0 DC, 17-35/24-70/70-200VRII, Einstein studio...

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    There are two factors regarding lens availability: (a) Leica increased prices in January 2012 (and again since then) and (b) the Chinese economy is much slower now, so demand is much less. The price buildup back in 2010-2011 of Leica glass prices was due to demand from China (one could pay US retail for a 35 FLE and make a couple of grand flipping it on eBay, and many people did exactly that.)

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    That makes a lot of sense actually. no wonder there were no lenses available hardly then. I know because I looked. I wound up giving up at the time. Then one day this year, I could have bought a 35 and 50 lux in the same day, I said man! I wound up going with a used 50 lux though, I had a hard time coughing up 9K that day. cough. heck, I could have bought a Noctilux a time or two if I had the funds in place this year...

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    There are two factors regarding lens availability: (a) Leica increased prices in January 2012 (and again since then) and (b) the Chinese economy is much slower now
    I think there is also (c) Leica produce substantially more lenses (I believe 3x) than they did during 2011.

    Here in the UK it is like 2005 in terms of stock availability. The only lens impossible to buy from stock is the 50 APO (the Noctilux is also thin on the ground but, retailing now for RRP GBP 8,000, I suspect dealers are less keen on stocking this lens in a soft market). In fact, I have noticed one provincial dealer I have bought from many times sells most of the lens range (including the once 'hot' 35 FLE) at a substantial discount to official RRP. I also notice that, unlike two years ago, that dealer has virtually every lens in stock.

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    Re: Statement from Leica on M Delivery

    I think you are all forgetting that the shortage of lenses at around the time the M9 was introduced was caused by photographers changing their lens requirements from a cropped sensor camera in the M8 to full frame in the M9. There was a sudden rush for 'real' 50mm lenses such as the Summilux rather than 35mm stand-ins, and a rush for 'real' 28mm Summicron's rather than the 21mm equivalent, as well as new Leica owners needing all the regular lenses like the 35mm etc.

    Once this was dealt with, and it took a long time, stocks of lenses recovered. And I'm sure Leica anticipated another rush from new customers with the introduction of the M, hence the high levels in readiness at dealers. The problem is the rush hasn't come because the cameras haven't come. My local Premier Dealer has had 4 M bodies from Leica as of yesterday, and because all Dealers are allocated fairly they think there can be no more than 50 M's in the UK. And people are wandering away and cancelling their names on the list, something unheard of with the M9, where the backlog of pre-orders was cleared in around ten weeks.

    Steve
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