Trouble with Leica Flagship Summicron?

[thrice]

Sorry guys, couldn't test. We had a dealer buy our demo 50 APO
We will probably put another one into demo in August.

My $6300+ Schneider 35/5.6 APO-Digitar has a far less complex optical/mechanical design yet it flares oddly in difficult situations.

Those crazy ghosts are quite certainly because of reflections back & forth off the sensor.
It will be interesting to hear whether these lenses sent to Germany come back with the issue 'repaired' or if it is simply a byproduct of the optical design, perhaps in conjunction with a filter or without the integrated hood extended?

 

[Double Negative]

I doubt that price will overcome physics.

Yes, Mr. Spock would be proud... But I don't think anyone's expecting the lens to overcome physics, steep price or not.

The primary symptom of the flaring isn't so much the examples from 'Lloyd posted above as much as it is "central veiling flare." But alas, he's got those samples stashed behind the paywall...

 

[Vivek]

Lloyd and LUF are the same. Images on both sites are not obviously visible.
Hence both have no value in getting quoted for a discussion here.

I personally think the lens is a bargain at 7k if one has the money for it.

 

[Bob]

Perhaps a new line of lenses "Die optische Spaß"?
Every lens maker I know is able to have a bad sample from time to time or a design with particular quirks in usage.
-bob

 

[Double Negative]

Well, since everyone already has all the answers - I'm done here. Have fun.

 

[NB23]

You guys are too funny. I said elsewhere and I'll say it here: This is not "Leica's tour de force" and "Holy grail lens". It's simply a new design and its pricing sets the bar for the next upcoming Leica lenses.

We can expect the next Summiluxes to be in the 10K$ range, the next Crons in the 6-7K$ range and that's it.

Why everyone expects "perfection" is beyond me. Some people just don't realize what Leica is about. The whole (and only) magic about Leica is the make-believe part. I am a Leica user for a long time now, I own all their best lenses. But I am not stupid either. I fully realize just how good the Nikkor 50 f1.8D is. In a blind test, it easily rivals any apo asph BS out there.

 

[250swb]

Leica lenses haven't glowed in a long time, too long. Perfection has taken away character with the latest offerings and oh how I wish they would do something that intentionally has a lens signature, but perhaps not in the same way as the 50mm APO.

That other Leica forum has been discussing the problems since early July without any updates or news to speak of. I would hope that next time the computer churns out a new design they send the office junior out with it for a weekend testing how normal people use it. Because I think this is the problem, they give pre-production lenses to competent photographers who want to impress Leica with their output, when we all know that over time, in the real world, even the best encounter less than perfect conditions sooner or later. So they should go the other way, not give them to anybody with any sense or knowledge of photography, and see how the results turn out with pictures of grandma on the beach.

Steve

 

[Double Negative]

"Hear me now, believe me later." - Hanz und Franz

"The new Leica APO-Summicron-M 50 mm f/2 ASPH. is the first lens ever to fully exploit the capabilities of modern high-resolution camera systems without any compromises. This lens is a new milestone in the history of optical design that achieves previously unattainable values in all technical performance characteristics. "

 

[Double Negative]

Though granted, it's a 16 year old design...

 

[Taylor Sherman]

I get ray-gun flares from bright in-frame sources using my 21SEM and 28/2.8 ASPH on the Nex-7. The former has a perfectly flat rear element and the latter is not very convex. Seems to me it's got to do with the coatings on both the lens and the sensor. And that there's not much you can do to overcome it except make your sensor as non-reflective as possibe.

 

[NB23]

"Hear me now, believe me later." - Hanz und Franz

"The new Leica APO-Summicron-M 50 mm f/2 ASPH. is the first lens ever to fully exploit the capabilities of modern high-resolution camera systems without any compromises. This lens is a new milestone in the history of optical design that achieves previously unattainable values in all technical performance characteristics. "

Marketing, what else.

 

[thrice]

I get ray-gun flares from bright in-frame sources using my 21SEM and 28/2.8 ASPH on the Nex-7. The former has a perfectly flat rear element and the latter is not very convex. Seems to me it's got to do with the coatings on both the lens and the sensor. And that there's not much you can do to overcome it except make your sensor as non-reflective as possibe.

That is odd, I get nothing by the way of flare with my 21 SEM, can you post an example? Is your adapter maybe to blame?

 

[Taylor Sherman]

That is odd, I get nothing by the way of flare with my 21 SEM, can you post an example? Is your adapter maybe to blame?

Hmm; I can't find what I was thinking of, there's a little bit of it in this picture:

DSC07953.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

The strongest one IIRC was with the 28, and I didn't upload that so I'll have to look for it tonight. I definitely remember seeing 3 or 4 ghosts next to a bunch of lights (think it was from a chandelier) in a picture.

It could? be the adapter. Not sure how the light angles would need to be for that though.

 

[thrice]

Ah, I've never used the 21SEM on a Sony sensor but given then number of layers with air-gaps in their sensor package I am not too surprised that you are seeing ghosts. Are you using a UV filter for those shots?

Have a look here all taken with the 21 SEM on M240. A few have bright light sources and I see no ghosts. I will try and do a controlled test for you.

 

[Taylor Sherman]

Yeah, I see the ghosts with other lenses now too, now that I look for it. Everything from the Elmar 135 to the Touit 12. I think it's reflections within the sensor toppings. Bleh, oh well. Probably the 5N, 5R, and 6 are better about this, being newer designs. Here's hoping the FF nex will be too. . .

 

[wattsy]

isn't so much the examples from 'Lloyd posted above as much as it is "central veiling flare." But alas, he's got those samples stashed behind the paywall...

Then why not do some primary research? Rather than leech off of the work and findings of others for your "blog", get hold of a copy of the lens and test for the veiling flare yourself.

 

[jonoslack]

Avoid Specular sources in or just off the frame.
-bob

HI Bob
quite agree and . . .

Avoid Speculation sources in, or just off the frame

Oh, and those bearing grudges as well. :angel:

 

[jonoslack]

You guys are too funny. I said elsewhere and I'll say it here: This is not "Leica's tour de force" and "Holy grail lens". It's simply a new design and its pricing sets the bar for the next upcoming Leica lenses.

We can expect the next Summiluxes to be in the 10K$ range, the next Crons in the 6-7K$ range and that's it.

HI There - actually, no - this really is a 'one off' (of course there may be other 'one offs' later). But I really don't think that it's a new pricing step for future lenses.

Why everyone expects "perfection" is beyond me. Some people just don't realize what Leica is about.

Quite

 

[jaapv]

I always thought the only flarefree lens was a pinhole....

 

[Chuck Jones]

I always thought the only flarefree lens was a pinhole....

And then only if you forgot to load the film.

Show me a "flair free" lens, and I will show you a lens with the lens cap still in place!