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Lens advice for mixed M8/35mm outfit or upgrade to M9

asiafish

Member
35mm has long been my favorite focal length followed by 90mm, and while I generally stay between 35mm and 90mm, I rarely shoot wider or longer.

I am new to rangefinders and recently dumped my DSLR kit and am in the process of dumping my Sony NEX kit for Leica M. I currently have both M8.2 and M6 bodies and a 35mm Summarit, 50mm Summicron and 90mm Tele-Elmarit. For film or full frame I consider this the perfect outfit as all three lenses are very small, but sharp and fast enough.

Problem is the M8.2 isn't full frame. I bought it because I didn't want to drop the $4000 or so for a used M9 before I knew if rangefinders really were for me, and now that I know I like the feel (and the results), I have a bit of a conundrum.

I am extremely happy with the image quality from the M8.2 and have little or no use for higher ISO than 640. I shoot 90% black and white and will occasionally print 11X14, but usually its 5X7 and 8X10, so the 10MP files are already overkill and I would have little or no benefit from 18. The only problem is that I can't go wide enough, and am missing my sweet-spot 90mm focal length.

It would be about the same price to sell the M8.2 and buy an M9 as it would to buy a 24mm Elmar Asph or 28mm Elmarit Asph, and in the case of the 28 I'd probably have almost enough leftover to get a 75mm Summarit.

Does anyone here have experience with the 24 Elmar and 28 Elmarit on the M8? The added benefit would be that I would now have more wide options on film and of course lenses are always a better investment than bodies. The downside is that I could not carry a small 3 lens kit for both formats unless I pick a primary format. I'm inclined to the 28mm simply because the 24mm frame lines are too large in the M8.2 viewfinder.

24mm comes out equivalent to 32mm and 28mm equivalent to 37mm. Any current or former M8 shooters have an opinion on which feels closer to a 35mm lens on full frame?

Thanks in advance. This Leica bug sure is expensive, so I want to do this right.
 

JohnBrew

Active member
Yes, I've a 24 Elmar and have used it on both M8.2 and M9-P. Frankly I prefer it on the M8.2. Never thought I would but I'm getting some color shift on the edges of the FF camera (which is easily taken care of in PP or by stopping down) and I really like the lens equivalent of 32mm on the M8.2. As always YMMV.
When I had an M8 I used a 35 Cron ASPH and thought the combo was awesome.
Personally the more I shoot the M9-P the more I like the M8.2 files.
 

asiafish

Member
Did you ever try the 28 Elmarit or Summicron? I think I will like the 24 focal length better on the M8.2 especially as I already have the 35 Summarit, but that 28 Elmarit is just SOOOOOOO tiny and light.
 

Jeff S

New member
I think you'll find that your M8.2 is better for b/w than an M9. I have two of the former, and after testing, saw no reason to get the M9. Much of my rationale paralleled yours, e.g., not huge print size, not extreme ISO, etc. You might consider renting an M9 to help make your own assessment.

Beyond that, I also like that the M8.2 provides features that a standard M9 does not, including a sapphire screen, 2m frame lines, top LCD, black chrome finish (with black dot on black versions) and better covering. Plus, there is no concern about SD card issues, red edge, etc. Also, while some complain about the use of UV/IR filters on the M8.2, my tests and others show that even the M9 benefits in many circumstances from external filters, as the internal filtration is not as effective.

I love the 28 Summicron on the M8.2. It serves to replace the 35mm FOV (roughly) I got with my film Ms. The Elmarit of course is smaller, and a bit more contrasty, although PP can do a lot these days to modify renderings. You can also rent these to test. Lenses are a personal matter, and I've maintained the trio of 28, 35 and 50 for decades, regardless of 'full frame' or crop. I owned a 75 Summicron for a time, but sold it when I failed to get along with the 75 frame lines.

While my M8.2s serve me well, and despite what I say above, I will likely add the new M to my took kit. This has nothing to do with full frame; rather, I'm looking forward to weather sealing, longer battery life, quiet shutter (no motor re-cock buzz), improved RF focusing, faster processor and use of live view to help determine if camera and/or lens are mis-calibrated. The new focus options may also prompt the purchase of a 90 lens, probably the Macro-Elmar, which is tiny and a stellar performer as a short tele.

Jeff
 

asiafish

Member
Thanks for the words of wisdom. I think I'm going to stick to the M8.2 for now, and add the 28 Elmarit. The 28 and 50 will make a great 2 lens travel kit.
 

Jeff S

New member
I appreciate the comment, but the wisdom part comes down to doing what's right for you, not what worked for me. I got there by testing (if there's any 'wisdom' involved, that's it), not by following others' practices, although sharing can help prompt questions and issues.

No matter what you decide, my suggestion is to forget about gear for a good while and just use whatever you decide to get; all the options you're considering are plenty good enough to help produce good work.

Personally, I find much greater improvement in my prints from enhancements to the PP end of the workflow...software, printer, papers, inks, profiles, techniques, etc... than from changes to the camera or lens.

Jeff
 

JohnBrew

Active member
I had a 28 Elmarit on my film M's but never did care for it. Somehow it never seemed to be the right focal length for the situation. Perhaps I didn't try hard enough.
 

Gbealnz

Member
When I had an M8, I almost exclusively used the 28, an older one, and loved it. B&W especially, but additionally, I/R, so simple.
But I can perhaps see the rationale for the 24 and 50, if you wanted to concentrate on the two lens way.
I sold the M8 to venture into the M9, but wished I'd stayed where I was actually, the M8 is a very fine camera.
Gary
 

asiafish

Member
I appreciate the comment, but the wisdom part comes down to doing what's right for you, not what worked for me. I got there by testing (if there's any 'wisdom' involved, that's it), not by following others' practices, although sharing can help prompt questions and issues.

No matter what you decide, my suggestion is to forget about gear for a good while and just use whatever you decide to get; all the options you're considering are plenty good enough to help produce good work.

Personally, I find much greater improvement in my prints from enhancements to the PP end of the workflow...software, printer, papers, inks, profiles, techniques, etc... than from changes to the camera or lens.

Jeff
I actually really hate the computer end of the equation as I work in front of one all day as an attorney. I try to get the very best raw file I can that requires the least amount of PP.

For printing I just go to my local photo shop, where I also have my film scanned. I know I could take a lot more control if I learned PP, but honestly I've been delighted with almost straight BW conversions from DNG in Lightroom from M8 files. I capture with DNG+JPEG (for BW review)and honestly, even the JPEGs look FANTASTIC, though the DNGs are slightly better and give me the option of making a color image when desired.
 

asiafish

Member
Thanks to all. I got an offer for an exceptional price on the 28 so I'll start there. I've always been a three lens guy (35, 50, 90 in the R series).

I will stick with the M8.2 and 28, 35, 50 for three lens kit. Eventually I'll probably settle into the 28 or 35 for most of my shooting.
 

Seascape

New member
I have the 24 Elmarit ASPH, and it is a wonderful match for the M8.

The rangefinder frames do match the 24, and I usually shoot with a 2 lens kit of the 24 and 50 with the M8.

If I am shooting with just one lens, I go with the 28 Elmarit Ver. IV, a truly excellent and underrated lens.

The 24 FOV on the M8 is very nice, especially in cities when sometimes a slightly wider FOV is helpful without getting into an extreme wide angle look.

The 32mm equivalent FOV is very attractive.
 

asiafish

Member
I have the 24 Elmarit ASPH, and it is a wonderful match for the M8.

The rangefinder frames do match the 24, and I usually shoot with a 2 lens kit of the 24 and 50 with the M8.

If I am shooting with just one lens, I go with the 28 Elmarit Ver. IV, a truly excellent and underrated lens.

The 24 FOV on the M8 is very nice, especially in cities when sometimes a slightly wider FOV is helpful without getting into an extreme wide angle look.

The 32mm equivalent FOV is very attractive.
That was the big decision, 32mm FOV or 37mm FOV. I ended up buying the 28 Elmarit ASPH from a forum member here earlier today and may look into an older 24 or 21 next year before my annual trip to Asia.

Since I've often gone between 35mm and 50mm FOV, I figured I'd err on the longer side of 35mm in case I decide to go with just one lens. The 28 ASPH is also just so small and light. I got a good enough price on it that if I don't like it, it will be easy to resell without any loss. That it is also useable without an auxiliary viewfinder on my M6 is just a bonus.
 

Gbealnz

Member
Good decision. Now find an I/R filter and give that a try, you will be surprised how easy the M8 does I/R.
Gary
 

asiafish

Member
Already ordered an IR filter. Should have it in about a week. Nice thing with this kit is that all four of my lenses take the same 39mm filters, and all four are very small and light.
 

Gbealnz

Member
I found it difficult to find an I/R in 39mm, and all but self-fabricated one. In the end though the M28 I had ran (I think) 46mm or 49mm filters, and these were simple enough to find.
Hand-held was simple enough, custom W/B IIRC.
Gary
 
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Amin

Active member
24mm comes out equivalent to 32mm and 28mm equivalent to 37mm. Any current or former M8 shooters have an opinion on which feels closer to a 35mm lens on full frame?
I now use a Zeiss 35 on an M9, but I previously used a Voigtlander 28/2.0 Ultron-M on an M8 and in side by side shooting with a 35 Summilux FLE on M9, the angle of view was close enough to be the same as far as I was concerned.
 

asiafish

Member
I now use a Zeiss 35 on an M9, but I previously used a Voigtlander 28/2.0 Ultron-M on an M8 and in side by side shooting with a 35 Summilux FLE on M9, the angle of view was close enough to be the same as far as I was concerned.
I'm very excited to start shooting with the 28.
 
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