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New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

Stuart Richardson

Active member
I know the 45mm lens was just announced, but I am a bit underwhelmed so far. It seems rather large and slow compared to what I had hoped for. There is no MTF data yet for the 45mm, but I am wondering what is the rationale behind this lens...it is not particularly fast (I know a lot of people who were hoping for a faster reportage style lens), it is not small or light, and it is certainly not cheap (1350 dollars more than the 70mm S). From what I can surmise, it looks like the zoom would do 90% of what the 45mm will do, while also filling all the other focal lengths in its range as well.

From what I can find (DPReview seems to have the most specs), the 45mm is 1030g without a central shutter and 163mm long with the hood.
By comparison, the 30-90mm zoom is 1275g and 144mm long with the hood. The zoom is a little wider and heavier, but the 45mm is longer.

The 45mm is a tick slower than either the 35mm or 75mm around it at 2.8, while the 30-90mm is probably around f/4 at this point, so just a stop slower than the 45mm. It seems the zoom's distortion reaches neutral around 45mm as well.

Can anyone who has used the 30-90 comment on its performance at this range? It seems like it might be the better buy for me at least. I don't care about or need a central shutter, and at least at the moment, it does not really appear like the 45mm offers much over the zoom. How much better can the performance be? From what I have gathered about the zoom, it is a pretty amazing performer...

Bleh, so much for a compact, fast wide angle for the S system....I had really hoped it would at least be the same size and speed as the 70mm...
 

ddanois

Member
Stuart,

I can certainly identify with your sentiments. I know others that use the 30-90 and swear by the quality. I have used it during a workshop as well so I get it. However, the primes deliver very refined detail in the extreme corners and this is where I think the zoom falls down slightly (admittedly, that's not saying much given how good the zoom performs).

I'm interested to see how the 45 behaves in the extreme corners wide open. The current S camera is really dependent on fast glass when shooting handheld or using available light so it will be interesting to see the difference between this prime and the zoom. In my experience, the difference between using f2.8 and f4.0 on the S could mean quite a jump in ISO to get the same shutter speed which means potentially harsh noise.

I agree that the size and weight of the 45 does not give us a 35 Summilux equivalent on the S but it should prove very useful.

If the next generation of the S has a CMOS sensor then all bets are off...
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Hi Stuart,
some weeks ago I had heard a rumor about a relativly compact 45mm. So I am with you and have some disappointment about the size/speed/price of the 45mm.
I wonder why the 45mm with f2.8 is as big as the 35 at f2.5. (I assume Leica maybe wanted to use the same housing?).
I like the 70 so much that 45mm is too close for me in regards to focal length. Had the 45 been smaller then size could have convinced me. But at the moment I find 35 and 70 more useful for my needs.
I had a 30-90 in my hands but at this time found it a little too heavy for my taste and was afraid if I would be fine with the speed (I would be fine in good light but as soon as clouds appear or I go indoors I often use f2.5 -4.0 range of my primes.) Thats why I skipped the zoom.
I now have 30,35 (plan is to keep just one of those 2),70,120 and 180.
For me 70 and 35 are my most use lenses.
I still sometimes dream about the zoom, it would solve my decision between 30 and 35, because I could probably get rid of both.
But in the end I think I am better served with the primes at the moment
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Thanks guys! Thank you for the perspective on the 30-90 ddanois...I have not had a chance to use it, and it is not available in my country, so I have to draw my conclusions based on others' testimony and from the MTF information available on the web. Even then, that is a rather inexact and incomplete characterization of a lens. There is a lot more going on than just MTF!

Still, I am mostly using the S for either landscape work or studio work, and while I had hoped for a compact, high-quality prime for use in a lighter kit or for travel, it seems to me that the 30-90 would be a better fit for me. I do shoot handheld a lot with the S2, but I usually have a tripod around too. I can see a kit consisting of the 30-90 and the 120 would cover 95% of the shots I take. I currently have the 35, 70, 120 and 180, and the 70 and 120 are the most used. Still, the 35 is indispensable when I need a wide angle. A moderate wide angle lens is my most used on every other format I shoot with, so I was very much looking forward to a solid entry in this range for the S series...so far, not so impressed with the 45mm... The 180, while a very good lens, is not as useful to me as I had hoped. At least not yet...if I had to do it over, I would have not purchased it, and just got the zoom. Now that I have it, however, I am hesitant to take the loss to sell it...I find that selling Leica lenses is seldom a wise decision. They only tend to go up in price, and they are great to have around when you need them!

I will wait for the MTF and some impressions on the 45mm before I make any decisions...
 

Paratom

Well-known member
As far as I know Georg (GMB) has a 30-90 and likes it a lot. Maybe you might want to contact him about his experiences with the lens.
 

atanabe

Member
Stuart,
I think the CS is the reason for the length. As it is offered with and without CS, the space reserved for the CS will most definitely keep the lenses with a long, wide barrel.

-Al
 

RVB

Member
I suspect Leica Sacrificed some speed for quality,I ordered one and expect it in 12 weeks,the Zoom is tempting,but I have a HC 35-90 which also has leaf shutters and is more than good enough.

Stuart I think you would regret selling any of your S glass,especially when you look at the way high quality lenses are moving up in price,
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Yes, it seems the sacrifice of speed for quality and size for leaf-shutters must be at play here. Don't worry RVB! Now that I have it, I will not likely get rid of it. I still have almost all the Leica lenses I have bought, unless I sold them to buy a more modern version (for example, trading the Leica R glass for the S system). I think every time I did sell Leica lenses, I made money on it. Often a LOT of money. I got in at the right time...early 2000s. After digital, but before Leica digital.

In any case, I don't need to make any moves at the moment, so I will likely wait a bit. The kit I have now covers everything I need...I can get away with cropping from the 35mm or stepping back with the 70mm for the moment, but eventually I would like to fill that gap, seeing as I am mostly a "normal" range photographer. I was really surprised how much emphasis Leica placed on the very wide angles actually...why have a 24, 30 and 35 before the 45? I would have thought more people would be interested in a 45 than 24 or 30, but clearly that is not the case! I wonder if it is the Asian and amateur markets that are driving it.

Anyway, I have not been posting my photos recently, so here are a few from the last few weeks. Cold summer transitioned into early fall and winter...


 

RVB

Member
I like those snaps Stuart,nice atmosphere ,especially the first two..I wonder if Leica invested in wide angles to begin with in order to exploit a weakness in the other medium format companies lens range,I dont shoot phase but AFAIK their wide angles weren't as good as some would like and hassy only had the 28 up until recently and the 35mm is not as attractive as the 28 (or 24?)
 
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D&A

Well-known member
I like those snaps Stuart,nice atmosphere ,especially the first two..I wonder if Leica invested in wide angles to begin with in order to exploit in the other medium format companies,I dont shoot phase but AFAIK their wide angles weren't as good as some would like and hassy only had the 28 up until recently and the 35mm is not as attractive as the 28 (or 24?)
That's my feeling too. Wide angle lenses in medium format photography, especially for use on digital bodies has always been the weak spot in terms of performance in my opinion. That's one of the reason I believe Pentax went all out with their new 25mm 645 lens (19mm on the 645D). Interestingly Pentax's own 45mm 645 lens is the weak spot in their wide angle lens line-up, in terms of optical performance. Their 35mm is excellent as is their 45-85mm zoom (although slow at f3.5-f4.5). It's especially strong on the wider end, but the fixed 45mm lens (which is 35mm on the 645D) is often passed over. A shame as that focal length on both the Leica S and 645D bodies translates into a traditional and very useful 35mm lens. For that focal length, most opt for the much bigger and heavier zoom lens.

Dave (D&A)
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Of course, that makes a lot of sense! It's interesting...I have been most impressed by the 35mm and 120mm S lenses, with the 70mm and 180mm being a bit lower in performance to my eye (at least when I take into account their focal lengths...the 180 is sharper than the 35mm, for example). The 70mm is my most used focal length because of the angle of view and the size of the lens, yet it seems to be the weakest S lens. I have had two copies, and both have an odd habit of being sharp in the center at infinity, but with the sharpness plane extending in a curve...so the edges are sharp at 20m-30m, but soft at infinity. I am not sure if this is a quirk in the lens design, or of the way the S focuses. It does not happen all the time, but it does happen a lot, and only with the 70mm. I only say this as the 70 is the only S lens I have any real criticism of, and yet it should be the centerpiece of the whole system. It seems the 45mm might also be a bit of an afterthought (perhaps too strong of a word) when compared to the wide angles, at least in terms of speed and size etc. I just wish Leica would put the same time and energy into developing the normal lenses as they seem to do with the exotic ones. Perhaps they do? But the selection does not seem to suggest that...I would be curious to hear some frank words on this from the S design team, but I imagine they would not really be free to discuss this kind of thing.
 

rsmphoto

Member
Yes, I own the 30-90 and have used it on every shoot since taking delivery over 6 months ago. It's my workhorse lens for what I do (architecture) inside and out. Unequivocally, the best zoom I've ever used. Truly impressive performance center to edge. The only reasons I might find to own a fixed S lens in this range is if I needed to shoot wide open and need shallower depth of field, or needed a leaf shutter.
 

RVB

Member
Now if Leica could pull off a Summicron, that'd be something.
I think they need to produce a faster portrait lens,100-120mm f2,I bought the CS120 to use for portraits but the focus hunting makes it too slow,if they even added a focus range limiter it would have helped but a dedicated f2 portrait lens would be sweet..
 

RVB

Member
Yes, I own the 30-90 and have used it on every shoot since taking delivery over 6 months ago. It's my workhorse lens for what I do (architecture) inside and out. Unequivocally, the best zoom I've ever used. Truly impressive performance center to edge. The only reasons I might find to own a fixed S lens in this range is if I needed to shoot wide open and need shallower depth of field, or needed a leaf shutter.
I would like to try one out,or compare it against the HCD 35-90 which is also very good(and has leaf shutters)
 

D&A

Well-known member
I think they need to produce a faster portrait lens,100-120mm f2,I bought the CS120 to use for portraits but the focus hunting makes it too slow,if they even added a focus range limiter it would have helped but a dedicated f2 portrait lens would be sweet..
That was the issue I had with the CS 120mm when I tried out both the Lieca S2 and S in the studio. It would more times than not hunt and the lighting was exceptionally adequate for autofocusing. At the time I immediately thought how useful a focus limiter would be on this lens, especially that it's also used for close up work. Whether this excessive hunting is due to the lens, the body or a combination of these particular two components of the system, its hard to say. Optically though the lens leaves little to be desired.

Dave (D&A)
 

rsmphoto

Member
I would like to try one out,or compare it against the HCD 35-90 which is also very good(and has leaf shutters)
I know the 35-90 is indeed also very good, but for me, the added wide angle field of view from 35 to 30mm makes a big difference. All I need is a 24mm and I'm pretty much set. Negates the need for a 28mm.
 

RVB

Member
I know the 35-90 is indeed also very good, but for me, the added wide angle field of view from 35 to 30mm makes a big difference. All I need is a 24mm and I'm pretty much set. Negates the need for a 28mm.
I have the S24mm. it's fantastic.. very expensive but amazing
 
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