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Thread: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

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    New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    I know the 45mm lens was just announced, but I am a bit underwhelmed so far. It seems rather large and slow compared to what I had hoped for. There is no MTF data yet for the 45mm, but I am wondering what is the rationale behind this lens...it is not particularly fast (I know a lot of people who were hoping for a faster reportage style lens), it is not small or light, and it is certainly not cheap (1350 dollars more than the 70mm S). From what I can surmise, it looks like the zoom would do 90% of what the 45mm will do, while also filling all the other focal lengths in its range as well.

    From what I can find (DPReview seems to have the most specs), the 45mm is 1030g without a central shutter and 163mm long with the hood.
    By comparison, the 30-90mm zoom is 1275g and 144mm long with the hood. The zoom is a little wider and heavier, but the 45mm is longer.

    The 45mm is a tick slower than either the 35mm or 75mm around it at 2.8, while the 30-90mm is probably around f/4 at this point, so just a stop slower than the 45mm. It seems the zoom's distortion reaches neutral around 45mm as well.

    Can anyone who has used the 30-90 comment on its performance at this range? It seems like it might be the better buy for me at least. I don't care about or need a central shutter, and at least at the moment, it does not really appear like the 45mm offers much over the zoom. How much better can the performance be? From what I have gathered about the zoom, it is a pretty amazing performer...

    Bleh, so much for a compact, fast wide angle for the S system....I had really hoped it would at least be the same size and speed as the 70mm...
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Stuart,

    I can certainly identify with your sentiments. I know others that use the 30-90 and swear by the quality. I have used it during a workshop as well so I get it. However, the primes deliver very refined detail in the extreme corners and this is where I think the zoom falls down slightly (admittedly, that's not saying much given how good the zoom performs).

    I'm interested to see how the 45 behaves in the extreme corners wide open. The current S camera is really dependent on fast glass when shooting handheld or using available light so it will be interesting to see the difference between this prime and the zoom. In my experience, the difference between using f2.8 and f4.0 on the S could mean quite a jump in ISO to get the same shutter speed which means potentially harsh noise.

    I agree that the size and weight of the 45 does not give us a 35 Summilux equivalent on the S but it should prove very useful.

    If the next generation of the S has a CMOS sensor then all bets are off...

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Hi Stuart,
    some weeks ago I had heard a rumor about a relativly compact 45mm. So I am with you and have some disappointment about the size/speed/price of the 45mm.
    I wonder why the 45mm with f2.8 is as big as the 35 at f2.5. (I assume Leica maybe wanted to use the same housing?).
    I like the 70 so much that 45mm is too close for me in regards to focal length. Had the 45 been smaller then size could have convinced me. But at the moment I find 35 and 70 more useful for my needs.
    I had a 30-90 in my hands but at this time found it a little too heavy for my taste and was afraid if I would be fine with the speed (I would be fine in good light but as soon as clouds appear or I go indoors I often use f2.5 -4.0 range of my primes.) Thats why I skipped the zoom.
    I now have 30,35 (plan is to keep just one of those 2),70,120 and 180.
    For me 70 and 35 are my most use lenses.
    I still sometimes dream about the zoom, it would solve my decision between 30 and 35, because I could probably get rid of both.
    But in the end I think I am better served with the primes at the moment

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Thanks guys! Thank you for the perspective on the 30-90 ddanois...I have not had a chance to use it, and it is not available in my country, so I have to draw my conclusions based on others' testimony and from the MTF information available on the web. Even then, that is a rather inexact and incomplete characterization of a lens. There is a lot more going on than just MTF!

    Still, I am mostly using the S for either landscape work or studio work, and while I had hoped for a compact, high-quality prime for use in a lighter kit or for travel, it seems to me that the 30-90 would be a better fit for me. I do shoot handheld a lot with the S2, but I usually have a tripod around too. I can see a kit consisting of the 30-90 and the 120 would cover 95% of the shots I take. I currently have the 35, 70, 120 and 180, and the 70 and 120 are the most used. Still, the 35 is indispensable when I need a wide angle. A moderate wide angle lens is my most used on every other format I shoot with, so I was very much looking forward to a solid entry in this range for the S series...so far, not so impressed with the 45mm... The 180, while a very good lens, is not as useful to me as I had hoped. At least not yet...if I had to do it over, I would have not purchased it, and just got the zoom. Now that I have it, however, I am hesitant to take the loss to sell it...I find that selling Leica lenses is seldom a wise decision. They only tend to go up in price, and they are great to have around when you need them!

    I will wait for the MTF and some impressions on the 45mm before I make any decisions...
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    There is no MTF data yet for the 45mm

    In the German section there is:

    http://www.s.leica-camera.com/conten...marit_45er.pdf

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Danke! I will check it out tomorrow morning...looks pretty good!
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    As far as I know Georg (GMB) has a 30-90 and likes it a lot. Maybe you might want to contact him about his experiences with the lens.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Stuart,
    I think the CS is the reason for the length. As it is offered with and without CS, the space reserved for the CS will most definitely keep the lenses with a long, wide barrel.

    -Al
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    I suspect Leica Sacrificed some speed for quality,I ordered one and expect it in 12 weeks,the Zoom is tempting,but I have a HC 35-90 which also has leaf shutters and is more than good enough.

    Stuart I think you would regret selling any of your S glass,especially when you look at the way high quality lenses are moving up in price,
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Yes, it seems the sacrifice of speed for quality and size for leaf-shutters must be at play here. Don't worry RVB! Now that I have it, I will not likely get rid of it. I still have almost all the Leica lenses I have bought, unless I sold them to buy a more modern version (for example, trading the Leica R glass for the S system). I think every time I did sell Leica lenses, I made money on it. Often a LOT of money. I got in at the right time...early 2000s. After digital, but before Leica digital.

    In any case, I don't need to make any moves at the moment, so I will likely wait a bit. The kit I have now covers everything I need...I can get away with cropping from the 35mm or stepping back with the 70mm for the moment, but eventually I would like to fill that gap, seeing as I am mostly a "normal" range photographer. I was really surprised how much emphasis Leica placed on the very wide angles actually...why have a 24, 30 and 35 before the 45? I would have thought more people would be interested in a 45 than 24 or 30, but clearly that is not the case! I wonder if it is the Asian and amateur markets that are driving it.

    Anyway, I have not been posting my photos recently, so here are a few from the last few weeks. Cold summer transitioned into early fall and winter...


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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    I like those snaps Stuart,nice atmosphere ,especially the first two..I wonder if Leica invested in wide angles to begin with in order to exploit a weakness in the other medium format companies lens range,I dont shoot phase but AFAIK their wide angles weren't as good as some would like and hassy only had the 28 up until recently and the 35mm is not as attractive as the 28 (or 24?)
    Last edited by RVB; 9th October 2013 at 07:43.
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    I like those snaps Stuart,nice atmosphere ,especially the first two..I wonder if Leica invested in wide angles to begin with in order to exploit in the other medium format companies,I dont shoot phase but AFAIK their wide angles weren't as good as some would like and hassy only had the 28 up until recently and the 35mm is not as attractive as the 28 (or 24?)
    That's my feeling too. Wide angle lenses in medium format photography, especially for use on digital bodies has always been the weak spot in terms of performance in my opinion. That's one of the reason I believe Pentax went all out with their new 25mm 645 lens (19mm on the 645D). Interestingly Pentax's own 45mm 645 lens is the weak spot in their wide angle lens line-up, in terms of optical performance. Their 35mm is excellent as is their 45-85mm zoom (although slow at f3.5-f4.5). It's especially strong on the wider end, but the fixed 45mm lens (which is 35mm on the 645D) is often passed over. A shame as that focal length on both the Leica S and 645D bodies translates into a traditional and very useful 35mm lens. For that focal length, most opt for the much bigger and heavier zoom lens.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Of course, that makes a lot of sense! It's interesting...I have been most impressed by the 35mm and 120mm S lenses, with the 70mm and 180mm being a bit lower in performance to my eye (at least when I take into account their focal lengths...the 180 is sharper than the 35mm, for example). The 70mm is my most used focal length because of the angle of view and the size of the lens, yet it seems to be the weakest S lens. I have had two copies, and both have an odd habit of being sharp in the center at infinity, but with the sharpness plane extending in a curve...so the edges are sharp at 20m-30m, but soft at infinity. I am not sure if this is a quirk in the lens design, or of the way the S focuses. It does not happen all the time, but it does happen a lot, and only with the 70mm. I only say this as the 70 is the only S lens I have any real criticism of, and yet it should be the centerpiece of the whole system. It seems the 45mm might also be a bit of an afterthought (perhaps too strong of a word) when compared to the wide angles, at least in terms of speed and size etc. I just wish Leica would put the same time and energy into developing the normal lenses as they seem to do with the exotic ones. Perhaps they do? But the selection does not seem to suggest that...I would be curious to hear some frank words on this from the S design team, but I imagine they would not really be free to discuss this kind of thing.
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Now if Leica could pull off a Summicron, that'd be something.
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Yes, I own the 30-90 and have used it on every shoot since taking delivery over 6 months ago. It's my workhorse lens for what I do (architecture) inside and out. Unequivocally, the best zoom I've ever used. Truly impressive performance center to edge. The only reasons I might find to own a fixed S lens in this range is if I needed to shoot wide open and need shallower depth of field, or needed a leaf shutter.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    Now if Leica could pull off a Summicron, that'd be something.
    I think they need to produce a faster portrait lens,100-120mm f2,I bought the CS120 to use for portraits but the focus hunting makes it too slow,if they even added a focus range limiter it would have helped but a dedicated f2 portrait lens would be sweet..

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsmphoto View Post
    Yes, I own the 30-90 and have used it on every shoot since taking delivery over 6 months ago. It's my workhorse lens for what I do (architecture) inside and out. Unequivocally, the best zoom I've ever used. Truly impressive performance center to edge. The only reasons I might find to own a fixed S lens in this range is if I needed to shoot wide open and need shallower depth of field, or needed a leaf shutter.
    I would like to try one out,or compare it against the HCD 35-90 which is also very good(and has leaf shutters)

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    I think they need to produce a faster portrait lens,100-120mm f2,I bought the CS120 to use for portraits but the focus hunting makes it too slow,if they even added a focus range limiter it would have helped but a dedicated f2 portrait lens would be sweet..
    That was the issue I had with the CS 120mm when I tried out both the Lieca S2 and S in the studio. It would more times than not hunt and the lighting was exceptionally adequate for autofocusing. At the time I immediately thought how useful a focus limiter would be on this lens, especially that it's also used for close up work. Whether this excessive hunting is due to the lens, the body or a combination of these particular two components of the system, its hard to say. Optically though the lens leaves little to be desired.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    I would like to try one out,or compare it against the HCD 35-90 which is also very good(and has leaf shutters)
    I know the 35-90 is indeed also very good, but for me, the added wide angle field of view from 35 to 30mm makes a big difference. All I need is a 24mm and I'm pretty much set. Negates the need for a 28mm.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsmphoto View Post
    I know the 35-90 is indeed also very good, but for me, the added wide angle field of view from 35 to 30mm makes a big difference. All I need is a 24mm and I'm pretty much set. Negates the need for a 28mm.
    I have the S24mm. it's fantastic.. very expensive but amazing

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Hi Robert,

    could you please elaborate a bit on the 24? It's the lens (focal length) I'd love to buy next, but strangely, the examples I've seen thus far floating around on the net, I've not been too impressed with. Maybe it's the web, maybe it's the relatively short DOF of the S system, but I haven't seen any really crisp 24 mm images yet ...

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Hi Robert,

    could you please elaborate a bit on the 24? It's the lens (focal length) I'd love to buy next, but strangely, the examples I've seen thus far floating around on the net, I've not been too impressed with. Maybe it's the web, maybe it's the relatively short DOF of the S system, but I haven't seen any really crisp 24 mm images yet ...
    Peter,I sent you a link to a file via personal message..

    Rob

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Thanks! That's a spatious living room
    I've looked at the DNG in LR5 and detail and corner sharpness is amazing. I could easily remove the moire in the couch, the total image looks great. This is what I was hoping to see from the 24 mm.

    I looked at these images at LUF and wasn't so sure, but I downloaded some from flickr and they look fine to me as far as the lens is concerned.

    Leica Super Elmar - S 24mm f3.5 - Leica User Forum

    Stuart, the 45 mm seems to be quite good, looking at the MTF, but I'd rather go for the zoom. I think the FOV of the 24 mm would be a good addition to a 30-90. If one is going to stop down a bit, I have a feeling the IQ of the zoom is - almost - inextinguishable from the primes in that range.
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Thanks! That's a spatious living room
    I've looked at the DNG in LR5 and detail and corner sharpness is amazing. I could easily remove the moire in the couch, the total image looks great. This is what I was hoping to see from the 24 mm.

    I looked at these images at LUF and wasn't so sure, but I downloaded some from flickr and they look fine to me as far as the lens is concerned.

    Leica Super Elmar - S 24mm f3.5 - Leica User Forum

    Stuart, the 45 mm seems to be quite good, looking at the MTF, but I'd rather go for the zoom. I think the FOV of the 24 mm would be a good addition to a 30-90. If one is going to stop down a bit, I have a feeling the IQ of the zoom is - almost - inextinguishable from the primes in that range.
    I looked at those images on LUF,I like the images themselves but it's difficult to tell if they're correctly focused,My own experience with he S24 is that you must be very careful to get critically sharp focus,when you do it's razor sharp... as you can see it easily oversampled the S sensor..
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    I think the 30-90 is fantastic. It gives me all the image quality I need, and it is super versatile. For me, the difference between 30 and 35 was also important because I found the 35 sometimes not wide enough.

    I already posted is somewhere: A few months ago at the Leica shop in Brussels, I met the S2 product specialist for Belgium and France. He showed me prints made by a German professional who shot the zoom against the 30, 35, 70, and 120 in a studio set up (tripod and the whole shebang). At least for the center, it was impossible to detect a difference (if anything, the zoom had more micro contrast). These were full shot prints of a rear side of a Porsche 911 and 30x40 cm prints of half the number plate. Now, the primes may have the edge in the corner wide open. BUT: how much difference does that make in practice? When is you corner in the plane of focus when you shoot these lenses wide open? Not so often, I would guess. In any event, for me its a dawn good lens and I never regretted having put the money on the table.

    Since buying it in spring, I have not used the 35 once. In fact, this year almost 75% of my shots with the S2 were made with the zoom (in 2012, about 25% of shots were made with the 35). I still sometimes use the 70 because it is so small and fast (and soooooo good). So I do not see any need for the 45 for me.

    Now, if I only could get the 24 !

    Great weekend to you all.
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by GMB View Post
    I think the 30-90 is fantastic. It gives me all the image quality I need, and it is super versatile. For me, the difference between 30 and 35 was also important because I found the 35 sometimes not wide enough.

    I already posted is somewhere: A few months ago at the Leica shop in Brussels, I met the S2 product specialist for Belgium and France. He showed me prints made by a German professional who shot the zoom against the 30, 35, 70, and 120 in a studio set up (tripod and the whole shebang). At least for the center, it was impossible to detect a difference (if anything, the zoom had more micro contrast). These were full shot prints of a rear side of a Porsche 911 and 30x40 cm prints of half the number plate. Now, the primes may have the edge in the corner wide open. BUT: how much difference does that make in practice? When is you corner in the plane of focus when you shoot these lenses wide open? Not so often, I would guess. In any event, for me its a dawn good lens and I never regretted having put the money on the table.

    Since buying it in spring, I have not used the 35 once. In fact, this year almost 75% of my shots with the S2 were made with the zoom (in 2012, about 25% of shots were made with the 35). I still sometimes use the 70 because it is so small and fast (and soooooo good). So I do not see any need for the 45 for me.

    Now, if I only could get the 24 !

    Great weekend to you all.
    I am contemplating a 30-90mm,I just ordered the 45 though,for me the primes are my first choice because of speed and leaf shutters but the Zoom is fantastic,and if your on the move or in dusty environments then it's hard to beat..

    Rob

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by GMB View Post
    I think the 30-90 is fantastic. It gives me all the image quality I need, and it is super versatile. For me, the difference between 30 and 35 was also important because I found the 35 sometimes not wide enough.

    I already posted is somewhere: A few months ago at the Leica shop in Brussels, I met the S2 product specialist for Belgium and France. He showed me prints made by a German professional who shot the zoom against the 30, 35, 70, and 120 in a studio set up (tripod and the whole shebang). At least for the center, it was impossible to detect a difference (if anything, the zoom had more micro contrast). These were full shot prints of a rear side of a Porsche 911 and 30x40 cm prints of half the number plate. Now, the primes may have the edge in the corner wide open. BUT: how much difference does that make in practice? When is you corner in the plane of focus when you shoot these lenses wide open? Not so often, I would guess. In any event, for me its a dawn good lens and I never regretted having put the money on the table.

    Since buying it in spring, I have not used the 35 once. In fact, this year almost 75% of my shots with the S2 were made with the zoom (in 2012, about 25% of shots were made with the 35). I still sometimes use the 70 because it is so small and fast (and soooooo good). So I do not see any need for the 45 for me.

    Now, if I only could get the 24 !

    Great weekend to you all.
    Nice to hear the positive experiences. I have ordered the zoom in the end of June and looking forward getting it this month. In the meantime I have photographed with a 70 mm, which I got on loan from the vendor.
    - vintola -
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Thanks Georg! I have been trying to find as many samples and comments as I can, and I have yet to find anything other than overwhelmingly positive. My dealer is offering me a pretty good price on it, so I believe I will just go ahead and purchase it. It will fill more gaps for me than the 45mm would alone, and in my past experience with the 28-90 on the DMR, I found that I really enjoyed using the zoom and found the quality left nothing to be desired.

    On that camera, I used the 28-90 and 100mm APO more than any other lenses, occasionally using the 50mm f/1.4. So in this context, I think I would use the 30-90 as the primary lens in conjunction with the 120mm, and the 70/2.5 for when I need a compact, faster normal. Given how good the 28-90 was, I am sure the 30-90 will be equally satisfying to me. In fact, looking at the old datasheet and mtf for the 28-90, the new S zoom is very significantly improved in performance -- even wide open the 40lpm graph begins about 70% contrast in the center, while on the 28-90 only manages in the 50% range. It seems to be better to a greater or lesser degree over all ranges and focal lengths. Seeing as this has to cover a much larger image circle, includes AF and weather sealing, it is an impressive achievement that it has been improved so much!
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Hello

    I'm jumping to this thread as I'm considering to buy the zoom, especially for traveling and outdoor fashion shootings.

    May I ask to post some portraits etc that may allow to judge the bokeh? I know that it is a slow lens but maybe it shows some nice bokeh anyway?

    btw. I second the opinion that a Summicron portrait lens would be great. I actually have the 120 but prefer to work with the Hasselblad HC 100 for portraits to avoid the focus hunting

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    I have only had the lens a little while, and I have not shot any portraits with it yet, but in my limited experience, it has quite decent bokeh. The 28-90mm zoom for the R had great bokeh, so I am not too surprised. That said, I think the 120 or 180mm would be better for portraits....the 120 in particular (to my mind, anyway). When are you experiencing focus hunting? I would suggest switching to manual focus and setting the AF/AE lock button on the back to focus and using that. Once you get used to operating that way, it tends to work much better, as the lens does not go off hunting for focus when you don't want it too.
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephan_w View Post
    Hello

    I'm jumping to this thread as I'm considering to buy the zoom, especially for traveling and outdoor fashion shootings.

    May I ask to post some portraits etc that may allow to judge the bokeh? I know that it is a slow lens but maybe it shows some nice bokeh anyway?

    btw. I second the opinion that a Summicron portrait lens would be great. I actually have the 120 but prefer to work with the Hasselblad HC 100 for portraits to avoid the focus hunting
    Hi Stephan.

    I think it all depends on whether you do outdoor fashion using lighting. I passed on the Leica Zoom because it is not available as a CS Leaf shutter version. Every lens I have for the S system is a CS version.

    Like you, I tend to use the Hasselblad HC100/2.2 for a lot of portrait work and it can be used in the CS mode for fast sync speeds up to 1/750 outdoors with lighting.

    Previously, I had the Hasselblad HCD35-90/4.5 zoom, and at 90mm to get the nice subject separation from the background that is available with the HC100/2.2 or S120/2.5 was not possible unless very close to the subject, and the background was more distant.

    The S120 hunts and is slow focusing due to the longer focus throw of a macro for more critical refined close focusing ability even with camera set to Manual focus and using the rear thumb button for AF, it is still slow and hunts. Fortunately, the S viewfinder is so bright/crisp that manual focusing isn't all bad.

    A new Leica S100/2 would be the only thing to dislodge me from the AF HC-100/2.2 right now for portraits. That, or being stopped by my family bank manager (AKA: Wife)

    - Marc

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Bumping this thread: could someone please post some pics with the 30-90 zoom ? or insert links ?
    thanks

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    I have the zoom, and sold my 30 and 70 for it. You lose a little in aperture, but gain a lot in versatility, it makes the S a walk-around although a bit heavy - I used it for a week in the streets of Havana, perfectly workable in daylight.
    I cannot speak for the 45, but the new 100 is small and light, almost as the 70mm, a great portrait lens, but also a good walk-around. I would love to have a small "pancake" 45'ish as a walk-around, f/4 would be ok.
    - ErlingMM

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    My standard combo when going out with the S is very often 45 (sometimes 35 or 30mm)+100mm these days, sometimes even just the 45mm - one can do a lot with just this lens, specially when you have 36MP of good pixels and can crop a bit when needed.
    I have been tempted by the zoom several times, but I use wider f-stops quite often.
    If I was shooting mainly landscapes I might favor the Zoom, but I do a lot of images of my kids and sometimes inside so I favor the primes.
    The bad thing: I need to sell 1 of my wides and cant make up my mind if I should keep 30mm or 35mm.
    I also wish for a smaller 45mm prime, maybe f3.5 and no Shuuter included, but smaal and light.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    My standard combo when going out with the S is very often 45 (sometimes 35 or 30mm)+100mm these days, sometimes even just the 45mm -
    The bad thing: I need to sell 1 of my wides and cant make up my mind if I should keep 30mm or 35mm.
    I also wish for a smaller 45mm prime, maybe f3.5 and no Shuuter included, but smaal and light.
    what is stopping you from doing what seems to be the obvious and selling off the 35mm ? 45/30mm combination seems logical to me.

    I'm stewing over 100/35/24mm whereas I currently own 70/35mm & 5 Hasselblad lenses. Think I swing between the extremes more. That showed on Lightroom analysis when I had Canon zooms.

    Gary

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    This is an OVF, so faster maximum apertures equals a brighter viewfinder.

    - Marc

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo View Post
    what is stopping you from doing what seems to be the obvious and selling off the 35mm ? 45/30mm combination seems logical to me.

    I'm stewing over 100/35/24mm whereas I currently own 70/35mm & 5 Hasselblad lenses. Think I swing between the extremes more. That showed on Lightroom analysis when I had Canon zooms.

    Gary
    The thing is that sometimes, when it is a little tighter inside or expect to wish a little more wide than 45 I leave 45 at home and bring 35. 35 is still fine for environmental portraits, while I consider the 30 more difficult here. I would use the 30 more for landscape.
    Also the 35 is f2.5 and its the lightest of the bunch (30/35/45).
    But you are probably right.
    I also own the 24mm. The problem (if it is a problem) is for me that I dont want to carry too many lenses at the same time and therefore the extrem ones (24 and 180) often stay at home.
    I first had 35 and 70 and that combo worked quite well too, I do however elove the 45 and 100.
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    The thing is that sometimes, when it is a little tighter inside or expect to wish a little more wide than 45 I leave 45 at home and bring 35. 35 is still fine for environmental portraits, while I consider the 30 more difficult here. I would use the 30 more for landscape.
    Also the 35 is f2.5 and its the lightest of the bunch (30/35/45).
    But you are probably right.
    I also own the 24mm. The problem (if it is a problem) is for me that I dont want to carry too many lenses at the same time and therefore the extrem ones (24 and 180) often stay at home.
    I first had 35 and 70 and that combo worked quite well too, I do however elove the 45 and 100.
    It's a Full House then. :-)

    Maybe an assistant is what you need ?

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    If I had two S-bodies I'd go for the 45/100 combo as that's how I generally shoot weddings with my M system or other systems.

    I think that with one body, I'd limit myself to key FLs to keep things simple.. Something like 35/70/120 as they're evenly spaced out and 35 (28) is as wide as I'd go and 120 (96) is as long as I'd go, the more extreme wides and the longest tele aren't FLs I'd switch to if I already had another lens mounted. However, for the way I shoot, and the subjects I shoot, the FLs I mentioned make sense. But that doesn't apply to everyone.

    I'm really still tempted by the idea of two S-bodies and the 45/100 combo. I want to see how the S-007 is before I jump into the S-system full speed.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by aDam007 View Post
    If I had two S-bodies I'd go for the 45/100 combo as that's how I generally shoot weddings with my M system or other systems.

    I think that with one body, I'd limit myself to key FLs to keep things simple.. Something like 35/70/120 as they're evenly spaced out and 35 (28) is as wide as I'd go and 120 (96) is as long as I'd go, the more extreme wides and the longest tele aren't FLs I'd switch to if I already had another lens mounted. However, for the way I shoot, and the subjects I shoot, the FLs I mentioned make sense. But that doesn't apply to everyone.

    I'm really still tempted by the idea of two S-bodies and the 45/100 combo. I want to see how the S-007 is before I jump into the S-system full speed.
    Why would you choose focal length combo depending on one or two bodies?
    I don't think I would like to carry 2 S-bodies. In this case I really would need an assistant

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Why would you choose focal length combo depending on one or two bodies?
    I don't think I would like to carry 2 S-bodies. In this case I really would need an assistant
    The S bodies aren't that much bigger/heavier than a DMR. I normally tote 2 DMRs around at music festivals, with a 50/2 and the 180/2.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    I wound up buying the 30-90mm zoom, and while it is very good, I subsequently bought the 45mm and tend to shoot only the prime lenses. The zoom is very versatile, but for my purposes the edges and corners are not sharp enough to be a good general purpose lens. It is better at 30-50mm or so, but at about 60mm and up the lens is quite soft in the edges, and never gets sharp enough that the transition isn't apparent in large prints. Small prints would look fine. Since I am mostly photographing things far away that are mostly equidistant, this behavior is very visible. In a closer range, more 3d environment, this would be much less apparent.

    At first I thought it was a problem with my lens or body, but I went on a visit to Leica and brought both, and they looked at them and tested them, and pronounced them both as performing perfectly. The behavior is hinted at in the MTF charts...there is a fairly strong dip in performance at the edges...tangential structures are below 20% contrast at some apertures and focal lengths. If you compare this to the MTF of the 45mm for example, even at 2.8 it barely dips below 40%, and at 5.6 it is all above 60%. In the real world, this means fuzzy edges. If the convenience is more important than edge to edge performance, then get the zoom. If you want the best possible results from a technical standpoint, don't believe the marketing that the zoom is "as good as the prime". It is on center, but not in the field.

    The major caveat to all this is that it is still a superbly good lens, just not as superbly good.
    You could just cut off the edges!



    Here is another photo at 90mm that did not show much of a problem. Most are just fine as long as you don't look too closely or compare them to the primes.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Why would you choose focal length combo depending on one or two bodies?
    I don't think I would like to carry 2 S-bodies. In this case I really would need an assistant
    Sorry just seen this.

    I think two bodies are necessary when shooting a wedding. Or at least for the types of shots I like to get, I prefer using two bodies. I find the 1Dx to be almost the same weight as the S-006, but less friendly to grip. So the weight doesn't bother me so much.

    Only if I had two S-006 bodies, I'd have the 45/100. Alone 45 is just a bit to wide for my use, and 100 is a bit to long for my use. However if I had two bodies and didn't need to switch lenses, they're perfect FLs for my work.

    When I only have one body, I'd much rather use a 50 equivalent (the 70-S) and just take a few steps back and a few steps forward. Then if I REALLY need to, switch the the 120 or 35 as needed (I'm looking to buy a 35, if I can find one at a fair price).

    Hope this clears things up.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    I have a question for the OP..

    Are you really more worried about overall corner performance then the look/feel of the lens?

    To be honest, I find the S-system lenses to be more even tempered, but the M-system lenses are moody. So when I'm hunting for a lens I want, I really don't pay much attention to tech details, but more to the look of the lens. Perhaps this is because I don't shoot landscapes, but would the zoom be as nice in it's rendering as the prime. And does that matter to you at all?

    Since you now have both, what is your feeling about the mood/drawing style or whatever you call it of the lenses?

    I'm actually curious because if the zoom has good mood but poor corner performance, it might be fine for me as an in-studio lens.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    It is more the edge performance than the corner performance (the corner is often sky or foreground, but the edge is real image detail). I also think that it is an integral part of the look and feel of the lens. Seeing as I am often taking landscape shots and printing them at a meter and a half wide, the edge performance is important. The main reason it is so important is that the transition from extremely sharp to soft is clearly visible in the prints, and is disturbing to the eye. I will look for samples, but it is actually a really busy day today, so I don't have time to make them right now.

    I will repeat as well that I think the zoom is lovely in every other way than this one. The distortion does not bother me, the bokeh is very nice, and it is great to handle. The color and contrast is excellent and it pairs well with the rest of the S lens line other than the fact that it does not fair well in the edges. For me that is a deal breaker. If you are a wedding shooter or working in the studio with people, I think it is very unlikely to bother you. You might not even notice it.
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Interesting, thanks for the comments.

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Stuart, thanks for the comments.
    Edge performance would be an issue for me for the landscaping shots: F11 and above. Have you noticed a reduced edge performance at these stops as well ?

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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by satybhat View Post
    Stuart, thanks for the comments.
    Edge performance would be an issue for me for the landscaping shots: F11 and above. Have you noticed a reduced edge performance at these stops as well ?
    I also have this lens,I agree with everything Stuart said,its not bad at the edges at the wider end but past 60 its starting to suffer,F11 makes no difference imo..

    Rob
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    Re: New 45mm S vs 30-90 zoom? Any thoughts?

    For future reference, anybody who's looking for more info on the 30-90, Lloyd Chambers posted his review/impressions of this Leica S zoom:

    http://diglloyd.com/blog/2015/201504...rsInCreek.html

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