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Thread: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

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    M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Thought it might be time for this type of thread. I have been busy this week-end shooting a borrowed A7R and a HOST of M lenses...I am satisfied that everything 28 mm (summcricron) and above would suit my purposes, and in particular, the longer lenses work great, with precision focus.... I am definitely getting one, at this point, not that there was really any doubt...it'll likely serve as my back up to the MM, and will run alongside my M9 at times.


    I plan to post my comments and thoughts along the way, but I am impressed....it's not, by any means, a faultless camera, but the sensor shines in many regards!































    Last edited by ashwinrao1; 25th November 2013 at 06:36.
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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    And the answer on the wides is . . .

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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    And the answer on the wides is . . .
    This has been done to death on FM Forums, 116 pages and counting:

    A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

    What is it with "the wides", anyway? 99% (give or take) of shots I see taken with M's are wide open and with an OOF background. Just look at the Fun w/Digital M Images thread on this forum.

    Lovely images, BTW, Ashwin!
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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Ashwin
    What lens was used for the first photo? Seems to exhibit excessive purple fringing.
    I like the colors coming from this sensor!

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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Hi Woody, not a huge fan of wides (changed for self protection lol) on the camera. There is generally a loss of resolution at the edges, as discussed, and color shifts for lenses wider than 35, along with some older 35's. I was able to generally correct for issues with the 28 cron, and haven't had much concern within the 35 lux or longer lenses. The Noct f/0.95 seems to exhibit more purple fringing than usual , but keeps its magic otherwise . Raw files are great. I still far prefer the MM for bw work by quite a bit , but in general I like the colors coming from the A7R and feel that the colors are pleasing in general when color shift is not at play. On a separate note, and this is totally subjective, I think that the IQ coming from the RX1R is subtly superior, but.I am using adapted lenses and a beta raw converter in LR5.3RC
    Last edited by ashwinrao1; 25th November 2013 at 06:27.
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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    This has been done to death on FM Forums, 116 pages and counting:

    A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

    What is it with "the wides", anyway? 99% (give or take) of shots I see taken with M's are wide open and with an OOF background. Just look at the Fun w/Digital M Images thread on this forum.

    Lovely images, BTW, Ashwin!

    So, what's wrong with discussing this a bit over here on this forum?
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Hi Woody, not a huge fan of wife's on the camera. There is generally a loss of resolution at the edges,

    Wow Ashwin, and you aren't even married yet are you?

    I promise I won't tell on you

    Lovely shots, interested that you can manage with the 28 'cron, I suspect I won't bother.

    As expected, it looks like the WATE is a good option for the camera (I guess it'll be some time before there is anything comparable from Zeiss or Sony). Did you try it?

    I'm also interested in shooting with R lenses. Need a camera first though!

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    This has been done to death on FM Forums, 116 pages and counting:

    A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

    What is it with "the wides", anyway? 99% (give or take) of shots I see taken with M's are wide open and with an OOF background. Just look at the Fun w/Digital M Images thread on this forum.

    Lovely images, BTW, Ashwin!
    It is quite obvious that there are situations where poor edges and corners performances are not important for the picture; this does not mean that the M wides (with the exception of the WATE) can be considered good performers on the Sony A7R, which remains a lovely camera anyhow.
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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ario Arioldi View Post
    It is quite obvious that there are situations where poor edges and corners performances are not important for the picture; this does not mean that the M wides (with the exception of the WATE) can be considered good performers on the Sony A7R, which remains a lovely camera anyhow.
    Thanks. I recall also having seen some impressive shots with the 21 and 24 Summiluxes on the A7R. However, those were jpg images and not conclusive.

    I should get my A7R in early December and, of course, my WATE will be one of the first lenses on it.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks. I recall also having seen some impressive shots with the 21 and 24 Summiluxes on the A7R. However, those were jpg images and not conclusive.

    I should get my A7R in early December and, of course, my WATE will be one of the first lenses on it.
    I have the Summilux 21 but I have not mounted it yet on the Sony A7R; I will do as soon as I can and I will show the results.
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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ario Arioldi View Post
    I have the Summilux 21 but I have not mounted it yet on the Sony A7R; I will do as soon as I can and I will show the results.
    Many thanks. I am looking forward to your images.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    The 21 Super Elmar was not a good performer on the A7R FWIW.

    Jono, thanks, my friend. If I had a WATE, I would have tried it immediately, but alas sadly sold mine years ago. For the 28 cron, I found that using the LR5.3 GND filter for any corner/section that color shifted obviously, set to around +50 exposers, increasing the tint towards green, and then shifting the color temp down to a slightly cooler setting seemed to mask the matter...I am color blind though heheh...and that is the truth, so most of the color shift matters are harder for me to visualize....it may also be why people generally prefer my bw work and why I prefer the MM....

    The wife comment...wow, my ipad is dangerous ... Corrected for self preservation.
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    couple of questions;

    is the NEX mount the same as the A7R?
    does Capture One process A7R files (yet?)

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    couple of questions;

    is the NEX mount the same as the A7R?
    does Capture One process A7R files (yet?)

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    couple of questions;

    is the NEX mount the same as the A7R?
    Yup!

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Wonderful shots as usual Ashwin and appreciate your posting them. This camera has such potential but by most accounts, clearly lens selection for the 35mm focal length and wider will have to be carefully evaluated on a lens by lens basis. Is B&W output about on par with say an M9? In other words quite adequate by could be bested by the MM others? Thanks.

    Dave(DandA)

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    couple of questions;

    is the NEX mount the same as the A7R?
    does Capture One process A7R files (yet?)
    Capture One does not support the A7R files yet.
    LR, ACR, Iridient, AccuRaw (beta), RPP (beta) may be others...

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Nice pictures Ashwin! Looks like a good backup solution. Having just got my M, I'm going to stay faithful to it ( except for when I use my D800e ). Did you try any of the Sony lenses?

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    More testing from today. This is a temperamental sensor. I have seen some vignetting and color shifts using the "grey day" torture tests, shooting the 50 lux asph and 35 summarit...Yet, I continue to find the files enjoyable in terms of workability:









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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    This has been done to death on FM Forums, 116 pages and counting:

    A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

    What is it with "the wides", anyway? 99% (give or take) of shots I see taken with M's are wide open and with an OOF background. Just look at the Fun w/Digital M Images thread on this forum.

    Lovely images, BTW, Ashwin!
    In answer to your statement/question: 1. Ashwin is a trusted observer. I'm happy to rely on his judgment rather than sort through an endless and often uncivil thread.

    2. Well . . . some of us just shoot wides. Guess I'll have to be in the 1%.

    The Sony A7R won't fit my shooting style, although it's a fine camera and may work for everyone else in the world.

    Plus one on the praise for Ashwin's terrific images.
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    Re: M and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    In answer to your statement/question: 1. Ashwin is a trusted observer. I'm happy to rely on his judgment rather than sort through an endless and often uncivil thread.

    2. Well . . . some of us just shoot wides. Guess I'll have to be in the 1%.

    The Sony A7R won't fit my shooting style, although it's a fine camera and may work for everyone else in the world.

    Plus one on the praise for Ashwin's terrific images.
    Hi Woody
    absolutely concur with you - Ashwin is both a great guy and a great photographer.

    I also shoot wides . . . . . . it's taken me 24 hours with the A7r to teach me 2 things.

    1. It's a fantastic and versatile camera with excellent IQ

    2. It's not for me either.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    i am struggling with the decision. Ultimately, I really enjoyed 2 days of shooting iwth it, and then didn't like one day with it...Very mood dependent. I need to try it with its own lenses as well to render judgment. I plan to keep my RX1R for the moment, after my fiancee basically demanded it...lol...so, less money in the camera fund forces more careful consideration of such "extra" purchases
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    i am struggling with the decision. Ultimately, I really enjoyed 2 days of shooting iwth it, and then didn't like one day with it...Very mood dependent. I need to try it with its own lenses as well to render judgment. I plan to keep my RX1R for the moment, after my fiancee basically demanded it...lol...so, less money in the camera fund forces more careful consideration of such "extra" purchases
    On this one you've helped me break my pattern of many years: interesting new camera comes out; buy it early, probably at a premium; try it for a month; realize I get better results from my MM (or M or whatever); sell it on the used market.

    Thanks!
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    I really want to like this camera, but I like my wides and I'm not a fan of oddness or color casts - you're saying it does this even with 35 and 50mm lenses? Ugh.

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    I really want to like this camera, but I like my wides and I'm not a fan of oddness or color casts - you're saying it does this even with 35 and 50mm lenses? Ugh.
    No one is saying that!! There is no evidence anywhere that R lenses do anything weird on the A7R/A7. It is a great opportunity to use this orphaned system lenses!
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    No panic, but can we move this tread to "Sony" section?
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Need this thread for the R users.

    Paul
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by camping View Post
    Need this thread for the R users.

    Paul
    No one gave a hoot about this thread: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/37...hen-leica.html

    It was so cute to see all the images on m43rds and APS-C sensors.

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    The problem with R-lenses - IMO - that with some exceptions like the 60 macros many of the R-lenses are overpriced at the moment.
    I recently sold my 28-90 for 500$ more than I paid for it 2 years ago just to realize I could have sold it for even 1500 $ more on ebay.


    I also wonder how those lenses balance on the body of the A7r.

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Wides don't do well?

    The M Rokkor 28/2.8 does not create any problems for me.


    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
    Sony A7R, M Rokkor 28/2.8, f/4, ISO1250
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    The price of R lenses was too low and are now approaching their normal level.
    The 50mm 1.4 E60 should be at a relative price to the M50mm 1.4.
    The wide angles will really appreciate.
    The time to buy was when the prices were low and now with the A7 cameras they will become fairly priced.

    Guy bought his R 19mm at the bottom of the market.

    Even the simple, cheap, and compact Minolta M lenses will rise. Especially the 28mm and 40mm which Vivek has shown in all there glory. Can you imagine they could have been bought for less than $300.
    By having a good selection of M and R glass one would not have to buy the expensive Zeiss A glass.

    Paul
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    No one is saying that!! There is no evidence anywhere that R lenses do anything weird on the A7R/A7. It is a great opportunity to use this orphaned system lenses!
    Actually, Ashwin did - at least with M lenses.

    I'm not interested in a camera that I have to buy additional lenses for (in this case, R, as I have none currently). Then I might as well stick with a system that works together from the get-go (e.g. buying Sony/Zeiss lenses for the A7R or just sticking with a system). I have M lenses, so if the body doesn't work well with those then it's a dead-end.

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    There is a legend coming to the local boutique shop soon. I am going to make a visit with my MM and my "Barnack Sony" to meet/greet him.

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    On this one you've helped me break my pattern of many years: interesting new camera comes out; buy it early, probably at a premium; try it for a month; realize I get better results from my MM (or M or whatever); sell it on the used market.

    Thanks!
    Me too Woody . . . . except I did buy it . . . . and then took it back.

    . . . . . and I agree the thread should be here for R users.

    I tried several R lenses, and they were good - and nice to use as well. . . . . as are the Contax Zeiss lenses which are of almost the same quality and something like 1/10th of the price!

    I think this camera is lots of important things - it just isn't a better way of using M lenses.

    Having spent the last three years trying out 3rd party lenses on different cameras I've just come to the conclusion that cameras are best used with the lenses designed for them.

    If Sony/Zeiss can come up with good quality lenses which match the size of the camera, then I'll be back in there like a flash - I liked the camera, the only real thing missing is IBIS.

    As for the RX1r Ashwin - I'd have one of those if it were 50mm, but I'm not a 35mm user, really not.

    I think what Sony is doing right now is really important - moving the industry forward, and it's fun being a guinea pig too . . . but not if it's too constraining

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    .... I think what Sony is doing right now is really important - moving the industry forward, and it's fun being a guinea pig too . . . but not if it's too constraining
    That was the biggest disappointment in the D800, basically no innovation at all. Sony are pushing all the boundaries at so many levels. Innovations in focusing to putting silent controllers on the cameras for video to being a force in mirrorless cameras. Both Canon and Nikon are being left behind and Sony are covering all the bases. It pains me as I've hated Sony for many years due to their music rights policies, but have to admit they're on top of their game.


    I had a Nex 7 briefly but too small for my hands. The Zeiss 24 1.8 was lovely and the 18-200 (I still keep for videos with an original Nex 5) is also a great lens with stunning colour.
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Ashwin - which lens did you use for the hummingbird pic? Very nice.

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Thanks! it was the Canon 85 mm f/1.8 ltm
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    That chat at FM is information overload on the Sony.

    I much prefer seeing a few images, hearing some intelligent talk about what works and doesn't, and letting me formulate my own opinion.

    I have decided at this point, this is not the camera for me to supplement my own photography at least not at this point. If something happens that changes, then we'll see, but why spend my shutter clicks or my $ on a camera I don't really need that will require new lenses?

    Thanks for sharing.

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Talk and information overload aside, the camera does really friggin well.... I can't wait to see Sony flush the system out, as the sensor is really nice, and in operature, the A7 does great. The A7R, I am sure, would be fantastic. I gotta say, the A7 is fitting in nicely as a change of pace camera for me (from my Leicas, that is).... I do ponder the added detail from the R, but find that the A7 files remind me quite a bit of the RX1 files....very solid....

    Here are some pics from a birthday filled week-end, taken with a borrowed 35 mm FE lens and 75 Summilux, mainly at ISO 1600-6400....























    By the way, all images were processed in LR, and color choices were a mix of available light and processing
    Ashwin Rao
    Seattle, WA
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    That's a nice birthday set Ashwin. next to last one for me is very nice.
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Read several folks have tried the LR Flat Field feature to remove colour casts with wides. Has anyone tried the LCC feature in C1, and any thoughts on this?

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    C1 does not cover the A7/R yet; i'm sure it will with next release?

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Ah yes, forgot about C1 support. I would have thought that LCC was supported on JPG as well, I will go and check.

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Read several folks have tried the LR Flat Field feature to remove colour casts with wides. Has anyone tried the LCC feature in C1, and any thoughts on this?
    I use(d) this on NEX-7 (still waiting on A7R) - worked perfectly. So no reason why it shouldn't work with the A7s too...
    Andreas

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Which lens did you use for the black and white baby close-up?
    What a truly beautiful image!

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmiddi View Post
    I use(d) this on NEX-7 (still waiting on A7R) - worked perfectly. So no reason why it shouldn't work with the A7s too...
    Andreas
    Thanks. Looks like it would be simpler than the flat field thingy in LR. Also, since there is no T/S involved, we should be able to use a library for different aperture values quite easily. Of course, the damn thing does not record aperture in the EXIF, so this would need to be done manually

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Having spent the last three years trying out 3rd party lenses on different cameras I've just come to the conclusion that cameras are best used with the lenses designed for them.

    If Sony/Zeiss can come up with good quality lenses which match the size of the camera, then I'll be back in there like a flash - I liked the camera, the only real thing missing is IBIS.
    How TRUE Jono !!!!

    This is what I have always thought that I want to use cameras with lenses built for that camera and/or system. Everything with Adapter is fun, can be great but finally most times not up to the potential of original glass.

    As soon as Sony/Zeiss have a somehow (much) more complete lineup of lenses I will be in as well! Especially if Sony can implement IBIS - which should not be too difficult as they have all the knowledge in house - even if the camera becomes a tiny bit bulkier

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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Thanks. Looks like it would be simpler than the flat field thingy in LR. Also, since there is no T/S involved, we should be able to use a library for different aperture values quite easily. Of course, the damn thing does not record aperture in the EXIF, so this would need to be done manually
    Yeah, it's easy - I made correction files for each f-setting. When out for shooting I recorded a short movie speaking the EXIF-data to camera (lens and f-stop). So save space I switched video to 640-format (don't need video, so no problem there). Workes for me...
    Andreas
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  49. #49
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Quote Originally Posted by nikonf View Post
    Which lens did you use for the black and white baby close-up?
    What a truly beautiful image!
    Hi there, I believe it was the 75 lux
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: M, R, and LTM lenses on the Sony A7/A7R

    Enjoying my A7...heavy handed low light, ISO 2500- 6400 processing with VSCO. All 50 Lux asph or 35 Lux FLE...both work admirably on the A7 for this type of work, and I really find the EVF and back LCD screen great for critical focusing. Colors of the LED sight lit wall kept changing from blue, to red, to yellow, to green, etc....making for fun painterly tones. Jenn tolerated my camera in exchange for a tasty sushi dinner lol:

    While it'd be nice to have AF, I am working quite fast with this scheme...







    Ashwin Rao
    Seattle, WA
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