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Thread: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

  1. #51
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Asiafish Wrote: >>>"What would I like to see? A CCD Monochrom with the weather sealed body, better frame lines and improved LCD of the M240, but without the CMOS sensor"<<<

    I too would like to see that (what you wrote above), as well as a color CCD Leica rangefinder with the weather sealed body, better frame lines and improved LCD of the M240, but without the CMOS sensor".

    Thirdly I'd like to see me win the lottery so I can purchase both of these very desirable cameras.

    Dave (D&A)

  2. #52
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Not better enough to justify the cost is entirely subjective. The point is, the MM is definitely better, and while it may not fit your workflow, it is better still with colored filters, just as black and white film is.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

  3. #53
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Photography is subjective.
    Brad Husick
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    I've done some research into the MM vs. "MM240" and I have to say, all samples I've seen still give the MM the edge. Not just in detail, but in high-ISO capability. There's also the 14-bits of tonality (16,384 shades of grey). I honestly don't see how the M240 can possibly match it. No doubt, it comes close - perhaps even very close at times. In the end, it comes down to what your output needs are. If you're posting JPGs on the 'net, then sure. Either will do just fine. But the devil, as they say, is in the details.

    Besides, the M240 is still an M240 - whether you desaturate or not. The MM still has plenty of life left in it if you ask me.

  5. #55
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    Besides, the M240 is still an M240 - whether you desaturate or not.
    You do not seem to a fan of the M (240), Michael!

    BTW, congratulations on the MM!

    Currently, element-m, in my view, is the poster boy for the MM. That is an envious position to be in as many of the talented folks who post in the thread started by Brad ("fun with..") and their work is jaw dropping.

    I have already stated one of reasons for my purchase of the MM is, shockingly, it is still the cheapest monochrome camera in the market. Who would have thought the Hermes fans would come up with such a thing!

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You do not seem to a fan of the M (240), Michael!

    BTW, congratulations on the MM!

    Currently, element-m, in my view, is the poster boy for the MM. That is an envious position to be in as many of the talented folks who post in the thread started by Brad ("fun with..") and their work is jaw dropping.
    LOL! Yeah, I don't know what my deal is with the M240. Totally not my bag, baby.

    Thanks! Will be waiting for me on arrival.

    I would agree, element-m rocks the MM. Though others also have some truly outstanding work as well; Ashwin, Woody, Brad, etc. I guess in the end, what really matters - is who's driving.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    LOL! Yeah, I don't know what my deal is with the M240. Totally not my bag, baby.

    Thanks! Will be waiting for me on arrival.

    I would agree, element-m rocks the MM. Though others also have some truly outstanding work as well; Ashwin, Woody, Brad, etc. I guess in the end, what really matters - is who's driving.
    Element-M is clearly (at present) the reigning king of the MM, though in the months that I've been posting in that thread I've noticed all of the usual suspects' work steadily improving. The Monochrom is definitely not a "happy snap" sort of camera, and practice definitely makes perfect.

    Ashwin has also shown just how well the MM pairs with vintage glass.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    ^ Definitely...

    Some more closing thoughts:

    One thing that bears mentioning with the MM (as opposed to the M240) is that it will work with pretty much ANY lens - and not introduce odd colorization (e.g. "red edge") which would thus transfer to your B&W conversion.

    While the M240 converted files do get close, the ultimate "clarity" of details is better with the MM, despite the lower-MP sensor. The ISO - the MM goes to 10,000 and is still absolutely usable. The M240 tops out at ~6,400, depending. There's also the compromise of DR at higher ISOs - which is more prevalent on the M240. Finally there's the ability of the MM to pull details way out of the inkiest of shadows. The M240 file would get rather noisy at this point, I'm thinking.

    Brad had gotten me second-guessing my decision on the MM. So much so that I "paused" my transaction. But after thinking about it over and over I finally just did the deed... I'm going with the MM. Done.

  9. #59
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Michael, I am not sure I share the thoughts you have about the M. I think it (240) is perhaps the most sophisticated camera in the color M line, to date.

    However, no question that the MM is in a league of its own.

    Just one tip for you to consider. Just leave the ISO at its base and shoot away. Even if it is underexposed by 4 stops (you can dial in to underexpose when you want to up the shutter speed), you can still recover what one can get in the post. No worries at all. This is not easily done with a CMOS sensor AFAIK. That, to me, is the advantage of the CCD over the CMOS and nothing else.
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Michael, I am not sure I share the thoughts you have about the M. I think it (240) is perhaps the most sophisticated camera in the color M line, to date.

    However, no question that the MM is in a league of its own.

    Just one tip for you to consider. Just leave the ISO at its base and shoot away. Even if it is underexposed by 4 stops (you can dial in to underexpose when you want to up the shutter speed), you can still recover what one can get in the post. No worries at all. This is not easily done with a CMOS sensor AFAIK. That, to me, is the advantage of the CCD over the CMOS and nothing else.
    Yeah, I haven't thought everything through on the M240; but I'm focusing on the ISO, shadow and detail stuff mostly.

    That tip is right in line with what I'm thinking though. The fact that you can pull a lot, really a lot out of the shadows. You have to take this approach anyway so as to keep the highlights safe (expose to the left with the MM).

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Speaking of ISO 10,000. I had to try it. Mild sharpening and mild noise reduction in LR5

    MM,50 Lux F1.7 1/180th second, ISO 10,000, handheld:


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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    ^ NICE!

    FWIW, another big part of the decision process was the fact that I hate shooting with eyeglasses... Switching between the LCD/EVF2 and VF would be a pain and essentially require them. As mentioned, I use the Walter Eyepiece with the RF VF to great satisfaction. I can read the LCD enough without [glasses] to make selections, etc. In a nutshell, no glasses necessary with the M9/MM!

    Minor detail; I can use my existing finders, half cases, batteries and charger with the MM also. Same ergonomics and operation as well. So carrying both bodies requires no additional brain cells.

    Sorry for rambling in this thread. But this was MY thought process for how I work, anyway. As mentioned, YMMV.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    For me the biggest advantage is the use of old-fashioned yellow, orange and red filters without NO LOSS of information from the file. Using color filter effects in B&W conversion takes information out of the file in the channels you are de-emphasizing. With a real glass filter, you still get full resolution from the sensor.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

  14. #64
    Senior Member dude163's Avatar
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Its almost as sexy as my M8!

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    FWIW, I couldn't be happier with my decision to go MM! I've been shooting with it almost exclusively these past (nearly) two weeks.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    I did not find the M240 and MM files to be close at all, to be honest. I wanted the M240 for a number of reasons, but in the end took the MM. IMHO resolution is quite a bit better, tonality of B&W in another league altogether and file flexibility and robustness in post vastly better. If you are a dedicated B&W shooter and work files hard, there is no decision to make...

  17. #67
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    The MM is a special camera and quite pure in use, but the M240 is capable of clean shots at ISO 5000 and beyond. I owned both for a time and aside from not needing the few extra steps in Lightroom and SilverEfex, the Monochrom became a shelf queen while the M240 did everything asked of it. There were many shooting times when I only had the Monochrom with me that I wished I had the option of color.

    The Monochrom is a wonderful tool that produces fantastic images. But the M240 just eclipses it. I wish I still had a Monochrom around so I could take side by side images and show you what I mean.
    HI Brad
    I've just seen this post. I have both, and I have to agree with you. There is something lovely about the MM files, but the M does fine B&W conversions, and sometimes it's nice to be able to use the channel mixer for conversions.

    To my mind, you can get almost as good B&W from the M, but the colour from the MM is nothing like as good . . . . and nor is anything else (except for the weight).

    all the best

    Just this guy you know
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  18. #68
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Thanks, Jono. It's surprising how passionate some posters feel about their chosen tools. I guess that keeps these boards interesting. We are fortunate to live in a time when there are such good choices available. If my late father or grandfather (Rolleiflex shooters) had ever imagined we would be shooting in lighting conditions that required ISO (ASA) 10,000 he would have had a seizure. I am fortunate to now possess their 11,000 negatives and had them all scanned for posterity. Now THOSE are some great B&W images!

    Happy New Year to you and everyone here on GetDPI.
    -Brad
    Brad Husick
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  19. #69
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Images of days gone by are certainly priceless, especially those from close family members. Must be a treat Brad to go through some of them. Happy New Year to everyone too!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    My mother and father met when she was 13 years old. My grandfather took lots of photos of her as she grew and eventually married my dad, whereupon my dad kept photographing her. She's now almost 79 and I just selected the 100 best photos of her and created a book of them for her. Many of them she had never seen.

    She says she looks at it three times a day and shows it to everyone who visits her.

    If you're interested, here it is to browse:

    Babette by Bradley Husick: Biographies & Memoirs | Blurb Books

    These were all shot on Rolleiflex cameras with various films and the negatives were expertly scanned at 4000dpi by GoPhoto.com in California.

    Sorry to hijack this thread. Getting back to the original post, that special chrome Monochrom camera sure looks sweet.
    Last edited by bradhusick; 17th July 2014 at 09:06.
    Brad Husick
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  21. #71
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    I have all three M bodies …the M240,M9 and Mono . I shoot primarily street and enjoy getting out on the streets in locations like NYC,Paris and Venice . Had 70K street images on the M8/M9 bodies but I ve also adapted my D800E kit to use Leica R lenses. So I ve seen the differences between CCD and CMOS at a fairly detailed level . I want a similar not identical aesthetic so that the files can be grouped into collections ..that appear timeless.

    The color produced by the M9 CCD is still my favorite and I think its much better than the M240 at base ISO ..so below ISO 400-640 …the M9 produces all that I could ask for . The M9 exceeds my expectations for great IQ .

    The M240 is significantly better in every way except for the CCD verse CMOS discussion . It is substantially more responsive ..larger buffer ,has a decent battery and a better viewfinder . The basics are better …I don t want to use the EVF ,LV or movies ..I want a RF camera for my street work . Once I start shooting the new M240 is a seamless transition from the M9 .

    Beyond the handling and operational improvements ….the CMOS sensor now gives me what I ve needed for years ….decent ISO1600 ..with enough latitude (DR and Color) to freely shoot at IS)1600. Its about 1 1/2 EV better than the M9 without killing IQ. That is what lead me to the new M240 more than anything . I can continue to improve the color as I did with the D800E but the M9 will never shoot clean ISO1600.

    The MONO is a different situation ….its just exceptional . After some experimentation I went with yellow filters on each lens when using the MONO ..this gave me a very nice file in LR5 with no effort . I actually think I will be able to establish some presets so that a card can be processed like a roll of film . This takes some effort and I am still working on it .

    I would sure like to have a bigger buffer (the Mono is really slow pushing lossless raw files that are 36MP) ,the battery is awful and the viewfinder just not as nice as the new M . But if I am shooting black and white ..I am trying to do serious work (expect to print large ) and the MONO is in a class by itself .

    Brad makes a strong argument that the M240 black and white files are likewise superb and its expensive in both $$$$ and invested time to get a high level of results from multiple systems .

    Something about the MONO just makes me want to pick it up and learn how to produce better results .

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Ralph Gibson finally went digital.
    He shot his last book entirely with an M Monochrom
    2013 MONO - Ralph Gibson

    Opening
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuPnuJ1BsrY

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Brad,

    What a wonderful thing you did for your mom and yourself. It reminds me why I came to love photography many years ago. My mom had a large collection of photos she accumulated over the years, and I looked through them many, many times as a youth.

    Greg
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  24. #74
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Special Editions like this means a new model is coming soon, perhaps one based on the M240.
    Unfortunately for the ensuing discussion in this case it means no such thing at all. This “special edition" was commissioned by the Dutch importer to mark the official opening of the first Dutch Flagship Store. Nothing more…
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  25. #75
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by BANKER1 View Post
    Brad,

    What a wonderful thing you did for your mom and yourself. It reminds me why I came to love photography many years ago. My mom had a large collection of photos she accumulated over the years, and I looked through them many, many times as a youth.

    Greg
    +1! Quite agree. Brad, what an absolutely wonderful gift you've provided her and I can't imagine much else thats more special. I can see what she treasures it. Aside from those obviously requiring images for specific jobs or purposes, this is what photography was meant to be...creating lasting memories.

    Dave (D&A)
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