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Thread: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

  1. #1
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    Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Oh I want one.


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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Special Editions like this means a new model is coming soon, perhaps one based on the M240.
    Doug Herr http://www.wildlightphoto.com
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Even a plain vanilla edition was difficult find and buy. Special edition? I do not think even the boutique shop can guarantee availabilities anytime!

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    only 35 of them. don't think they'll even make it to shops. but a chrome monochrom is just so gorgeous

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Yes, at an edition of 35 it is hardly a sales push to use up redundant stock.

    Leica are still not meeting demand with the MM, and given the sensor is now unique, not a direct 'upgrade' to an M240 derived sensor, it looks like the current MM CCD version as it stands will be a classic even if a replacement is released (based on the idea that B&W shooters are already more discerning about real quality).

    Steve

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Actually, MM sales are nearly caught up with demand at the 8K entry price, which is of course, 1K more than a new M. It's been in stock at B & H for weeks. Also, the M stocks are beginning to catch up too. we are probably hitting a soft economy in US, photographic gear sales seem to be lagging quite a bit, except for the "it's new and wonderful" stuff, like the new Sony A7 series. hot items. But not 8K either.

    Nice camera, I'd still rather have black. Call me a purist.
    /M-TP240/MM+Luxious trinity(24:35:50) + 75 2.0 APO ASPH Cron + Nikon D3X/D700, 58 1.2 noct, 28 1.4d,200VR + Zeiss 35/50/100 + 135mm 2.0 DC, 17-35/24-70/70-200VRII, Einstein studio...
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Special Editions like this means a new model is coming soon, perhaps one based on the M240.
    I hope not.
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Special Editions like this means a new model is coming soon, perhaps one based on the M240.
    I hope finally!
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Special Editions like this means a new model is coming soon, perhaps one based on the M240.
    That would be nice if it has an integrated EVF. ISO51200 (or even higher!) is very doable with the M10's CMOS sensor if the M9's CCD is taken as a guide. The very high ISO and an integrated EVF makes sense since the OVF can not be used reliably under those conditions.

    However, a listing of a real camera is very unlikely for another 18months. So, an A7R monochrome will have to do, loud shutter and all.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    As long as my Monochrom works I have no intent to upgrade, but I read about special editions of the MM and how this usually signifies the fall off in general sales, leading to the use of artificial stimulants to move the stock out. True or not (probably not, at least as yet, since it seems Leica is only just keeping up with demand for the plain old MM), perhaps we should be getting word out to Leica as to what we would love to see in the next generation Monochrom, even if it has to be based on the CMOS sensor. The M240 has capabilities well beyond those of the M9, and some are quite new to the Leica community. Assuming Monochrom users as a subset have different characteristics, and I suspect they are less likely to want the new bells and whistles, it might be interesting to see which of the M240 features ought to be on the CMOS Monochrom in a year or two. Someone who understands the forum software better than I do should post up a poll roughly like this:

    Do you think the CMOS-based Monochrom of the future should include:

    1. Movie capability

    2. Live View

    3. An available EVF

    4. A rear LCD

    It would be helpful to Leica if, for example, they discovered only 2% of Monochrom users intended to touch the movie button deliberately and the other 98% would have shots ruined by touching it accidentally.

    Chris

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by chrism View Post
    As long as my Monochrom works I have no intent to upgrade, but I read about special editions of the MM and how this usually signifies the fall off in general sales, leading to the use of artificial stimulants to move the stock out. True or not (probably not, at least as yet, since it seems Leica is only just keeping up with demand for the plain old MM), perhaps we should be getting word out to Leica as to what we would love to see in the next generation Monochrom, even if it has to be based on the CMOS sensor. The M240 has capabilities well beyond those of the M9, and some are quite new to the Leica community. Assuming Monochrom users as a subset have different characteristics, and I suspect they are less likely to want the new bells and whistles, it might be interesting to see which of the M240 features ought to be on the CMOS Monochrom in a year or two. Someone who understands the forum software better than I do should post up a poll roughly like this:

    Do you think the CMOS-based Monochrom of the future should include:

    1. Movie capability

    2. Live View

    3. An available EVF

    4. A rear LCD

    It would be helpful to Leica if, for example, they discovered only 2% of Monochrom users intended to touch the movie button deliberately and the other 98% would have shots ruined by touching it accidentally.

    Chris

    I agree Chris that there is no need to "upgrade".

    I would like Live view and an integrated EVF, definitely, yes! Most likely, this will not happen with a Leica but with a next gen Sony A something with global shutter that I will convert to a monochrome to use. Until then the MM will be used.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    All that I want from the M240 in a new Monochrom are the new frame lines and better rear LCD.

    That said, even if Leica gave us exactly that, I still wouldn't buy it as my current Monochrom will last me until it dies or is no longer compatible with anything. I just might buy a second MM, especially if they release a non-LE chrome one or better yet, black paint over brass.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Hey, I'm just trying to win the lottery so I can get my first one, never mind having two...LOL!

    Heck I'd even take a Leica ME colored one at this point...but no doubt that chrome one is sure sexy.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    The reason I think the MM is so sweet is *exactly* because it's based on the M9 platform.

    I don't want an "MM240" anymore than I want an M240.

    On that note, I'm picking mine up in the next couple of weeks when I'm in Germany...
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    I'd love to see a M240-MM. The M240 seems to be such an advancement from the previous M9. I can't imagine how nice a MM version of it would be.

    EVF, better LCD, faster electronics, better framelines and RF, weather sealed, longer battery life, it just goes on and on... better high ISO, DR, MP... and you get a movie-mode thrown in whether you use it or not.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    But you lose the most important thing of all, that high quality CCD sensor that gives such AMAZING images.

    I can't believe you said better high ISO. Are you kidding me, the MM has max ISO of 10,000! It is amazing ISO.

    They might be able to get a new one right, maybe. But they do have their work cut out for them...to compare to what we have today.

    Oh, the MM is back to back ordered at BH, so nevermind about what I said about it being in stock, that has now changed.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    I'd love to see a M240-MM. The M240 seems to be such an advancement from the previous M9. I can't imagine how nice a MM version of it would be.

    EVF, better LCD, faster electronics, better framelines and RF, weather sealed, longer battery life, it just goes on and on... better high ISO, DR, MP... and you get a movie-mode thrown in whether you use it or not.
    "meh."

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Photojazz View Post
    But you lose the most important thing of all, that high quality CCD sensor that gives such AMAZING images.

    I can't believe you said better high ISO. Are you kidding me, the MM has max ISO of 10,000! It is amazing ISO.

    They might be able to get a new one right, maybe. But they do have their work cut out for them...to compare to what we have today.

    Oh, the MM is back to back ordered at BH, so nevermind about what I said about it being in stock, that has now changed.
    High quality CCD sensor, yes. But, better sensors are being made like the M240. More of an urban-photography legend probably perpetuated by those that own it... simple rationalization, IMHO.

    Sure, high ISO is always a consideration. It allows for more degrees of freedom in selection of slower lenses and faster shutter speeds, for example.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    "meh."
    That's what makes a horse race. Not everyone is impressed with advancements in technology when it comes to Leica cameras. Many, want things to remain the same in this market and I am keenly aware of this group. I don't expect everyone to share my opinion.

    But, I could be happy with any of these great cameras.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    That's what makes a horse race. Not everyone is impressed with advancements in technology when it comes to Leica cameras. Many, want things to remain the same in this market and I am keenly aware of this group. I don't expect everyone to share my opinion.

    But, I could be happy with any of these great cameras.
    Of course... Definitely a case of YMMV. What some people want is not necessarily the same as what other people want.

    Personally, I highly value the sheer and utter simplicity that lies at the heart of the M (pre-M240). All the whizz-bang features like the EVF, movie mode, etc. are none of what I want. I went back to RFs precisely for that reason... And why I've kept my M9 (and buying an MM to match). I'm not saying the M9 is perfect (e.g. shutter sound, battery life, high-ISO) but I can live with it for any foreseeable future.

    Leica can never keep up in the arms race with Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc. and I think trying to will only water down the M with features that I suspect most M shooters don't really want or need. If you're trying to buy ONE body that "does it all" perhaps. I'm a strong believer in the right tool for the job. Which is why I still have Canon and Hassy gear. I don't want to shoot macro with my M. Or sports. Or, well, movies for that matter.
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Exactly DN. I don't know what Leica was thinking slapping a little video button right next to the shutter release button. I really don't. For my usage, they could have saved that feature entirely, the development cost, and the production costs. I do think live view has functionality, for framing. But video? Nah!

    Auni, I own both M9 and M, and I am aware of gains in some areas. But also image quality is set back in other areas. It wasn't all gain.

    There were things that were better before they changed them. That's just how it is. The new M was a leap forward in many areas though, that's true. But the CCD had some image qualities about it, that the new M just doesn't touch.
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Photojazz View Post
    Exactly DN. I don't know what Leica was thinking slapping a little video button right next to the shutter release button. I really don't. For my usage, they could have saved that feature entirely, the development cost, and the production costs. I do think live view has functionality, for framing. But video? Nah!

    Auni, I own both M9 and M, and I am aware of gains in some areas. But also image quality is set back in other areas. It wasn't all gain.

    There were things that were better before they changed them. That's just how it is. The new M was a leap forward in many areas though, that's true. But the CCD had some image qualities about it, that the new M just doesn't touch.
    I would have to disagree with all of this. The button on the top seems well placed. LV is going to help with framing. The framelines of the M9 were a step backwards. The M240 lines are illuminated and not only would that make them easier to see they are also more accurate for most users at the distances they shoot at.

    I see no value in the older CCD sensor used on the M9. Improvements in color are only subjective. I can take any M240 image I've seen and PP it, for all intents and purposes, to be indistinguishable from the M9 by the viewer, but I can not say the reverse. "That" is just how it is. The sensor in the M240 is measurably better than the M9.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    As far as LV goes; I would agree - that's a nice thing to have. First, so you can frame precisely, and secondly, not resorting to external (E)VFs (which I'm admittedly not a big fan of). But then, staring at the back of the camera isn't really my "thing" either...

    As for the sensor... That's very much debatable. I get output from the M9 and Hasselblad CFV CCD sensors that I have yet to see come from anything CMOS-based. And that's right out of the camera. Sure, you can PP to resemble it, but some of that involves interpolation. Not the same.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    As far as LV goes; I would agree - that's a nice thing to have. First, so you can frame precisely, and secondly, not resorting to external (E)VFs (which I'm admittedly not a big fan of). But then, staring at the back of the camera isn't really my "thing" either...

    As for the sensor... That's very much debatable. I get output from the M9 and Hasselblad CFV CCD sensors that I have yet to see come from anything CMOS-based. And that's right out of the camera. Sure, you can PP to resemble it, but some of that involves interpolation. Not the same.
    Thank you for your very civil reply. I have tens of thousands of CCD images from M8-M9 taken over six years, and I certainly prefer the images from my M240 which I've had since early April. I have over 10,000 images from the new M240 and just find the files better in many ways and the images more pleasing.

    I have read several here and on other forums who see a difference and prefer the M9... I guess my eyes aren't able to appreciate or understand what it is you prefer.

    Again, I do like the M9 images I have taken and consider overall improvements in the M240 images as minor and more to do with the M240 images files being more adjustable in PP.

    And, for the record, the black MM is sexy.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    No worries. The takeaway is simply - it's very much a personal thing.

    I think you said it best earlier; "...I could be happy with any of these great cameras."

    You're so right.

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    Senior Member MaxKi▀ler's Avatar
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    I'd like to chime in here. First of all, I don't own an M and probably won't for quite some time. This is mainly because of two reasons:
    a) I'm a photography student and as such I've already spent too much money on far too expensive camera gear.
    b) I don't like it. I've tested the new M several times and apart from the fact that I couldn't afford it anyway, even if I wanted, it felt much too digital (in a negative way). There was nothing special about it anyhow. It is just like most other digital cameras and the files look and feel accordingly. With the M9 the files are a little bit like digital medium format. It's a different kind of quality you get. Neither better nor worse, just different and more to my liking.

    Apart from that: What I really like about the Monochrom and M9 is that it's basically an M7 with a sensor in it. I use the M9's crappy screen to change settings but whenever I'm taking a picture it remains off. I don't need to see on a screen what I've just captured (sounds cheesy but true: I just saw that seconds ago in the viewfinder!). Sometimes fewer is more. And I think that's one of the reasons why the Monochrom is so popular.

    Perhaps one can objectively measure the quality of a sensor but either I connot see the benefits or I value different criteria more than what is being measured.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKi▀ler View Post
    I don't need to see on a screen what I've just captured (sounds cheesy but true: I just saw that seconds ago in the viewfinder!).
    That is the way a lot of digital cameras work and surprisingly, a lot people shoot that way (without "auto review") as well!

    No, that isn't the salient feature of the MM.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Well, you didn't hear a negative really out of me, except for that video button. I have heard people say they can get files to look nearly indistinguishable from M240 to M9. That may well be true. I haven't had that much success all the time. But again, I have not shot my M that much yet. I haven't even had it very long. But I do hate the video button. I don't want to think I could be filling up my SD card, and draining my battery by accidentally pressing that button sometime. I tried a video once, I couldn't even get it to play, go figure, right? Must be operator error. lol.

    Double Neg, I do appreciate what you are saying about live view use. I tried using it for focus on the M, and it didn't work real well for a 80 Lux R lens. Since I do not want a big honkin viewfinder on my camera, I am opting to sell the R. It has a certain signature about it, it is nice glass. But I am going to stick with M glass for my M collection, and stick with Nikon and Zeiss for my Nikons. I actually bought the R lens for Nikon conversion, but in the end, I just don't think it's that meaningful for me to keep it. I'd rather just have a nice 85 1.4 Nikon lens with AF, and keep it simple. That is good glass anyway on that side. On M side, I have a 75 Cron, other than losing a bit of speed, I don't lose anything else, except a bit of that Leica dreamy look. Well, yeah, there is that. The newer lenses are much more clinical in their presentation, but that adds up to image depth, and clarity. Good for the digital world.

    We all have to draw lines somewhere, unless we are loaded, which I am not.

    I am not much of a chimper either Max. But occasionally I do check review just to make sure my ISO was set to my liking. If it's an important shot, I want all the data I can collect to make a decision if I got a good shot or not.
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    That is the way a lot of digital cameras work and surprisingly, a lot people shoot that way (without "auto review") as well!

    No, that isn't the salient feature of the MM.
    I said this because even if I wanted to check my shots, the M9's screen is not of much use anyway. Not only because it's resolution is so low but because even the histogram isn't very accurate. So I was merely saying I'm grateful that there even is a screen on the back of the M9.
    A great rear LCD is a nice to have feature but not a necessity IMO.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    That's my feeling as well, re:LCD. There's so much latitude in the DNG files that "close enough" is just that. As long as the highlights aren't (too) blown, I'm good. I chimp occasionally - mostly exposure - but rarely zoom in, etc. Mostly just for setting ISO or profiles.

    Maybe I'm just lucky, but I very rarely miss focus, even with the Noctilux. I owe a large part of that to Walter's Leica Eyepiece. It corrects my aging eye perfectly to the RF. I guess it also confirms that my gear is within spec...

    Quote Originally Posted by Photojazz View Post
    ...Double Neg, I do appreciate what you are saying about live view use. I tried using it for focus on the M, and it didn't work real well for a 80 Lux R lens. Since I do not want a big honkin viewfinder on my camera, I am opting to sell the R. It has a certain signature about it, it is nice glass. But I am going to stick with M glass for my M collection, and stick with Nikon and Zeiss for my Nikons. I actually bought the R lens for Nikon conversion, but in the end, I just don't think it's that meaningful for me to keep it. I'd rather just have a nice 85 1.4 Nikon lens with AF, and keep it simple. That is good glass anyway on that side. On M side, I have a 75 Cron, other than losing a bit of speed, I don't lose anything else, except a bit of that Leica dreamy look. Well, yeah, there is that. The newer lenses are much more clinical in their presentation, but that adds up to image depth, and clarity. Good for the digital world...
    That's too bad that it didn't work out; that certainly is a nice lens. But I agree with you on the conversion, and that's my philosophy in general as well. I toyed with the notion of getting something like the Fuji X-Pro1 or Sony A7R and adapting, but it's always... Weird. Let the tool do what it's good at; AF, zooms, flash, etc. So yeah, I'm sticking with M lenses also. I don't have any R lenses, as nice as they are... Too expensive now, need an adapter, plus an EVF for the most flexibility... Probably a grip would help to hold it all. By the time this Frankenbeast is done - I might as well just use the DSLR!

    Naw, I like my gear really simple these days. Which explains why I shoot my Ms and Hassy gear the most. A large part of it has to do with the fact that I can't SEE the damn knobs, menus, dials and what-nots. I don't shoot with glasses. Maybe I'm a curmudgeon, maybe I'm jaded or just plain ol' set in my ways. But the beauty of the basic M, to me, is being able to use it practically blindfolded. The features reside in my brain - not the camera.
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Well said. Actually, I bought the R a couple of years ago, so I got it before things escalated to the levels they are today. At least I got my money out of it, maybe plus a little. I honestly do not remember what I paid for the lens. That's bad I guess, but it is true. I do know it wasn't cheap even 2 years ago. Well, it was a nice lens, a real hunk of lead to carry though. Heavy glass.

    I was thinking about the A7R too. If I could have got an adapter now, I might have went for it, but right now adapters are sold out, lenses have not been shipped yet, except for one 24mm Zeiss, to me, it's just to early to jump in on that camera. With an M and Nikon adapter, maybe. Otherwise, it's just a paperweight until glass is introduced. I wasn't interested in a 2300.00 paperweight right now and I am really not interested in spending on a 3rd type of glass...

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    Let the tool do what it's good at; AF, zooms, flash, etc.
    My tool is superb with a Canon 50/0.95, even better than the MM with that lens. It is great with the M Rokkors (all of them) as well. Absolutely no AF or zoomz.

    FWIW, I find the Leica flash SF something far more useful than any other (Nikon, Sony, etc). It even has settings for the Noct!

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    "I don't like it. I've tested the new M several times and apart from the fact that I couldn't afford it anyway, even if I wanted, it felt much too digital (in a negative way)."

    the word fragment "too digital." what does that even mean? how do you quantify something as "too digital?"
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    In my experience with my M, if you set it up the right way and don't use live view or the EVF, it's almost identical in use to the M9, except that it produces much better files and does so at much higher ISO levels if desired. I can also take any M file and get results equal to or better than the Monochrom files I took for a while. Yes, it requires a few more steps, but they're easy ones.

    The only drawback I have experienced with the M is that it grew fatter by a few millimeters and I like thinner cameras - it's too bad they couldn't make it M6-thin.

    I said good riddance to the miserable LCD on the M9, the small batteries and the terrible high ISO performance and never looked back.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    ...I can also take any M file and get results equal to or better than the Monochrom files I took for a while. Yes, it requires a few more steps, but they're easy ones...
    Brad, can you expand on that a little? Are you saying the MM is no longer "all that?"

    I find it hard to believe that the M can do "clean" ISO 5,000+ like the MM. And even with its 24MP sensor - does it really compare to the MM's acuity, etc.

    I'm just curious, as I'm getting an MM.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    The MM is a special camera and quite pure in use, but the M240 is capable of clean shots at ISO 5000 and beyond. I owned both for a time and aside from not needing the few extra steps in Lightroom and SilverEfex, the Monochrom became a shelf queen while the M240 did everything asked of it. There were many shooting times when I only had the Monochrom with me that I wished I had the option of color.

    The Monochrom is a wonderful tool that produces fantastic images. But the M240 just eclipses it. I wish I still had a Monochrom around so I could take side by side images and show you what I mean.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Interesting... Thanks for the reply.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by bubuli View Post
    "I don't like it. I've tested the new M several times and apart from the fact that I couldn't afford it anyway, even if I wanted, it felt much too digital (in a negative way)."

    the word fragment "too digital." what does that even mean? how do you quantify something as "too digital?"
    With the term "too digital" I meant the new M is full of an abundance of features and is IMO to a certain degree neglecting one of its core values: simplicity.
    I'm under the impression that it's trying to be a "one for all" kind of camera and by trying to please everyone, it fails to please me. The reason I chose the M system was because I did not want to have tons of features that I never use and which now seem to compromise the cameras design. For instance, what I dislike most is the movie mode: A new button next to the shutter release and four stupid holes on top for rain and dust to creep in. And it's sad that features like the frameline preview lever were condemned and that the frameline illumination only works with a battery etc. etc. All of this contributes to what feels to me "too digital".

    Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that Leica is constantly trying to improve their M system. There were a lot of great improvements being made. And if this new camera speaks to a lot of potentially new customers it's great. In fact when I first heard about it on the day they presented that video I was really excited. It just faded away when I first shot it...


    I know I'll get bashed for this and probably deserve it, but I feel like the new M is (at least by my standards) more of a consumer product than aiming to be a prefessional's camera.


    Furthermore, I was wrong and would like to stand corrected: The M9 is (not like an M7 probably) more like shooting with a Hexar RF without needing to scan film. So this camera feels a little less digital.
    Anyway, if I was exclusively photographing for the fun of it, I'd probably get myself either an M6 or MP depending on my budget...

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Hi Max, thanks for the clarification. FYI - I never press the movie button by mistake on my M. I just forget it's even there. The M240 is the first weather sealed digital M, so don't worry about the little holes.
    Brad Husick

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    Senior Member MaxKi▀ler's Avatar
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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Hi Max, thanks for the clarification. FYI - I never press the movie button by mistake on my M. I just forget it's even there. The M240 is the first weather sealed digital M, so don't worry about the little holes.
    Thanks, good to know. If I'd own one I'd probably use black tape and just let them disappear...

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    hi Max

    thanks for the clarification. from the way you originally wrote, it seems that you're alluding to the M240 *files* to be "too digital" since you compared M9 files to "medium format digital"...which i don't agree with either (having owned an M9 for a year) but i'm digressing. :-)

    i'm not a fan of the new additional features of the M240 either (i have yet to press the "movie" button just out of spite) but to be honest, the new features never got in the way and i find it quite odd for anyone to complain about them. for example, i'd be pissed if Leica puts EVF in the RF window itself...but thankfully they didn't do that.

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKi▀ler View Post
    With the term "too digital" I meant the new M is full of an abundance of features and is IMO to a certain degree neglecting one of its core values: simplicity.
    I'm under the impression that it's trying to be a "one for all" kind of camera and by trying to please everyone, it fails to please me. The reason I chose the M system was because I did not want to have tons of features that I never use and which now seem to compromise the cameras design. For instance, what I dislike most is the movie mode: A new button next to the shutter release and four stupid holes on top for rain and dust to creep in. And it's sad that features like the frameline preview lever were condemned and that the frameline illumination only works with a battery etc. etc. All of this contributes to what feels to me "too digital".

    Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that Leica is constantly trying to improve their M system. There were a lot of great improvements being made. And if this new camera speaks to a lot of potentially new customers it's great. In fact when I first heard about it on the day they presented that video I was really excited. It just faded away when I first shot it...


    I know I'll get bashed for this and probably deserve it, but I feel like the new M is (at least by my standards) more of a consumer product than aiming to be a prefessional's camera.
    ...

    I was afraid the M would not have that simplicity which I liked with the M6/M8/M9ůbut after using it for some weeks I do find it just as simple, maybe even simpler because it handles faster, has a better display and a more discrete shutter plus more reliable battery. I don't use the EVF by the way.
    Tom

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    High quality CCD sensor, yes. But, better sensors are being made like the M240. More of an urban-photography legend probably perpetuated by those that own it... simple rationalization, IMHO.

    Sure, high ISO is always a consideration. It allows for more degrees of freedom in selection of slower lenses and faster shutter speeds, for example.
    There is a different look to CCD and CMOS. Neither is better, they are different. Within those categories there are sensors that have a better look than others.

    The M Monochrom sensor is such a sensor, as is the sensor used in the Nikon D4 and now Df. A CMOS Monochrom would likely have even better high ISO noise performance than the current CCD Monochrom which is an evolution of of the 4-year-old M9 sensor, itself known for the very pleasing look to the images it records.

    A CMOS Monochrom would benefit just as the CCD monochrome has from the lack of bayer array, and it would benefit as the M240 does from live view, movie recording (if Leica enabled it) and the like. Still, just as many M9 photographers prefer their images to those from the M240 (and likely just as many or more M240 users prefer theirs to the M9), so too would a CMOS Monochrom produce a different look than the current CCD Monochrom.

    What would I like to see? A CCD Monochrom with the weather sealed body, better frame lines and improved LCD of the M240, but without the CMOS sensor.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    I can also take any M file and get results equal to or better than the Monochrom files I took for a while.
    BS.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by asiafish View Post
    BS.
    Huh? Why would I lie about this? I owned both cameras. Perhaps our levels of software skills are different.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    For what its worth, I'd love to own an M240, and have borrowed one a few times. It is a very nice camera, but try as I may, I could not get it to equal the results of the M Monochrom in any LR or Silver Efex conversion. It does produce a nice B&W conversion, but so does my Leica X2 and Canon 6D. The M Monochrom is simply on a whole other level when it comes to black and white.

    If you aren't getting better B&W quality out of the Monochrom then you are either blowing highlights (easy to do, ALWAYS underexpose as the shadows are infinite) and/or you haven't discovered the joys of colored filters in front of your lenses. Colored filters unlike color filter effects in LR (which don't work on MM files) do not take any information out of the file.

    The MM also responds very well to vintage or less than stellar lenses. My favorite lens on the MM is an uncoated 1937 Carl Zeiss Sonnar 5cm f/1.5 which is a lower contrast lens than anything made today. On the Monochrom it is simply magical. The images below were taken at ISO 5000 for the indoor shots and ISO 320 for the outdoor, with a yellow filter in front of the 1937 Sonnar. Minimal post. Please excuse the dusty sensor.


    L1001067-Edit by Lawman1967, on Flickr


    L1001090-Edit.jpg by Lawman1967, on Flickr


    L1001149-Edit.jpg by Lawman1967, on Flickr
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Huh? Why would I lie about this? I owned both cameras. Perhaps our levels of software skills are different.
    My guess is either you didn't use colored filters on your lenses (which the MM really needs) or otherwise didn't shoot to the advantages of that camera. Shot like a normal digital the results are flat and underwhelming, but shot like black and white film it is spectacular.

    I don't think you were lying, but I also don't believe that converted M240 images come close to native MM files.
    Last edited by asiafish; 17th December 2013 at 16:16.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Nice images. I still stand by my comments so we will simply disagree.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    Did you use color filters in front of your lenses? Without them, M Monochrom files tend to be very flat. Ditto the M Monochrom does much better with lower contrast glass. It is a finicky beast, but worth the effort.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: Special edition Monochrom is SEXY

    I chose not to use colored filters as it doesn't fit my workflow. I do use Lightroom and SilverEfex with aplomb and like the results. I have used the MM with vintage lenses and do like the results. It was simply not better than the M240 enough to justify a $7995 investment in the MM in addition to the M240.
    Brad Husick
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