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Thread: Interesting article for Leica fans

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    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
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    Interesting article for Leica fans

    Came across this experience of a using Leitz glass on a Sony A7r vs Leitz on an M.

    Enjoy!

    Review: using Leica M lenses on the 36MP Sony A7r mirrorless camera | Leica News & Rumors
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Its a decent article, but has a characteristic Leica-centric angle when evaluating the A7/A7R system in general terms. I'm not remotely buying his high ISO triumph for Leica. Additionally, once in post, the Sony files are astonishing. But as always, people will see what they want to see.

    He mentions the heavy and bulky Zeiss lenses, which is also untrue on the weight front. Even casual comparison of weight specs reveals the Zeiss lenses to be comparable or lighter. The 35 Sonnar FE is light as a feather - lighter than ANY Leica M lens and the 55 1.8 is in the same ballpark as the 50 lux asph, with 1/2 a stop given up in return for AF.

    Back on the central topic, I agree: Leica lenses perform better on Leica cameras than Sony cameras (which is no surprise). If you shoot in B&W, though, it gets much closer.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    The truth is Leica is just a status. Or like wine: Always some neologisms, exotic tems to describe the invisible.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    The truth is Leica is just a status. Or like wine: Always some neologisms, exotic tems to describe the invisible.
    I'll slit my wrists now.
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    I had a chance to use Guy's A7 and A7r with a wide selection of M glass (thanks to Woody) on our Yosemite workshop last week. My net take is this: Leica should be 1) worried about it's own body sales and 2) grateful for the bump in sales of M glass it is likely to see because of the A7. I personally exited the M system because my failing eyes -- stigmatism -- could not reliably crisp the RF any more and that led to an unacceptable percentage of focus misses. The focus peaking on the A7 is a dream for MF lenses of any sort, and works well.

    A7 or A7r? Simple answer is the A7 is the better choice IMHO for regular use as a replacement to the Leica body -- quieter and more responsive shutter than the A7r and less optical anomalies with short lenses than the A7r; Woody's 18 SEM worked perfectly well on the A7. Add that compared to Leica M bodies it is inexpensive enough you can afford to dedicate and tune a body to each M lens you own, no more concerns about dust or cam settings when you grab a favorite lens...

    Real question is am I tempted? Admittedly yes... I'm just not motivated to re-invest in M glass for a 4th term. But I can see the wonderful possibilities of an 18 SEM, 28 Cron, 50 Lux (just LOVE the look, but could possibly be swayed to move to the Cron Asph) and maybe a 75 Cron or 90 Elmarit with a pair of A7's as a really svelt street and travel kit.

    Nit. EVF's are not as great as the real-time M finder window. But IMHO the exactness and ease of focus peaking more than makes up for it -- YMMV.

    PS: The A7's also show the extreme difficulty in using a Noct. Even with focus peaking insuring perfect focus, it's clear that at relative people distances one cannot hold themselves steady enough to stay within the half-mm of exact PoF. Sure, you can stop down to f2 and have enough extra DoF to be fine, but then why pay the 3x premium for f0.95?
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Let me add here although love to hook up some M lenses to my A 7and A7r system as I think the Sony is far better as a body but the cost of entry is just too large now. The Sony brings a serious option to Leica M users . In the old days I would love to have had the Sony around but buying back in is not a option and there are very viable options in other brands and mounts that may not have been around before. Sorry Leica fans but I would think long and hard. After trying about 10 lenses on the Sony it really is a tough call on a M240.
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Guy, did you have time yet to test the S? I think back in october/november you mentioned Leica was going to lend you one for field testing?

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    I far prefer a rangefinder. Nice to have choices. I'm hoping Leica comes out with an M-E with the new sensor. Mostly manual body, no video, low or no FPS, little to no automation.

    I hope Leica is reading this. And I know I am not alone.

    Love my MM btw....
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    I barely used it but some participants did . The 30-90 in my mind is the main reason to jump in. That is one awesome lens.

    I just did not get enough time to really test it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Let me add here although love to hook up some M lenses to my A 7and A7r system as I think the Sony is far better as a body but the cost of entry is just too large now. The Sony brings a serious option to Leica M users . In the old days I would love to have had the Sony around but buying back in is not a option and there are very viable options in other brands and mounts that may not have been around before. Sorry Leica fans but I would think long and hard. After trying about 10 lenses on the Sony it really is a tough call on a M240.
    Hi there Guy
    That's why I bought the A7r, I tested with

    WATE, 24 elmar, 28 ' cron Asph, 35 FLE, 50 Lux, .95 Noctilux, 75'cron, 90 elmarit M and 135 APO Telyt.

    There were smeary corners with lenses wider than 50mm (except the WATE which was fine), together with some tricky (but usually correctable) colour shifts. The 28 ' cron in particular is unusable (IMHO)

    I now have an A7, which does better, but (again IMHO) doesn't produce as good results as the M240 with ANY of the lenses.

    I really like the A7, and if Sony can tame the shutter of the A7r with firmware I'll get another one (otherwise I'll wait for the A8), but I've learned my lesson, I'll stick to using these great cameras with native lenses and SLR lenses with adapters. I just don't think they cut it with 3rd party rangefinder lenses.

    I also find it odd to be considering an M body as an alternative to an A7, the mode of operation is so radically different. If you like using an EVF why would you buy an M now the A7 is here? If you like using a rangefinder then the M240 is the only act in town. Personally I like both (for different things).

    All the best

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    I guess given some comments its time to think out of the box. I won't mention names but comments like I m selling my S system keep my M glass and get a couple Sonys gives a pause to me. Someone and others are digesting this whole mix and match scenario and I think folks should. Now this may not be the model and next gen on the Sony maybe better but I did this thinking against my Nikons and yes I am crazy but I am pretty calculating switching on systems and pulled the trigger. So far it's been a good decision and folks need to think long and hard on the choices which thank god we have. I like options but I agree if you have a fix on rangefinder style than Leica owns that market but Sony is looking to own mirrorless and put a smack down on DSLR and that's very compelling.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The 30-90 in my mind is the main reason to jump in. That is one awesome lens.
    Hi Guy, could you please elaborate a bit on your findings with this lens? I bought into the S system last year and I'm seriously thinking about this zoom because of it's versatility.

    I value your opinion and would like to hear your thoughts.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    I bought into Leica expecting to at best tolerate the rangefinder safe in the knowledge that with the M I also had liveview on LCD and EVF. The reality was I fell in love with a rangefinder.

    Wides in the range 18mm to 24mm are very important to me and with the M240 I have a full range of exceptional lenses to choose from, but given the issues I'm struggling to think of a single lens I'd want to put on the Sonys.

    I've been making images for 50+ years and can't remember a time when I've ever had more fun with a camera in my hand.
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I guess given some comments its time to think out of the box. I won't mention names but comments like I m selling my S system keep my M glass and get a couple Sonys gives a pause to me.
    It really depends what you're shooting Guy (but you know this) - if you want to shoot landscape in english weather, with wide angle lenses sharp to the corner, then I can promise you, the Sony kit lens is much better than a 28 summicron at around 1/10th of the price. If you're shooting portrait, wedding and event, where the corners are not often of much importance, then, fine - stick those M lenses on your Sony - you won't be disappointed.

    After my testing, the idea that an A7 or A7r with M lenses will give you results equivalent to an S system (or any other MF kit) makes my mind boggle, but people will see what they want to see won't they!

    Stick a Zeiss Otis on an A7r, or one of the great Leica R lenses and that's quite a different issue.
    Last edited by jonoslack; 25th January 2014 at 12:21.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I bought into Leica expecting to at best tolerate the rangefinder safe in the knowledge that with the M I also had liveview on LCD and EVF. The reality was I fell in love with a rangefinder.

    Wides in the range 18mm to 24mm are very important to me and with the M240 I have a full range of exceptional lenses to choose from, but given the issues I'm struggling to think of a single lens I'd want to put on the Sonys.

    I've been making images for 50+ years and can't remember a time when I've ever had more fun with a camera in my hand.
    I haven't liked a camera as much as my MM as when I bought my 500 C/Ms in the mid 1980s.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    A very timely thread for me.

    Evaluating the merits of all the choices is so personal that it is near impossible to be definitive. As Guy says, it's great that we have so many choices

    Whether one is a recent convert evangelizing on the joys of a rangefinder like Keith, or long time addict like Jono or myself … Leica owns the rangefinder way of seeing … unless you have "seeing" issues like Jack (I also almost had to bail on Ms before cataract surgery corrected my problem, and astigmatism along with it).

    If, like Jack, I had bailed on Ms, I would not have bought back into expensive M lenses just because the A7/A7R came along. There are just to many other great choices these days. But I didn't, and kept it all which allowed exploration beyond only a M solution.

    My personal evaluation of how the Sony A7R fits into the array of my gear bag:

    Despite 36 meg resolution, the A7R is not a replacement for my S2 kit. The S2 sits comfortably at the top of my IQ list by a good margin. Likewise, extensive testing of the M240 served only to show just how good the S2 really is. Since ALL of my S mount lenses are CS versions, comparisons are moot anyway.

    The A7R is not a replacement for my Leica Monochrome. The whole rangefinder aspect aside, even 36 meg B&W conversions can't equal the presence of the 18 meg B&Ws from the Leica. Dedication matters.

    The A7R is not a replacement for the Sony A99. The A7/A7R doesn't have IBIS, doesn't have dual card slots, doesn't have the versatile LCD, and is ill suited for work with a speed-light.

    IMO, the A7/A7R need not be compared to anything.

    It exists in my bag for one reason: size.

    It says in my bag for one reason: size.

    It goes with me often for one reason: size.

    Size without giving up excellent IQ. Size while delivering low light performance. Size that allows use of small native AF lenses, plus many other smallish lenses. Size that doesn't hog space in the A mount bag when serving as a side-kick for available light work beyond the A99's ability.

    In some areas it stands on its own, and while it cannot replace any of my various kit, it oddly can serve as back-up to all of them … not bad for the price IMO.

    - Marc
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    IMO many reviews/articles etc. focus too much on technical IQ and forget handling.
    If you look at the images the differences are not all that obvious...but using an EVF vs an optical finder and other things like this can make a huge difference for the photographer.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Call me a stick in the mud, but I tried the A7 and just can't stand the viewfinder.
    There is nothing more disturbing than shooting while a near-burned out sky is bright pink in the viewfinder.
    Almost every adapter I have looked at seems to suffer from one inconvenience or another or at best extreme sample variation.
    Adding another plumbing joint to the mix surely does not help lens alignment.
    Everything about camera selection is driven by personal preferences, but the A7 just doesn't cut it for me.
    My minimum requirements include an optical viewfinder, or one a couple generations ahead of Sony's, Yes, it would be cool if the focus-peeking stuff could be superimposed on the optical finder or maybe some sort of hybrid approach like the x100 but right now I think you need to love it for what it is and discount the adapter-city approach to lens interchangeability.
    Some love it.
    I cannot stand it.
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Call me a stick in the mud, but I tried the A7 and just can't stand the viewfinder.
    There is nothing more disturbing than shooting while a near-burned out sky is bright pink in the viewfinder.
    Almost every adapter I have looked at seems to suffer from one inconvenience or another or at best extreme sample variation.
    Adding another plumbing joint to the mix surely does not help lens alignment.
    Everything about camera selection is driven by personal preferences, but the A7 just doesn't cut it for me.
    My minimum requirements include an optical viewfinder, or one a couple generations ahead of Sony's, Yes, it would be cool if the focus-peeking stuff could be superimposed on the optical finder or maybe some sort of hybrid approach like the x100 but right now I think you need to love it for what it is and discount the adapter-city approach to lens interchangeability.
    Some love it.
    I cannot stand it.
    -bob
    Other than that Mrs. Lincoln … how did you like the play?

    Don't mince words Bob … tell us what you really think.
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    I like the SIZE of the A7r and I don' like the PRICE of the M240 - I don't SEE a better file from the M240 than I get from my M9. My MM is the most satisfying camera I own.

    I can't use focus peeking to shoot wide open with my Noctilux and nail a person's eyes every time - I own a lot of fast Leica glass to shoot wide open - so the M9 and MM are my go to choices for now a far as serious rangefinder work goes.

    I like being able to use Leica glass on the Sony - but I will buy the Sony 24-70FE lens to pretty much stay glued on the A7r - because the Sony SIZE for RESOLUTION equation is huge winner.

    All that has changed for me is the price of entry into larger prints ha come down to reality. The Leica/Nikon systems I run - still can't do what my Artec and Alpa gear does as far as tripod work goes. I don't expect this to change - ever. I am glad I stopped upgrading MF digi backs at 40 megapixels.

    I won't be buying into MF CMOS either - CMOS files all look the same - from every manufacturer out there- they are all the same - no pop straight out of camera.
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I like the SIZE of the A7r and I don' like the PRICE of the M240 - I don't SEE a better file from the M240 than I get from my M9. My MM is the most satisfying camera I own.

    I can't use focus peeking to shoot wide open with my Noctilux and nail a person's eyes every time - I own a lot of fast Leica glass to shoot wide open - so the M9 and MM are my go to choices for now a far as serious rangefinder work goes.

    I like being able to use Leica glass on the Sony - but I will buy the Sony 24-70FE lens to pretty much stay glued on the A7r - because the Sony SIZE for RESOLUTION equation is huge winner.

    All that has changed for me is the price of entry into larger prints ha come down to reality. The Leica/Nikon systems I run - still can't do what my Artec and Alpa gear does as far as tripod work goes. I don't expect this to change - ever. I am glad I stopped upgrading MF digi backs at 40 megapixels.

    I won't be buying into MF CMOS either - CMOS files all look the same - from every manufacturer out there- they are all the same - no pop straight out of camera.
    Peter, you have a way of summing it up directly

    I've come to a similar conclusion … in today's over-crowded camera market, with all sorts of cameras that meet a vast majority of needs, there is a new user skill that is required: The art of knowing when to stop.

    I should have stopped at my M9P which had the CCD mojo I feel is missing with anything else. The MM is also my most valued rangefinder ever.

    I did do a course correction and sold all of my Hasselblad H4D/60 gear, and now have "stopped" at the S2.

    The A7R is, as you say, likable due to the size and relatively reasonable price for what it is capable of.

    However, I process work from my gear and that of all the different second shooters and assistants I hire. Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and a few others … all CMOS, all homogenized in look and feel out of the camera.

    - Marc
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I bought into Leica expecting to at best tolerate the rangefinder safe in the knowledge that with the M I also had liveview on LCD and EVF. The reality was I fell in love with a rangefinder.
    HI There Keith
    I remember your anguish over the decision, and I'm REALLY PLEASED to hear that you've fallen in love with a rangefinder.
    I just get a little buzz every time I see that patch and the framelines which an EVF just doesn't do for me (good though they are these days). I also think that being able to 'see around' the subject is most important for composition.

    all the best

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    My camera buying decisions were essentially made for me. My requirement was compact and relatively lightweight bodies, full frame sensors, a complete range of lenses with an emphasis on super-wides and outstanding, glitch free image quality that could, when necessary, be framed with precision.

    What other choice was there?
    Last edited by KeithL; 26th January 2014 at 02:47.
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There Keith
    I remember your anguish over the decision, and I'm REALLY PLEASED to hear that you've fallen in love with a rangefinder.
    I just get a little buzz every time I see that patch and the framelines which an EVF just doesn't do for me (good though they are these days). I also think that being able to 'see around' the subject is most important for composition.

    all the best
    Hi Jono, yes, things turned out even better than I'd hoped!

    I love the rangefinder but also find the EVF very useful. Amongst the lenses I'm currently using is a 55mm f/2.8 Micro-Nikkor AIS, via adapter. I bought the lens in the early 80s and shot most of my stock with it over a period of many years. At the time it was considered to be amongst the sharpest lenses ever made by Nikon. Fast forward 30 years and I was unsure how it would behave on FF, high MP digital sensors but I needn't have worried, I'm simply blown away by the IQ.

    The M240 is just so versatile.

    Best

    Keith
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    I should perhaps add that my walk-around camera - where framing is less of an issue - is my M9-P which of course takes full advantage of being able to 'see around' the subject; certainly an advantage when used for this type of work.

    My M240 is mainly although not exclusively used as a tripod mounted camera via a RRS L-Bracket, typically using rangefinder for focus and EVF for framing.
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    CCD color is second to none -- at least at present.
    I do not agree that CCD monochrome is superior to CMOS monochrome; I see the best mono coming more as a function of total pixels available for conversion.
    Dedicated mono cams do give you more net mono pixels out of the gate than Bayer.
    MF cams of any build are heavy and big relative to most FF 35 DSLR.
    DSLR cams are faster to use and more convenient to carry.
    DSLR cams won't flash synch at more than 1/250th with studio strobes.
    Larger formats render an entirely different DoF signature than smaller ones, regardless of lens used -- an effect difficult to replicate with smaller formats.
    The Sony has taken FF 35 DSLR down to M4/3 sizes and portability while retaining a FF35 look -- and with about any lens.
    The smallest cams are saddled with EVF's; I still prefer TTL or direct VF's.
    Horses for courses.
    Bacon.
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    I spent 6 years with a M8, and aside for the UV/IR filters creating some problems when bright lights were in the image, I was extremely pleased with the results.
    I did test a few M9's but they never impressed me as being worth the trade up cost difference, for very little gain in IQ.

    I have a set of first class R lenses from my film days, so when the M240 came out it seemed like the time to go FF Leica digital.
    I must say I am still working on M240 skin tones, however the IQ is substantially higher than the M9's I tested, all my M lenses look fantastic on the new M.

    I have read as many reports as I can about the Sony's and realized the A7 was probably the best fit for my wide angle M lenses. I currently own a 24 Elmarit ASPH, a 28 Elmarit Ver 4, and a 35 Summilux ASPH.

    I recently tested the 28 Elmarit Ver 4 on a A7 and it was totally unusable, sharp only in the very centre of the image, and major smearing everywhere else even at 5.6. I have not tested my other wide angles because the 28 results were so disappointing.

    I received my Leica R to M adapter last week and the results with my 100 and 180 Apo's are first rate…..I am extremely impressed with the results, and of course they have lens specific in-camera corrections from the M240.
    Both lenses were shot tripod mounted using LV and focus peaking, that was easy to use and extremely accurate.

    Overall, I am very happy with my M and R lenses when used in conjunction with the M240.
    My very limited experience with the A7 was quite disappointing.
    This is obviously just my experience, but maybe it adds to the overall database of experience on how to best use Leica M and R lenses.

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    My fullframe options for Leica lenses:
    Monochrom (18mp, B&W only)
    M7 (~24mp with nikon 9000 scanner, swap-able color and b&w sensor : )
    M3 (same as m7)

    For cropped frame I use a GXR with M mount.

    I went from shooting B&W film and color digital to the opposite!
    While intrigued by the offerings, I'll be waiting until I use up a lot of film and/or the scanner quits...

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Seascape View Post
    I spent 6 years with a M8, and aside for the UV/IR filters creating some problems when bright lights were in the image, I was extremely pleased with the results.
    I did test a few M9's but they never impressed me as being worth the trade up cost difference, for very little gain in IQ.

    I have a set of first class R lenses from my film days, so when the M240 came out it seemed like the time to go FF Leica digital.
    I must say I am still working on M240 skin tones, however the IQ is substantially higher than the M9's I tested, all my M lenses look fantastic on the new M.

    I have read as many reports as I can about the Sony's and realized the A7 was probably the best fit for my wide angle M lenses. I currently own a 24 Elmarit ASPH, a 28 Elmarit Ver 4, and a 35 Summilux ASPH.

    I recently tested the 28 Elmarit Ver 4 on a A7 and it was totally unusable, sharp only in the very centre of the image, and major smearing everywhere else even at 5.6. I have not tested my other wide angles because the 28 results were so disappointing.

    I received my Leica R to M adapter last week and the results with my 100 and 180 Apo's are first rate…..I am extremely impressed with the results, and of course they have lens specific in-camera corrections from the M240.
    Both lenses were shot tripod mounted using LV and focus peaking, that was easy to use and extremely accurate.

    Overall, I am very happy with my M and R lenses when used in conjunction with the M240.
    My very limited experience with the A7 was quite disappointing.
    This is obviously just my experience, but maybe it adds to the overall database of experience on how to best use Leica M and R lenses.
    Unfortunately you picked the one lens in the Leica M line-up that is totally unusable. Of my 6 M lenses, 4 are great, 1 marginal depending on subject, and one unusable: the 28mm.

    Even with 4 Leica lenses working very well, I probably wouldn't have bought a Sony A7/A7R just to use with M optics alone. However, I also wouldn't get a M240 either since I almost exclusively shoot people, and the skin tone struggle put me off. The M240 or its successor may be revisited if and when that gets fixed without requiring a degree from MIT and PHD level work in color theory.

    - Marc
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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    CCD color is second to none -- at least at present.
    I do not agree that CCD monochrome is superior to CMOS monochrome; I see the best mono coming more as a function of total pixels available for conversion.
    Dedicated mono cams do give you more net mono pixels out of the gate than Bayer.
    MF cams of any build are heavy and big relative to most FF 35 DSLR.
    DSLR cams are faster to use and more convenient to carry.
    DSLR cams won't flash synch at more than 1/250th with studio strobes.
    Larger formats render an entirely different DoF signature than smaller ones, regardless of lens used -- an effect difficult to replicate with smaller formats.
    The Sony has taken FF 35 DSLR down to M4/3 sizes and portability while retaining a FF35 look -- and with about any lens.
    The smallest cams are saddled with EVF's; I still prefer TTL or direct VF's.
    Horses for courses.
    Bacon.
    Excellent summation Jack.

    While not a CMOS sensor, I can attest to the notion that more pixels (and/or better pixels) makes for excellent B&W conversions. At lower ISOs to 640, my S2 consistantly does better than my M Mono.

    I also very much agree that CCD color is better, which is hard for some to grasp unless they have worked extensively with a good CCD based camera. My hope is that your caveat (i.e., "for now."), comes true, and CMOS matures enough to deliver that level of color fidelity without all the confusing struggle in post.

    Glad you touched on the larger format DOF signature … it is something often overlooked.

    Agreed, EVF have a ways to go yet. Useable, and especially valuable for really low light, but still irritating as the technology now stands.

    Thanks,

    -Marc

    (BTW, what does "Bacon" mean? )

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    (BTW, what does "Bacon" mean? )
    I'll take a wager that if you google Beggin Strips videos you'll find the answer
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Interesting article for Leica fans

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Peter, you have a way of summing it up directly

    I've come to a similar conclusion … in today's over-crowded camera market, with all sorts of cameras that meet a vast majority of needs, there is a new user skill that is required: The art of knowing when to stop.

    I should have stopped at my M9P which had the CCD mojo I feel is missing with anything else. The MM is also my most valued rangefinder ever.

    I did do a course correction and sold all of my Hasselblad H4D/60 gear, and now have "stopped" at the S2.

    The A7R is, as you say, likable due to the size and relatively reasonable price for what it is capable of.

    However, I process work from my gear and that of all the different second shooters and assistants I hire. Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and a few others … all CMOS, all homogenized in look and feel out of the camera.

    - Marc
    Hey Marc

    yeah I can be 'direct' I guess- no offence meant to anyone.

    people can spend their money anyway they like - but truth be told my favourite photos framed and hung have rarely been an outcome of megapixels or even optics...certainly not dollar spend..

    I have come to favour smaller lighter gear - the Sony ticks that box - my Leica M's have a challenger - finally...well maybe just a pretender at this stage..but light enough to punch above its weight for sure ..

    cheers and happy shooting
    Pete

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