The Leica T - Impressions and Images

[Guy Mancuso]

Looks good, Jono!

I can never understand all the whinging over price. Sure, it's pricey—what's the big deal? No one forces you to buy it. The issue seems to be that everyone one WANTS a Leica, they're just not willing to pay the premium required.

Why? Well in my experience, Leica simply makes better cameras than most of the other guys. The fact that they charge for them is a point of aggravation to those who want one but can't afford it.

I've got my fireproof suit on, so flame away...

G

:facesmack:

It was the best comment i could come up with. For me its not about the money, its what you get for it. Okay I'm bailing out. Have fun folks, I'll go to my corner now. LOL


Jono nice report as always my friend.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

This was posted on Sony Rumors. Is this true about the sensor.

and I quote

ell, Leica knows how to make ane exclusive camera! They just announced the Leica T APS-C mirrorless camera ($1800 here at BHphoto). It has the same 16 Megapixel sensor of the $398 NEX-3n. But the NEX-3n comes with a lens while the Leica T does not. And the (slow!) Leica T kit zoom costs another $1750.

 

[bradhusick]

Do the twin dials work like a NEX-7?
Is the touchscreen basically an Olympus SCP?
Is the kit zoom basically a Lumix 14-45?
Is the 23mm prime better than the EOS-M 22mm prime?

You must be a person who likes building his own PC from parts.

 

[jlm]

it seems like we are always getting 85% of what we want, the missing 15% shifting around over several omissions, depending on the maker's priorities:

T: missing tilting LCD and missing built-in EFV and focus peaking, missing raw-only
A7R: noisy shutter, no workie with most wide angles, not a simple manual-like set of controls, not a leica, too many "special" features and menus

etc.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

it seems like we are always getting 85% of what we want, the missing 15% shifting around over several omissions, depending on the maker's priorities:

T: missing tilting LCD and missing built-in EFV and focus peaking, missing raw-only
A7R: noisy shutter, no workie with most wide angles, not a simple manual-like set of controls, not a leica, too many "special" features and menus

etc.

Yea I'll be long gone before they even get to 90 percent too.

 

[Elderly]

I can never understand all the whinging over price. Sure, it's pricey—what's the big deal? No one forces you to buy it. The issue seems to be that everyone one WANTS a Leica, they're just not willing to pay the premium required.



I've got my fireproof suit on, so flame away...

G

Okay Godfrey - I mentioned the price, so I'll take your comments personally .

I just stated the price. I then went on to give three reasons why I felt that my EM-1 and 12-40 was preferable for me.
Actually your inference was correct, I thinks it's too expensive .

But I think that you must separate price from value.
The price is not too high for me in terms of affordability but that price does not represent good value as I see it (cheap things can be poor value too), I don't pay a premium for other supposedly high end lifestyle brands mentioned in this thread either.
I don't know how to say this without sounding arrogant, but quality items have always been important to me and I've mainly been able to acquire what I've wanted. I DON'T want a Leica just because it's a Leica.

I actually do have a good quality three layer Nomex flame suit and an outrageously expensive Arai crash helmet to go with it for forum use (and my historic motor racing) but under that I'm a sensitive soul ......... so please be nice to me .

 

[Lonnie Utah]

This was posted on Sony Rumors. Is this true about the sensor.

and I quote

ell, Leica knows how to make ane exclusive camera! They just announced the Leica T APS-C mirrorless camera ($1800 here at BHphoto). It has the same 16 Megapixel sensor of the $398 NEX-3n. But the NEX-3n comes with a lens while the Leica T does not. And the (slow!) Leica T kit zoom costs another $1750.

I didn't write that I swear! lol.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay Godfrey - I mentioned the price, so I'll take your comments personally .

I just stated the price. I then went on to give three reasons why I felt that my EM-1 and 12-40 was preferable for me.
Actually your inference was correct, I thinks it's too expensive .

But I think that you must separate price from value.
The price is not too high for me in terms of affordability but that price does not represent good value as I see it (cheap things can be poor value too), I don't pay a premium for other supposedly high end lifestyle brands mentioned in this thread either.
I don't know how to say this without sounding arrogant, but quality items have always been important to me and I've mainly been able to acquire what I've wanted. I DON'T want a Leica just because it's a Leica.

I actually do have a good quality three layer Nomex flame suit and an outrageously expensive Arai crash helmet to go with it for forum use (and my historic motor racing) but under that I'm a sensitive soul ......... so please be nice to me .

My helmet is baseball bat proof. My wife has yet to penetrate it yet and she has had a zillion chances. LOL
Got a lot of dings though.

We need to remember price and value are not exactly one in the same and in most cases they are not. IMHO anything under a M240 or M9 is not worth the price. Just too many other products out there that just outrun it. I want a leica Monochrome as i see that has value to me. Price who cares I want it.

 

[Godfrey]

it seems like we are always getting 85% of what we want, the missing 15% shifting around over several omissions, depending on the maker's priorities:

T: missing tilting LCD and missing built-in EFV and focus peaking, missing raw-only
A7R: noisy shutter, no workie with most wide angles, not a simple manual-like set of controls, not a leica, too many "special" features and menus

etc.

The solution is to want less, and be happy using the marvels that we get as best we can.

G

 

[iiiNelson]

My helmet is baseball bat proof. My wife has yet to penetrate it yet and she has had a zillion chances. LOL
Got a lot of dings though.

We need to remember price and value are not exactly one in the same and in most cases they are not. IMHO anything under a M240 or M9 is not worth the price. Just too many other products out there that just outrun it. I want a leica Monochrome as i see that has value to me. Price who cares I want it.

Timing is also a huge factor. If this camera is released last summer when Leica had the whole "Mini M" fiasco then it looks a lot better being $4-500 more than an OM-D for the body, presents a viable backup to a M camera, and all of these other mirrorless cameras weren't available or heard of (A7 series, XT-1, etc.)

Again his is a great camera for some I'm sure and the system/ lens roadmap seems well thought out for the affluent casual photographer.

 

[Lars]

Lenses might be good but they need a better designed body. Aluminum is a poor choice especially in colder climates. Ugly as hell too, Leica can do and has done better. This is not functional design, this is form over function.

Touchscreen might attract the iPhone generation but is generally a bad idea. Cold climate again - in below freezing temps you have to wear gloves because that aluminum body gets so fricking cold but then you cannot use the touchscreen. Seriously, Leica?

Looking forward to seeing a better design in the T2.

 

[jonoslack]

Guy, Lonnie - I reckon it is based on that 3n sensor - but that has an AA filter and this doesn't (would that make it cheaper still?). I suspect the cover glass is different, but either way the sensor is not going to be the expensive part of this camera.

But as John points out - we only seem to get 85% of what we want (except for the OMD of course, which does really seem to tick all the boxes . . . but nobody wants it

On the other hand, it is different to have two buttons and two dials, and the arguments against all seem very familiar . . . they seem rather like the arguments that greeted the iphone a few years ago . . . . which was also an imperfect design, but did lead to something that wasn't.

Nobody has to buy it if they don't want to, as Lonnie pointed out, the cost/performance ratio isn't that great . but Leica clearly isn't directing it at people for whom the cost/performance benefit is relevant. . but perhaps the completely different user model is a step in a good direction.

Whatever - read all the reviews, there is a pretty universal nod to the whole touch screen/no dials buttons concept - Old hands like Michael Reichmann said it was like a camera Apple would design, and that he'd never called a camera sexy before.

Only time will tell whether it was a good idea or a bad idea, but Leica have created a useful and sensible new lens mount - certainly big enough for a full frame sensor (whereas the Sony E mount is clearly very marginal). It plays well with M lenses (which is important to some), and it's a nice object (which is important to others).

All the best

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well it's no fun if we don't give Leica a little hard time. Keeps them on there toes or is it on there touchscreen. Lol

It does look like a new gen type cam. We are just old farts my friend. Lol

 

[jonoslack]

Well it's no fun if we don't give Leica a little hard time. Keeps them on there toes or is it on there touchscreen. Lol

It does look like a new gen type cam. We are just old farts my friend. Lol

Hah! I need to be kept on my toes too Guy - it's good for this old fart! (and I'm an older fart than you! although, of course, much less smelly )

Truth is, personally, I've learned so much about people and attitudes doing this stuff - not just in terms of forums. It's a buzz trying to keep good tempered and friendly over 5 forums and half a dozen facebook groups. . . and not to offend anyone either.

I realise lots of people see me just as a fanboy, but 6 months testing a camera and sounding off to Leica about the things that should be changed (you should see some of the emails) and you get kind of fond of it! I really do think it's an interesting and different camera, and that MUST be a good thing . . . although it doesn't necessarily make it a good camera. Or worth the money either!

Unlike reviewers, I'm not really in a position to write a scathing report . . . BUT I'm absolutely at my liberty to write no report at all - I'm not paid for this by anyone . . . . .

Although in this case lots of people have been really generous, and currently we've raised over £4000 for Scarlett's hospital - so a BIG thanks to everyone who's donated.

.. . . and also a big thank you to you and Jack and Bob for having such a great forum.

Right - I'm knackered - off to bed!

 

[Double Negative]

I love new product launches like this... They make me realize just how much I (still) love my M9/MM.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Hah! I need to be kept on my toes too Guy - it's good for this old fart! (and I'm an older fart than you! although, of course, much less smelly )

Truth is, personally, I've learned so much about people and attitudes doing this stuff - not just in terms of forums. It's a buzz trying to keep good tempered and friendly over 5 forums and half a dozen facebook groups. . . and not to offend anyone either.

I realise lots of people see me just as a fanboy, but 6 months testing a camera and sounding off to Leica about the things that should be changed (you should see some of the emails) and you get kind of fond of it! I really do think it's an interesting and different camera, and that MUST be a good thing . . . although it doesn't necessarily make it a good camera. Or worth the money either!

Unlike reviewers, I'm not really in a position to write a scathing report . . . BUT I'm absolutely at my liberty to write no report at all - I'm not paid for this by anyone . . . . .

Although in this case lots of people have been really generous, and currently we've raised over £4000 for Scarlett's hospital - so a BIG thanks to everyone who's donated.

.. . . and also a big thank you to you and Jack and Bob for having such a great forum.

Right - I'm knackered - off to bed!

Well if some charity has benefitted than its all worth it. I did this awhile back like you to some degree and those emails sent where not laced with perfume either. Lol

 

[craigrudlin]

(1) In colder climates, there are now "special" gloves for use with touch screens. Don't know if they work or are warm, however.

(2) The T 's interface is potentially nice, and I now wonder if we will see a new S at Photokinia with a touch screen interface (and the top panel buttons/knobs). That might be a great "hybrid" design. Similar to what Phase tried, but more
ergonomically sound.

(3) With Leica, it is the glass, the glass, the glass. You buy the body
only for the best use of the glass. The leica lenses have a unique draw
and character that I like and prefer. From what I read, M lenses mounted
on other brands do not function "quite up to spec". If they do reach spec
on the T, that gives the camera some appeal. Personally, I would like to
have seen a full size sensor and faster lenses, but then, the size and
probably the price would be at the level of a M series and there would
be less differentiation in the product line.

It should have been weather sealed however at this price!

 

[Godfrey]

I think it's exciting to see a new design like this. Whether it works is the question.

...
Only time will tell whether it was a good idea or a bad idea, but Leica have created a useful and sensible new lens mount - certainly big enough for a full frame sensor (whereas the Sony E mount is clearly very marginal). It plays well with M lenses (which is important to some), and it's a nice object (which is important to others).

If they made it a FF sensor, I'd be more interested as then a) it would do what I want with my Leica R lenses, and b) I know for a fact that Leica will develop the system further with regards to lenses whereas I'm never sure that Sony will pay attention long enough to get to a "next compatible model."

(Yes, I have an A7, but I have very little faith in Sony's ability to develop anything consistently past the first 90 days bottom line...)

G

 

[Y.B.Hudson III]

My helmet is baseball bat proof. My wife has yet to penetrate it yet and she has had a zillion chances. LOL
Got a lot of dings though.

We need to remember price and value are not exactly one in the same and in most cases they are not. IMHO anything under a M240 or M9 is not worth the price. Just too many other products out there that just outrun it. I want a leica Monochrome as i see that has value to me. Price who cares I want it.

Yehh, if you can't spell "monochrom" you probably can't @FFord it? :angel:

 

[jaree]

If it works well with the M lenses, esp 28'cron and 21SE then it may be worth it next year when the price has fallen to $1,200 or so. Unless Sony comes out with a pocket medium format camera that can take S2 lenses via adapter by then.