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Thread: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

  1. #51
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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    Quote Originally Posted by alajuela View Post
    Hello Jono

    I have been thinking about what you found, It is possible that Aperture is treating the blown highlights 255 -255 -255 as out of out-of-gamut colors, as in a Perceptual rendering intent.
    Possibly an algorithmic formula preserving some relationship say between 255 until 235. Moving the values (blending) while preserving the relationship in that range. That high in zone 9 -10 based on the surrounding areas (especially in B+W) which is all luminosity, it should blend in if the algorithm is written correct.
    So at least your are not printing paper white.
    There are some members, who write raw converters here, they would be interesting to hear from

    Thanks

    Phil

    PS I love my monochrome also. - Just picked up an old Summar (1935) and a Summitar as old as I am
    Phil, saturation is an absolute limit--there is no 256, 256, 256 coordinate in a gamut. And that point needs to be a white point or it makes little sense. You also what to print to paper white as that is the white point in a print.

    But if you think in 8-bit, then it hard to imagine how much can be done. But in 14-bit, what a single level from 254 to 255 in 8-bit is 226 levels in 14-bit. When you know that to create a stepless gradient from black to white only requires about 200 levels of grey, there can be a lot of information in the highlights. The trick is how to tease out that information. Tones in an image are relational and, without things like masking, you cannot change that relationship in any way and still come out with something that looks pleasing or natural. However, it is certainly possible for different software to tease out highlights in different ways.

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    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Phil, saturation is an absolute limit--there is no 256, 256, 256 coordinate in a gamut. And that point needs to be a white point or it makes little sense. You also what to print to paper white as that is the white point in a print.

    But if you think in 8-bit, then it hard to imagine how much can be done. But in 14-bit, what a single level from 254 to 255 in 8-bit is 226 levels in 14-bit. When you know that to create a stepless gradient from black to white only requires about 200 levels of grey, there can be a lot of information in the highlights. The trick is how to tease out that information. Tones in an image are relational and, without things like masking, you cannot change that relationship in any way and still come out with something that looks pleasing or natural. However, it is certainly possible for different software to tease out highlights in different ways.
    Thanks Will - I was thinking possibly that Aperture was treating the blown highlights (255) as an out of gamut color in Perceptual* rendering (as opposed to colorimetric) . Pulling back the 255 to say 248 and fading in until 235 +/-

    But what you say makes sense, and it appears that Aperture is reading the Leica DNG files better than ACR. Drawing out the information in the highlight range - hence more detail in the extreme highlights 235 - 248.

    I think I was over thinking it

    Thanks

    Phil

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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    A sort of related question to the blown highlights.

    I understand that in a colour image, the colour value of a pixel is based on averaging its neighbours. In a purely monochrome image is this still necessary? And if so, why? Surely, in a monochrome image, a pixel is nothing more than a photon counter.

    Or, not for the first time, have I misunderstood something?
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    Robert, you are right--pixels are just photon counters in mono. Still, there is a great deal of potential information in the highlights. So regardless if we have three color channels or one luminance channel, the problem is the same to tease out the highlights. And maybe that is the clue. Perhaps one program is wanting the channel information to do the recovery and, without that, it is not as effective--color channels do not clip at the same point and it is possible to interpolate from unclipped channels (I imagine the blue channel to be key here). Just a guess. Without knowing what the designers are doing, it is hard to be sure.
    Will

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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    The monochrom is so good at noise control that it's just best to underexpose and make sure you don't blow the highlights.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    The monochrom is so good at noise control that it's just best to underexpose and make sure you don't blow the highlights.
    Agreed. There's so much shadow detail that can be readily pulled out that there's just no need to get that close to the right side of the histogram.

    Granted, you don't want to necessarily "expose to the left" either...

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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    I've never been so enthusiastic about any camera before, it just encourages me to explore the possibilities of line, texture, light, shadow, contrast, everything. It is simply inspiring.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Senior Member rayyen's Avatar
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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....



    Rework my 35 & 50 LuxA to match with my new Chrom Mono...
    Leica | Angenieux | Alpa | Hasselblad | Phase One
    www.raymondchak.com
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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    Rayyen, you decided to go with titanium finished lenses rather than silver chrome?
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    The MM brings back all the fun of the darkroom ... including spotting ( must clean those dozen or so large oil marks off my sensor )

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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenInTime View Post
    The MM brings back all the fun of the darkroom ... including spotting ( must clean those dozen or so large oil marks off my sensor )
    That's all well and good but what's your substitute for the smell of fixer?
    Now please don't tell me Eclipse fluid...LOL!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Senior Member rayyen's Avatar
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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Rayyen, you decided to go with titanium finished lenses rather than silver chrome?
    The lens are silver chrome lens I remove and repaint the numbers on the lens with colour I fancy
    Leica | Angenieux | Alpa | Hasselblad | Phase One
    www.raymondchak.com

  13. #63
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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    my story is short, had, sold it, not my cup of tea, enjoy the m240 much much more

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    Re: Mono owners -tell me your feelings....

    I am quite the opposite - I've had it for about a week and minus the 3 day hospital stay, I've been shooting with it just about every day. It is everything that I hoped for - I love the tonality and can't wait to see some of the prints.

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