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Thread: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

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    Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    i am posting this for Mitch as he has gone over to the dark side and got an M8.2 (since i'm the one who suggested he start an online petition, it's the least i can do). he has posted it on forums elsewhere, but i wanted to make sure as many people saw this as possible and you all started my M8 lust. i realise the new craze is for the G1, but some of us (me!) are still holding out for a digital M and this fight is near and dear to my heart. even i you have gone through the hassle and expense of coding all your lenses, please please please sign this petition for the sake of future M8/M8.2 owners.

    thank you!


    From Mitch:

    There has been extensive discussion of Leica's use of lens coding to identity lenses to the M8. Many of us feel that this is an extremely inconvenient and costly solution for the user and that this should be done, more simply, by providing for it in the M8 firmware, which is easy to implement. Accordingly, I have written an online petition to Andreas Kaufmann and Leica, which reads as follows:

    While Leica's solution of coding lenses in order to identify them to the camera may have made sense at the time the M8 was introduced, today a better solution is available. Nikon deals with lens identification in firmware, by simply allowing the used to enter the focal length and maximum aperture of the lens. With such a facility available in the M8 firmware the user would not have to send lenses away for coding, which is not only relatively expensive but is also bothersome in that the lenses have to be sent away and may not be received back for some time; it is also often onerous for Leica M8 users who do not live in Europe and North America, in that lens shipment is more costly, takes longer and involves troublesome customs clearance when the lenses are shipped back.

    We therefore call on Dr Andreas Kaufmann and Leica to institute an M8 lens identification system in firmware, preferably on an open-system basis for all lenses or at least for all Leica lenses that can be used on the M8.

    You can sign the petition at the following link, and I encourage you to list in the Comment field the Leica-M camaras that you own:

    Initiate lens identification in Leica M8 firmware Petition : [ powered by iPetitions.com ]

    My feeling is that, as this matter has been discussed so extensively, there is no need to discuss it here further. Please sign the petition if you support this initiative.

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Spam! To sign this futile thing one has to make a donation!

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    my apologies, Vivek!

    it seems some people get it and others do not -- i don't quite understand....

    now i get it and think i signed the petition multiple times... (insert expletive deletive here)

    it acknowledges your signature and then asks you for a donation, hence the multiple posts from me and others.

    simply fill out your name and email, click, and when you get to the donation page IGNORE.
    Last edited by cam; 21st January 2009 at 07:37. Reason: to correct

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Spam! To sign this futile thing one has to make a donation!
    Hi Vivek
    You don't have to make a donation - you are just invited to!
    close the screen if you don't want to (just like me)

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Cam, Got it! I did my part!

    Oh, yeah, i did, Jono. But I wasn't sure mine got recorded though. I should check...

    Well, not all sound input gets registered. They only wish to keep the signatures. Hmm..

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Cam, Got it! I did my part!
    yeah... and i did it three times!

    when oh when will i learn not to sign petitions until after the gin?

  7. #7
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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Drink more gin!

  8. #8
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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    If heavyweights like Guy or Jack emailed the bigwigs at Leica, we could get more attention. This is in addition to the petition drive, where I'm glad to see that Oskar Barnack came back from the dead to support the weekend snappers.

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    "[H]eavyweights like Guy?" I think Guy is quite svelte.

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    "[H]eavyweights like Guy?" I think Guy is quite svelte.
    yes, but does he like gin?

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Vodka and you get whatever you want. I'm easy. LOL

    Leica has heard from me in the past on this issue and it seems there not going to do this. I know they have talked long and hard about this but that was than and this is now, so who knows. There is two sides to this coin the buyers position and Leica's position and both have very solid reasons for both of there reasoning. These things are very common in the industry to begin with. Example is Sigma they do not have or can lease , rent or borrow the patents from Canon and Nikon yet they reversed engineered them to get around it. Hassy has closed there system also with the 28mm that there H1 and H2 will not accept this lens with anything but the H3 and a Hassy back so it locked out users that have different OEM backs with the H1 and H2. Like it or not this is very common in the industry and sometimes we have to see from there side of the fence and the protection they must give there businesses. I won't speak for Leica but i do understand there position as well as I understand the buyers position. Unfortunately this petition will do nothing that I can see but certainly can't hurt either. Like canon when they made the change for better or worse to the EF mount from the FD mount all hell broke lose with owners. Folks do need to see beyond there own personal needs sometimes and understand what truly goes on in the industry but obviously not everyone does that and that is okay also. It is really a tough issue and not many are on the winning side of it.

    Yes Steve on am more on the svelte side than the pig in the barn these days. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    vodka it is, then!

    i understand what you're saying, Guy, but i figured a petition might be a little more pro-active than just b*tching on another thread (blame it on all the protests in Paris). i know if i can ever afford an M8.2, there's no way i'll be able to afford the coding (which they can't even do for my favourite 35 Lux pre-asph). in a way, the lack of this function has kept me from pulling the trigger.

    it still bothers me a lot, to be honest, but i am desperate for a quiet camera. still, all these hoops Leica makes you jump through leaves me cold. i love the simple elegance of the Epson -- everything i need to shoot is on the top, very much like a film camera. i

    perhaps if Leica starts losing sales to the new cameras like the G1 that are coming out, they might finally take notice of us poor peons and finally pay attention to the customer to save themselves. i don't want to them to fail, mind you, and shutter every time my other says they should quit cameras and concentrate on glass, but....

    there should be an easy way in firmware to make this change. reward those who have coded their lenses or bought new ones by plug-and-play as it is now. but make it possible for those of us with older glass to use ours, even if we have to go through the drudgery of typing the info ourselves.

    sign the petition, Guy. give us your gravitas.

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    With a Hendricks in hand (& 3 delicate slices of cucumber immersed)
    I'm off to Sign the Petition

    Best of Luck to You & Mitch for undertaking this Endeavor....

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Yes - I've signed it too.
    Mind you, it's better to have the lenses coded - apart from the 'proprietorial' argument Guy put, is the 'cockup' argument, which those of us using the wate are so susceptible to.

    e.g. you put your 50mm f2 on and pick the correct lens in the firmware . . . then you take it off, and put on your 18mm zeiss and forget to change it . . oops (broken photos, really not much to be done). With Nikon, the camera does at least recognise that it's a lens it doesn't know.

    I'd rather use pen and ink coding - still, I have signed, and I DO think it would be a good idea.

    If I were to get ONE change in the firmware though, it would be to be able to see black and white LCD reviews when shooting RAW only (RAW+jpg is soo slooow).

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    thank you for signing, Helen! ah, Hendricks, mmmmmmmmm... our local dealer has been out

    thank you, too, Jono! you know the Epson is pretty speedy at RAW and b/w JPEGs

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    thank you, too, Jono! you know the Epson is pretty speedy at RAW and b/w JPEGs
    Shhhhhhhhhhh


    or



    I'll




    Throw my G1 at you

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    I think I bought a G1 today , waiting to here back. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooo bad
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Shhhhhhhhhhh


    or



    I'll




    Throw my G1 at you
    which colour?


    don't suppose you'd consider subbing the D-Lux 4 and the Sony? (i have a very hard head!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think I bought a G1 today , waiting to here back. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooo bad
    you are, Guy, but congrats!

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    which colour?


    don't suppose you'd consider subbing the D-Lux 4 and the Sony? (i have a very hard head!)

    Black . . . so if you're feeling colourful you'd better insult Guy!

    While I'm chucking stuff, I'd have thought the best weapon in my arsenal might be the Zuiko 7-14!

    Congratulations Guy
    I hope you'll be very happy together

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Hi All,

    I suspect that Guy is on the money with the effect this will have but there is, as was pointed out earlier, no harm in trying.

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    It just seems that the camera with the most lens choices should be able to identify them.

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by gero View Post
    It just seems that the camera with the most lens choices should be able to identify them.
    erm . . . panasonic G1?

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    erm . . . panasonic G1?
    maybe, but with the crop and thick adapters; it doesent count for me.

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by gero View Post
    maybe, but with the crop and thick adapters; it doesent count for me.
    The M for the G1 adaptor is less than 1cm thick . . agree about the crop factor though.

    I must say, a really understand the arguments made about Leica's patents (why should they make it easy for other lens manufacturers to take their sales away). I bet they think they've done enough for 3rd party manufacturer's already (it would be interesting to see the proportion of sales of CV and ZM m mount lenses that have been bought for Leica cameras recently, and those that have been bought for Bessa and Ikon).

    Still, I think the table would actually do them good - It's never going to be anything like as convenient as a coded lens (even the wate with the options is a pain in the butt). On the other hand, it would lure in lots of people who don't already have M8's . . . . who would then discover what a pain it is and get coded lenses!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Petition for initiating M8 lens identification in firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I must say, a really understand the arguments made about Leica's patents (why should they make it easy for other lens manufacturers to take their sales away). I bet they think they've done enough for 3rd party manufacturer's already (it would be interesting to see the proportion of sales of CV and ZM m mount lenses that have been bought for Leica cameras recently, and those that have been bought for Bessa and Ikon).

    Still, I think the table would actually do them good - It's never going to be anything like as convenient as a coded lens (even the wate with the options is a pain in the butt). On the other hand, it would lure in lots of people who don't already have M8's . . . . who would then discover what a pain it is and get coded lenses!
    it's actually a factor in my not getting an M8 up to now. it kind of pisses me off. if i actually sprung for an M8.2, it would be ages before i could afford to code my glass -- my 35 Lux pre-asph being uncodeable regardless.

    do they want to sell bodies? i mean, really? sometimes i wonder.... (and other times i just think i'll dump K and move in with you )

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