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Thread: Leica S 100mm F2

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    Leica S 100mm F2

    So what's this I hear about a new 100mm Leica S lens, announced in LFI?

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    In German, but the specs are there and so is a picture:

    Leica Summicron-S 2/100 mm ASPH. | photoscala

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    This lens and an S or S2 would probably be the only piece of photographic equipment I would ever need. It's an economic question of course, and at the moment, I can't even afford the lens, but it's a thought

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This lens and an S or S2 would probably be the only piece of photographic equipment I would ever need. It's an economic question of course, and at the moment, I can't even afford the lens, but it's a thought
    I agree 100%

    Only (and here comes my GAS into play again) I would also like a wide angle as well!

    Used Leica S cameras are pretty "cheap" meanwhile .... €7900.- http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_de/...system/s2.html

    Used 2.8/30 Elmarit ..... €3600.- http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_de/...30mm-asph.html

    Well, still expensive.

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I agree 100%

    Only (and here comes my GAS into play again) I would also like a wide angle as well!

    Used Leica S cameras are pretty "cheap" meanwhile .... 7900.- S2 - Leica S System - LEICA

    Used 2.8/30 Elmarit ..... 3600.- Elmarit-S 2,8/30mm ASPH. - Leica S System - LEICA

    Well, still expensive.
    Funny that you write that, Peter. I was going to add that I would probably add a WA lens too, but was too lazy

    I wonder... if I sell all my gear...

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    I can say that if push came to shove, a CS45 and CS100 could do it for me. That's equivalent to a 35 and 75-80ish in 35mm terms which have always been my most used focal lengths.

    I have the CS35 and wondered it that was going to be too close to the 45 I recently added. As it turns out, it isn't for my applications I go to the 35 when shooting larger groups or environmental portraits, where anything wider would introduce to much W/A "people distortion".

    I currently use the Hasselblad 100/2.2 on my S2P, so I know how the focal length works

    - Marc

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Funny that you write that, Peter. I was going to add that I would probably add a WA lens too, but was too lazy

    I wonder... if I sell all my gear...
    I wonder too, but I must say it is tempting!

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I can say that if push came to shove, a CS45 and CS100 could do it for me. That's equivalent to a 35 and 75-80ish in 35mm terms … which have always been my most used focal lengths.

    I have the CS35 and wondered it that was going to be too close to the 45 I recently added. As it turns out, it isn't for my applications … I go to the 35 when shooting larger groups or environmental portraits, where anything wider would introduce to much W/A "people distortion".

    I currently use the Hasselblad 100/2.2 on my S2P, so I know how the focal length works …

    - Marc
    I see I also could survive with 2 lenses and I do agree that 35mm equivalent is maybe better in case of only 2 lenses. I just mentioned the 30 as it is available used at Leica Shop Vienna. And if I would go S System, then I would try to only buy used in order to minimize loss.

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    In German, but the specs are there and so is a picture:

    Leica Summicron-S 2/100 mm ASPH. | photoscala
    Peter,it's nice to see the weight was kept reasonable,no doubt achieved with 7 elements vs 12 in the 45mm.

    At 6500 euros its about the same price as the S120mm..

    I'll start saving now

    Rob

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    I can understand you wanting this lens, Rob. I just bought the 120 a few months ago - and it is a wonderful lens, no doubt. But a 100 Summicron sounds delicious. I can't wait to see some sample images. I wonder how nice the OOF areas will render.

    The German press release talks about "special optimization for skintones" and I wonder how this works, exactly.

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I wonder... if I sell all my gear...
    That is exactly what I did in March last year. Every time I download the photos to my computer and see them in all their glory, I'm delighted. Right now I'm having some problems with my 120 mm but I'm sure that will get sorted out.

    Really no regrets, the IQ is that good.

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    I can understand you wanting this lens, Rob. I just bought the 120 a few months ago - and it is a wonderful lens, no doubt. But a 100 Summicron sounds delicious. I can't wait to see some sample images. I wonder how nice the OOF areas will render.

    The German press release talks about "special optimization for skintones" and I wonder how this works, exactly.

    Peter,my "guess" is that they have adjusted micro contrast and sharpness to produce pleasing skin rendition .. A little less sharp perhaps to provide a black mist 1/4 filter look to the skin..

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    If they could make this work only in the skintone frequencies that would be awesome.

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    If they could make this work only in the skintone frequencies that would be awesome.
    I never used Cooke lenses but I believe they have a portrait lens that does just that.. Cooke | Lenses | Large Format | Soft Focus | Photography

    They're are probably some guys on here that could comment on this in detail.
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I can say that if push came to shove, a CS45 and CS100 could do it for me. That's equivalent to a 35 and 75-80ish in 35mm terms … which have always been my most used focal lengths.

    I have the CS35 and wondered it that was going to be too close to the 45 I recently added. As it turns out, it isn't for my applications … I go to the 35 when shooting larger groups or environmental portraits, where anything wider would introduce to much W/A "people distortion".

    I currently use the Hasselblad 100/2.2 on my S2P, so I know how the focal length works …

    - Marc
    Small out of topic:
    Marc do you see an IQ difference between the 35 & the new 45 ? (sharpness, micro contrast, bokeh)
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    The latest issue of LFI says there will not be a CS version of the 100 mm.

    "Due to its high light sensitivity, the Summicron requires lens elements with a larger diameter, so that a central shutter could not be accommodated."


    That's too bad for photographers that want to do outdoor environmental portraits. Still, it's a nice lens, I think.

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    "Due to its high light sensitivity, the Summicron requires lens elements with a larger diameter, so that a central shutter could not be accommodated."
    Hmm, Rollei/Zeiss made a 2/110mm in PQ mount - and that's even a true 6x6 lens. Shutter limited to 1/500s - but anyway, it's possible...

    Andreas

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmiddi View Post
    Hmm, Rollei/Zeiss made a 2/110mm in PQ mount - and that's even a true 6x6 lens. Shutter limited to 1/500s - but anyway, it's possible...

    Andreas
    Not if you standardize on one central shutter that is too small.....

    Bob

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    The latest issue of LFI says there will not be a CS version of the 100 mm.

    "Due to its high light sensitivity, the Summicron requires lens elements with a larger diameter, so that a central shutter could not be accommodated."


    That's too bad for photographers that want to do outdoor environmental portraits. Still, it's a nice lens, I think.
    If Hasselblad can make a 100 2.2 with leaf shutters that sync at 1/800s that why can't Leica?This is disappointing news.. I may end up with a HCD 100 instead!
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    If Hasselblad can make a 100 2.2 with leaf shutters that sync at 1/800s that why can't Leica?This is disappointing news.. I may end up with a HCD 100 instead!
    My thought exactly!


    Regards,

    Bob

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Or keep the HC-100/2.2 I already have.


    Frankly, it was an exciting prospect, but I'm secretly glad it's off the list ($$$$$)!

    - Marc

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Yes, I find it rather disappointing that they - at least for now - say that there will not be a central shutter version. It will certainly serve a purpose for some, but a central shutter to me really seems a must have for a lens that Leica themselves are saying was made for portraits, fashion and beauty shots. That is the kind of work where one might expect (heavy) use of flash light. Maybe some will find it okay to work with only the focal plane shutter in the studio with short flash duration, but I really think Leica missed big opportunity here.

    Bob, indeed it is strange that they could not fit in the central shutter, especially as most S lenses are supposedly already larger (width) than strictly necessary for the sensor size, because the design has to take the central shutter into account.

    On positive note, since this lens is going to be relatively low weight, with not so much glass to move around, it might autofocus much faster than the 120, especially with the new firmware coming up.

    I'm really curious to see some sample images with this lens wide-open and stopped down.

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Well, this is certainly another example where you can't please everyone. Presumably they made this lens for photographers who wanted a lighter, faster telephoto lens for environmental portraits and field work, and in that sense they left out the central shutter...the 120 is quite close in focal length and speed and is available in CS, and this is surely what Leica would recommend to photographers who want a similar lens but with a central shutter. The 100mm Hasselblad with the adapter is probably an even more comparable option...not sure how the two will compare in ergonomics and performance though. But for photographers who are doing travel, landscape or portraits without flash the 100mm f/2 might be better suited. While I appreciate that other photographers rely heavily on the sync speed of the central shutter, my own personal work makes no use of it at all. So personally, the S system would be better for me if the lenses did not suffer the design constraints of the central shutters. As Peter mentioned, many of the lenses would be smaller (particularly the 70mm) if it weren't for the design they had to use for the central shutters. I recognize, however, that having the central shutters is very useful to certain kinds of photographers and that makes the system as a whole more attractive, and consequently it sells better, more lenses come out and so on.

    The 100mm f/2 would suit my work quite well, and I would appreciate its speed and size. That said, the 120mm I already have is already so good as to make me skeptical as to whether another lens so similar in focal length would be necessary. As I said in the other thread, I wish they had made this a 45-50mm f/2 instead! You can't always get what you want...
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Well, this is certainly another example where you can't please everyone. Presumably they made this lens for photographers who wanted a lighter, faster telephoto lens for environmental portraits and field work, and in that sense they left out the central shutter...the 120 is quite close in focal length and speed and is available in CS, and this is surely what Leica would recommend to photographers who want a similar lens but with a central shutter. The 100mm Hasselblad with the adapter is probably an even more comparable option...not sure how the two will compare in ergonomics and performance though. But for photographers who are doing travel, landscape or portraits without flash the 100mm f/2 might be better suited. While I appreciate that other photographers rely heavily on the sync speed of the central shutter, my own personal work makes no use of it at all. So personally, the S system would be better for me if the lenses did not suffer the design constraints of the central shutters. As Peter mentioned, many of the lenses would be smaller (particularly the 70mm) if it weren't for the design they had to use for the central shutters. I recognize, however, that having the central shutters is very useful to certain kinds of photographers and that makes the system as a whole more attractive, and consequently it sells better, more lenses come out and so on.

    The 100mm f/2 would suit my work quite well, and I would appreciate its speed and size. That said, the 120mm I already have is already so good as to make me skeptical as to whether another lens so similar in focal length would be necessary. As I said in the other thread, I wish they had made this a 45-50mm f/2 instead! You can't always get what you want...
    Well Stuart, Leica has proved that they are not constrained to CS specifications with two lenses so far the 24 and this 100mm. I seriously doubt the 70mm would have been all that much smaller even if it had been a non-CS capable lens, but that speculation is a moot point now.

    Leica went on record in positioning the S system as a professional solution. Of course it probably sells more to non-pros, but it IS a camera with a dual shutter, a feature that separates it from most of the pack.

    One need not be a pro to use a bit of fill flash to avoid raccoon eyes and hat shadows, or to mitigate ambient shadow contamination in strong color surroundings like a forest, etc. However, without the fast sync option one is relegated to 1/125 top shutter in ambient light less than optimal with most any of these lenses, especially portrait focal lengths. ND filters do not change that. 1/125 is too slow to mitigate camera movement or subject movement where ambient is still the main light source. The HSS option with a SF58 speed-light is okay, but weak pulse strobing is really useable only for a very narrow band of daylight applications. A whole world of possibilities opens up with CS lenses, even for the advanced enthusiasts with a SF58, let alone a more powerful strobe that allows minute control of bright ambient backgrounds.

    So, I see the point you are making that it would have suited your needs if no CS lenses were made available. Conversely, had they just made a focal plane camera, I would not have bought into the S system. Leica provided a solution that offers the option for both of us, one that makes it an attractive camera for our needs as different as they may be. I can shoot with or without the use of CS, and you can shoot ambient all the time with lighter non-CS lenses. That the lenses are a bit larger was the compromise to expand the versatility of the system for anyone whether they take advantage of all features, or not. Plus, it leaves the door open to expand one's horizons should either the need arise, or the curiosity bug bites an ambient oriented photographer to use lighting in future.

    - Marc

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    The 30-90mm as well. And don't get me wrong, I am not advocating that they abandon CS lenses! I just meant that we don't always get a system that is perfectly tailored to us. I recognize that having the CS option adds immensely to the overall value of the system, just that for me, personally and selfishly, if they designed the system for me, the CS is just a bulk, weight, cost and optically constraining addition. I had both the 110mm f/2 for the FE Hasselblad and the Rollei 6008, and believe me the Hasselblad version was a lot nicer to work with! Probably half the weight and bulk...clearly Leica's modern take is much more efficient.

    The only thing I was trying to say is that not every lens or accessory is going to be suited to every user. If they could have made the 100mm f/2 the same quality and size with a CS version, I am sure they would have, but clearly they felt like they had to compromise it in a way that was unacceptable. Personally I would rather have them make these sorts of lenses available, rather than shelf them because they cannot fit a central shutter.
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    I bought into the S2 specifically to use my Hasselblad 110mm/f2.0 FE that was providing wonderful results to my almost complete satisfaction on film. The focus confirmation and digital capture would enable me to do much more of what I'd started with street portraits. Tbh, the 110mm with the S2 didn't keep it's magic and with the 35mm and 75mm, I've remained nervous about buying the 120mm.

    As a result, I'm owning and storing an extensive Hasselblad film system, a half-arsed S2 system and a Monochrom where all I really need/want is an S2 with that 110mm magic that I can carry. I don't need CS and my Hasselblad 50mm FLE could backfill for the 75mm. So, that could go as well as the 110mm, if this new 100mm Summicron is what I'm hoping for and at a UK price that matches the US price.

    IMHO, The S2 could, and should, become my No.1 go-to camera, funding itself by releasing all my other gear, including Imacon 848. I await the Leica pricing information and users results with great anticipation.

    Gary

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Leica Miami put up their description - 100mm Available for Pre-Order. It'll be interesting to see how the 100/2 S draws compared to the 75 & 90 M APO's.

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2


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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Seems like one could get the Hasselblad 100/2.2 (w/H-Adapter,) lose 1/3 of a stop, gain flash sync to 1/750th of a second, and retain metadata for half the price of this lens... or less if you shop used.
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    At B&H
    1800 dollars for S adapter H,
    4260 dollars for 100mm f2.2 H series

    8000 for the 100mm f2 S

    So going for the S is about 30% more expensive when buying new. You can't buy used, as it is not released yet. Personally, I would much rather have the 100mm f2. It's faster, it focuses closer, it is weather sealed and it is native to the system. Having consistent color, bokeh and overall image quality is often underrated, and the 100mm S would be more consistent with the other S lenses. This is also leaving aside performance, which is likely to be better on the S lens (not to say it is bad on the Hasselblad, but the S lenses are newer and developed to an unbelievable standard). So yes, personally I wouldn't even consider the Hasselblad lens. Flash is irrelevant to me, however. Clearly if a central shutter is a requirement, this lens is not for you. We have been over this already, however!
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Of course, there's a major new S camera firmware update coming for all S cameras, required to support this lens - and promising a boatload of performance tweaks.
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    It' not very clear to me wether the firmware update for the S2-P also includes the optimised AF performance, or not.

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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    It' not very clear to me wether the firmware update for the S2-P also includes the optimised AF performance, or not.
    It isn't really clear, you're right. But they do mention a new algorithm... So I would assume it's across the board. Whether or not the performance is equal might be another matter...
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Thanks, I've been thinking along these lines too. Doesn't the S have a faster processor? Otherwise I can't think of any reason why the S2 can't have faster/more accurate AF too. Not that I can't live with the AF as it is now, it's always spot on and fast enough for my kind of work. Still, any improvement is welcome, of course.
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    And here are the first sample images:

    Images // Summicron-S 1:2,0/100 mm ASPH. // Leica S-Lenses // Leica S // Photography - Leica Camera AG

    Looking at the portraits in the garage and the background buildings in the fashionshoot-like photos of the young couple, it seems this lens has very, very nice bokeh indeed. Very soft and quiet. Take a look at the OOF area in the collar in the close-up in the garage. The jewellery could easily get rather harsh, not here.

    The black & white landscapes are nice, but perhaps the clarity slider was cranked up a bit too much for my taste, rather grainy in the skies ...
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    The link does not (or nor longer) work.
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Check here (the URL changed by two characters).
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    At B&H
    1800 dollars for S adapter H,
    4260 dollars for 100mm f2.2 H series

    8000 for the 100mm f2 S

    So going for the S is about 30% more expensive when buying new. You can't buy used, as it is not released yet. Personally, I would much rather have the 100mm f2. It's faster, it focuses closer, it is weather sealed and it is native to the system. Having consistent color, bokeh and overall image quality is often underrated, and the 100mm S would be more consistent with the other S lenses. This is also leaving aside performance, which is likely to be better on the S lens (not to say it is bad on the Hasselblad, but the S lenses are newer and developed to an unbelievable standard). So yes, personally I wouldn't even consider the Hasselblad lens. Flash is irrelevant to me, however. Clearly if a central shutter is a requirement, this lens is not for you. We have been over this already, however!
    True but you can regularly find Hassleblad 100/2.2 in the $3000-3800 range and adapters in the $1500 range. The Leica S 100/2 I though was going for $8500 as well but I could've read wrong.

    Choice is good though.
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Has the link disappeared again? I can't find the sample images anywhere now...?

  40. #40
    Senior Member
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Yes, mysteriously, it has changed again. Here's the right link, for the moment ...

    Summicron-S 100 mm f/2 ASPH. // Leica S-Lenses // Leica S // Photography - Leica Camera AG

  41. #41
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Great job, Leica!

  42. #42
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    Re: Leica S 100mm F2

    Thanks! I figured out why I couldn't find it, even from the main website. Pure and simply, just bad website design. It's really easy to miss the images link.

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