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Thread: New Leica X (Typ 113)

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    ...even with the aperture limited to f/2.8 to help out. (actually, focus at 1.7, take pictures at 2.8 would be a good strategy working close -- does it do that?) ...
    It's a bit complicated. I was interested in this behavior.

    During normal viewing in low and changeable light, you can hear the X working the aperture to help keep the viewfinder brightness constant.

    - When you half-press the shutter*with AF enabled, the aperture opens and the focusing mechanism locks, then the aperture is stopped down to taking aperture and the focus and exposure settings lock so you can see the DoF.

    - When AF is disabled, the lens is normally wide open when focusing, varies a bit while viewing, and the half-press AE lock behaves as above.

    The maximum aperture restriction is directly tied to focus distance. It starts at 1.2m (47 inches) where maximum aperture drops to f/1.8, and it drops further to f/2.8 by 0.42m (16 inches), hitting intermediary values in between (f/1.8, f/2, f/2.2, f/2.5, f/2.8). It holds at f/2.8 down to 0.20m (8 inches).

    I've had very very little time to work with the X yet due to other commitments, but I did take it with my on my Saturday morning walk yesterday and made a few exposures. I had it set to B&W JPEG+DNG for part of the walk and to Color JPEG+DNG for another part. Loading the photos into LR 5.6, I have to say it looks like the lens performs very nicely. I'll try to post one or two later.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Suspense is killing me Godfrey, was going to ask "what's it like", but figured you'd post when you were god and ready.
    Gary

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gbealnz View Post
    Suspense is killing me Godfrey, was going to ask "what's it like", but figured you'd post when you were god and ready. ...
    It's complicated ... ;-)
    I'm not off the fence yet either. I can return this camera still. But ... I ordered the half case for it. That's a sign. I could return that too, however.

    I took the X when I went out to get Sunday breakfast (my partner is out of town) and do some errands. Some big event thing happening that blocked my way to my usual preferred breakfast joint, did one of my errands, and ended up having a breakfast sandwich at the local Starbux while waiting to get a haircut. I was sitting outside as I ate, reading news and snapping photos of people walking by. Just their lower legs and feet, mostly, against the textured concrete.

    Yeah, I live in these odd moments.

    I've had the EVF fitted since I received the camera. It's interesting but the manual focusing aid is actually clearer and sharper on the LCD than it is in the EVF, despite the difference in resolution.

    One thing I'm a little perplexed about is that the EVF doesn't seem to be able to receive a GPS signal, and it's supposed to. No matter where I go or how long I keep it up, I only get the satellite indicator showing "failed to connect" and all EXIF GPS fields are zeroed out. Can't find anything that says I need to do anything more than fit the EVF and turn on GPS in the menu, if it's off. I sent a note to Leica tech support.

    One thing on this camera that's the same as the X2 when I use it without a half-case: I keep pressing the lower-most left hand button (Menu/Set on the X) inadvertently. Even though it's a little bigger than the X2 (mostly in depth due to the non-collapsing lens), it is still just a hair small in my hands and the finish is a touch too smooth without a half-case.

    Oh yeah: I fitted a Street Strap, the new, slightly longer version (52 inch instead of 46 inch) that I had in stock to try out. Umm ... It's six inches too long. It lets me wear the camera bandolier style, but it gets in the way. I'll order another 46 inch version.

    I also finished reading the entire manual. There's not much to it, but there are details that are useful to know. It's a pretty simple camera. In a moment of my usual obsessiveness, I took the distributed PDF manual that has both German and English versions in it and used a PDF editor to trim it to just the cover art, the photos of the camera, the camera control diagrams, and the English language section. I loaded that on my iPad for instant access in case I need it for anything (doubtful).

    Looking through some of the photos I've made with the camera so far (mostly crappy snaps around the condo as I play with controls and become familiar enough with it that I can use it without thinking), I have to say that the lens and image processing signature is right there. The photos have that signature Leica crackle to them. Something between the Standard and Vivid setting JPEGs matches what Lightroom does by default with the DNGs pretty closely. I notice a little bit of image correction in the JPEGs and it's pretty obvious that the Leica X is not yet provided with an optimized camera calibration profile in Lightroom. I may create one (Xrite Passport software and a Color Checker) until Adobe gets around to it.

    The manual focusing system is what I'd hoped for: precise, nice feel, very easy to get along with. A subtle thing is that you get the DoF preview together with the AE-Lock when you half-press the shutter release. Nice.

    I just fitted my Voigtländer 35mm optical viewfinder and set the AF system on, and to 11-point mode, set at fixed ISO 200. I have a user preference setup for B&W JPEGs + DNG. That's how I use the X2 most of the time, and how I'll likely use this most of the time too. The camera becomes smaller with the optical viewfinder instead of the EVF on it, and I like the clear and empty view.

    Back to other stuff. Photos when I have a moment. More photos when I can manage it.

    onwards,
    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I just fitted my Voigtländer 35mm optical viewfinder and set the AF system on, and to 11-point mode, set at fixed ISO 200. I have a user preference setup for B&W JPEGs + DNG. That's how I use the X2 most of the time, and how I'll likely use this most of the time too. The camera becomes smaller with the optical viewfinder instead of the EVF on it, and I like the clear and empty view.
    I am very tempted to purchase this camera, however a big turn off is the lack of the "opt. viewfinder mode"that used to be present on my X1. Not only it helped to save battery, but also made the camera easier to use indoors by not having the LCD backlight illuminating my face. How are you dealing if this issue, Godfrey? I would love to hear from you. Also, is there the small green led light that was located close to the hot shoe that used to indicate focus lock? It was really helpful on my X1 when using an OVF and having focus confirmation.

    Thanks for sharing your first impressions with us!

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by carlosecpf View Post
    I am very tempted to purchase this camera, however a big turn off is the lack of the "opt. viewfinder mode"that used to be present on my X1. Not only it helped to save battery, but also made the camera easier to use indoors by not having the LCD backlight illuminating my face. How are you dealing if this issue, Godfrey? I would love to hear from you. Also, is there the small green led light that was located close to the hot shoe that used to indicate focus lock? It was really helpful on my X1 when using an OVF and having focus confirmation.

    Thanks for sharing your first impressions with us!
    In practice, it's not much of a bother. Just like with the X1/X2, the LCD blacks out at the moment of exposure so there's no light being cast from your face into the scene. (I used to leave the X2's LCD on most of the time, even when I was using the optical finder, for quick access to focusing on difficult scenes.)

    No, the green in-focus indicating light is gone. I think it's pretty clear that Leica intends this camera to be used either sans viewfinder or with the EVF. The fact that I'm now using it with an optical finder just pushes me into the forefront of camera perversity, I guess. I can always hear the AF servos going and when they stop, so I never heeded the green indicator light anyway. Half the time I have the camera zone focused too... ;-)

    First picture up from Saturday's walk...
    Leica X - "The Picnic Table Between the Trees"

    onwards!

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ...
    No, the green in-focus indicating light is gone.
    ...
    Hmm. Actually, there is a green status light that, according to the manual, should indicate focus/exposure lock (on solid) or inability to establish focus/exposure lock (flashing) in a position were it should be visible when using an OVF. However, on the X I have, it only illuminates AFTER the exposure is made.

    There seem to be a couple other anomalies compared to the manual description.

    - No GPS data is written to my files with the EVF in place. It never shows that it was able to link to the GPS satellites.

    - I've set auto-review to OFF. But it's not actually off, it seems to always flash the last exposure made for a second or so on the LCD.

    Now that I see the status light has another anomaly, I wonder if this particular unit has defects. Jono ... anyone else who's bought one ... what do yours do in these circumstances? Time to call Leica USA I guess.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Hmm. Actually, there is a green status light that, according to the manual, should indicate focus/exposure lock (on solid) or inability to establish focus/exposure lock (flashing) in a position were it should be visible when using an OVF. However, on the X I have, it only illuminates AFTER the exposure is made.

    There seem to be a couple other anomalies compared to the manual description.

    - No GPS data is written to my files with the EVF in place. It never shows that it was able to link to the GPS satellites.

    - I've set auto-review to OFF. But it's not actually off, it seems to always flash the last exposure made for a second or so on the LCD.

    Now that I see the status light has another anomaly, I wonder if this particular unit has defects. Jono ... anyone else who's bought one ... what do yours do in these circumstances? Time to call Leica USA I guess.

    G
    Hi Godfrey
    Interesting - I never used an optical viewfinder, so that this information is new to me - what's more, I have a prototype EVF which never did GPS well.

    I'll check this evening and see if mine performs the same way.

    If so - I'm sure there'll be a firmware update before too long and I'll get it put on the list.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Thanks Jono! I just sent you a copy of what I sent to Leica USA Technical Support. Hopefully you can get some traction going with a couple of these things so we see a fix in the near future.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Hi Godfrey,

    I checked mine and you are right the auto review off isn't off. It is one second.

    I couldn't find the green focus light other than the square indicator going green when you do focus on something, which I can see when I glance down from the Optical View Finder (sort of). I couldn't find a reference to anything else in the owner manual on this. What page were you referring to?

    Lastly, I don't have the EVF (at least yet) so no help on that part.

    Good sleuthing though.

    Dave

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    Hi Godfrey,

    I checked mine and you are right the auto review off isn't off. It is one second.

    I couldn't find the green focus light other than the square indicator going green when you do focus on something, which I can see when I glance down from the Optical View Finder (sort of). I couldn't find a reference to anything else in the owner manual on this. What page were you referring to?

    Lastly, I don't have the EVF (at least yet) so no help on that part.

    Good sleuthing though.

    Dave
    Thanks Dave!

    The green focus indicator light is shown in the illustration in the manual cover (item #20) and described on page 102 in the German-English version of the manual PDF:

    20. Status LED
    a. Flashing: Distance setting not possible / writing or reading picture data
    b. Continuously lit: Distance and exposure setting completed and saved

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Thanks Godfrey!

    Jono and Godfrey,

    I have just learned from Steve Huff's website that the maximum aperture possible in some situations (1.2 meter or less) is not f/1.7, but f/2.5 or 2.8, even if you set the aperture manually at f/1.7 . Is that true?

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by carlosecpf View Post
    I have just learned from Steve Huff's website that the maximum aperture possible in some situations (1.2 meter or less) is not f/1.7, but f/2.5 or 2.8, even if you set the aperture manually at f/1.7 . Is that true?
    Yes. The maximum aperture is stopped down in a curve by increments from 1.42 to 0.42 m to maintain the best lens performance. It goes from f/1.7-1.8-2.0-2.2-2.5-2.8 @ 0.42 m, then hold f2.8 to minimum focus @ 0.2 m. Here's a chart of the curve I made some days ago:


    This behavior is fully documented in the instruction manual. It's the same thing the Leica Summilux-T 23mm f/2 ASPH does, for the same reason.

    Steve Huff went all goofy about it, calling it a major defect and all that nonsense. I don't know about you or anyone else, but something like this that allows my camera to make nicer photos while having zero effect on any practical use of the camera is all right by me. :-)

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Yes. The maximum aperture is stopped down in a curve by increments from 1.42 to 0.42 m to maintain the best lens performance. It goes from f/1.7-1.8-2.0-2.2-2.5-2.8 @ 0.42 m, then hold f2.8 to minimum focus @ 0.2 m. Here's a chart of the curve I made some days ago:


    This behavior is fully documented in the instruction manual. It's the same thing the Leica Summilux-T 23mm f/2 ASPH does, for the same reason.

    Steve Huff went all goofy about it, calling it a major defect and all that nonsense. I don't know about you or anyone else, but something like this that allows my camera to make nicer photos while having zero effect on any practical use of the camera is all right by me. :-)

    G
    "....... effect on any practical use..... " is the key statement. There is practical use in which the light gathering difference between 1.7 and 2.8 or ability to throw back-or foreground out of focus can indeed have an effect.
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    "....... effect on any practical use..... " is the key statement. There is practical use in which the light gathering difference between 1.7 and 2.8 or ability to throw back-or foreground out of focus can indeed have an effect.
    It's not worth debating. This affects the range of distances from 48" and closer. I see very little to no useful need for wide open aperture at those distances—the usual problem is getting enough DoF, not too much. And with a sensor that operates at ISO 6400 and higher so cleanly, there's hardly need for even more light gathering power.

    But if you do find it problematic for some reason, that's all right too: just don't buy this camera. There are plenty of cameras on the market to choose from.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It's not worth debating. This affects the range of distances from 48" and closer. I see very little to no useful need for wide open aperture at those distances—the usual problem is getting enough DoF, not too much. And with a sensor that operates at ISO 6400 and higher so cleanly, there's hardly need for even more light gathering power.

    But if you do find it problematic for some reason, that's all right too: just don't buy this camera. There are plenty of cameras on the market to choose from.

    G
    I have the camera, since about 3 weeks. And can speak from practical experience. For my needs, iso 1600 is as high as go with this sensor.
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    I have the camera, since about 3 weeks. And can speak from practical experience. For my needs, iso 1600 is as high as go with this sensor.
    I have the Leica X typ 113 too, as well as the X2 model.

    Again, I disagree. I've been shooting with the Leica X2 since 2012 (same sensor) and know this sensor very well indeed. Here are my noise tests, checking noise from ISO 12500 to ISO 800:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ise/index.html
    The noise characteristics even at ISO 12500 are quite good; ISO 6400 works very well indeed.

    Of course, it's not utterly smooth and noiseless at those extreme ISO settings, but to my eye it produces a beautiful image.. If it's insufficiently quiet for you, that's your issue. I'd sell the X and buy something else more suitable for you tastes rather than be dissatisfied and complain about it.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I have the Leica X typ 113 too, as well as the X2 model.

    Again, I disagree. I've been shooting with the Leica X2 since 2012 (same sensor) and know this sensor very well indeed. Here are my noise tests, checking noise from ISO 12500 to ISO 800:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ise/index.html
    The noise characteristics even at ISO 12500 are quite good; ISO 6400 works very well indeed.

    Of course, it's not utterly smooth and noiseless at those extreme ISO settings, but to my eye it produces a beautiful image.. If it's insufficiently quiet for you, that's your issue. I'd sell the X and buy something else more suitable for you tastes rather than be dissatisfied and complain about it.

    G
    I`m amused. I did not express any dissatisfaction with the camera, but made matter of fact statements.
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Yes. The maximum aperture is stopped down in a curve by increments from 1.42 to 0.42 m to maintain the best lens performance. It goes from f/1.7-1.8-2.0-2.2-2.5-2.8 @ 0.42 m, then hold f2.8 to minimum focus @ 0.2 m. Here's a chart of the curve I made some days ago:


    This behavior is fully documented in the instruction manual. It's the same thing the Leica Summilux-T 23mm f/2 ASPH does, for the same reason.

    Steve Huff went all goofy about it, calling it a major defect and all that nonsense. I don't know about you or anyone else, but something like this that allows my camera to make nicer photos while having zero effect on any practical use of the camera is all right by me. :-)

    G
    I don't know that he was going all goofy on Leica so much as calling the marketing misleading for most when the f/1.7 lens is the part that's being highlighted. If it's in the manual that is good that they are forthcoming about that however most don't read the instruction manual until AFTER they bought the product. Yes some are available but if it were not for these discussions highlighting this limitation than most wouldn't know about it. As for whether the f/2.8 is good enough - well maybe it is but then there's no need to come out with an f/1.7 version either. I don't think most people spend more money on faster lenses to only use them at smaller apertures. They probably would save the money and buy the lens with a smaller aperture.

    I agree that arguing over the design is somewhat pointless and if the design doesn't work for you then you probably shouldn't buy/keep it. I wonder if a floating lens element design would've allowed Leica the ability for the X to shoot wide open at all distances though as well.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Reading through this lens aperture story of the new Leica X is just unbelievable how they dare to bring such a product to market. Fortunately I did not buy this camera (had no interest anyway on it) but this should never have happened!
    Life is an ever changing journey
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    I`m amused. I did not express any dissatisfaction with the camera, but made matter of fact statements.
    I'm glad you're amused.

    I didn't say otherwise: Your opinions are matter of fact, but they imply that you're dissatisfied with the camera based on its noise characteristics and lens behavior.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    I knew about the lens' behavior at close range within an hour of the camera being announced. It was described in at least two places besides the manual. It is no secret.

    Instead of going all goofy over whether you can use f/1.7 at the very near range, I'd have gone all goofy over the extraordinary quality of the lens. I've been comparing it to the X2's Elmarit 24mm and my Summicron-R 35mm f/2, my other two Leica lenses providing the same field of view on their respective format cameras. The Summilux 23/1.7 is at least on par to both of them, and a better performer than the Elmarit 24 at least. It has the same beautiful rendering as the Summicron-R 35 (fitted to the Sony A7) without some of the very slight edge/corner issues that surface with that lens/sensor combination until I stop it down to f/2.8-4.

    Whether Leica has used a floating element design I don't know ... they might have incorporated it into the internal focusing system.

    All I can say is that I'm satisfied with the camera and the lens performance. My first few hundred exposures testing it have shown great potential. There are a few firmware bugs that I've reported, hopefully those will be addressed in due course, but even with them there's little I find wrong with the camera or its performance.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Same with any "new" item Godfrey, there will be those that love it, those that don't, such is this world. Each to their own.

    Me? I'm headed to the big smoke on Monday, and will stop off at the Leica dealership to handle/drool/etc the newer stuff. Hopefully they will have the new X as well, as it really is something I lust for. OK, I lust for an MM, but that is unobtainable right now, the X isn't.

    The "variable" aperture isn't a concern, and as most have said, at close distances DoF is what you want, not the other way round. If I have a concern at all, it is that the X will replicate and make redundant my beloved X1. That was why I was contemplating the T.

    Enjoy your new X. (sounds like you are anyway)
    Gary

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gbealnz View Post
    Same with any "new" item Godfrey, there will be those that love it, those that don't, such is this world. Each to their own.
    ...
    If I have a concern at all, it is that the X will replicate and make redundant my beloved X1.
    ...
    Indeed. And there seem to be those who will find fault with anything just for the pleasure of being contrary.

    The X is so nice to use that I have to admit I haven't taken the X2 out since the X arrived. Which is a shame since the X2 is quite a nice piece of kit.

    Anyway, so far my feelings are positive. I've sent four bug reports/feature enhancements in but none of them are show stoppers; just nuances in camera operation. :-)

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'm glad you're amused.

    I didn't say otherwise: Your opinions are matter of fact, but they imply that you're dissatisfied with the camera based on its noise characteristics and lens behavior.

    G
    "Imply" is a product of perception influenced by the reader`s selective attention mechanisms and expectations. Reality and Perception, often don`t go hand in hand.

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    "Imply" is a product of perception influenced by the reader`s selective attention mechanisms and expectations. Reality and Perception, often don`t go hand in hand.
    LOL! Are you always this pedantic? :-)
    As one pedant to another, it's probably best to lay off statements of the so very obvious and concentrate on adding value to the discussion.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    I just got back from 5 days in Nashville with the M and X2 shooting at day downtown and at night in blues bar and other dim places.
    The x2 did extraordinary well in regards of handling, color and IQ (Even though I usually try to stay at ISO 1600 and lower if possible with this camera).
    Switching between the x2 and the M the M suddenly appeared heavy to me and
    it was a joy to use the X2.
    If the X is the same IQ or better with a faster lens I am sure its a great camera.
    Yes, I prefer the X2 due to the smaller size, but on the other side having f1.7 and a larger screen is nice as well.
    I also believe Leica should have stated more clearly the variable f-stop but since I can live with constant f2.8 I guess I wouldnt see any problem with the variable f-stop of the new X.

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Responding to a person on DPR who accused the X of having a soft lens, I did some resolution testing.

    Setup:

    • Camera set up at 6' distance from my usual target, a very busy bookcase.
    • Image processing settings: Standard, Super Fine JPEG, 16M, + DNG set.
    • ISO locked to 200.
    • Shutter set to A mode.
    • Focus mode set to Spot.
    • Camera on sturdy tripod. Each frame exposed with 2 second delay.
    • Series 1: Each frame is allowed to AF on the same target.
    • Series 2: Manual focus on target point, focus setting not touched throughout test afterwards.
    • Each frame stepped the lens aperture, first from f/1.7 to f/2, then in whole stops to f/16.

    Results:

    • Examining the JPEGs at center, right edge, and top left corner, ALL frames are acceptably sharp and crisp. The right edge and top left corner improve slightly from f/1.7 to f/4, center is virtually unchanged. A small degraded (presumably diffraction) sets in at f/11.
      *

    • Examining the DNG files, processed at the LR 5.6 defaults (sharpening = 25 on LR's), all frames show distinct need for input sharpening with slightly soft rendering through all apertures. Moving the sharpening to 40 nets nets sharpness equal to the JPEGs at all aperture settings. Moving the sharpening to 50 nets increased sharpness with minimal halo'ing, again all frames.(For example, even at f/1.7, 5 point type locate in the corner of the frame at 6' distance is clearly readable with 2:1 magnification). This implies that the Leica X sensor has a medium strength AA filter, since the same correction produces the same improvement across all apertures. It also demonstrates that focus shift is extremely minimal (via the manual focus tests).

    The same test of the X2 in 2012 showed significantly more variation in corner and edge quality from f/2.8 to f/5.6, and also needed additional sharpening of the DNG files, of a similar nature, determining again that the X2 has similar strength AA filter.

    When next I have time to do so, I will repeat the same test with the Leica M9 and the Color Skopar 35mm f/2.5 and the Sony A7 fitted with Leica Summicron-R 35mm f/2. (I don't have a Summicron or Summilux 35mm in M mount at my disposal at present.) It will be interesting to see how those two compare.

    But be that as it may, I cannot see any evidence to support the statement that "the lens is soft and only starts to deliver the 'Leica-magic' from f/5.6." As far as my test shows, the Summilux 23mm f/1.7 on the Leica X is a very high quality performer across all f/stops. It's sweet spot is broad, best performance ranging from f/2.8 to f/11 when diffraction starts to intrude on ultimate resolving power.

    Beyond the evidence of this resolution test, I was at the annual All Italian Day car and motorcycle show with the Leica X today. I made about 80 exposures at all apertures, using primarily autofocus on "Face Detect/11 frame pattern" mode. Every frame is crisply, clearly focused, and all frames show beautiful sharpness. At the wide open end of the spectrum, defocus bokeh is beautifully progressive and lacks any jangly feeling even wide open.

    IMO, this is a stunner of a lens, fully deserving of the name Summilux.

    (Unfortunately, pictures will have to wait. I have other commitments this evening and best get to them now. Maybe later if I get done early. )

    G
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Photos from All Italian Day with the Leica X typ 113 are here:

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/51...tml#post606245

    enjoy!
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    I'm enjoying the Leica X quite a lot, I'm keeping it. It resonates with my, it's a "just right" camera.

    Two more bits for the kit arrived ... the Leica optical viewfinder (larger and with a bit more eye relief than the Voigtländer; easier to use with my glasses) and a second battery.

    Just waiting for the Arte di Mano half case to arrive and that's it. :-)

    G
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Hi Godfrey,
    I wouldnt worry about the lens at all.
    If there is one thing where I trust Leicas it is lenses and I go even further its image quality.
    If you never saw anything that bothers you why even run testing.

    Yesterday I took images with an A7s+Zeiss 24-70 and my Leica T with Zoom, side by side, just to come to the conclusion that I like the results from both ( I would have liked a clear winner). I am not saying both equally but both very good IQ.
    I might slightly prefer the A7s IQ and color in some images, but in others the T-Zoom renders very nice.

    On a recent trip shooting the X2 and the M (x2 when I didnt want to carry a camera bag, which was quite often)...One image from the M + 50APO stood out in regards of color and 3D look but overall all images from the X2 where totally fine for me.

    What I am trying to say is that many cameras have become soo good that some slight differences in IQ are not really relevant any more (IMO).

    My biggest minus for the X-cameras and T is the delay after taking an image. But I guess I can/have to live with that.

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    ...
    I wouldnt worry about the lens at all.
    ...
    My biggest minus for the X-cameras and T is the delay after taking an image. But I guess I can/have to live with that.
    I've not been at all worried about the Summilux lens on the X or its image qualities. I test as a matter of course with any new camera to learn it and see what its strengths and weaknesses are. :-)

    The interframe pause is a bit long on the X but not intrusively, and it might be addressable in a firmware revision. Just like I hope they address the other three-four bugs I've filed.

    All of these bugs are minor nits in the larger scheme of things. The Leica X typ 113 is a very good camera that suits my uses very well indeed. I was only concerned that it wasn't going to be enough different from the X2 that it wasn't worth the price, but it is clearly a superior performer that I like using even more.

    G
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    After a month of using the X typ 113 only, I pulled out the X2 for a few days. The X2, even with half case fitted, is noticeably smaller and a trifle lighter. The Voigtländer 35mm OVF fits it a bit better too. But then I picked up the X again and ... Ah, Satori!

    Honestly, if your interest is in buying a digital M body on which you'll fit a 35mm Summilux and nothing else, buy the Leica X instead. Put the OVF on it, set it to Face Detect AF, and just go shooting. If you want to, fit the EVF for more precision in framing and exposure preview, etc, or just use the LCD for that. Despite the format and DoF differences, you'll likely find few differences in your photographs, you'll have spent a fraction of what the M+Summilux costs, and you'll likely carry the camera more as it is smaller and lighter.

    Now, the negative side of the X after using it, using it as I would my only camera, for a month:

    - I've completely given up on the GPS feature with the EVF until a firmware update. No matter how long I have the EVF fitted and the camera powered up, the GPS unit in the EVF never connects with the satellites or embeds other than all zeros in the EXIF data. If anyone else has see it connect, I'd be interested to know.

    - I like the EVF, and find it occasionally useful. But, it adds a lot of bulk to the camera and tends to get caught on the bag as I take the camera in and out. It also consumes a healthy bit of battery power. I use it only infrequently as a result, preferring to use an OVF.

    - My OVF for the X switched from the Voigtländer to the Leica unit. The Leica unit is easier to get my eye behind with glasses on and presents a larger, clearer image. But it's a bit wider apparent FoV, closer to the actual lens FoV, so framing with it is a bit more critical. In particular, you have to watch the 'near distance' marking at the top of the frame and make sure that nothing critical runs over that at any distance below 6' or so or it will be clipped out of the frame. Easy to get used to, but also easy to mess up occasionally. The Voigtländer 35mm shows a tighter apparent FoV (the lens is probably 15% wider coverage) so this rarely happens with it.

    - All of the controls on the X take a very light touch. And despite the camera being a bit larger than the X2, it's a bit easier to accidentally press the menu button now and then. (Sorry Leica, but that should be the center button on the four way controller or a separate button in a different location; it's too easy to hit it by mistake and accidentally change a setting without even knowing which one you changed.) Ideally, the controls should all have slightly heavier springs and detents. When my Arte di Mano half case arrives, this will get better as the additional size of the half case and the finger rest it provides will let me handle the camera more easily without hitting buttons by accident. (That's what I find with the X2's A&A half case too.)

    I didn't mention the other three bugs I found, but still ... that's a pretty short list of negatives; the positives are far longer.

    I'm very pleased with this purchase. A small bag with it and the M4-2 + Color-Skopar 35mm lens will make a light, handy, digital+film traveling kit. :-)

    G
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Thank you Godfrey.
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    I took the X to a Halloween party last evening. Snapped a few photos there, most without flash. Learned two things:

    - The in-camera JPEG engine is very very good. It produced a bunch of out-of-camera JPEGs at ISO 3200 made in extraordinarily weird light that look great. It's a bit challenging to replicate the same thing with Lightroom from the raw, although possible (near-saturated red or blue channel exposures...).

    - I should have used the EVF. In examining the 30+ exposures I made, I see about five that would be great but the AF latched onto the wrong thing. Now, this was all in Program Mode exposure with auto ISO and AWB, AF set to 11pt. I should have thought to switch it to Face Detect. Plus most of the exposures were at light levels requiring ISO 3200 and f/1.7 to f/2.2 ... pretty challenging circumstances. Oh yes, focus assist illuminator off too... just to make it work a bit harder. ;-)

    Using the EVF would not have improved the AF performance, but I would have seen instantly that it acquired the wrong target and just adjusted with manual focus. I did that on three occasions using the LCD and all of them are razor sharp.
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    I had a chance to play with this camera today, but mainly as an assessment of ergonomics, build.

    The camera felt nice. It weights less than I expected. I really like the controls and I like the resistance on the focus ring. I was a bit surprised that I saw more plastic in more areas than I expected but at least it did not feel "cringy" or sub-par.

    A bit disappointed with the aperture changing to F2.8 as you go closer. It's unfortunate because it could have made for nicer portraits, but at least for shooting at night (my interest), you can still shoot F1.7 and focus with reasonable scene coverage.

    I could be wrong- but did not see the flash being able to be bounced (by pulling it back once opened). Thickness wise it seemed a bit big to me, but then it's an F1.7 lens.

    I liked the down to Earth menus and the fast response of them. I always look for that.

    In the end, I doubt I would go for one for a few reasons. I realize this is Leica we are talking about so it will be pricey, but at the asking price of $2295+ USD ($2495?), with no view finder, and the lens aperture issue, I find really really hard to pick over say, a Fuji X100t.

    The Fuji X100(x) lens series is pretty good, I would expect the Leica lens to be better. I could not take pictures but what I saw showing on the LCD looked very nice with very good tonality in B&W. Another advantage it would have over the Fuji is that the Fuji Xtrans cameras (not sure if the non-xtrans A1 included) run about 1/2 to 2/3rds of a stop ISO wise behind the other cameras.... (note: current Olympus m4/3rds also runs behind but by 1/3rd to 1/2 a stop).

    So the Leica taking a shot at ISO say 4000 would require Fuji to dial 64000. Combine that with F1.7 for wide coverage at night and the Leica does have one advantage over the Fuji there. But the Fuji also has so much other things... photographic wise.

    Anyhow, I was intrigued, had a chance to check it out. Seems like a nice camera, just wished Leica had an OVF on it at the asking price (by that I mean built into the body, not an attachment).

    - Ricardo
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Raist,
    I once haad an original Fuji X100 and a X-Pro 1.
    I also have x2 and X-Vario.
    The Leica X have a different color signature than Fuji. I prefer Leica but I guess its a matter of taste and one should look at images.
    From the handling side I think the Leica X-Line is more simple and intuitive, on the other side the optical viewfinder of the X100 (s/t) with parallex correction and showing where the camera has focused is a big plus for the Fuji IMO.
    Personally I will stay with the X2 at the moment because I really like the smaller size.

  37. #87
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Jono, I enjoyed all your new articles about the new Leica cameras and find the Leica X, D-LUX, and V-LUX all very attractive as a complement to the M system. My question is which one of those three you liked the best and why. I think I'll probably get the D-LUX but not quite certain...

  38. #88
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Jono, I enjoyed all your new articles about the new Leica cameras and find the Leica X, D-LUX, and V-LUX all very attractive as a complement to the M system. My question is which one of those three you liked the best and why. I think I'll probably get the D-LUX but not quite certain...
    I'm not Jono, but ... ;-)

    I have had the Leica X type 113 for about a month now. It is just what I was looking for... right size, right build, etc etc. It is an excellent complement to the M9.

    But what would be a superb complement to it is the V-Lux ... the X for single camera/prime lens goodness, the V-Lux for maximum focal length versatility.

    G
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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Jono, I enjoyed all your new articles about the new Leica cameras and find the Leica X, D-LUX, and V-LUX all very attractive as a complement to the M system. My question is which one of those three you liked the best and why. I think I'll probably get the D-LUX but not quite certain...
    HI There Amin
    Sorry to be so slow in replying. Well, I suppose if you're going to have one of them, then perhaps the V-lux is best because it gives you so many more options (hardly fits in a pocket though!).

    I really liked all three of them - personally 35mm isn't my focal length, but if there was a 50 then I'd really like that. The D-lux is great - but I'd be using my M for those focal lengths.

    All the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    The Ongoing Leica X typ 113 Saga ...

    - Still loving it. It's my go to camera now.

    - Getting comfortable using Manual exposure with AutoISO a bit lately ... Handy! It's funny because when I had the Pentax K10D with TAv mode, I couldn't think of a way to use it effectively, but it's so natural to use with the X. Just set the aperture and exposure time you want to shoot at, turn on AutoISO and let sensitivity slide to accommodate. Works very well.

    - The Arte di Mano half-case for X Vario and X typ 113 in Bordo Red that I ordered on October 3 finally shipped today, should be here early next week. Yay!

    The X is inspiring me to simplify and pare down the equipment jumble in the closet. It's amazing what you can do with a camera that doesn't get in the way and just gives you good reason to shoot.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    I love the X (Type 113). I use it with the new visoflex. All the talk about "I wish there was a build inn viewfinder" is for me no problem. I like the freedom to choose between with or without. My only wish is the "missing ae Lock button".
    What is the idea of not having that option? I know that I can go full manuel, but on my other cameras my workflow is aperture mode, spotmetering, ae Lock and then compose.
    Maybe there is and possibillity that Leica could fix this in firmware?
    Sorry for my poor English ( I am a newbee here and from Denmark)

    BS
    Kim

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Welcome to the forum, Kim. Your English is just fine!

    Quote Originally Posted by kiw View Post
    ... My only wish is the "missing ae Lock button".
    What is the idea of not having that option? I know that I can go full manuel, but on my other cameras my workflow is aperture mode, spotmetering, ae Lock and then compose.
    Maybe there is and possibillity that Leica could fix this in firmware? ...
    A separate AE-Lock would be nice, but what button would you assign it to? I'm not sure how they can do it in firmware without giving up some other function.

    AE is locked with the half-press of the shutter release, so it begs a slightly different shooting workflow:
    - target the AF and exposure system
    - half press the shutter release
    - re-frame and release the shutter
    or
    - focus manually
    - target the exposure system
    - half-press the shutter release
    - re-frame and release the shutter

    Perhaps a little different from having a separate AE-Lock button, but it works ok.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Thank you Godfrey!

    What about the "down bottom " on the 4 way pad. It seems that to be unused ?

    I know the other tecnichs, but i still feel it to be a little bit aqaurd, when i am used to do it the other way around.

    BR
    Kim

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Quote Originally Posted by kiw View Post
    Thank you Godfrey!

    What about the "down bottom " on the 4 way pad. It seems that to be unused ?

    I know the other tecnichs, but i still feel it to be a little bit aqaurd, when i am used to do it the other way around.
    Hmm. I didn't think of that. If it can be targeted as an independent entity in the firmware, that provides an option. Although it's not in a great place for an AE-Lock or AF-Lock button.

    We'll see what they do when the firmware update comes out.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Good news: the Arte di Mano half-case for the Leica X arrived this evening. It is beautiful, a superb fit and lovely finish. Feels great in the hand, gives me that "little bit more" to hold onto and a good gripping surface.

    Nice! :-)

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Here's a snap of the X with half-case fitted, courtesy one iPhone 4S...


    It fits beautifully, as well as the A&A half-cases: very secure without being too snug or difficult to get on and off.

    G

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    Re: New Leica X (Typ 113)

    Just got the Leica grip for my X Vario and my X Typ 113. All I can do is agree with Godfrey:"Ah, Satori!"

    Makes a fantastic change for the ergonomics. Also got the hood for X Vario and that looks quite good as well.. Decent pair for upcoming trip to Teneriffe (starting this sunday).

    //Juha

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