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Thread: Monochrom sensor problem?

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    Senior Member xdayv's Avatar
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    Monochrom sensor problem?

    Help, help!

    I was planning to send my MM for a CLA at the nearest Leica service center (HK), I've been seeing these nasty sensor dust spots that can't be removed by the usual bulb blower. When I emailed to the authorized Leica service center (HK), with the attached screenshot below, the reply was;

    "Dear Dave,
    I think that your sensor problem should be sensor coating problem and that must need to replace a new sensor.
    As the sensor from Leica Germany was lack of supplying so all of our customers might take around 6 months for new sensor replacement so that you cannot take it back before <date>.
    This replacement will be free of charge as this sensor problem was under Leica goodwill service.
    However, you need to collect it back by yourself or the person you authorized after repair as we do not provide delivery service to oversea countries."


    I'm not quite convinced on the "sensor coating problem" as stated above. Need your advice on what to do next... I can't imagine having w/o my MM for the next 6 months, but if this is the best way to move forward, then I'll have to do it...

    Kindest,
    Dave

    http://www.xdayv.com

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Dave

    See here: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/51...sor-clean.html

    That's pretty much what I was seeing - no longer a problem.

    Hope this helps

    Ray
    "There are always two people in every picture: the photographer and the viewer." - Ansel Adams
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    Senior Member xdayv's Avatar
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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReeRay View Post
    Dave

    See here: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/51...sor-clean.html

    That's pretty much what I was seeing - no longer a problem.

    Hope this helps

    Ray
    Ray, thanks! You are quite brave, I did wet clean before on DSLRs, but can't imagine this on the RF. I'll exhaust my options first.
    Kindest,
    Dave

    http://www.xdayv.com

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    The sensor of the M240 is a CMOS against the CCD of the MM! Don't mix up these two sensors. After more and more sensors of M9/P and MM/M-E are dying, Leica made a semi-official statement in the LUF.


    It seems that from now on the free of charge replacement of sensors is limited by certain purchase dates.
    Here the post:

    "Based on this thread, we feel the need to clarifying a couple of things about the sensor marks issue you have been experiencing. The issue is linked with corrosion effects on the cover glass of the CCD sensor in Leica M9, M9-P, M Monochrom and M-E cameras. They manifest themselves as marks on images captured at smaller apertures (f/5.6-22). The new Leica M (Type 240) with the CMOS sensor is not affected by this problem. We are truly sorry for the inconvenience encountered and we have set up the following scheme for servicing the sensors of the products affected. Please be aware that a contact-free cleaning of the sensor is essential in preventing the issue.

    • Customer care will perform sensor cleaning free of charge by prior arrangement.
    • In the case of damage as a result of corrosion, the sensor will be replaced free of charge up to three years following the date of purchase. Leica Camera AG will cover the full costs of replacement, amounting to 1,800 euros plus applicable VAT. This does not apply to sensors damaged by scratching or breakage of the sensor glass.
    • In the fourth and fifth year following the date of purchase, sensors damaged by the corrosion effects described will be replaced for a fixed charge of 600 euros plus applicable VAT. Leica Camera AG will cover the remaining costs of 1,200 euros.
    • In the sixth and seventh year following the date of purchase, sensor replacement will be offered at a fixed charge of 1,200 euros plus applicable VAT. Leica Camera AG will cover the remaining costs of 600 euros.
    • For the eighth and more years following the date of purchase, sensor replacement will be offered at a fixed charge of 1,500 euros plus applicable VAT. Leica Camera AG will cover the remaining costs of 300 euros.
    • The prices stated apply for direct shipment of the camera to Leica Customer Care in Wetzlar or the Customer Care department of a national distributor. Additional costs may arise when the camera is sent to Leica through a dealer.
    • Mandatory warranty conditions will apply after customers have taken advantage of the extended goodwill arrangement.
    • As longer waiting times may otherwise occur, the camera should only be sent to Customer Care after prior arrangement.

    We will continue watching this thread so you are welcome to react here.

    ^JJ with Leica-camera"

    After some days the 2. official statement:

    The new official statement from Mr. Viau/Leica:

    "As promised, we´d like to address a number of questions you have regarding the issue with our CCD sensor and be as clear as possible.

    First let us state that we regret any inconveniences you may face and do investigate measures to durably fix the problem while still offering the best possible optical performance.

    By a repair, we replace the CCD sensor with a sensor of the same type we use for serial production. We can thus not exclude totally a new case of corrosion after repair. Therefore, the goodwill arrangement also applies for a replaced sensor, which shows signs of corrosion. In these cases we will consider the sensor replacement date the same as the purchasing date.

    We think that any potential damages of the sensor surface can occur due to cleaning the sensor and can lead to corrosion. We, therefore, advice to clean the sensor without touching it or in a dust-free environment such as in Leica Customer Care. We don’t want to convey the impression that you are not able to clean the sensor yourselves. If you are confident performing a sensor cleaning yourself, you may do so. But please be aware that the risk, when using wet cleaning solutions in the field, is higher.

    At Leica, we use “Isopropanol” (isopropyl alcohol) and the following tools to clean the sensor, in the production as well as by the Customer Care:
    Pentax Image Sensor Cleaning Kit, O-ICK1:
    Sensor Cleaning Kit
    Cleaning swabs made by ‘Visible Dust’:
    Camera sensor cleaning — Arctic Butterfly sensor brush, loupe, swabs, liquids

    With great care and attention, you may also use these for cleaning the sensor yourselves. Essential for not damaging the sensor is to painstakingly observe the manufacturers’ instructions and only work with new and unsoiled cleaning aids.
    We kindly ask you for your understanding that sensors showing visible mechanical scratch marks occurring from improper cleaning attempts cannot be covered by the warranty and goodwill arrangement.
    This is also the reason why we offer to perform cleaning at the Leica Customer Care, free of charge and as often as needs to be.

    Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement.

    JJ Viau - Digital Marketing with Stefan Daniel - Director Product Management Photo
    Leica Camera"
    Last edited by silverbullet; 1st December 2014 at 08:54. Reason: add

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Hmmm, I'm not sure this is 100% satisfactory. When you market a costly product as made with great care, I don't think you have the option of putting timeline on repairing a 'congenital defect.'

    A number of us had M9s with sensors that cracked with no impact. To my knowledge, Leica is still fixing this defect free of charge, despite expiration of the warranty.

    There's an old story about a man whose Rolls gave out in the Alps. Rolls came to the rescue, and he expected a bill. When none arrived he inquired, and the reply was 'We have no record of a Rolls with difficulty in the Alps.'
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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    at those times the internet was not invented….
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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    After the usual inept initial statement from Leica they as usual retracted the bulk of it to give a more balanced view. Sensor cleaning is possible for anybody with any common sense, but you should stick by the traditional advice of only using a tiny drop of cleaning fluid and not sloshing it around so the fluid runs outside the imaging area.

    So the panic that gripped the internet for a week to the obvious delight of the usual Leica bashers has now abated and shouldn't be revived.

    To the OP, if you have cleaned a sensor before I don't understand what makes the rangefinder sensor any different? I think what you have is sticky dust and possibly some oil and a blower will not remove it. A blower is a bad idea anyway as you've no control of where the dust gets blown, what logic makes people imagine it blows out of the camera for instance?

    Steve
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_barnett/
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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks for the links but that forum is annoying in that one can not see any pics unless logged in.

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    I don't understand what makes the rangefinder sensor any different?
    thats what all the discussions and bashing is about...

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    There are differences which are touted as a feature when it comes to IQ and the very same factors affect the robustness. These have been discussed at length.

    The sensor does not crack. The sensor's cover glass gets damaged.

    At some point, I plan to take the cover glass off and replace it with a fused silica plate to be able shoot from UV to IR.
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    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    They seem to be on the dust shaker, K-H. The chances of getting it "on the sensor" are zero as the sensor has 1. A hermetically sealed clear cover glass 2. A two component UV-IR cut filter 3. Dust shaker.

    The dust shaker's special anti stick coatings are easily damaged by using cleaning fluids that is not iso-propanol. Over use of solvents leave those spots.

    This is totally different than the Leica sensor and its cover plate (which is also the UV-IR cut filter).
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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    Hmmm, I'm not sure this is 100% satisfactory. When you market a costly product as made with great care, I don't think you have the option of putting timeline on repairing a 'congenital defect.'

    A number of us had M9s with sensors that cracked with no impact. To my knowledge, Leica is still fixing this defect free of charge, despite expiration of the warranty.

    There's an old story about a man whose Rolls gave out in the Alps. Rolls came to the rescue, and he expected a bill. When none arrived he inquired, and the reply was 'We have no record of a Rolls with difficulty in the Alps.'
    In another version of this (apocryphal) story, a spring breaks and gets replaced. When enquiring about the bill for this, the customer was told, "Sir, Rolls-Royce springs do not break".
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    They seem to be on the dust shaker, K-H. The chances of getting it "on the sensor" are zero as the sensor has 1. A hermetically sealed clear cover glass 2. A two component UV-IR cut filter 3. Dust shaker.

    The dust shaker's special anti stick coatings are easily damaged by using cleaning fluids that is not iso-propanol. Over use of solvents leave those spots.

    This is totally different than the Leica sensor and its cover plate (which is also the UV-IR cut filter).

    Thanks Vivek!
    Leica's problem is corrosion of the cover glass and not of the sensor itself.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Last edited by Vivek; 10th December 2014 at 15:50. Reason: Edited to cut out a loose sentence.

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Finally word from Stefan Daniel today puts most M9/ME/MM users at rest.

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Finally word from Stefan Daniel today puts most M9/ME/MM users at rest.
    Hopefully it only puts their minds at rest

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Good catch, Jono!
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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    Mine is sent through Schmidt Marketing (official Leica service center in Hong Kong). It will take a couple of months to have it done. They will replace the defective parts for free of charge, but I gotta pay the freight and handling. Will keep you posted, in the meantime, back to my DSLR.
    Kindest,
    Dave

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    Re: Monochrom sensor problem?

    I sent my five years old M9 to Wetzlar two months back when the present policy was not yet in place and Leica Customer Care told me at that time that the sensor was going to be replaced free of charge.
    My M9 is now again with me and I had not to pay anything, not even the shipping which was taken care of by my dealer.
    Ario
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