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Thread: Discount Voucher for Leica M

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    Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Josh at Dale Photo (Leica Miami Store) posted this on reddotforum. I
    thought I should pass it along and also ask the obvious question:

    why the discount now? Is a new M on the horizon?


    Beginning Saturday, November 15, 2014 and running through January 31, 2015, Leica Camera is offering a $750 instant voucher towards the purchase of a brand new Leica M (Typ 240) in black or silver chrome, and a $250 instant voucher towards the purchase of nearly any brand new M-System lens, with the exception of the newly announced f/2.4 Summarits, Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH in Silver Chrome, Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ASPH in Silver Chrome, and the APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH.

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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    The reason might simply be the recent strength of the USD as compared to the Euro and making USD sticker prices look high in comparison.
    Will be interesting to see whether similar discounts will be offered in other markets.
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    I still don't want the M240
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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Bear in mind that 2015 should be the year that the 240 will be replaced.
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    There are also dealers in Europe that offer the M240 with some discount. As much as I hope a new M were to be released soon, I think the current rebate is rather a sign of customers preferring to buy the "new" M-P even though its more expensive than the M. So it seems dealers are not getting rid of their M240's at the regular price.

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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    I would love an M type 240 or M-P type 240. But even with a discount, I don't want to spend the money for it this year.

    G

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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by toyfel View Post
    There are also dealers in Europe that offer the M240 with some discount. As much as I hope a new M were to be released soon, I think the current rebate is rather a sign of customers preferring to buy the "new" M-P even though its more expensive than the M. So it seems dealers are not getting rid of their M240's at the regular price.
    Strangely the M-P is discounted in the UK by a GBP 500 trade in allowance - the M.240 is not discounted.

    I don't like the M.240/M-P body shape and other things, so am skipping the series; this plan allowed me to acquire a M-A.

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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    Bear in mind that 2015 should be the year that the 240 will be replaced.
    If it would sport a BSI sensor, I may be interested. I don't know if their current sensor supplier have that kind of technology.
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If it would sport a BSI sensor, I may be interested. I don't know if their current sensor supplier have that kind of technology.
    I absolutely agree! At least BSI, if not that new APCS sensor technology!
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenInTime View Post
    Strangely the M-P is discounted in the UK by a GBP 500 trade in allowance - the M.240 is not discounted.

    I don't like the M.240/M-P body shape and other things, so am skipping the series; this plan allowed me to acquire a M-A.
    Hmm. Well, in my hands, the M typ 240 and the M9 are virtually indistinguishable in terms of shape and size, only difference being the thumb rest and slightly heavier (larger battery) of the M. But I do like the feel of the film Ms more, which is why I have the M4-2 and the X typ 113.

    G

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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Hmm. Well, in my hands, the M typ 240 and the M9 are virtually indistinguishable in terms of shape and size, only difference being the thumb rest and slightly heavier (larger battery) of the M. But I do like the feel of the film Ms more, which is why I have the M4-2 and the X typ 113.

    G
    I've always thought that the M3 was the ultimate in aesthetics, form following function. The digital Ms are just too thick (and heavy).

    I don't fully understand why the digital Ms are the shape they are. Steve Jobs, it's said, used to chuck prototypes of the iPod into an aquarium; if there was a bubble or two, he told his engineers to make them smaller.

    The Minox 35 and Olympus X series were the ultimate in compact cameras in their day, showing that a size reduction is possible; the Ricoh GR seems to be the nearest equivalent today.

    If the argument is that a digital camera requires space for the electronic gubbins, a battery and a screen; well, it doesn't have a film cassette or a take-up spool, or a pressure plate etc. Even the latest M version without a screen isn't any thinner.
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    I've always thought that the M3 was the ultimate in aesthetics, form following function. The digital Ms are just too thick (and heavy).

    I don't fully understand why the digital Ms are the shape they are. Steve Jobs, it's said, used to chuck prototypes of the iPod into an aquarium; if there was a bubble or two, he told his engineers to make them smaller.
    ...
    If the argument is that a digital camera requires space for the electronic gubbins, a battery and a screen; well, it doesn't have a film cassette or a take-up spool, or a pressure plate etc. Even the latest M version without a screen isn't any thinner.
    The iPod is designed from scratch to be what it is and has no need for mechanical compatibility with lenses. So whether this apocyrphal tale of Steve's design input is true or not, it's not relevant.

    The problem is that the digital Ms have to support the same mount register as the film Ms in order for the lenses to interchange properly, and that the sensor stack plus focal plane shutter is 8 to 9 mm thicker than the pressure plate, film track, and shutter on a film M. That inevitably makes the body 10mm thicker.

    The Sony A7/r/s are very compact FF digital cameras. However, if you look at the Sony A7/r/s, the image plane in the body is 10mm from the back of the body and they've squeezed everything else into as compact a space as possible. Add the M-mount to E-mount adapter tube, and the thickness of the body from lens flange to rear LCD is identical to the digital Ms.

    Leica felt, whether rightly or not, that the style of the digital Ms had to mirror the style of the film Ms. So rather than put a standoff turret for the lens mount on the front, they made the entire body thicker to suit. There are probably issues having to do with the coupling for the mechanical rangefinder that affect these design decisions.

    The LCD screen takes up only a couple of mm at the back of the body housing, so just taking it out doesn't change the basic shape, dictated by the lens mount register and the depth of the shutter/sensor assembly.

    G
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Once one has been using the digital M cameras for a while, the film Ms feel uncomfortably thin.
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Really?! Can't say that even about my Minolta/Leica CL!

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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by craigrudlin View Post
    why the discount now? Is a new M on the horizon?
    Because they need to shift some cameras before the Monochrom version of the M distracts attention from the core model, and of course the demise of the M240 itself in 2015.

    Steve

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    Re: Leica M Aesthetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The problem is that the digital Ms have to support the same mount register as the film Ms in order for the lenses to interchange properly, and that the sensor stack plus focal plane shutter is 8 to 9 mm thicker than the pressure plate, film track, and shutter on a film M. That inevitably makes the body 10mm thicker.
    ...
    Leica felt, whether rightly or not, that the style of the digital Ms had to mirror the style of the film Ms. So rather than put a standoff turret for the lens mount on the front, they made the entire body thicker to suit. There are probably issues having to do with the coupling for the mechanical rangefinder that affect these design decisions.

    The LCD screen takes up only a couple of mm at the back of the body housing, so just taking it out doesn't change the basic shape, dictated by the lens mount register and the depth of the shutter/sensor assembly.

    G
    When Leica removed the LCD from the back of the M60 (digital M6) they replaced it with the replica ISO setting scale -- my favorite piece of technology nostalgia. Since Leica only very recently made it easy to mess with ISO setting, I've been missing that dial. On my M2 it tells me what is loaded, now it quite naturally tells the camera. And that is perhaps where the LCD thickness went.

    From the Mark Norton teardowns of his M8, you can see that there is not much space empty on the battery side (many DSLR and mirrorless cameras make the battery holder into an extended handgrip). And little of the mechanical layout has changed going from M8 to M9 to the Ms. Even though the frame lever has gone away, the internal linkage is still there, as people who sharpie-code non-Leica lenses are aware.

    scott

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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    [QUOTE=250swb;610952]Because they need to shift some cameras before the Monochrom version of the M distracts attention from the core model, and of course the demise of the M240 itself in 2015.

    Steve[/QUOTE
    The discount is for US and Canada only and there is a 250 US$ discount also on many lenses (again US and Canada Only).
    Does the above fit in any speculation about new replacement products?
    I doubt.
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    Once one has been using the digital M cameras for a while, the film Ms feel uncomfortably thin.
    In my eyes (and hands!), the size and weight of the M6 are supreme.
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Quote Originally Posted by ramosa View Post
    In my eyes (and hands!), the size and weight of the M6 are supreme.
    I cannot agree more!

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    Re: Leica M Aesthetics

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    ... Even though the frame lever has gone away, the internal linkage is still there, as people who sharpie-code non-Leica lenses are aware.
    What linkage are you referring to that would affect the "sharpie-code non-Leica" lenses? I use sharpie coded Voigtlšnder lenses and am not aware of any linkage to the frameline selector that does anything but adjust the frame lines. Far as I'm aware, that's all mechanical on the M9, and simply tells the illuminator in the M and later which frames to light up. The frameline selector works the same for all lenses too AFAIK ... the coding informs the image processor what lens is being used which injects the appropriate EXIF metadata and runs the lens correction algorithm. I don't think it does anything with the frameline selector.

    G

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    Re: Leica M Aesthetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    What linkage are you referring to that would affect the "sharpie-code non-Leica" lenses?
    ...
    G
    When you take an M8 apart, you find there are two microswitches that pass two leading bits of information to the firmware processor, making the lens's 6-bit code into an 8-bit code. The 8-bit part was confirmed by finding the tables in the firmware which contained the information which is patched together into the EXIF. So there are four possible states, only three of them needed. There are several linkages connecting the microswitches to both the frame lever and to the lug on the mount which determines whether the lens is a 35, 50 or 90. If you have a thread mount lens in a bayonet adapter, e.g. for old Canon lenses or early Voightlaender lenses -- then the lug determines what sort of lens you are supposed to be. Sometimes you have the wrong adapter or (if you are Zeiss) just chose the wrong lug position. Then in the M8 and M9 you could override the lug position with the frame lever, but it only worked in one direction -- I believe the frame lever correction was sensed in the 90 direction, but not felt in the 35 direction. The reason was the linkages, which had to sometimes tug and sometimes slip to make all this work. Since the firmware turns off corrections which aren't recognized on all 8 bits, this gives a way to override vignetting and color shading corrections which are too strong in some circumstances... And it is the explanation why some sharpie codes don't work.

    But did you really want to know all that? There are nice pictures of this in this article. Go to post #9 for the linkage and description of how the mount lug is sensed. The pictures don't show how the frame lever input is added -- that was found out by trial and error.

    scott
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    Re: Discount Voucher for Leica M

    Leica is now making official the price some dealers have been charging for new cameras for some months now.

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    Re: Leica M Aesthetics

    Very interesting, thanks scott. Hmm, I can't see any pictures on the L Camera Forum unless I become a member. Gotta think about that.

    I've sort of stopped using the six-bit lens code reader now. I mostly use three lenses with the M9 and I set up user configs for each of them, so when I swap lenses I just switch the config to the one that has all the base settings and lens code that I want the camera to use.

    G

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