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New to Leica need advise

silver92b

New member
Hi, I just pulled the trigger on a Leica M 240. I've done some shooting with my RD-1 (which is for sale BTW ;)), so I have some experience with RF cameras. My question is regarding what lens to get next. I own 3 CV lenses, 40mmf1.4, 35mmf2.5 and 25mmf4. I also have an old Industar 5cmf3.5 but I hear that without a Leica (or at least a Zeiss) lens, I'm wasting the camera....

What would be a most useful lens to purchase? I'm not flush with cash after buying the body, so economy is a factor. Also, I want a lens that will allow me to take good usable shots indoors with fairly low light as well as all around street photography, etc.

Here are some samples of the photos I'd like to shoot successfully. These were taken with EM-5 and 35-100mm f2.8 ISO 3200..




Your input would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to waste money and time experimenting. I've done enough of that with my M43 system :p. Now we are talking real money.... ;)
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
You have a discerning eye and will appreciate the subtle rendering of the Leica lenses....

The Summarit series has been well received ... 35 or 50 2.5s image very beautifully....

If you can part with your lenses...trade for one to start you may find the entry cost is not that onerous...

Here:

Used 35mm Leica M Photo Equipment & Cameras - Camera West - Walnut Creek & Rancho Mirage, CA

Great place and they have had all of my business for years.

My first M6 purchase was in 1976 ... I have left a number of times but for personal satisfaction and image quality have always returned.

You mention real money...I believe that many have spent far more and come away less satisfied by moving systems on a continual basis.

This site has some great images from the Leica M system...

THORSTEN OVERGAARD official homepage since 1996 - Danish feature writer and photographer - Portrætfotograf i Aarhus Thorsten Overgaard

Regards,

Bob
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hi, I just pulled the trigger on a Leica M 240. I've done some shooting with my RD-1 (which is for sale BTW ;)), so I have some experience with RF cameras. My question is regarding what lens to get next. I own 3 CV lenses, 40mmf1.4, 35mmf2.5 and 25mmf4. I also have an old Industar 5cmf3.5 but I hear that without a Leica (or at least a Zeiss) lens, I'm wasting the camera....
Nice photos, regardless of what took them.

Regards the bolded bit above, eh? who cares what other people say? Go with what works for you and to heck with silly notions like that. You already have a fine 35/2.5 ... not to mention the excellent 40/1.4 ... and the 25/4 is no piker either. I've spent most of the time since I purchased the M9 in Jan 2012 with Nokton 50, Color Skopar 35, and M-Rokkor 90 lenses. I certainly don't feel like I've been wasting the camera. I did just buy an older Summilux 35 but only after much thinking and debate over what I really wanted before spending the money.

If I were you, I'd give it time-time to learn the camera, learn your current lenses on it, etc—and buy when you feel comfortable spending for what you really want after a suitable period of study.

As to what to add to your kit, for me a Leica M is not complete without a nice 50 mm lens. I've been extremely happy with the Nokton 50, it's been on the camera the most of all the lenses I have since I bought it. From what I've seen it compares very well to a Leica Summilux 50 of a couple of generations back—which is fine by me, I tend to prefer the rendering of slightly older than current series lenses. The Nokton 50 is less expensive than even a used Summilux or most Summicrons. I've also seen work done with the new Summarits that is outstanding.

Beyond that, what I said before: use what you have and give yourself time to get comfortable with the M. Learn what you really want. Buy infrequently and sparingly, use whatever you have to the fullest: that's how to save money and get the most out of the camera.

G
 
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sjg284

Member
You likely want to purchase lenses in order of your shooting preference.
Also take into account crop factor.

Of the lenses you list, the 35/2.5 VC is likely the best performer, so you don't need a new 35mm.
50mm lenses are plentiful and reasonably priced, so you may want to pick one up first.
The Zeiss 50/2 is reasonably priced.
The Voigtlander 50/1.5 is very sharp as well, but you may appreciate your first Zeiss more .. they are just great glass.
Stay away from the 50/1.5 Zeiss if you are after sharpness, it's a "character lens" and while great, is not a good first buy.
 
J

JohnW

Guest
I'd say shoot with what you have until you feel a pressing want or need for something different.

I really like your photos.

John
 

silver92b

New member
Thank you all for the kind words. It seems that I might ought to ignore certain Leica gurus ;)... Thanks for the advise about the Zeiss 50 f 1.5, actually I was about to try one out to buy it for the speed factor... I could probably do fine with a f2. I'm sure that all my A/F problems in low light will disappear when A/F disappears as well LOL!

I can't wait to try the camera. I am a little afraid that I might have the same difficulty focusing in low light as I have with the RD-1.. I have a heck of a time with it, especially trying to shoot dancers, musicians and people in darkly lit clubs, etc. I'm also thinking that I will need to get long lens of some sort....
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
... It seems that I might ought to ignore certain Leica gurus ;)
...
I can't wait to try the camera. I am a little afraid that I might have the same difficulty focusing in low light as I have with the RD-1.. I have a heck of a time with it, especially trying to shoot dancers, musicians and people in darkly lit clubs, etc. I'm also thinking that I will need to get long lens of some sort...
Indeed. Some of the self-proclaimed gurus are enough to make me barf. There's certainly a lot of joy in having new Leica lenses, but there are very few lenses in M-mount today which aren't already in the top 5% to 10% of lens performance anyway. With so many excellent choices out there, from a technical performance standpoint, what matters more is what you want and the differences in rendering character. Few are "bad" in any sense; some will please your eye more than others, that's all.

For use with fast 50mm lenses, I bought a 1.25x eyepiece magnifier. The M9 and M typ 240 series cameras have a .68x viewfinder magnification, which I find makes 35mm frame lines more visible but leaves the focusing patch a bit small (compared to my M4-2's .72x finder). The eyepiece magnifier enlarges the 50/75/90/135 framelines nicely; it makes focusing and framing surer. For 35 and shorter it seems inconsequential, but for 50 mm and up it helps, at least for my eyes. I bought an aftermarket one, not the Leica, and it does the job nicely.

G
 

silver92b

New member
Indeed. Some of the self-proclaimed gurus are enough to make me barf. There's certainly a lot of joy in having new Leica lenses, but there are very few lenses in M-mount today which aren't already in the top 5% to 10% of lens performance anyway. With so many excellent choices out there, from a technical performance standpoint, what matters more is what you want and the differences in rendering character. Few are "bad" in any sense; some will please your eye more than others, that's all.

For use with fast 50mm lenses, I bought a 1.25x eyepiece magnifier. The M9 and M typ 240 series cameras have a .68x viewfinder magnification, which I find makes 35mm frame lines more visible but leaves the focusing patch a bit small (compared to my M4-2's .72x finder). The eyepiece magnifier enlarges the 50/75/90/135 framelines nicely; it makes focusing and framing surer. For 35 and shorter it seems inconsequential, but for 50 mm and up it helps, at least for my eyes. I bought an aftermarket one, not the Leica, and it does the job nicely.

G
I had not considered anything like a magnifier.. Good idea! I actually purchased a hood loupe for my DP2-M which is very difficult to use in bright sunlight. Where can I find such an item?

Also, I did just order from Amazon a couple of adapters to use my OM lenses and Canon FD lenses with the camera. The 100mm f2.0 FD and the OM 24mm f2.8 might be fun to play with :D
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I had not considered anything like a magnifier.. Good idea! I actually purchased a hood loupe for my DP2-M which is very difficult to use in bright sunlight. Where can I find such an item? ...
This is the one I bought. The quality is quite good, although likely not quite Leica quality.

1 25x Magnifier for Leica Camera Accessory Me M9 P M8 2 M7 MP M6 TTL M4 M3 Black | eBay

The M with its Live View capability opens up the use of many SLR lenses using adapters. Aside from Leica's own adapter for R lenses, Rayqual, Voigtländer, and Novoflex make good quality adapters. You'll likely also want the EVF if you get involved with using them a lot.

G
 
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My suggestion is to shoot with the lenses you have now, until you get used to Full Frame. Then you'll know if there's a focal length that you'd like to improve upon.

Kirk
 

250swb

Member
I agree with everybody else, the lenses you already have are fine, the 35mm Skopar being one of my favourites on a Leica.

The big hurdle will be managing expectations as I don't see a problem with your M43 pictures and spending an awful lot more isn't a guarantee of making the images an awful lot better in difficult situations. With M43 you have image stabilisation, auto focus, zoom lenses, and at least as good/bad (whichever way you see it) ISO performance. So it could be a challenge to get up to speed quickly. But be patient and think about other lenses when you see what you are missing.

Steve
 

silver92b

New member
This is the one I bought. The quality is quite good, although likely not quite Leica quality.

1 25x Magnifier for Leica Camera Accessory Me M9 P M8 2 M7 MP M6 TTL M4 M3 Black | eBay

The M with its Live View capability opens up the use of many SLR lenses using adapters. Aside from Leica's own adapter for R lenses, Rayqual, Voigtländer, and Novoflex make good quality adapters. You'll likely also want the EVF if you get involved with using them a lot.

G
As luck would have it, the camera includes the EVF... I suspect I will play a good bit with adapted lenses, particularly since I'll be shooting much shorter FLs than I've gotten used to with M43....

I agree with everybody else, the lenses you already have are fine, the 35mm Skopar being one of my favourites on a Leica.

The big hurdle will be managing expectations as I don't see a problem with your M43 pictures and spending an awful lot more isn't a guarantee of making the images an awful lot better in difficult situations. With M43 you have image stabilisation, auto focus, zoom lenses, and at least as good/bad (whichever way you see it) ISO performance. So it could be a challenge to get up to speed quickly. But be patient and think about other lenses when you see what you are missing.

Steve
Excellent observation. I have hope that I will be able to manage the lack of IBIS and the "real" 35mm FL of my lenses. I do like the feel of shooting with the RF camera and I love those creamy portraits and awesome color rendition I see in so many Leica sample shots allegedly presented without PP ;).
Of course, honestly I just look forward to using FF *and* doing it with the best Leica camera to date. Thank you for your input, it's appreciated.
 

silver92b

New member
I also have a technical question. I understand that some modifications are required to the Voigtlander 40mmf1.4 so it brings out the correct frame lines in the VF. I imagine that some if not all my other CV lenses will need it too.
Can someone explain the details of this to me?

On another theme, I've been looking at 50mm lenses a lot over the last 2 days (more than I already have for adapting to the M43). Anyway, it seems that the 50mm Cron is a wonderful lens and I actually like the images I've seen compared side by side with the Lux. Is there something I'm overlooking or missing? (except of course the larger aperture).
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I also have a technical question. I understand that some modifications are required to the Voigtlander 40mmf1.4 so it brings out the correct frame lines in the VF. I imagine that some if not all my other CV lenses will need it too.
Can someone explain the details of this to me?
- Only the 40mm lens needs any modification, and whether it "needs" it or not is a judgement call.

- The M frame lines are selected by an actuating cam on one the leading edge of one of the bayonet lens flanges. They are displayed in pairs: 35-135, 50-75, and 28-90. The standard cam on the Leica Summicron-C 40, M-Rokkor 40, and Nokton 40 lenses brings up the 50mm frame lines. (The Leica CL and Minolta CLE had a specific set of frame lines for the 40mm focal length, selected by this same cam shape, which is why this works this way.)

Many people prefer to use the 35mm frame lines for the 40mm focal length ... they're a little closer to the actual Field of View. The difference is that with the 50mm frame lines, you shoot framing tightly and get a bit more than what was inside the frame lines in the exposure. With the 35mm frame lines, you frame loosely and get a bit less than what was inside the frame lines in the exposure.

Earlier series Ms had the manual frame line selector lever so you could flip back and forth between 50 and 35 mm frame lines to judge the difference without changing anything on the lens. The M typ 240 has lost the manual frame line selector, so you can either keep the lens stock and work with the 50mm frame lines or you can file down the cam on the flange by 1mm or so and work with the 35mm frame lines.

Personally, I'd leave the lens stock and learn to use the 50mm frame lines with it. It's easier to frame tightly and get a little extra, in my opinion, then to judge carefully enough framing loosely and get a little less. With the M typ 240 you have an added benefit: if you really need critical framing accuracy, just switch to Live View and then you'll see exactly what the lens is seeing.

Best advice: Leave well enough alone and learn to see what the lens sees regardless of the frame lines.
Option to that: Voigtländer sells a 40mm clip-on optical viewfinder if you want to be more precise with an optical viewfinder (but again, why bother when you have Live View available?).

On another theme, I've been looking at 50mm lenses a lot over the last 2 days (more than I already have for adapting to the M43). Anyway, it seems that the 50mm Cron is a wonderful lens and I actually like the images I've seen compared side by side with the Lux. Is there something I'm overlooking or missing? (except of course the larger aperture).
No, nothing. The Summicron-M 50mm f/2 is one of The Legendary Leica Lenses. In the days of film and sensitivity capped to ISO 400 or 800, the Summilux gave a much needed one stop increase in sensitivity for low light work, but with digital sensitivity now running to ISO 3200 and 6400 with excellent results, an f/2 lens is really fast enough for almost anything.

G
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I also would start with the lenses you have now.
My personal favorites are 35 and 50 Summicrons. The Summarits are very good as well and so are the Summiluxes - personally I feel (for some reason) the Summicrons work very well on the "new" M and I like the color I get with them.
 

segedi

Member
I picked up a CV 35mm f/2.5 this weekend and really love the size, but it has quite a bit of a magenta color cast on the right side. I won't be using it in the M 240. Curious if others have found the same.

Use the 40mm and skip the 50mm for now. The 40 is a great lens. Character and low light capable. Instead grab a 75mm. Love that focal length.
 

250swb

Member
I picked up a CV 35mm f/2.5 this weekend and really love the size, but it has quite a bit of a magenta color cast on the right side. I won't be using it in the M 240. Curious if others have found the same.
Perhaps try another code? The closest in max aperture and focal length isn't always the best, so try a 28mm code that would probably correct more for the magenta cast.

Steve
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I picked up a CV 35mm f/2.5 this weekend and really love the size, but it has quite a bit of a magenta color cast on the right side. I won't be using it in the M 240. Curious if others have found the same.
I use code 11310-11 on the M9 and get no magenta cast. This has been one of my most used lenses on the M9.

The lens code used can be critical... I discovered that the 'Lux 35 v2 does best with no code selected, for instance.
 
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