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M9 ... time for a time-out

Godfrey

Well-known member
I think all the 'sensor cover-glass corrosion' discussion on the internet has been infective to my M9.

I was processing a couple of my test exposures with the Summilux 35 v2 I bought recently and came across an odd pattern of dust spots/who knows what in a couple of frames. They were all taken with the aperture closed down to f/8-f/11. So I did a test series, then used a Giottos Rocket hand-bulb to clean the sensor (as I always do), and did another test series. Repeated attempts at cleaning didn't make them move or go away, so I suppose my M9's sensor has some problems too.

I wrote Leica USA service and support this morning and sent them the f/8 test exposure. Personally, if I'm going to spend more money, I'd rather put the money into an M-P typ 240. So I asked if this were indeed the sensor deterioration that they're fixing free of charge, and they do have an exchange/upgrade program for the type 240 camera, I'd be interested to know what the cost for an M-P typ 240 body would be.

I like the M9 but in fact I haven't found it to be as enticing I've found the X typ 113. It think it has to do with the somewhat lethargic feel of the M9's shutter and data write cycle. When I've tested the M typ 240, what I most like about it is that it is much more responsive, both in feel and in fact. I'm sure that once Leica USA service is done with it, the M9 will be back to perfect as it has been. So if there is an option to trade up for the M-P, I'll have to weigh in how much the exchange costs vs selling the M9 and then buying an M-P.

Presuming that I'll send it in soon, it looks like I'll have to fall back onto the Leica X and Sony A7, and shoot film with the M4-2, for a bit. Life could be worse. ]'-)

G
 

segedi

Member
I think they have you send in your M9 and then make an offer at that time. I also think I read something about 60% or so of new price, of the M9 that is. I think you'd do better with a trade-in than with selling - M9 prices, heck even M 240 prices have tanked lately.

If I had kept my Monochrom, I'd have sent in for an estimate. It only had 3000 shutter actuations and looked new. And yes, I would have gotten an M-P. I love my M 240, but like the style of the M-P a bit better. That and the larger buffer.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Not sure an air blower alone takes all the dust out all the time. If doing a wet clean, I would make sure that the cleaning liquid used is fairly dry. Moisture will affect the cover glass.

If Leica do a clean and find that your sensor glass is fine, you are likely to get a cleaned M9 back.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Not sure an air blower alone takes all the dust out all the time. If doing a wet clean, I would make sure that the cleaning liquid used is fairly dry. Moisture will affect the cover glass.

If Leica do a clean and find that your sensor glass is fine, you are likely to get a cleaned M9 back.
I know, Vivek. But it's what I've always used before and it's done a good job up until now. My M9 is hardly used in stressful situations that would incite damage to the sensor or accrete an excess of tough dirt on the sensor. And I've never wet-cleaned it. That's why I am concerned and will let Leica evaluate it.

It wouldn't bother me to have a properly cleaned and working-as-it-ought M9 back. But if they do offer a reasonable update cost to the M typ 240 series, I'll consider that because I know that eventually I want to move to that body anyway. :)

G
 

250swb

Member
One of the fundamental problems of the M9 for reluctant self cleaners is that the shutter will fire off grease from time to time. It usually settles down and after six months or so of regular use often disappears and only a brush (Arctic Butterfly) or sticky pad (Eyelead) is needed to clear loose dust. But in the right conditions, maybe a hot day, but I don't really know, just something changes, and it again spits some grease out.

Steve
 

cam

Active member
One of the fundamental problems of the M9 for reluctant self cleaners is that the shutter will fire off grease from time to time. It usually settles down and after six months or so of regular use often disappears and only a brush (Arctic Butterfly) or sticky pad (Eyelead) is needed to clear loose dust. But in the right conditions, maybe a hot day, but I don't really know, just something changes, and it again spits some grease out.

Steve
Interesting… M9 has been pretty much neglected because of the MM… I wonder if some stuff just stuck? It looks appalling :eek:

(And I am beyond a reluctant cleaner… I take it to the pros, every now and then, when I know I'll be shooting a lot wide open.)

Anyways, thank you very much the info.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Interesting… M9 has been pretty much neglected because of the MM… I wonder if some stuff just stuck? It looks appalling :eek:

(And I am beyond a reluctant cleaner… I take it to the pros, every now and then, when I know I'll be shooting a lot wide open.)

Anyways, thank you very much the info.
A clean sensor is actually much more important when you're shooting stopped down. When wide open, small bits of dust on the cover glass are too diffuse and blurred to be noticeable. When stopped down, the light coming in through the small aperture acts as a point source light and every little bit of dirt and crud casts a shadow on the sensor.

In the case of my M9, the crud on the sensor is barely visible until about f/5.6 with the Nokton 50/1.5 lens. The crud then becomes better defined with each additional click of the aperture ring.

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
One of the fundamental problems of the M9 for reluctant self cleaners is that the shutter will fire off grease from time to time. It usually settles down and after six months or so of regular use often disappears and only a brush (Arctic Butterfly) or sticky pad (Eyelead) is needed to clear loose dust. But in the right conditions, maybe a hot day, but I don't really know, just something changes, and it again spits some grease out.

Steve
Sounds like a fundamental flaw. I've not seen anything like this kind of dirt/crud before this, however, and I've been using the M9 since January 2012.

I remember when Nikon made a running update to the FM2n, somewhere in the late 1980s. They essentially weather-proofed the camera's mechanicals from extreme heat and cold by eliminating anything that needed lubricant and replacing them with self-lubricating bits (like delrin bushings on steel rather than brass on brass). A later series FM2n is a nearly impossible to kill camera, they were the camera of choice for arctic and tropical use. :)

G
 

cam

Active member
A clean sensor is actually much more important when you're shooting stopped down. When wide open, small bits of dust on the cover glass are too diffuse and blurred to be noticeable. When stopped down, the light coming in through the small aperture acts as a point source light and every little bit of dirt and crud casts a shadow on the sensor.

In the case of my M9, the crud on the sensor is barely visible until about f/5.6 with the Nokton 50/1.5 lens. The crud then becomes better defined with each additional click of the aperture ring.

G
I know… I meant stopped down, my bad (I was in the middle of cooking dinner...).

I tend to shoot a lot wide open here as I prefer dark bars and the like… but, when I go to the States, I'll stop down a lot, sometimes past diffraction (where you can see every bit of crud) especially when visiting my dad in Maui.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I know… I meant stopped down, my bad (I was in the middle of cooking dinner...).

I tend to shoot a lot wide open here as I prefer dark bars and the like… but, when I go to the States, I'll stop down a lot, sometimes past diffraction (where you can see every bit of crud) especially when visiting my dad in Maui.
Yes, the USA is a bright place... ];-) :)

I tend to shoot near-wide-open a good bit of the time too, which is perhaps why I hadn't noticed the crud building up on the sensor before. I'm usually at 1-2 stops down from wide open, f/2 to f/2.8 with the 50 and 35 lenses I have now. The Summilux 35 v2, though, incites more use of different apertures as its character changes so much from wide open to f/11. Really enjoying that lens! I'll fit it to the M4-2 next and see it's results on film.

G
 

cam

Active member
Yes, the USA is a bright place... ];-) :)

I tend to shoot near-wide-open a good bit of the time too, which is perhaps why I hadn't noticed the crud building up on the sensor before. I'm usually at 1-2 stops down from wide open, f/2 to f/2.8 with the 50 and 35 lenses I have now. The Summilux 35 v2, though, incites more use of different apertures as its character changes so much from wide open to f/11. Really enjoying that lens! I'll fit it to the M4-2 next and see it's results on film.

G
:ROTFL: (and I'm a native So Cal gal)

That 35 really is special. The results on film will make you melt :D
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I remember when Nikon made a running update to the FM2n, somewhere in the late 1980s. They essentially weather-proofed the camera's mechanicals from extreme heat and cold by eliminating anything that needed lubricant and replacing them with self-lubricating bits (like delrin bushings on steel rather than brass on brass). A later series FM2n is a nearly impossible to kill camera, they were the camera of choice for arctic and tropical use. :)

G
What a nice spin! Plastic has never been so well serenaded like this before!

If you have not seen dead/malfunctioning FM2n amateur cameras, take it from me, I have. I even have one that was not worth repairing.
 
I sent my M9 in to Leica Service USA with what some persistent spots, in December, after hearing about the corrosion issue.

I asked repeatedly if they could clarify the upgrade offer, so I wouldn't have to wait on service for a month. No information.

Well, they say my sensor just needed cleaning. I have to trust that they can diagnose the corrosion issue better than me. They sent my camera back (waiting to pick it up).

Importantly - no upgrade offer has been communicated. Neither the Leica Store nor Leica Service USA knows what the offer is. So, I've waited, will get my camera back, and wait some more to see what the options are.

Personally, I would not upgrade from the M9 were it not for this issue. I would like to just keep using the M9 (wonderful camera). My only worry is how long will they honor fixing sensor problems if it does crop up in the future?

Reed
My Blog: DMC-365.blogspot.com
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
What a nice spin! Plastic has never been so well serenaded like this before!

If you have not seen dead/malfunctioning FM2n amateur cameras, take it from me, I have. I even have one that was not worth repairing.
Come on, Vivek. Of course you can find dead ones. There are stupid people who can destroy anything. And time itself does everything in eventually.

Every one of my older cameras, no matter how indestructible its reputation, has required a service to restore to satisfactory condition. No exceptions.

G
 

MCTuomey

New member
I sent my M9 in to Leica Service USA with what some persistent spots, in December, after hearing about the corrosion issue.

I asked repeatedly if they could clarify the upgrade offer, so I wouldn't have to wait on service for a month. No information.

Well, they say my sensor just needed cleaning. I have to trust that they can diagnose the corrosion issue better than me. They sent my camera back (waiting to pick it up).

Importantly - no upgrade offer has been communicated. Neither the Leica Store nor Leica Service USA knows what the offer is. So, I've waited, will get my camera back, and wait some more to see what the options are.

Personally, I would not upgrade from the M9 were it not for this issue. I would like to just keep using the M9 (wonderful camera). My only worry is how long will they honor fixing sensor problems if it does crop up in the future?

Reed
My Blog: DMC-365.blogspot.com
Reed, I may be misreading your post, it seems you're expecting an upgrade offer. There is no upgrade available to M9 owners unless Leica Service confirms one's camera has the corrosion problem. Since your camera only needed a cleaning, it doesn't qualify for an upgrade.
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
Reed, I may be misreading your post, it seems you're expecting an upgrade offer. There is no upgrade available to M9 owners unless Leica Service confirms one's camera has the corrosion problem. Since your camera only needed a cleaning, it doesn't quality for an upgrade.
That's my understanding as well.

If there's an exchange/upgrade offer because my sensor has the corrosion problem, I'll consider it. But I'm not that eager to spend another $4k or whatever just at present, so if it just needs a good cleaning I'll be happy.

An M-P typ 240 will eventually end up in my cabinet. There's no rush.

G
 
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Vivek

Guest
People should be thankful that they offer a free cleaning service. No one else do!
 
Well, Mike and Godfrey, that may very well be the case. I can tell you that no one at Leica has been able to state it that clearly. Or clearly at all.

As for being thankful, I've learned not to frustrate myself by replying directly to some people's comments.

I'm simply trying to share info from my experience.

Reed
 
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