Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 82

Thread: M9 ... time for a time-out

  1. #1
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    M9 ... time for a time-out

    I think all the 'sensor cover-glass corrosion' discussion on the internet has been infective to my M9.

    I was processing a couple of my test exposures with the Summilux 35 v2 I bought recently and came across an odd pattern of dust spots/who knows what in a couple of frames. They were all taken with the aperture closed down to f/8-f/11. So I did a test series, then used a Giottos Rocket hand-bulb to clean the sensor (as I always do), and did another test series. Repeated attempts at cleaning didn't make them move or go away, so I suppose my M9's sensor has some problems too.

    I wrote Leica USA service and support this morning and sent them the f/8 test exposure. Personally, if I'm going to spend more money, I'd rather put the money into an M-P typ 240. So I asked if this were indeed the sensor deterioration that they're fixing free of charge, and they do have an exchange/upgrade program for the type 240 camera, I'd be interested to know what the cost for an M-P typ 240 body would be.

    I like the M9 but in fact I haven't found it to be as enticing I've found the X typ 113. It think it has to do with the somewhat lethargic feel of the M9's shutter and data write cycle. When I've tested the M typ 240, what I most like about it is that it is much more responsive, both in feel and in fact. I'm sure that once Leica USA service is done with it, the M9 will be back to perfect as it has been. So if there is an option to trade up for the M-P, I'll have to weigh in how much the exchange costs vs selling the M9 and then buying an M-P.

    Presuming that I'll send it in soon, it looks like I'll have to fall back onto the Leica X and Sony A7, and shoot film with the M4-2, for a bit. Life could be worse. ]'-)

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  2. #2
    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    363
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    I think they have you send in your M9 and then make an offer at that time. I also think I read something about 60% or so of new price, of the M9 that is. I think you'd do better with a trade-in than with selling - M9 prices, heck even M 240 prices have tanked lately.

    If I had kept my Monochrom, I'd have sent in for an estimate. It only had 3000 shutter actuations and looked new. And yes, I would have gotten an M-P. I love my M 240, but like the style of the M-P a bit better. That and the larger buffer.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belgïe
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Let us know when you hear back, Godfrey… I'm in the same boat

  4. #4
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Not sure an air blower alone takes all the dust out all the time. If doing a wet clean, I would make sure that the cleaning liquid used is fairly dry. Moisture will affect the cover glass.

    If Leica do a clean and find that your sensor glass is fine, you are likely to get a cleaned M9 back.

  5. #5
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Not sure an air blower alone takes all the dust out all the time. If doing a wet clean, I would make sure that the cleaning liquid used is fairly dry. Moisture will affect the cover glass.

    If Leica do a clean and find that your sensor glass is fine, you are likely to get a cleaned M9 back.
    I know, Vivek. But it's what I've always used before and it's done a good job up until now. My M9 is hardly used in stressful situations that would incite damage to the sensor or accrete an excess of tough dirt on the sensor. And I've never wet-cleaned it. That's why I am concerned and will let Leica evaluate it.

    It wouldn't bother me to have a properly cleaned and working-as-it-ought M9 back. But if they do offer a reasonable update cost to the M typ 240 series, I'll consider that because I know that eventually I want to move to that body anyway. :-)

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    One of the fundamental problems of the M9 for reluctant self cleaners is that the shutter will fire off grease from time to time. It usually settles down and after six months or so of regular use often disappears and only a brush (Arctic Butterfly) or sticky pad (Eyelead) is needed to clear loose dust. But in the right conditions, maybe a hot day, but I don't really know, just something changes, and it again spits some grease out.

    Steve
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_barnett/
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belgïe
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    One of the fundamental problems of the M9 for reluctant self cleaners is that the shutter will fire off grease from time to time. It usually settles down and after six months or so of regular use often disappears and only a brush (Arctic Butterfly) or sticky pad (Eyelead) is needed to clear loose dust. But in the right conditions, maybe a hot day, but I don't really know, just something changes, and it again spits some grease out.

    Steve
    Interesting… M9 has been pretty much neglected because of the MM… I wonder if some stuff just stuck? It looks appalling

    (And I am beyond a reluctant cleaner… I take it to the pros, every now and then, when I know I'll be shooting a lot wide open.)

    Anyways, thank you very much the info.

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    Interesting… M9 has been pretty much neglected because of the MM… I wonder if some stuff just stuck? It looks appalling

    (And I am beyond a reluctant cleaner… I take it to the pros, every now and then, when I know I'll be shooting a lot wide open.)

    Anyways, thank you very much the info.
    A clean sensor is actually much more important when you're shooting stopped down. When wide open, small bits of dust on the cover glass are too diffuse and blurred to be noticeable. When stopped down, the light coming in through the small aperture acts as a point source light and every little bit of dirt and crud casts a shadow on the sensor.

    In the case of my M9, the crud on the sensor is barely visible until about f/5.6 with the Nokton 50/1.5 lens. The crud then becomes better defined with each additional click of the aperture ring.

    G

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    One of the fundamental problems of the M9 for reluctant self cleaners is that the shutter will fire off grease from time to time. It usually settles down and after six months or so of regular use often disappears and only a brush (Arctic Butterfly) or sticky pad (Eyelead) is needed to clear loose dust. But in the right conditions, maybe a hot day, but I don't really know, just something changes, and it again spits some grease out.

    Steve
    Sounds like a fundamental flaw. I've not seen anything like this kind of dirt/crud before this, however, and I've been using the M9 since January 2012.

    I remember when Nikon made a running update to the FM2n, somewhere in the late 1980s. They essentially weather-proofed the camera's mechanicals from extreme heat and cold by eliminating anything that needed lubricant and replacing them with self-lubricating bits (like delrin bushings on steel rather than brass on brass). A later series FM2n is a nearly impossible to kill camera, they were the camera of choice for arctic and tropical use. :-)

    G

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belgïe
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    A clean sensor is actually much more important when you're shooting stopped down. When wide open, small bits of dust on the cover glass are too diffuse and blurred to be noticeable. When stopped down, the light coming in through the small aperture acts as a point source light and every little bit of dirt and crud casts a shadow on the sensor.

    In the case of my M9, the crud on the sensor is barely visible until about f/5.6 with the Nokton 50/1.5 lens. The crud then becomes better defined with each additional click of the aperture ring.

    G
    I know… I meant stopped down, my bad (I was in the middle of cooking dinner...).

    I tend to shoot a lot wide open here as I prefer dark bars and the like… but, when I go to the States, I'll stop down a lot, sometimes past diffraction (where you can see every bit of crud) especially when visiting my dad in Maui.

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    I know… I meant stopped down, my bad (I was in the middle of cooking dinner...).

    I tend to shoot a lot wide open here as I prefer dark bars and the like… but, when I go to the States, I'll stop down a lot, sometimes past diffraction (where you can see every bit of crud) especially when visiting my dad in Maui.
    Yes, the USA is a bright place... ];-) :-)

    I tend to shoot near-wide-open a good bit of the time too, which is perhaps why I hadn't noticed the crud building up on the sensor before. I'm usually at 1-2 stops down from wide open, f/2 to f/2.8 with the 50 and 35 lenses I have now. The Summilux 35 v2, though, incites more use of different apertures as its character changes so much from wide open to f/11. Really enjoying that lens! I'll fit it to the M4-2 next and see it's results on film.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belgïe
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Yes, the USA is a bright place... ];-) :-)

    I tend to shoot near-wide-open a good bit of the time too, which is perhaps why I hadn't noticed the crud building up on the sensor before. I'm usually at 1-2 stops down from wide open, f/2 to f/2.8 with the 50 and 35 lenses I have now. The Summilux 35 v2, though, incites more use of different apertures as its character changes so much from wide open to f/11. Really enjoying that lens! I'll fit it to the M4-2 next and see it's results on film.

    G
    (and I'm a native So Cal gal)

    That 35 really is special. The results on film will make you melt

  13. #13
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    rayyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,887
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    You guys don't know what dust means..on a sensor!!

    Good luck Godfrey.

  14. #14
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I remember when Nikon made a running update to the FM2n, somewhere in the late 1980s. They essentially weather-proofed the camera's mechanicals from extreme heat and cold by eliminating anything that needed lubricant and replacing them with self-lubricating bits (like delrin bushings on steel rather than brass on brass). A later series FM2n is a nearly impossible to kill camera, they were the camera of choice for arctic and tropical use. :-)

    G
    What a nice spin! Plastic has never been so well serenaded like this before!

    If you have not seen dead/malfunctioning FM2n amateur cameras, take it from me, I have. I even have one that was not worth repairing.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    I sent my M9 in to Leica Service USA with what some persistent spots, in December, after hearing about the corrosion issue.

    I asked repeatedly if they could clarify the upgrade offer, so I wouldn't have to wait on service for a month. No information.

    Well, they say my sensor just needed cleaning. I have to trust that they can diagnose the corrosion issue better than me. They sent my camera back (waiting to pick it up).

    Importantly - no upgrade offer has been communicated. Neither the Leica Store nor Leica Service USA knows what the offer is. So, I've waited, will get my camera back, and wait some more to see what the options are.

    Personally, I would not upgrade from the M9 were it not for this issue. I would like to just keep using the M9 (wonderful camera). My only worry is how long will they honor fixing sensor problems if it does crop up in the future?

    Reed
    My Blog: DMC-365.blogspot.com

  16. #16
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    What a nice spin! Plastic has never been so well serenaded like this before!

    If you have not seen dead/malfunctioning FM2n amateur cameras, take it from me, I have. I even have one that was not worth repairing.
    Come on, Vivek. Of course you can find dead ones. There are stupid people who can destroy anything. And time itself does everything in eventually.

    Every one of my older cameras, no matter how indestructible its reputation, has required a service to restore to satisfactory condition. No exceptions.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    422
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by rgeorge911 View Post
    I sent my M9 in to Leica Service USA with what some persistent spots, in December, after hearing about the corrosion issue.

    I asked repeatedly if they could clarify the upgrade offer, so I wouldn't have to wait on service for a month. No information.

    Well, they say my sensor just needed cleaning. I have to trust that they can diagnose the corrosion issue better than me. They sent my camera back (waiting to pick it up).

    Importantly - no upgrade offer has been communicated. Neither the Leica Store nor Leica Service USA knows what the offer is. So, I've waited, will get my camera back, and wait some more to see what the options are.

    Personally, I would not upgrade from the M9 were it not for this issue. I would like to just keep using the M9 (wonderful camera). My only worry is how long will they honor fixing sensor problems if it does crop up in the future?

    Reed
    My Blog: DMC-365.blogspot.com
    Reed, I may be misreading your post, it seems you're expecting an upgrade offer. There is no upgrade available to M9 owners unless Leica Service confirms one's camera has the corrosion problem. Since your camera only needed a cleaning, it doesn't qualify for an upgrade.
    Last edited by MCTuomey; 15th January 2015 at 09:59.
    --Mike

    My Flickr

  18. #18
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
    Reed, I may be misreading your post, it seems you're expecting an upgrade offer. There is no upgrade available to M9 owners unless Leica Service confirms one's camera has the corrosion problem. Since your camera only needed a cleaning, it doesn't quality for an upgrade.
    That's my understanding as well.

    If there's an exchange/upgrade offer because my sensor has the corrosion problem, I'll consider it. But I'm not that eager to spend another $4k or whatever just at present, so if it just needs a good cleaning I'll be happy.

    An M-P typ 240 will eventually end up in my cabinet. There's no rush.

    G

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    People should be thankful that they offer a free cleaning service. No one else do!
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Well, Mike and Godfrey, that may very well be the case. I can tell you that no one at Leica has been able to state it that clearly. Or clearly at all.

    As for being thankful, I've learned not to frustrate myself by replying directly to some people's comments.

    I'm simply trying to share info from my experience.

    Reed

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belgïe
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Jeeez… When I read Godfrey's initial post, it sounded more like he was musing whether he should consider an upgrade path IF his M9 is shown to have this issue… I responded because I've been pondering the same.

    In no way was anyone ever ungrateful to Leica that they are offering to rectify the situation. They are amazing!

    And, to be honest, I have never had anything but wonderful interactions with everybody in the service department. Come to think of it, anybody affiliated with Leica, period. They have my utmost respect.

    What I thought was a musing thread, has now turned (as have others in different forums)… Guess it may be time to recuse myself.

    Pity. Because I was kind of interested in what Godfrey heard and was going to do.
    my flickr
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    cam - I hope that my post didn't give you that impression.

    I have also had generally good interactions with Leica Service USA, and do appreciate Leica standing behind the M9 sensor.

    I was just sharing what I'd heard about my camera, and my thoughts on where to go from here.

    That said, it was not whether or not my camera had the issue that kept Leica Service from talking to me about the upgrade offer. Never did they say that we should wait for diagnosis. They literally said that they had no information on the options, hoped to hear by mid-December, and that has not changed, as far as I can see.

    Again, not trying to ruffle any feathers, just share my experience.

    Reed
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belgïe
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by rgeorge911 View Post
    cam - I hope that my post didn't give you that impression.

    I have also had generally good interactions with Leica Service USA, and do appreciate Leica standing behind the M9 sensor.

    I was just sharing what I'd heard about my camera, and my thoughts on where to go from here.

    That said, it was not whether or not my camera had the issue that kept Leica Service from talking to me about the upgrade offer. Never did they say that we should wait for diagnosis. They literally said that they had no information on the options, hoped to hear by mid-December, and that has not changed, as far as I can see.

    Again, not trying to ruffle any feathers, just share my experience.

    Reed
    It wasn't you, Reed. Thank you for sharing your experience.
    my flickr
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  24. #24
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    No one's ruffled my feathers. :-)

    I'm still waiting to hear back from Leica USA. I've been too busy to try to call them, but I might have time tomorrow.

    If my camera has the corrosion problem, and if there is an upgrade exchange to the typ 240 available, I will consider it and take advantage of it if I can afford to. As I said, I am in no particular hurry to spend $4K plus just at the moment, but I will eventually buy an M-P so if this is the time, and I can front the cash, I will.

    That's all. :-)

    G

  25. #25
    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,265
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Be aware that the M-P will not start up as quickly as the M9 and the colour palette is vastly different.

    Someone had to play devil's advocate.

    Also, Leica will replace your sensor within 10 years of date of purchase, they have an unspoken 'good will' policy which in typical German fashion is very structured and official. If a repair centre tries to charge or denies the service then contact Leica AG.
    My Tumblr
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  26. #26
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    Be aware that the M-P will not start up as quickly as the M9 and the colour palette is vastly different.

    Someone had to play devil's advocate.

    Also, Leica will replace your sensor within 10 years of date of purchase, they have an unspoken 'good will' policy which in typical German fashion is very structured and official. If a repair centre tries to charge or denies the service then contact Leica AG.
    I'm aware that the M typ 240 starts a little more slowly than the M9. It just operates much much faster overall. Is the M-P any different? Have you tested them side by side?

    G

  27. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    235
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    31

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by rgeorge911 View Post
    As for being thankful, I've learned not to frustrate myself by replying directly to some people's comments.Reed
    To my regret, I've allowed myself to be drawn into one or two of those situations recently. I think I'll try a leaf out of your book and make a new year's resolution not to be quite so foolish in future.
    But you know how new year resolutions go!
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  28. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    Be aware that the M-P will not start up as quickly as the M9 and the colour palette is vastly different.

    Someone had to play devil's advocate.

    Also, Leica will replace your sensor within 10 years of date of purchase, they have an unspoken 'good will' policy which in typical German fashion is very structured and official. If a repair centre tries to charge or denies the service then contact Leica AG.
    Great to know! Thank you.

    Reed

  29. #29
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'm aware that the M typ 240 starts a little more slowly than the M9. It just operates much much faster overall. Is the M-P any different? Have you tested them side by side?

    G
    HI Godfrey - I can do a test (I seem to have an M9 an M240 and an M-P - but when you say 'start up' which point do you mean! (live view, whatever)

    Just this guy you know

  30. #30
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Godfrey - I can do a test (I seem to have an M9 an M240 and an M-P - but when you say 'start up' which point do you mean! (live view, whatever)
    I'm mostly interested in the power-on-by-main-switch to ready-to-shoot times. The other one that's interesting to me is the sleep to ready-to-shoot time.

    Thanks Jono!

    G

  31. #31
    Senior Member ceh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    1,523
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  32. #32
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by ceh View Post
    Seen it, commented on it, of no concern to me. Thanks.

    G

  33. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belgïe
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Thank you. Now the conversation is turning out more like I hoped!

    Start up time alone, to me, is worth its weight in gold. (I learned, long ago on the Epson, to turn the camera off, rather than let it go to sleep, to preserve the battery.)

    merci

  34. #34
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    I just talked with Jim at Leica USA Service and Support.

    The situation regards upgrade/exchanges on the M9 is the following ... If your camera proves to have the sensor damage that warrants a sensor replacement, by their inspection, Leica USA is authorized to offer an upgrade to the M or M-P typ 240 camera at an exchange price with trade-in of the affected camera. Only those whose cameras are inspected and prove to need a new sensor will receive an offer as the exchange offer is individual, dependent upon the condition, age, etc of the camera that needs the sensor.

    This program is not a blanket "trade in your M9 for an M typ 240" deal. It is specific and intended to preserve the value that your M9 (with an undamaged sensor) represents. Jim said that Leica USA was not fully informed of the specifics of the arrangement until after the new year had begun, but it is now well documented by Leica AG and they are following through on it.

    My M9 is going in for inspection and cleaning as there are persistent dirty spots that will not move, and which need to be taken care of. If it turns out that this is sensor damage that requires a replacement sensor, I will receive an offer to exchange for the typ 240 cameras. Otherwise, they'll just clean it properly and send it back.

    In all likelihood, mine just has some sticky dirt on the sensor and needs a good cleaning. I'm just fine with that. :-)

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  35. #35
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    k-hawinkler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The "Land of Enchantment"
    Posts
    3,302
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Thanks Godfrey. Good luck!
    Provided Leica can clean it, I would be curious how clean they can get the sensor?

    My 5-year old M9 seems fine, but would benefit from a cleaning.
    With best regards, K-H.

  36. #36
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'm mostly interested in the power-on-by-main-switch to ready-to-shoot times. The other one that's interesting to me is the sleep to ready-to-shoot time.

    Thanks Jono!

    G
    I'll see what I can do . . .tomorrow!

    Just this guy you know

  37. #37
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I just talked with Jim at Leica USA Service and Support.

    The situation regards upgrade/exchanges on the M9 is the following ... If your camera proves to have the sensor damage that warrants a sensor replacement, by their inspection, Leica USA is authorized to offer an upgrade to the M or M-P typ 240 camera at an exchange price with trade-in of the affected camera. Only those whose cameras are inspected and prove to need a new sensor will receive an offer as the exchange offer is individual, dependent upon the condition, age, etc of the camera that needs the sensor.

    This program is not a blanket "trade in your M9 for an M typ 240" deal. It is specific and intended to preserve the value that your M9 (with an undamaged sensor) represents. Jim said that Leica USA was not fully informed of the specifics of the arrangement until after the new year had begun, but it is now well documented by Leica AG and they are following through on it.

    My M9 is going in for inspection and cleaning as there are persistent dirty spots that will not move, and which need to be taken care of. If it turns out that this is sensor damage that requires a replacement sensor, I will receive an offer to exchange for the typ 240 cameras. Otherwise, they'll just clean it properly and send it back.

    In all likelihood, mine just has some sticky dirt on the sensor and needs a good cleaning. I'm just fine with that. :-)

    G
    Just like what I said above (post #4)..

  38. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Sounds like a fundamental flaw. I've not seen anything like this kind of dirt/crud before this, however, and I've been using the M9 since January 2012.

    I remember when Nikon made a running update to the FM2n, somewhere in the late 1980s. They essentially weather-proofed the camera's mechanicals from extreme heat and cold by eliminating anything that needed lubricant and replacing them with self-lubricating bits (like delrin bushings on steel rather than brass on brass). A later series FM2n is a nearly impossible to kill camera, they were the camera of choice for arctic and tropical use. :-)

    G
    Copal have made Nikon focal-plane shutters from the year dot, and now make the shutters for digital 'M's.


    Steve

  39. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    235
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    31

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The situation regards upgrade/exchanges on the M9 is the following ... If your camera proves to have the sensor damage that warrants a sensor replacement, by their inspection, Leica USA is authorized to offer an upgrade to the M or M-P typ 240 camera at an exchange price with trade-in of the affected camera. Only those whose cameras are inspected and prove to need a new sensor will receive an offer as the exchange offer is individual, dependent upon the condition, age, etc of the camera that needs the sensor.G
    Can't say fairer than that. Godfrey, how long have you owned the camera? Sorry if you've already mentioned it.

  40. #40
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve P. View Post
    Can't say fairer than that. Godfrey, how long have you owned the camera? Sorry if you've already mentioned it.
    I've had my M9 since January 2012.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  41. #41
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    Copal have made Nikon focal-plane shutters from the year dot, and now make the shutters for digital 'M's.
    I seem to recall the first Nikon SLRs with Copal shutters were the models with the vertically running shutter in the late 1960s/early 1970s ... Nikkormat, I guess. The Copal Square shutter of that time was the basis of many cameras, offering a higher flash sync speed and low cost with good quality. The horizontal running shutters in Nikon RF and F series cameras up to the F3 was a Nikon design, I think.

    It makes sense for camera companies to go with a specialist vendor for the design and manufacture of the shutter.

    G

  42. #42
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    seakayaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    2,889
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    FWIW, i called Leica NJ in December and arranged to have my M9 sent in for repair. They requested it arrive by January 15th for them to inspect. I received a letter this week stating that they will replace the sensor under the warranty program and the work should be completed by February 27th.

    So I am happy that this is coming to a satisfactory conclusion. I hope to enjoy several more years of use with the M9.

  43. #43
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    My repair estimate for the M9 arrived yesterday. Yes, the sensor needs replacement. Free of charge, with a new leatherette body cover as well (evidently the same one used in the M9-P), and a full service CLA/adjustment/etc. They'll be able to have it done by March 6 or thereabouts.

    I called this morning and asked about the exchange/update price to an M-P typ 240. That would cost $3750. Savings of $4200 off the new price of an M-P, two year warranty, etc. Downside: need new half case, new spare battery, etc.

    So, now I have a decision to make. Hmm.

    G

  44. #44
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,872
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    My repair estimate for the M9 arrived yesterday. Yes, the sensor needs replacement. Free of charge, with a new leatherette body cover as well (evidently the same one used in the M9-P), and a full service CLA/adjustment/etc. They'll be able to have it done by March 6 or thereabouts.

    I called this morning and asked about the exchange/update price to an M-P typ 240. That would cost $3750. Savings of $4200 off the new price of an M-P, two year warranty, etc. Downside: need new half case, new spare battery, etc.

    So, now I have a decision to make. Hmm.

    G
    Interesting ....

    Today I visited Leica Store Vienna and they had a M9 on offer which is almost like new with only 1500 actuations for €3300. and maybe with some negotiations also for €3000.- I thought this might be a bargain entry back into Leica M, as I kept all my M lenses (around 15, all coded from my M8 times).

    Now I wonder if it is worth to invest into a good M9 today or better wait and spend my money on a new (or almost new) M240. I know about all the new stuff in the M240, but maybe I could happily survive the next 2 years with a decent M9 and then sell it without much loss and wait for the M240 successor whatever it will be.

    Peter

  45. #45
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    It's a bit of a toss up. The M9 and M typ 240 models are quite distinct in terms of what you're getting. If the M9 is what you want for its specific performance and rendering qualities, go for it. If the M is what you want for its advantages, go for it instead. If you make income from using it, whichever works best for your needs is all that matters.

    I'm debating about it as I do like the M9 a lot, but I suspect I'd like the M even more based on its improved responsiveness. On the other hand, between the exchange price and the cost of a new battery and case, it's a good bit of money to spend. I no longer make income from my cameras and that makes it harder to decide. The M9 has certainly not constrained my photography. ;-)

    G

  46. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Czech Republic and Austria
    Posts
    305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    My $0.02 is now firmly behind the M240, having gone through the "M9->240->M9->M-P" sequence. It is my impression that the M240 LR colour profiles have improved since launch (and I've made my own profiles, too). And the high ISO capability is useful - the image below was shot at ISO6400 at f2.0, in "available darkness", in a basket weaver's hut in Rwanda, in the middle of an evening storm, the only light coming in was through the door (there were no windows in the room).

    Likes 11 Member(s) liked this post

  47. #47
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    I would go for the M type 240 because of
    better buttons, better battery, weatherproof, improved rangefinder, better high ISO, more consistent color in mixed and artificial light (IMO), better DR.

    What I dislike is slightly higher weight.

    Of course you all know the CCD vs CMOS discussion and you know there are others who prefer the IQ of the M9. I dont see a clear low ISO IQ advantage for the M9.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  48. #48
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,930
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I would go for the M type 240 because of
    better buttons, better battery, weatherproof, improved rangefinder, better high ISO, more consistent color in mixed and artificial light (IMO), better DR.

    What I dislike is slightly higher weight.

    Of course you all know the CCD vs CMOS discussion and you know there are others who prefer the IQ of the M9. I dont see a clear low ISO IQ advantage for the M9.
    All of those are good things too.

    The whole "IQ" thing is completely opaque to me. The sensors are different so yes, the captures will be different. Better or worse? I don't see it. Besides, I like differences. That's why I still have the E-1 and E-PL1: they produce different output from the E-M1 and E-PL7, different again from the X2 and X, or from the GXR-M.

    I think, in the end, which way I decide to go depends on whether I feel comfortable spending another $4000 for the M-P. Tossing around chunks of cash like that does make me stop and think a bit. I am able to afford it, but whether I should or not is an aesthetic decision. :-)

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  49. #49
    Senior Member Hosermage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Godfrey, it sounds like a good deal, directly from Leica. However, looking at the second hand market, you could probably do it (sell M9 + buy M240) for about $2500 extra investment, or less if you can fetch a good price for a M9 with new CCD.

    I'm not sure what I would do if I was in your shoes.
    David Young
    My journey into Leica: LeicaLux.com

  50. #50
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: M9 ... time for a time-out

    Quote Originally Posted by baudolino View Post
    My $0.02 is now firmly behind the M240, having gone through the "M9->240->M9->M-P" sequence. It is my impression that the M240 LR colour profiles have improved since launch (and I've made my own profiles, too). And the high ISO capability is useful - the image below was shot at ISO6400 at f2.0, in "available darkness", in a basket weaver's hut in Rwanda, in the middle of an evening storm, the only light coming in was through the door (there were no windows in the room).
    Nice capture! A pity that there is banding, even at ISO6400.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •