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Thread: The New Monochrom - a fine report

  1. #51
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    Thanks Scott. I did not read that and, because I don't have a subscription, probably won't be able to.
    ....

    Just by having 4 pixels dedicated to gray scale rather than interpreting 4RGGB pixels will give you greater dynamic (point in fact the difference in dynamic range/ISO between the Monochrom and the M9). Same pixels and increase in resolution and DR. (see Erwin Puts' discussion at Monochrom analysis | LEICAgraphy )

    So now we see the same with the M240 vs the M260. Increase DR and resolution. So is the increase in DR and ISO simply do to increasing the pixel count between the Monochrom and the M260 and removing the filters on the sensor? Why did Leica dumb down the bit count? Bit depth increases exponentially, as I understand it, so it is a HUGE difference between 12 & 14bit depth.

    I hope this all makes sense. I'm not all that technical, but I do know a little (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing comes to mind). And I'd just like all the information laid out there...

    Thanks,
    Bob
    I haven't read an imaging chip spec since Kodak made the chips for Leica (and only the M8's chip was public information), but they usually say that there is noise from dark current leakage and the handling that the signal goes through while being extracted from the chip (more of that in CMOS than in CCD, BTW) amounting to at least 3-4 bits. So if you keep all 14 bits of possible signal, the last 3-4 bits of any pixel's value are only an accurate image of the light coming to the pixels if you average over several adjacent pixels. (Averaging over 16 pixels brings the noise down by 2 bits.) DeBayering does some of that, but we don't want to do that in a monochrome camera. So what I presume is happening, dividing the output signal of each pixel by four before converting it to digital, makes sense to me. Sure, there are now one fourth as many values available to us in the middle of the image tones, but the actual placing of those values was always random, not real.

    Puts article is a little confused, I think. The man knows a lot more than us about lenses, but not about digital signal processing. He talks about the files having three colors of equal intensity, which might happen in a JPEG, but the raw files have no need to do that.

    scott
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  2. #52
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    Thanks Scott. I did not read that and, because I don't have a subscription, probably won't be able to.


    I would just like to hear the reason why... It's a lot of $ to spend without knowing the facts (which really haven't been released) and just knowing the marketing.
    Thanks,
    Bob
    Hi There Bob
    My problem is that I'm really NOT technical, but I think Scott is very close to what I'm hearing. Brian (lenshacker) at LUF has had a proper look at the DNG files, and is talking the same kind of language as Scott.

    egor - at ultrasomething.com was also sure that there would be a visible problem . . . and searched for it . . . and failed to find it.

    I've had permission to post a dng comparison

    Comparison of MM and MM246 files

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    Thanks Scott. I did not read that and, because I don't have a subscription, probably won't be able to.
    You know, Sean does excruciatingly careful studio tests so that the rest of us do not have to do them. I get interested in these questions sometimes, but I know I can't make myself be as thorough as he is. And he comes up with new tests from time to time - as recently he has been shooting bizarre, twisted frames that let you see exactly how sharp or unsharp corners of wide angle shots of distant objects will be, and what sort of DR and shadow noise you'll see in an MM or an M246 outdoors in harsh light. Sometimes his pictures are amusing (but not always).

    Send the man his $30! You'll learn stuff, and it will only make it take one day longer to save up for your APO 50 Summicron.

    scott
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  4. #54
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    I've had permission to post a dng comparison

    Comparison of MM and MM246 files
    That's a fun image to scan around in. I spotted the Noctilux, the WATE, the Olympus 75, and what looks like Scarlett dealing Baccarat.

    Comparing the two files with ISO 10,000, the differences are great. But which is the MM9 and which the M246?

    scott
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    ....

    Send the man his $30! You'll learn stuff, and it will only make it take one day longer to save up for your APO 50 Summicron.
    I'm not sending him any more money until he comes up with some way to read his content that doesn't suck rocks. No matter how wonderful his reviews are, they do me no good if I can't read them and use them in a reasonable manner, like maybe a PDF file that I can read, annotate, or print. And if he doesn't trust me to respect his copyright as his customer, well, why should I want to do business with him?

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    That's a fun image to scan around in. I spotted the Noctilux, the WATE, the Olympus 75, and what looks like Scarlett dealing Baccarat.

    Comparing the two files with ISO 10,000, the differences are great. But which is the MM9 and which the M246?

    scott
    It's in the metadata ... But the file names that start with L are the MM9.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    You know, Sean does excruciatingly careful studio tests so that the rest of us do not have to do them. I get interested in these questions sometimes, but I know I can't make myself be as thorough as he is. And he comes up with new tests from time to time - as recently he has been shooting bizarre, twisted frames that let you see exactly how sharp or unsharp corners of wide angle shots of distant objects will be, and what sort of DR and shadow noise you'll see in an MM or an M246 outdoors in harsh light. Sometimes his pictures are amusing (but not always).

    Send the man his $30! You'll learn stuff, and it will only make it take one day longer to save up for your APO 50 Summicron.

    scott
    Hi Scott,
    I certainly did not mean to imply that it was wrong that he charges for his hard work. And in re-reading my post, I still don't see that inference.
    I apologize if you thought otherwise. However, as Godfrey said, his model on how to read his postings does not work for me... So that puts my one day closer to the 50 than if I had paid...
    Best,
    Bob

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post

    Send the man his $30! You'll learn stuff, and it will only make it take one day longer to save up for your APO 50 Summicron.

    scott
    Learn what? How to waste time and pay a Leica pusher for it?

    I would rather buy a good book and/or attend a workshop to learn a thing or two.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'm not sending him any more money until he comes up with some way to read his content that doesn't suck rocks. No matter how wonderful his reviews are, they do me no good if I can't read them and use them in a reasonable manner, like maybe a PDF file that I can read, annotate, or print. And if he doesn't trust me to respect his copyright as his customer, well, why should I want to do business with him?

    G
    I subscribe and his content worth the cost. That said, I really hate not being able to read it on my iPad.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Just thought I would mention that there is a new FW update for the M246 and this is even before one has been delivered.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    I agree that Sean's reviews are great but very difficult to read due to formatting, etc. Has anyone asked him if he could change his site? I certainly will but wonder if there are enough paying members who might ask him about this.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by skimmel View Post
    I agree that Sean's reviews are great but very difficult to read due to formatting, etc. Has anyone asked him if he could change his site? I certainly will but wonder if there are enough paying members who might ask him about this.
    I think he's been asked hundreds of times - he's worried about people stealing content (rightly) and hasn't found a better way of doing it which he trusts.

    I'm working on him slowly

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think he's been asked hundreds of times - he's worried about people stealing content (rightly) and hasn't found a better way of doing it which he trusts.

    I'm working on him slowly
    Please work faster. Flash is an annoying PITA to anyone with an iPad or iPhone or who values long battery life on their Apple laptop.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think he's been asked hundreds of times - he's worried about people stealing content (rightly) and hasn't found a better way of doing it which he trusts.

    I'm working on him slowly
    As I said before, if he doesn't trust me as his paying customer to use his material in the way that I might use ANY review material, available anywhere else, then why should I be bothered to deal with him?

    Reviews are topical, short term bits of information that I want to be able to mine for data, annotate, and references in discussion. Reviews are of no value whatever if they can only be looked at through a peephole in the locked basement bathroom of a building set in the Alaskan tundra with sign on the door saying, "This property condemned ... Enter at your own risk."

    Sean should be more concerned with expanding the number of people who know his work, see it, use it, and talk about it with others. Instead, he puts the major focus of his efforts into locking out potential thieves, cutting off honest users who might otherwise get fair value from it.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    As I said before, if he doesn't trust me as his paying customer to use his material in the way that I might use ANY review material, available anywhere else, then why should I be bothered to deal with him?

    Reviews are topical, short term bits of information that I want to be able to mine for data, annotate, and references in discussion. Reviews are of no value whatever if they can only be looked at through a peephole in the locked basement bathroom of a building set in the Alaskan tundra with sign on the door saying, "This property condemned ... Enter at your own risk."

    Sean should be more concerned with expanding the number of people who know his work, see it, use it, and talk about it with others. Instead, he puts the major focus of his efforts into locking out potential thieves, cutting off honest users who might otherwise get fair value from it.

    G
    Godfrey, you've got a good point, that I suspect Sean really doesn't understand. He asks his subscribers not to say what is in his reviews, but the real value of a review is as a discussion-starter. And testing a review by comparing its results with the observations of others is, among other values, the only way to understand it.

    scott
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    Godfrey, you've got a good point, that I suspect Sean really doesn't understand. He asks his subscribers not to say what is in his reviews, but the real value of a review is as a discussion-starter. And testing a review by comparing its results with the observations of others is, among other values, the only way to understand it.

    scott
    I see Mr. Reid as a photographer first, tester/reviewer second, and publisher a distant third. It appears to me that he is more interested in protecting his work from the flagrant dehumanization that occurs to most content that is posted publicly on the internet than in maximizing its monetary value. (This post, for example, will quickly be copied into databases by companies that seek to make money off any value I may have created, without my explicit consent or any consideration.) I think that European lawyers refer to that as "moral property," as opposed to real, chattel, or intellectual, and Reid seems to place more value in it than monetary profit. Yes, I'd prefer a different format for his work, but the value he creates is worth the hassle for me. It might not be for someone else. There's no right or wrong here, as we all have our own preferences with information sources just as we all go our own ways with cameras and lenses, and I think the same applies to his choices in running his own publication. There's nothing wrong with expressing disapproval or disagreement, of course, but claiming that he doesn't understand the ramifications of his choices seems like a stretch.

    More on topic, I also find Egor's posts to be quite interesting. Both Egor's and Reid's content on the M 246 have something in common: they compartmentalize information reasonably well. That is, if you want to investigate a particular aspect of technical image quality, you can do so, but if you're not interested in the noise characteristics of a given setup from between one ISO and another, those sections are easy to skip without losing track of where the writer is going. Some of Egor's other posts are quite amusing and, like Reid though in a different manner, talk about the various aspects of their experiences in photography. I enjoy both their specific and general content. In a way, it feels like sharing a seminar experience with them, and I appreciate that.

    As far as the M 246 itself goes, I'm very glad the camera exists--I might want to buy it someday--but it requires more skill than I have at anticipating what sort of filter would maximize a given scene. Personally, I've decided to focus my photography in the coming months on producing black and white images, so it has an incredible allure, but I think the learning curve would be too steep. Shooting the M 246 would be akin, for me, to starting off as a photographer with only a 24mm lens. Maybe someday my skills with B&W will improve to the point that I could effectively use such a tool, but as a relative newbie a more general purpose tool is better for me.

    Cheers,
    Jon

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Just thought I would mention that there is a new FW update for the M246 and this is even before one has been delivered.
    Firmware update for M246? Where?
    - ErlingMM

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There
    I think this is a great article - detailed, carefully done, beautifully written, informative.

    Ultrasomething Monochrom Review
    Egor has published a second article on the MM246 now. Well worth reading too.


    enjoy!
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    More about gReGorY. :sleep006:

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    i liked the comment that the leica was better at being a camera than egor was at being a photographer...spoken modestly enough
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    When a brand is elevated like that then that is death for photography even when one gets its for free to write reviews.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Re: GrEGORy's review: Though I found it exhaustively prolix (which is a redundancy to mirror the article), I noticed a point that's been overlooked in the comments above about 12/14-bits:

    He claims to have looked very carefully for reduction in midrange tonality as a result of the bit reduction. As Godfrey mentioned, you'd have to do a very technical analysis to be 'scientific' about this; but Egor is pretty darned sure there's no difference that's visible in prints.

    I'm interested in pixel-peepin' only to the extent it applies to printed image quality, so this is a good omen – though I don't recall his saying what size prints he made and viewed (and I'm not going to wade through all those words again to check). I hope someone will check out his observation. My own concern is for prints on 17x22" paper.

    Kirk
    Last edited by thompsonkirk; 17th May 2015 at 20:48.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    Godfrey, you've got a good point, that I suspect Sean really doesn't understand. He asks his subscribers not to say what is in his reviews, but the real value of a review is as a discussion-starter. And testing a review by comparing its results with the observations of others is, among other values, the only way to understand it.

    scott
    HI Scott
    I quite agree . . .but Sean doesn't want to be in internet discussions (which is why he keeps well out of them). He found it all too stressful - and having been at the receiving end of some pretty nasty comments (not here I have to say) I can see his point.


    But there isn't really any security anywhere - you can just take a screenshot and there you are. So I still think he should make it iPad friendly.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    Re: GrEGORy's review: Though I found it exhaustively prolix (which is a redundancy to mirror the article), I noticed a point that's been overlooked in the comments above about 12/14-bits:

    He claims to have looked very carefully for reduction in midrange tonality as a result of the bit reduction. As Godfrey mentioned, you'd have to do a very technical analysis to be 'scientific' about this; but Egor is pretty darned sure there's no difference that's visible in prints.

    I'm interested in pixel-peepin' only to the extent it applies to printed image quality, so this is a good omen – though I don't recall his saying what size prints he made and viewed (and I'm not going to wade through all those words again to check). I hope someone will check out his observation. My own concern is for prints on 17x22" paper.

    Kirk
    Hi There Kirk
    ThighSlapper has done some printing on the LUF forum - he's very pleased.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    When a brand is elevated like that then that is death for photography even when one gets its for free to write reviews.
    HI Vivek
    I really enjoyed Gregory's posts - however, I can see that they aren't to everyone's taste (which is fine).

    But he hasn't got a camera for free for writing reviews (at least, not for more than a week or so!). I talk to him quite often, and I'm sure that this is the case. (Leica don't work like that anyway).

    All the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Hi Jono,

    How can anyone sell a camera when it is not announced and especially when they want to get feedbacks and with an embargo on saying anything publically about it until the release? It may be technically "on loan". Still I would not be paying even for shipping for such a camera with strings attached. It is a different matter when actually buying and owning a camera. These may the realities given the nature of the beast. Nothing more is implied.

    I just do not like any tool (however cherished/useful it may be) being elevated to something more than what it is. If I have cash, I can pick up an MM2 and a set of my choice of optics to go with it. As simple as that.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There Kirk
    ThighSlapper has done some printing on the LUF forum - he's very pleased.
    I recently replaced my old faithful Epson R2400 with a new P600. I have been testing print output ... I think my older cameras have all picked up another stop or so of dynamic range—printing on the same papers!—and a noticeable improvement in microcontrast as well.

    It will be a joy to use the MM246 when it arrives, I'm sure. :-)

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    So I'm curious if Leica will have a fix for the mesh pattern that appears when you push a file in LR..

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by aDam007 View Post
    So I'm curious if Leica will have a fix for the mesh pattern that appears when you push a file in LR..
    Is this something bad that needs a fix?
    I haven't seen it..

    G

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Is this something bad that needs a fix?
    I haven't seen it..
    G
    It's noticeable at iso12500.
    Take a look at the DNG files from Thorsten Overgaard, particularly portrait of the lady with a hat (shot with Leica 50mm Noctilux-M ASPH f/0.95 at f/0.95, 12500 ISO)
    http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M-Mono...Monochrom.html

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    As I said before, if he doesn't trust me as his paying customer to use his material in the way that I might use ANY review material, available anywhere else, then why should I be bothered to deal with him?
    I don't think it is you personally. There have been one or two cases where people on the internet have not respected other people's copyright and so these measures seem to be needed.

    Personally, I think I can be a little more forgiving to people worried about others stealing their work than people that find the control of that work a hinderance. When you look at the toll on the incomes of creative workers since the the invention of the WWW, it has been devastating. The only one to seem to make money with photography these days is Kim Kardashian--check out her new photography book--unbelievable!

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    But there isn't really any security anywhere - you can just take a screenshot and there you are. So I still think he should make it iPad friendly.
    Yep, coupled with OCR software and his content is easily taken.

    My wish is that he would ditch the subscription model and sell each review as an ebook. I found the content very helpful in making purchasing decisions. But the tech and the colours, not so much. And not every review topic appealed to me.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    It's noticeable at iso12500.
    Take a look at the DNG files from Thorsten Overgaard, particularly portrait of the lady with a hat (shot with Leica 50mm Noctilux-M ASPH f/0.95 at f/0.95, 12500 ISO)
    http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M-Mono...Monochrom.html
    Yes, it's noticeable at ISO 12500 ... more so when you've pushed Process 2010 instead of the current raw process version and are looking at the image at 1:1 pixel resolution!

    I don't know whether a small amount of pattern noise at stressed-out ISO 12500 is really a problem. I doubt it would ever be visible in any reasonably sized print. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't generally look at photos at 1:1 pixel resolution on display or paper.

    I printed an 11x17 of the photo onto Hahnemühle Bamboo paper. There's no pattern evident in the print. The quality is amazing for an ISO 12500 capture at that size.

    G

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    It's noticeable at iso12500.
    Take a look at the DNG files from Thorsten Overgaard, particularly portrait of the lady with a hat (shot with Leica 50mm Noctilux-M ASPH f/0.95 at f/0.95, 12500 ISO)
    http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M-Mono...Monochrom.html
    Not pretty. The Sony A7s is the beast to go to for low light, high ISO shots. Perhaps they should do a comparison shoot out with the A7s/Zhongyi Mitakon 50/0.95 vs MM2/Noctilux 50/0.95.

    (FWIW, there are artifacts visible in Jono's first shot of the Cellist at ISO6400. I assumed that it would be from an earlier firmware- or atleast that is what I expected the explanation would be.)

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Yes, it's noticeable at ISO 12500 ... more so when you've pushed Process 2010 instead of the current raw process version and are looking at the image at 1:1 pixel resolution!

    I don't know whether a small amount of pattern noise at stressed-out ISO 12500 is really a problem. I doubt it would ever be visible in any reasonably sized print. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't generally look at photos at 1:1 pixel resolution on display or paper.

    I printed an 11x17 of the photo onto Hahnemühle Bamboo paper. There's no pattern evident in the print. The quality is amazing for an ISO 12500 capture at that size.

    G
    The file is there for download, and if you change to Process 2012 you will see a slight reduction, but when adjusted to the final look of the image it is very close between Proccess 2010 and Process 2012.

    (I happen to prefer 2010 because it gives a more classic look and allow much more lifting of shadow details. I find the Process 2012 too artificial looking).

    It's the lifting of the shadows and the adjustment of exposure that create the more noise.

    I personally don't see it as a problem but many have been stirring at that pattern.

    I am more concerned what the actual b&w difference is between M240 and M246.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by overgaarcom View Post
    The file is there for download, and if you change to Process 2012 you will see a slight reduction, but when adjusted to the final look of the image it is very close between Proccess 2010 and Process 2012.

    (I happen to prefer 2010 because it gives a more classic look and allow much more lifting of shadow details. I find the Process 2012 too artificial looking).

    It's the lifting of the shadows and the adjustment of exposure that create the more noise.

    I personally don't see it as a problem but many have been stirring at that pattern.

    I am more concerned what the actual b&w difference is between M240 and M246.
    I downloaded it and experimented with it for a bit in LR6 before commenting. I disagree. I feel the image is about a third to half stop underexposed, considering the extremely elevated ISO setting and its reduced dynamic range. I wouldn't shoot at 12500 ISO if I was looking for 1600 ISO tonality. Process 2010 just makes it look worse, IMO. And remember that LR6 does not have an optimized calibration curve for the MM246 yet.

    It's a subjective thing, however—like one person might prefer Rodinal 1:100 vs another person's HC-110 dilution F. As I said, however, printed to an 11x17, no noise is evident when I look at the image as a photograph rather than with a magnifying glass. Fixating more on what the 1:1 pixel display looks like than on what a sensibly sized print (or realistically sized monitor display for web use) looks like is, to me, counter-productive. It's getting lost in the technology rather than enjoying the photography.

    The difference between M240 rendered to BW and MM246 is the interesting thing, I agree. At/near base ISO, the differences are small; at these insane sensitivities, they're two very different animals from what I've seen so far.

    I eagerly await the arrival of my MM246. :-)

    G
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    (FWIW, there are artifacts visible in Jono's first shot of the Cellist at ISO6400. I assumed that it would be from an earlier firmware- or atleast that is what I expected the explanation would be.)
    Hi there Vivek - that wasn't just an early version of the firmware, it was also a very early prototype camera (an exciting and unpredictable beast ) - added to which there was some pretty heavy processing of that shot (I still like it though)

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Such is the life of a reviewer. I do not envy you Jono.
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi there Vivek - that wasn't just an early version of the firmware, it was also a very early prototype camera (an exciting and unpredictable beast ) - added to which there was some pretty heavy processing of that shot (I still like it though)
    I like it too, Jono!

    Very film like, complete with fine scratches and such (although it does not attest to the high ISO performance of the MM2).
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I like it too, Jono!

    Very film like, complete with fine scratches and such (although it does not attest to the high ISO performance of the MM2).
    It certainly doesn't . .. but I thought it was good enough to put it in there. Must clean that sensor and report back

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Such is the life of a reviewer. I do not envy you Jono.
    Thanks Lou - but mostly I enjoy it, and dealing with the rubbish is therapeutic . . . not that there's any rubbish here!

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Thanks Lou - but mostly I enjoy it, and dealing with the rubbish is therapeutic . . . not that there's any rubbish here!



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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Part II of Erwin Puts' tests on the new Monochrom (MM-II):
    http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/camera/styled-50/

    Quite telling...
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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    BTW, the good news is that according to Jono (via PMs), the rubbish does get cleaned up on the MM2's sensor and it appears that the cover plate is more robust than that of the MM.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    BTW, the good news is that according to Jono (via PMs), the rubbish does get cleaned up on the MM2's sensor and it appears that the cover plate is more robust than that of the MM.
    Vivek
    Time for an upgrade next year?

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Lou, No. I am not quite convinced that the MM2 would do anything for me other than being a drain on my cash. Will use the MM until it dies and continue to update the M lenses. I am very happy with the A7s and would like to get another.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Reading Puts' review I got the impression that IQ-wise nothing is really gained by the MM2.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Reading Puts' review I got the impression that IQ-wise nothing is really gained by the MM2 [MM246 gdg].
    That may be true, but the rest of the camera is so much better that it's well worth buying the MM246 over the MM9, since I have neither.

    Of course, Erwin's report is at odds to what Egor's test photos suggest... I suspect I'll learn what I'd really like to know once mine is delivered. ;-)

    G

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    I just read Puts Pt. II – thanks for the link above. He's nearly persuaded me to forego the M246, since I never use very high ISOs. But there's one thing I'm concerned about, and that's whether or not 246 can improve noticeably on what my MM does worst: separation of upper-upper midrange and highlights, or what we used to call Zones VII – VIII. Here's a bad example (if not a very interesting photograph):

    This is just a test by Kirk Thompson, on Flickr

    Wanting to show the remarkable lightness/brightness of youthful ferns, I photographed this with a light yellow filter. This is what the image looks like with a moderate dose of PS processing. If I were actually to print it (I won't), I'd use Tony Kuyper's Zone System masks to get more differentiated highlights; but the point is that this is the best the sensor can do all-by-itself. And it's just not very subtle, is it?

    From the few examples I've seen – and as well as one can judge from Internet JPGs – the M246 might have an edge over MM in delivering shimmering highlights?

    Kirk

    PS, I bracketed several frames/files to be sure there were no clipped highlights. MM, MATE @ 28mm. This is two overlapping exposures, stitched, so the square image is larger than a FF file. Stitching doesn't alter tonalities.
    Last edited by thompsonkirk; 24th May 2015 at 14:09. Reason: PS

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    Re: The New Monochrom - a fine report

    Kirk, i believe that it comes down to better metering. The MM2 has a better metering protocol than the rather primitive metering in the MM. Why not underexposed and PP to your taste later?

    Edit. I see your addendum.

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