Mandler or Karbe?

[Vivek]

My Hector went caput when the aperture blades gave out, but do not fear I now have an old E39 Elmar 135/4 to play with.

Lou, That Hektor is still useful. You find another (where the glass is good) from the same era (important as there are a few versions) and swap the lens heads (they screw out).

 

[aDam007]

On the topic of Summicron vs Summilux... I've been debating this myself as well. It's not just that I don't need the speed (It comes in handy, for the types of weddings that I shoot)... But it's more that I'm actually starting to like the look I get from the Summicron lenses over the Summilux lenses. Even stopping the Summilux lenses down, I don't get that look.

I'm thinking of dropping my (almost every current Leica lens), for a select few tight work lenses.

I think I could get away with 35cron (or FLE if I chicken out and decide I need the extra stop), 50APO (wouldn't keep the lux or noct), 90APO (or 90elmarit which I just ordered because I wanted to play with something smaller then the 90APO). Then I can get rid of my slow and fast wides, and totally drop the idea of keeping my 28s and 75s lengths.

Who knows, but it's been on my mind for the past few months.

 

[algrove]

Lou, That Hektor is still useful. You find another (where the glass is good) from the same era (important as there are a few versions) and swap the lens heads (they screw out).

Thanks Vivek
I will look into that since they are propbably about the cheapest Leica lens on the market today.

 

[jlindstrom]

Juha, I adore all three lenses mentioned and for various reasons sold two which of course there is always regrets. I will say though the Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f1.5 in many ways is a strong contender in 50mm lenses that have a wonderful look.

Dave (D&A)

Dave: I've had and sold all three of them, along with rest of my M kit to move to X series. But now I went and pulled the trigger on a film MP. Got my favorite focal 50mm Summilux first, but it's the asph version. I was looking for a nice Mandler pre-asph 50 onstead, but locally their cost was barely 200€ cheaper than the asph. So I just couldn't wrap my head around it..

The 28 Mandler elmarit might be interesting to try.. but I've also been thinking about experimenting wider and going for a 24.

For the others, I will definitely get the 90 elmarit-m back at some point rather soon.. wide end, not decided yet.

Algrove: it's funny how opinions differ on ergonomics. I like the E46 sized ergonomics of the 50 summilux. For me the E39 sized smaller lenses were just too small.. perhaps I'm a bit hamfisted

//Juha

 

[algrove]

Algrove: it's funny how opinions differ on ergonomics. I like the E46 sized ergonomics of the 50 summilux. For me the E39 sized smaller lenses were just too small.. perhaps I'm a bit hamfisted

//Juha

Understand, however for me I very much like using the finger tabs on the smaller lenses. Keep in mind I am thinking mostly street here. Though my main go to street lens is the 35 FLE.


http://blog.leica-camera.com/photog...y-and-unpredictability-in-street-photography/

For landscape I like to go wide, like 18 or 21 primes.


http://blog.leica-camera.com/photographers/interviews/louis-foubare-making-every-minute-count

 

[Godfrey]

I've been thinking along that line, too: with such high ISOs, who needs Summiluxes any more?

I'd been thinking that as well . . . . . but that ability to limit the depth of field is hard to give up on (not so important at 75mm perhaps).

I have a few Walter Mandler designed lenses, I like his notions of how a lens ought to render.

The reason I sought and love the Summilux 35mm v2 is that by turning the aperture ring I can change the entire look of the photo, and the nuance that changes is not just depth of field. Every stop, every position on the aperture ring changes things a little bit.

Leica M9 + Summilux 35 v2
ISO 160 @ f/1.4 @ 1/2000 sec


Leica M9 + Summilux 35mm f/1.4 v2
ISO 200 @ f/8 @ 1/125


Leica M9 + Summilux 35mm v2
ISO 640 @ f/2 @ 1/45 sec


Leica M9 + Summilux 35mm v2
ISO 200 @ f/1.7 @ 1/30​

I don't know how he managed that, but I'm not likely to give up this lens any time soon—even if my Color Skopar 35mm f/2.5 P does a superb job as well.

G

 

[jlindstrom]

Understand, however for me I very much like using the finger tabs on the smaller lenses. Keep in mind I am thinking mostly street here. Though my main go to street lens is the 35 FLE.

There's a second difference! I flat out dislike fingertabs.. enough so I'm considering sending my 50 slux asph to Leica to have it shaved off.

I've just never got the hang of them.. constantly feeling they're in a wrong place and by using them I can't support the camera from the lens properly.

But yeah, these are all very personal things. But what's not so much are your? photos in those Leica blog links. Very nice work!

//Juha

 

[Shashin]

Lenses are designed on a real set of optical properties. Lens designers do not get to decide on the properties of light and glass. They have variables with which to work with, and yet lenses designs are relatively uniform with certain types. Optics and lens design is a science.

When you take a photograph there are also variables in the environment that effect the image. Photographers make choices as well. The sensor/film and processing add another level to that. And then there is whether the image is simply captivating--while we all like to think we are above advertising, it is interesting how many people "need" the camera company to shoot a compelling image so they can understand camera performance.

When you add it all up, it is actually really hard to find the correlation between a particular image with a particular lens designer.

One thing is sure, good lenses help to create a good image--in a technical sense. And a photographer's skill, or lack of it, can completely negate any benefit to having those optics...

 

[algrove]

There's a second difference! I flat out dislike fingertabs.. enough so I'm considering sending my 50 slux asph to Leica to have it shaved off.

I've just never got the hang of them.. constantly feeling they're in a wrong place and by using them I can't support the camera from the lens properly.

But yeah, these are all very personal things. But what's not so much are your? photos in those Leica blog links. Very nice work!

//Juha

You should leave the 50 lux the way it is, sell it and get the black chrome one which has no finger tab. As a matter of neither do the 24/1.4 and 21/1.4.

 

[Godfrey]

There's a second difference! I flat out dislike fingertabs.. enough so I'm considering sending my 50 slux asph to Leica to have it shaved off.

I've just never got the hang of them.. constantly feeling they're in a wrong place and by using them I can't support the camera from the lens properly. ...

I used to dislike them too, felt they were in the way.

But I changed the way I hold the camera,and how I focus when using an RF. Now I miss them when they're not there.

Funny stuff!

G

 

[aDam007]

You should leave the 50 lux the way it is, sell it and get the black chrome one which has no finger tab. As a matter of neither do the 24/1.4 and 21/1.4.

Personally I like the finger tabs. But when playing with the new black chrom 50lux I fell in love with the feel of it in my hand. It just has a more solid feeling when focusing, and the matte finish is beautiful.

Wish they made a Black Chrom 50APO

 

[jlindstrom]

One thing is sure, good lenses help to create a good image--in a technical sense. And a photographer's skill, or lack of it, can completely negate any benefit to having those optics...

From a purely rational point of view, all of what you said standa true. But there are a few variables...

1) people are not 100% rational, we tend to get emotional and justify things. We have feelings. And usually people do better when something feels right to them. Feeling right tends to show in the pictures..

2) Sometimes weaknesses or strengths of a lens support the style or vision of the photographer fex. the softer side of the Mandler lenses wide open might suite someones style better than the more modern & clinical sharpness of a Karbe's era lens.

And I'm sure there are other aspects to this as well.. But as long as we're talking about art, it's highly subjective rather than rational.

//Juha

 

[rich_]

I'm afraid I can't comment on who designed which lens without some more research, but I had a new 50 Lux asph and still own a 21 year old 35mm Lux Asph.

The 50mm was definitely sharper and both lenses exhibited the same kind of look and colours, but I do prefer the way the 35mm displays the image even if it wasn't as 'perfect'. I found the 50 lux relatively boring.

I realise these aren't similar focal lengths and the 50 Lux was certainly created a more appealing an image than my previous Nokton 1.5 Asph or more useful than a 50mm sonnar, but I did prefer the way the overall image from the 35mm was presented compared to a shot from that 50 lux.. even cropped, although i appreciate the compression is different.

I presume it is designed in a different way, if so, there is another perspective, but as the numerous other posts agree on- It's all subjective. I'm refraining from using words like 'drawing' and 'rendering'.

I hope you find a shop near you so you can play with all the lenses. All of these opinions mean sod all if you don't like it personally.
I ended up selling the 50 and using the money to buy a DF and a 50mm Sigma Art- Of which i prefer its output compared to the 50 Lux.

best of luck finding your ideal lens!

 

[uhoh7]

Mandler kept things together and put out some great glass....

But: SEM 21/24, 28 Cron, 35 Cron and Lux latest, 50 APO and Lux, 2 75s, 3 90s and well who did the 135/3.4?

If Karbe has anything to do with these lenses, his name should live as long as Mandler's.

 

[Bob]

One of the reasons I chose as my first lens for my Leica "re-entry" the 50 Lux pre-asph (1997 model) was that I knew that I liked the look especially when shooting people (well, girls, actually). That has not stopped me from acquiring a 50 lux asph for other use.
Each looks different, the pre-asph a bit "rounder" and the asph a bit crisper.
I reject the idea that one is objectively better than the other but I do have a preference based on the subject matter.
The last thing that is needed on images of many women is crisper.
-bob