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Thread: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

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    What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    So if reports are to be certain there will be a new Leica slimmed down M to be announced very soon. Rumors or not?

    Seems it will have the 24MP sensor of the M-P and will take both M and T lenses. It will also have a different "rangefinder" if that's what it can be called.
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    So if reports are to be certain there will be a new Leica slimmed down M to be announced very soon. Rumors or not?

    Seems it will have the 24MP sensor of the M-P and will take both M and T lenses. It will also have a different "rangefinder" if that's what it can be called.
    Wow Lou, where can I read more about this rumor that may turn out to be true. Something tells me Leica is not distancing themselves from their bread and butter, the optical rangefinder but finding ways to bring younger fresh blood thats used to EVF and AF yet keep options open for some of them to eventually step up to a traditional M digital rangefinder if so desired.

    I feel Leica made a lot of misteps with the T concept and well as maybe wity the X vario (whos image quality is great)....but now maybe can incorporate many of these ideas into an intergated modern product yet without giving up their roots...the traditional rangefindet we all love to use. We'll see whats in store soon enough.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 27th May 2015 at 06:02.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    If it is another boutique item, no interest at all.
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Well, I think most Leica fans would be quite happy to have just slimmed down M240. Make it a production run of the M60, in black paint & with strap lugs at normal prices and they'll have queues around the block at their stores..

    How I've come to understand things is that Leica/M fans love the simplicity. Adding to that gets people queueing and taking things away from it kills the business. The X and T business are there for autofocus and depending on chosen line simplicity or new technologies.

    //Juha

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    What reports?
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Wow Lou, where can I read more about this rumor that may turn out to be true. Something tells me Leica is not distancing themselves from their bread and butter, the optical rangefinder but finding ways to bring younger fresh blood thats used to EVF and AF yest keep options open for some.of them to eventually step up to a traditional M digital rangefinder if so desired.

    I feel Leica made a lot of misteps with the T concept and well as maybe wity the X vario (whos image quality is great)....but now maybe can incorporate many of these ideas into an intergated modern produxt yet without giving up their roots...the traditional rangefindet we all love to use. We'll see whats in store soon enough.

    Dave (D&A)
    The Mirrorless Rumor website makes some VERY positive statements, like they are 100% sure this will happen based on their Leica contacts. WOW! I have no idea, but Leica needs something other than an S 007 refresh to CMOS and an M246, 28/1.4 and repainted 50/1.4 and 35/2.0 to get sales going since after 6 months of "sales" things must still be bleak.

    I want Leica to succeed so anything to bring in more customers will be welcomed news. For me at this point I am pleased with how the 24MP cameras perform and as such if this "new" camera has that sensor then it could be of interest to me as a backup to my M240 platform. Right now I could care less about usability with T lenses.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    The Mirrorless Rumor website makes some VERY positive statements, like they are 100% sure this will happen based on their Leica contacts. WOW! I have no idea, but Leica needs something other than an S 007 refresh to CMOS and an M246, 28/1.4 and repainted 50/1.4 and 35/2.0 to get sales going since after 6 months of "sales" things must still be bleak.

    I want Leica to succeed so anything to bring in more customers will be welcomed news. For me at this point I am pleased with how the 24MP cameras perform and as such if this "new" camera has that sensor then it could be of interest to me as a backup to my M240 platform. Right now I could care less about usability with T lenses.

    Just slash the prices by 50% and things will start moving.
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Just slash the prices by 50% and things will start moving.
    100% agree that camera bodies should be cheaper by A LOT. Lenses, I'm fine paying for.
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    M,T,X,S,Q,... How many different systems do they plan to introduce.
    I wouldnt mind a slimmed down M though.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    I think they are following Sony strategy (if there is one ). Throw some stuff out and see what might catch on. Looks like a very expensive experiment to me. Add to this the flawed cameras being churned out. M8 (IR bleed), M9/MM sensor cover plates getting ruined,... not sure if the M240, MM2 will have defects. While the service may be better than the others, they can't be making goods like this again and again.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    So if reports are to be certain there will be a new Leica slimmed down M to be announced very soon. Rumors or not?

    Seems it will have the 24MP sensor of the M-P and will take both M and T lenses. It will also have a different "rangefinder" if that's what it can be called.
    Huge.

    Barnack. Barnack. Barnack.

    Current M9 and 240 are big, heavy and fat to me: though I love my M9 and it's my main shooter.

    M6: a joy in comparision.

    So a slim M would be great, but the question is of course: how is it implemented?

    The RF alone costs 750 USD for a 240, so this is playing into their thinking. I'd like to see a Slim W/RF as well.

    But fantastic news, I think.
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Well, to think of shaving something off the depth of the body.. Dropping lcd should shave couple of mm and also, though this is blasphemy, they could actually make lens mount stick out by 2-3 mm. Make the mount in body color and nobody will notice when lens is mounted..

    These together should help shave off 4-5mm of depth from the rest of the body and make it nice sized again.

    Also shaving the lcd should save bit of weight along with the materials lost when making body slimmer. And since there's no lcd to draw power, we could get similar battery performance with smaller & lighter battery also.

    In essence fine tune the M60 design to make it lighter and back to the size of film M.

    //Juha

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If it is another boutique item, no interest at all.
    That's all leica makes...

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Just slash the prices by 50% and things will start moving.
    Yeah, moving straight out of business.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Whatever it might be, I look forward to what Leica produces.

    Whether it's something that poses advantage to me or not I'll know when it is announced and released. :-)

    G

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    leicarumors.com has nothing on this so did it originate here with the OP?
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    leicarumors.com has nothing on this so did it originate here with the OP?
    No Mirrorles Rumors is where I first saw it.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    No Mirrorles Rumors is where I first saw it.
    Got it. I guess we'll know in a few weeks. I'm curious what the business logic would be behind this, but it's a bit pointless to discuss without knowing what the new product actually is.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    It could all be true, Sean Reid says he will publish a 'surprise' this Spring, but I worry that Leica are going to cobble together yet another 'parts bin special' and not push any boundaries.

    Steve

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    I suppose 'parts bin special' sounds better than "boutique item". I have to remember that.
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    We will know for sure when Jono posts his quick review and a few shots taken with the camera.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Has Leica even confirmed that they're making an announcement somewhere?

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    The date seems to be rumoured at June 10 or 11


    Steve

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    The date seems to be rumoured at June 10 or 11


    Steve
    Exactly, rumoured.. It's less then two weeks away and no teaser from Leica? No media invites surfaced? Nothing?

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Ever since the introduction of the M8, Leica has struggled to shoehorn all the necessary electronics into their M bodies, trying to get as close as possible to the form factor of the decades-old film bodies. As good and ergonomic as the digital M's are, and as much as we might laud Leica for not making them grow too much, there's no question that if you pick up a film body M you instantly see what has been lost.

    It doesn't surprise me at all that Leica would be striving to get back to that form factor. Especially in the context of figuring out what they should do as an encore to the M240/M-P.

    I love the current digital M form factor. But I'd love even more getting back to that in the M6 and M7. Consider me heartened by the rumor...

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Jono heads off to China in a week or so and I wonder what he has in his camera bag that we have never seen? I still remember his fish monger shot with the MM1 and 75/2.0.
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Jono heads off to China in a week or so and I wonder what he has in his camera bag that we have never seen? I still remember his fish monger shot with the MM1 and 75/2.0.
    China is not the best place to go for photography, especially the cities. Too much pollution to show anything beyond a few meters. Personally, I would pick some south american country.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Vivek, all that smog can be very atmospheric
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    China is not the best place to go for photography, especially the cities. Too much pollution to show anything beyond a few meters. Personally, I would pick some south american country.
    Just make sure you have smog cutting filters on each lens.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Just make sure you have smog cutting filters on each lens.
    Most there use a good mask to minimize breathing hazards. I am not aware of a good enough "smog" filter for that.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    I have plentyu of filters for sale and I am sure we can find one if you ever travel to the smog capital of the earth.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/leic...era-on-june-10

    If true, they are trying to emulate Sony creations.

    NEX-5N - Leica T.

    RX1 - ????

    What about an A7 II emulation?

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    Talking Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    They can't do it because "there is not enough room inside the camera body for a sensor cleaner". My eye!

    Sounds like an RX-1 clone. If the images can be had DNG then it might be interesting. That said the RX-1 lens has that nice quiet leaf shutter. Bet they can't emiulate that with a copal. If it is a 28mm that is interesting since it could be half the price of the new Summilux 28/1.4 M lens alone.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    There are good reasons for the absence of a dust shaker, etc. This is to minimise the glass stack in the optical path to record the maximum IQ offered by a lens.

    It would be nice if they would add a PTFE (Teflon) or many other new coatings available to protect the sensor cover glass from exfoliating or being a magnet for dust and grime.

    The leaf shutter (it is actually a silent copal like a focal plane shutter and not a real leaf) in RX1 can be bought from Copal.
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    "It would be nice if they would add a PTFE (Teflon) or many other new coatings available to protect the sensor cover glass from exfoliating or being a magnet for dust and grime."

    The heck with the sesnor cover glass being a magnet for dust and grime....how about it simply doesn't corode ala M9/MM

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Ever since the introduction of the M8, Leica has struggled to shoehorn all the necessary electronics into their M bodies, trying to get as close as possible to the form factor of the decades-old film bodies. As good and ergonomic as the digital M's are, and as much as we might laud Leica for not making them grow too much, there's no question that if you pick up a film body M you instantly see what has been lost.

    It doesn't surprise me at all that Leica would be striving to get back to that form factor. Especially in the context of figuring out what they should do as an encore to the M240/M-P.

    I love the current digital M form factor. But I'd love even more getting back to that in the M6 and M7. Consider me heartened by the rumor...
    Bolded stuff: Shouldn't that be "... you can see instantly what has been gained"?
    :-)

    I have the CL, the M4-2, the X typ 113, and the M-P typ 240 now. While there are clearly differences in size/weight/ergonomics between them, they're all in the "sweet zone" of size/weight/functionality as far as I'm concerned. The M4-2 and the X typ 113 are the closest in overall size, weight, and shape. I don't know how Leica can make a digital M of the same thickness as the M4-2 since the sensor stack is necessarily quite a bit thicker than film and pressure plate and the mount register cannot change if the lenses are to be compatible. At least, not without putting a big bulge in the front of the camera to allow more mount register.

    Although the M-P is 50-60g heavier than the M9 was, I find it trimmer and more comfortable to use—to the point where I can actually get the M-P and M4-2 confused when I'm shooting, except for the lack of a manual wind lever and despite that the M4-2 is physically smaller. They just feel similar in my hands now, and curiously more similar than the M9 to the same M4-2.

    funny stuff. :-)

    G

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    Thumbs up Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by aDam007 View Post
    Vivek, all that smog can be very atmospheric
    candidate for post of the month
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    My Flickr

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    The leicarumours site mentions a fixed lens camera, not an ILC. That rather changes the whole thing and becomes a lot less interesting.

    On slimming down the M's; why not just continue doing what they've already started - projecting the lens mount further from the body. Yes, the total depth of lens plus camera back to the LCD screen (or not) will be the same, but the body could otherwise go back to M3 to 7 thickness. I would go for that.
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    There are good reasons for the absence of a dust shaker, etc. This is to minimise the glass stack in the optical path to record the maximum IQ offered by a lens.

    It would be nice if they would add a PTFE (Teflon) or many other new coatings available to protect the sensor cover glass from exfoliating or being a magnet for dust and grime.

    The leaf shutter (it is actually a silent copal like a focal plane shutter and not a real leaf) in RX1 can be bought from Copal.
    My dust shaker was removed from my A7 last Jan, and I have still not needed a wet clean. Many lens changes.

    My personal conclusion: A7 dust shaker totally superfluous.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    I've never cleaned any of my M cameras, never needed to... Though I've never shot above f/5.6 and even that's rare for me. Most of the time I'm somewhere between 1.4 and 2.8
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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    China has many beautiful parts to film and the smog only covers a miniscule part when compared to the land mass.

    The rumour sites are stating that this will be a fixed lens with an EVF, rather than rangefinder mechanisms.

    I'm sure there will be a lot of happy and unhappy campers.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Let's say for a minute Leica goes crazy and makes something like this:

    1) FF (mono or color)

    2) Small w/dedicated aperture ring, shutter dial, and easy access ISO OR no LCD but dedicated ISO button

    3) Summicron 28 (literally an AF version of the summicron 28)

    4) EVF/RF hybrid.


    Why would I buy it when I already have 3x M-P240 cameras, and a **** ton of M lenses? It's not going to be cheap, and anything less then my suggested above specs won't make it of interest to most Leica fans.

    Let's say it comes in at $4k (that's cheap for Leica).. Considering you get an actual Leica built, real Leica M lens. So basically you're getting the camera body for free when you buy the lens... Still would you buy this over buying a lens for your M240/M246? Considering the body will be obsolete in 3-5 years, and you'll still be able to use the lens on the next big camera body. Whereas a fixed lens camera just looses money, and eventually you don't use it or sell it at a significant loss.

    And if you did buy it, why? Just because of the size? Does having a smaller size body really matter that much? Keep in mind the lens won't be able to be much smaller.. So it still won't fit in a pocket. Is it because of the AF?

    I hope I don't sound hostile, I know I'm tossing out a lot of questions, but I'm genuinely curious what's on peoples minds.

    And do people really dislike the size of the M240/M246/M-P? I actually find the size fine.. My MPfilm and my M7 actually cramped my hand because they are to small (sold off the M7 just recently). Honestly they could reduce the weight a bit, my shoulder would thank me.


    I'll leave everyone with one final point.... IF Leica made a M body exactly like the M240 (size, weight, dials, rings, menus) BUT instead of an RF made either a hybrid RF (see Xpro1 or even something like ContaxG, or that weird concept camera) and made the lenses AF (exactly the same M lenses, but AF versions).. I would buy that in a heartbeat.. WHY, because for me, even though I shoot weddings with M cameras, I find that sometimes it does become a hassle. Especially when the wedding is uneventful and I'm not in the zone... Then I start thinking about things, my mind wanders, and I start imagining what life would be like if my M240/M-P whatever were an AF camera with the same joy to use RF style framing.

    That and I feel bad for older die hard Leica fans who have eye problems and can no longer use the brand and M lenses they love

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by aDam007 View Post
    Let's say for a minute Leica goes crazy and makes something like this:

    1) FF (mono or color)

    2) Small w/dedicated aperture ring, shutter dial, and easy access ISO OR no LCD but dedicated ISO button

    3) Summicron 28 (literally an AF version of the summicron 28)

    4) EVF/RF hybrid.


    Why would I buy it when I already have 3x M-P240 cameras, and a **** ton of M lenses? It's not going to be cheap, and anything less then my suggested above specs won't make it of interest to most Leica fans.

    Let's say it comes in at $4k (that's cheap for Leica).. Considering you get an actual Leica built, real Leica M lens. So basically you're getting the camera body for free when you buy the lens... Still would you buy this over buying a lens for your M240/M246? Considering the body will be obsolete in 3-5 years, and you'll still be able to use the lens on the next big camera body. Whereas a fixed lens camera just looses money, and eventually you don't use it or sell it at a significant loss.

    And if you did buy it, why? Just because of the size? Does having a smaller size body really matter that much? Keep in mind the lens won't be able to be much smaller.. So it still won't fit in a pocket. Is it because of the AF?

    I hope I don't sound hostile, I know I'm tossing out a lot of questions, but I'm genuinely curious what's on peoples minds.

    ....(
    These are exactly the reasons why I did not see a reason to own/keep a RX1 besides my Leica M.
    The x2 is another thing, because its considerably smaller.

    But for those who do not yet own a Leica M system..and who like 35mm FOV...
    Or for those who prefer an EVF over a optical one (I prefer the optical)

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    I hope Leica has injected something special into this camera and focused on utility rather than Audi associated aluminium ingots mined from the moon and milled on Mars. After the 'T' I really want to see the basics fulfilled as well as some novel aspects. I still feel the T was a huge opportunity missed by a mile.

    One assumes 24MP CMOSIS sensor?

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Personally, I am very thankful to the "T" as it made me appreciate my NEX-5N even more.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    I'm now considering options for something new and look forward to what Leica introduces. But it's hard to imagine a small 28mm camera that justifies thousands more than the near-perfect GR. But I'm open-minded.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    I actually quite like the T... sold my A7s, kept the T... no regrets whatsoever...
    Back to the topic, looking forward to what this camera will offer or not offer...

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisV View Post
    I actually quite like the T... sold my A7s, kept the T... no regrets whatsoever...
    Back to the topic, looking forward to what this camera will offer or not offer...
    Just curious, do you also own a digital M?

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Just curious, do you also own a digital M?
    Yes, I have an M9.

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    Re: What to make of the new Leica slim M?

    So people would by a small camera then, if it were full frame, and somewhat intuitive. BUT would you pay for it being a fixed lens, when most of you have a M and can just buy a lens for your M.

    Paratom - I didn't know there even was an RX2 rumour that said it would be significantly smaller. I just couldn't see giving up the M-system for something else Leica cooks up, unless it were the M-AF pipe dream I mentioned above.


    I guess we'll have to wait and see what it is, and then continue this chat.. Personally, I couldn't really see anything being of interest to me, since I have the M-system.

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