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An open letter to Leica (2015)...please share your own thoughts
- Thread starter ashwinrao1
- Start date
rscheffler
New member
Coming late to this thread, but will add my 2¢:
I'm a Leica photographer since 2010. I use the equipment professionally alongside Canon DSLRs. Leica is an integral part of how I cover many the events/jobs I photograph. I love the M system and am extremely encouraged by the technological progress evident in the M240 vs. the M9, the capability of the Q and what it likely bodes for the next round of cameras.
The greatest failing of Leica, IMO, is service repair TIME. Often service quality is good, though I'm currently dealing with an incorrectly repaired lens and having some trouble getting it sorted out. And everyone at Leica has been great to deal with in person, when I've had the opportunity. But 6-8 week turnaround time is utterly ridiculous and must be improved.
It is my #1 request of Leica.
In terms of future product, it's more along narrowly focused details than a grand concept. Probably because I already like the M system so much...
- An M body with much more reliable, much faster electronics package: deeper buffer, option for higher fps if desired, no more random lockups.
- Fully electronic shutter option.
- Aluminum top plate to reduce weight. Heck, make it composite, carbon fibre, polymer, whatever.
A few comments about other comments/requests:
T system: I briefly tried it and liked it in general. But it felt too slow and likely would benefit greatly from the Q's electronics package. Put the Maestro II in it, along with firmware improvements in a new body (current design is fine with me) before deciding whether to kill it off. Oh, and Leica blundered IMO with the lens release. While the zooms are fine, the system needs more than one prime. There should be at least 3 or 4. Something wider, a normal equivalent and a portrait lens. But maybe this is what the Q interchangeable lens system will be?
Summarit-M lenses: Am I the only one extremely disappointed with the 'new' line? Fine, it's a cosmetic refresh, but with a ~40-50% price increase. Maybe it's our own faults. So often I read in forums about the inferiority of the Summarit lenses compared to the rest of the M lens lineup. I suppose the only way Leica could improve the line's credibility was to increase prices.
I'm a Leica photographer since 2010. I use the equipment professionally alongside Canon DSLRs. Leica is an integral part of how I cover many the events/jobs I photograph. I love the M system and am extremely encouraged by the technological progress evident in the M240 vs. the M9, the capability of the Q and what it likely bodes for the next round of cameras.
The greatest failing of Leica, IMO, is service repair TIME. Often service quality is good, though I'm currently dealing with an incorrectly repaired lens and having some trouble getting it sorted out. And everyone at Leica has been great to deal with in person, when I've had the opportunity. But 6-8 week turnaround time is utterly ridiculous and must be improved.
It is my #1 request of Leica.
In terms of future product, it's more along narrowly focused details than a grand concept. Probably because I already like the M system so much...
- An M body with much more reliable, much faster electronics package: deeper buffer, option for higher fps if desired, no more random lockups.
- Fully electronic shutter option.
- Aluminum top plate to reduce weight. Heck, make it composite, carbon fibre, polymer, whatever.
A few comments about other comments/requests:
T system: I briefly tried it and liked it in general. But it felt too slow and likely would benefit greatly from the Q's electronics package. Put the Maestro II in it, along with firmware improvements in a new body (current design is fine with me) before deciding whether to kill it off. Oh, and Leica blundered IMO with the lens release. While the zooms are fine, the system needs more than one prime. There should be at least 3 or 4. Something wider, a normal equivalent and a portrait lens. But maybe this is what the Q interchangeable lens system will be?
Summarit-M lenses: Am I the only one extremely disappointed with the 'new' line? Fine, it's a cosmetic refresh, but with a ~40-50% price increase. Maybe it's our own faults. So often I read in forums about the inferiority of the Summarit lenses compared to the rest of the M lens lineup. I suppose the only way Leica could improve the line's credibility was to increase prices.
Umm... YES. The older Summarit lenses are stellar, and really cheap now considering what they were priced at. And also used market 2.5s are a no brainer.
I've always liked them. The 75,35,50,90 in that order.. Although I've never had a need for the 50 and the 90 isn't last, just the last one I'd buy, since I find the 75 to be straight up awesome. And just to put it out there, 0.7m should have been on the first version of this lens.
Godfrey
Well-known member
So here's the thing ...
Right now I can get a Summarit-M 75mm f/2.4 for $1892 (current discounted price) which includes 0.7m minimum focus and lens hood. Or I can get the Summarit-M 75mm f/2.5 for $1599 + $84 for the lens hood and hood cap, but can only focus to 0.9m minimum distance. That's a $200 premium for the updated design including hood and 8" worth of focusing distance.
Is it worth it? (oh, the devil is in my mind today... ;-)
G
Tough call at that price. If you want to buy either of them new, the extra $200 might be worth it, since 75mm at .7m is actually a bit closer then most lenses in that range. Good for detail shots. I never used my hood on my 2.5 but I did have one. I prefer pull out hoods, like the 75APO has, it's just easier for me.
I'd personally pickup a used 2.5 at $1k which is where I've seen them lately on the forums. Or check out this legit source:
(I've bought from them before)
Brand New Unused Leica Summarit M 75mm F2 5 6 Bit F 2 5 M 240 M9 M8 2 E 11645 4022243116450 | eBay
But again... That .7m on 75mm is mighty close (worth the $200 I'd say).
For the 90 Summarit, I think I'd go for the old one. No real reason to update it.
I actually like it better then the pre-APO cron and 90elmarit both tele and latest version.
Actually one could make a pretty awesome kit with a summarit 35/75 or even a 50/90 and an M9 at the prices they are selling for these days. You'd be set for all of life's adventures
Godfrey
Well-known member
That's what I thought. I might just go for it.
I use the hoods all the time, they almost never come off the lens once I get it out of the box. They help protect the lens as well as control flare.
re: 90mm ... I've often thought about one of the newer 90mm lenses, then I pull out my M-Rokkor 90mm f/4 (mine is an early production, so identical to the Elmar-C 90 other than the bezel) and realize it's still a fantastic lens. If I were to buy a newer 90mm, I'd go for the Macro-Elmar-M 90mm f/4 kit: having the close up capability would be nice.
G
airfrogusmc
Well-known member
We all need to remember besides creating the early 35mm rangefinder Leica M has not been innovative. How long did it take them to put a meter in an M. No auto focus yet (thank God). What I like and hope that Leica M offers is something I can't get with the mass produced, one size fits all cameras the big two crank out. I want a camera that keeps me involved in the process. And am I the only one that remembers when Leica M was over twice the price of the top-o-the line pro Canons and Nikons? Now they are about the same price. So does that make the M a bargain? I'll pay extra to not have a camera that does everything for me. I don't want, use or need auto exposure, FPS or auto focus. I just want a camera that gets out of the way and lets ME create. As long as they make a product like that I will buy. If you want all those things I don't you have all the others to choose from. As long as Leica stays different we have a real choice.
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V
Vivek
Guest
Interestingly, just within a short time my whole view has changed. I appreciate your post.
Quite interesting really given that Leica was the first company to patent autofocus...
My message to Leica: take your camera bodies as seriously as you do your microscopes.
The body is an instrument. Do your best to design to purpose. When in doubt look back to the beginning: Ur-Leica. Small footprint, high quality.
M240 way too big, way too heavy. At least get the RF version of your body back to M6, in fact a digital M6 replica would cause widespread fainting and huge pre-orders, no matter how many fans say the current body is "fine".
If you give EVF option on RF camera, build it in. No more fragile warts, please.
Make an EVF M body, but give us more focus aids than Q. At least, the Mag box needs to move. Make this body small, light and very tough. Weather proof, obviously.
Build a helicoid into the M mount so we can close focus. Do it well. This is not rocket science.
Leica, I cannot fault your lenses. Give us some new bodies which are as compact and as high quality.
The body is an instrument. Do your best to design to purpose. When in doubt look back to the beginning: Ur-Leica. Small footprint, high quality.
M240 way too big, way too heavy. At least get the RF version of your body back to M6, in fact a digital M6 replica would cause widespread fainting and huge pre-orders, no matter how many fans say the current body is "fine".
If you give EVF option on RF camera, build it in. No more fragile warts, please.
Make an EVF M body, but give us more focus aids than Q. At least, the Mag box needs to move. Make this body small, light and very tough. Weather proof, obviously.
Build a helicoid into the M mount so we can close focus. Do it well. This is not rocket science.
Leica, I cannot fault your lenses. Give us some new bodies which are as compact and as high quality.
V
Vivek
Guest
What did they use it for? AFAIK, one of the Focomats (film enlarger) had an AF mechanism. Do you know of any where the patents were used?
BTW, the long forgotten Leica S1 was the first medium format digital platform.
Ditching the R mount was not a great move especially when that system had better lenses than its contemporary M system lenses.
Super Angulon
New member
+1. M240 is way too large.
Not sure. All I know is that they sold the rights afterwards to Minolta.
I am very curious about the (delayed) new S I have to say.
I own the S2 and it is a great camera but anno 2015 trying to sell a 37.7MP CMOS camera that is at least one year late for $25K has got to be a challenge!
Hopefully I am wrong...
airfrogusmc
Well-known member
Smart for not putting auto focus on the M..
Godfrey
Well-known member
Let's be very clear what you're talking about in terms of the size difference between an M6TTL and an M typ 240 when you say "M240 is way too large"... from Camerasize.com:
Leica M6 TTL is 1% (1 mm) narrower and 4% (3 mm) shorter than Leica M.
Leica M6 TTL is 10% (4 mm) thinner than Leica M.
Leica M6 TTL [585 g] weights 14% (95 grams) less than Leica M [680 g] (*inc. batteries and memory card).
Leica M6 TTL dimensions: 138x77x38 mm (camera body only, excluding protrusion)
Leica M dimensions: 139x80x42 mm (camera body only, excluding protrusion)
As you can see, the biggest difference is the 95g (3.4 oz) difference in weight. Having both cameras right here on the table in front of me (well, my M4-2 which is a little bit smaller than the M6TTL) it's easy to be confused over which is which until you pick them both up. Then the 95g difference is noticeable.
The Leica M was never a super small, super light camera, film or digital. It was always just smaller and lighter than most pro-grade SLR cameras. That remains true today.
G