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Thread: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

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    Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Leica:
    "Since the recognition of a corrosion-related problem on the cover glass of the sensors of the above-mentioned camera models (see information from 10.12.2014), we have been working with our sensor supplier on a long-term technical solution.

    The development phase of a new generation of sensors has now nearly been completed. In the next phase, independent users will be testing the new sensor in practical situations to guarantee that the imaging characteristics of the cameras remain unaltered.

    After completion and evaluation of this testing phase, we will begin the replacement of corroded sensors by the new-generation sensor.

    As the goodwill arrangement for the replacement of affected sensors applies irrespective of the age of the camera, and also to sensors already replaced in the above-mentioned camera models, repairs will continue without interruption until the new sensors are available.
    Please understand that sensor replacement can only be offered for cameras affected by the concrete problem and that preventive replacement is not possible."

    Latest information on the CCD sensors of the Leica M9 / M9-P / M Monochrom and M-E camera models // 2015 // Global // About Leica News // Leica News // World of Leica - Leica Camera AG
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Excellent News

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Excellent News
    This is incredible news, and fantastic service by Leica to refresh a previous-generation sensor. In my mind, this gives new life to those interested in the Leica M9. As many know, I have been a huge fan of what Leica accomplished with the M9 and M Monochrom, and it's so refreshing to see a company invest in its customers in this manner.
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    It really instills confidence in investing in such expensive equipment and not only bodes well for current users and or buyers/sellers of M9 or M9M cameras, but for knowing the xonpany stands behinds both its words and products. As I expressed elsewhere, kudo's to Leica for doing this.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Great news for me and my M9-P!

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Where did the article say it was CCD? It just said next generation sensor. It could be CMOS with replaced circuit board couldn't it?
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    somebody better buy my monochrome!

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Here is what I saw in the article I read: "Leica states that they are currently working on a "new generation of sensors" and "will begin the replacement of corroded sensors by the new-generation sensor".

    I thought it was an interesting choice of words in that they did not say a new generation of CCD sensors or a new CCD sensor. It appeared to be intentionally vague. I would think finding a foundry that would make a small run of a new CCD sensor design and the cost to create such a design would not make economic sense. Thus I would see them designing a circuit board that would interface a CMOS sensor into the current design of the M9 electronics as it would be far less expensive and easier to provide going forward. It also then makes sense out of the following quote from the original article:
    "The development phase of a new generation of sensors has now nearly been completed. In the next phase, independent users will be testing the new sensor in practical situations to guarantee that the imaging characteristics of the cameras remain unaltered."
    If it was CCD would this be necessary? I don't know the answer but I would think not. However, maybe they have gone CCD but it just got lost in the translation.
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Hi John,

    You can get into the details in Brian's excellent thread:
    http://www.leicaplace.com/threads/1232/#post-9387

    This is a near identical sensor, with some small changes to address the issue. However the new cover glass might effect the output, which is what they will be testing, least we react negatively LOL
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Thanks for the clarification. The other announcement on Leica Rumors seemed vague. From a technical standpoint it would be interesting to understand the issues. Is it the glass cover, bonding adhesive or the silicon wafer itself that is causing the problem?
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. The other announcement on Leica Rumors seemed vague. From a technical standpoint it would be interesting to understand the issues. Is it the glass cover, bonding adhesive or the silicon wafer itself that is causing the problem?
    AFAIK, it is the sensor cover glass that exfoliates. They should have done it in the first place. But better late than never.
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    My meagre understanding: it is both the adhesive and glass cover, combined with the tendency of the sensor to heat when in constant use.

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    My meagre understanding: it is both the adhesive and glass cover, combined with the tendency of the sensor to heat when in constant use.
    Um, that would explain why my sensor looks like it does

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    This kind of behaviour goes a long way to support Leica prices. That's how a premium company should behave. Kudos

    Daniel
    The most pathetic person in the world is someone who has sight, but has no vision. - Helen Keller
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    For the next goodwill gesture Leica can make an adequate R solution. Been waiting for that a lot longer than M9 owners have.
    Doug Herr http://www.wildlightphoto.com
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Excellent! Removes any questions about keeping my MM!

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by innerimager View Post
    Excellent! Removes any questions about keeping my MM!
    me too!

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    I have my M9 in for service right now in New Jersey, I originally thought I did not have the corrosion issue, yet impound I did when Leica contacted me. Here is what they told me.
    First off it will be about 3 months to get my sensor replaced and it will not be with the just announced sensor, ETA undetermined at this point is what they told me. I then asked whether if I have the sensor replaced could I then send my M9 back when the new sensor comes out they had no answer. All I was told is the senor I would be getting will come with a 3 year warranty.
    So my takeaway from the whole conversation was they will only replace a sensor if it showing the corrosion issue. One cannot assume that when the new sensor does become available that Leica will replace the sensor for free.

    Now for myself I have the difficult decision to make, so I wait 3 months to get my M9 back or take Leica up on there offer to upgrade to a M240 / M-P
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    I have my M9 in for service right now in New Jersey, I originally thought I did not have the corrosion issue, yet impound I did when Leica contacted me. Here is what they told me.
    First off it will be about 3 months to get my sensor replaced and it will not be with the just announced sensor, ETA undetermined at this point is what they told me. I then asked whether if I have the sensor replaced could I then send my M9 back when the new sensor comes out they had no answer. All I was told is the senor I would be getting will come with a 3 year warranty.
    So my takeaway from the whole conversation was they will only replace a sensor if it showing the corrosion issue. One cannot assume that when the new sensor does become available that Leica will replace the sensor for free.

    Now for myself I have the difficult decision to make, so I wait 3 months to get my M9 back or take Leica up on there offer to upgrade to a M240 / M-P
    FWIW, When the service center in New Jersey informed me that they could not provide a date when the sensor would be replaced, after the date they originally provided had passed, I choose to upgrade to the M-P 240. At the time the M9 was 4.5 years old, which I bought used, and the trade in value of $4250.00 towards the M-P was a good deal. The bonus is that the M-P 240 is a fantastic camera.

    I did love the M9 and would have kept it if they did replace the sensor on the original date they provided. I just did not want to wait on a repair indefinately and decided it was time to move on.


    Good luck with your decision.

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Steven, my understanding is that regardless of how old, Leica is committed to replacing any of the original M9 designed sensors if corrision becomes an issue. So I am a bit perplexed when they said your replacement sensor (which will be of original design) will only come with 3 year warranty. Maybe that means 3 years of something other than corrosion takes place??

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by seakayaker View Post
    FWIW, When the service center in New Jersey informed me that they could not provide a date when the sensor would be replaced, after the date they originally provided had passed, I choose to upgrade to the M-P 240. At the time the M9 was 4.5 years old, which I bought used, and the trade in value of $4250.00 towards the M-P was a good deal. The bonus is that the M-P 240 is a fantastic camera.

    I did love the M9 and would have kept it if they did replace the sensor on the original date they provided. I just did not want to wait on a repair indefinately and decided it was time to move on.


    Good luck with your decision.
    Curious did you trade in a MP-9 or an M9?
    Leica is quoting me $3500 for an M240 and $3750 for an M-P
    Steven Kornreich
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by seakayaker View Post
    FWIW, When the service center in New Jersey informed me that they could not provide a date when the sensor would be replaced, after the date they originally provided had passed, I choose to upgrade to the M-P 240. At the time the M9 was 4.5 years old, which I bought used, and the trade in value of $4250.00 towards the M-P was a good deal. The bonus is that the M-P 240 is a fantastic camera.

    I did love the M9 and would have kept it if they did replace the sensor on the original date they provided. I just did not want to wait on a repair indefinately and decided it was time to move on.


    Good luck with your decision.
    I am leaning towards the M-P upgrade,
    Curious did you trade in a MP-9 or an M9?
    Leica is quoting me $3500 for an M240 and $3750 for an M-P

    Dave yes you are correct, what I was trying to explain for my situation is I would still receive the old sensor and when the new one eventually comes out the only way to could receive it is if my new replacement sensor went bad again.
    Steven Kornreich
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    My M-E is two-months-old, and at the one month mark I noticed some lines and spots in the sensor. Since the camera was so new, Leica gave me a July 7 "appointment" to clean or replace the sensor as required, and the camera has been at Leica NJ since July 2. I am eager to hear from them whether or not my sensor is corroded, but doubt that I would get the new and improved sensor as a replacement.

    It doesn't matter if I do or don't as I am delighted with the way the existing sensor renders images and am confident that if replaced with the original type (or hopefully just cleaned) that I will enjoy years of trouble-free use and a free sensor replacement if and when it is ultimately required.

    Here are a few images where the lines and spots aren't too noticeable (wide aperture) from my recent trip to Korea.


    Leica M-E with 50mm f/2 Summicron (v5)

    L1001471.jpg by Lawman1967, on Flickr

    L1001501.jpg by Lawman1967, on Flickr

    L1001485.jpg by Lawman1967, on Flickr


    Leica M-e with 1963 Zomz 5cm f/1.5 Jupiter 3

    L1001077 by Lawman1967, on Flickr

    L1001062.jpg by Lawman1967, on Flickr

    L1001037.jpg by Lawman1967, on Flickr

    L1000971.jpg by Lawman1967, on Flickr
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    And here is the line on my M-E sensor.

    Sensor Line

    f:16 by Lawman1967, on Flickr
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    I've been on the fence about the MM because of the sensor issue, but Leica's announcement just pushed me over. I've now got one coming from a member here. It's a financial stretch for me, so I'm hoping all goes well.

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I've been on the fence about the MM because of the sensor issue, but Leica's announcement just pushed me over. I've now got one coming from a member here. It's a financial stretch for me, so I'm hoping all goes well.

    John
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Curious did you trade in a MP-9 or an M9?
    Leica is quoting me $3500 for an M240 and $3750 for an M-P
    I had the M9 and choose to upgrade to the M-P model for the $3750. I wanted the additional 2GB image buffer and other feature set that the M-P model had available. I thought for the additional $250.00 it was great value for the extra dollars spent.

    Good luck with your decision.

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    This is one of the reasons I initially bought the S...I had such a good experience in the past regarding Leica cameras with issues (which all cameras have, especially higher end ones...for whatever reason) that I was confident that they would support the camera fully. I had an M7 with the older gold DX contacts, and it started to have erratic behavior when it was well out of warranty. They took it in and switched it to the electric contacts, gave the camera a full CLA and even replaced the leather (it was a la carte), all for free. Their behavior in this regard goes far beyond what I have experienced from other camera brands, and it gave me a lot of confidence in being able to invest such a significant sum into the cameras. I had another high end brand charge me 1000 euros in "preventative maintenance" on a brand new malfunctioning product still under warranty...suffice to say that Leica's behavior made me a customer for life, while the exact opposite was true for the other brand. This combined with the fact that you can talk directly to the people at the headquarters who can really solve problems makes for much greater peace of mind in purchasing.
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Just found out today my brand-new M-E needs a new sensor, and I'll get it back in late September (ouch). They are sending me an M240 loaner until my camera is finished.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by asiafish View Post
    Just found out today my brand-new M-E needs a new sensor, and I'll get it back in late September (ouch). They are sending me an M240 loaner until my camera is finished.
    That was nice of Leica to offer you a M240 loaner to use, they did not offer me this, so after about 2 weeks of debating what to do I decided to go for there M-P upgrade which just showed up about an hour ago UPS overnight.

    Since Leica is sending you a loaner, I would ask them if they can just hold on to your M-E until the "new" sensor starts shipping. If they replace your sensor now (September) you are basically getting the same sensor that went bad for you in a few months. Something to consider.
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    That was nice of Leica to offer you a M240 loaner to use, they did not offer me this, so after about 2 weeks of debating what to do I decided to go for there M-P upgrade which just showed up about an hour ago UPS overnight.

    Since Leica is sending you a loaner, I would ask them if they can just hold on to your M-E until the "new" sensor starts shipping. If they replace your sensor now (September) you are basically getting the same sensor that went bad for you in a few months. Something to consider.
    I did and so far the answer was no. I will ask again in early September as right now they just don't know if the new sensor will test positively or not. By September testing may be complete.

    Either way is fine, I'll have a new sensor, a 3 year instead of 2 year warranty on the entire camera and the sensor is warranted forever.

    Oh, they didn't just offer the M240, I asked for it and they agreed, mainly on account of my M-E only being 6-weeks-old at the time I scheduled the service.
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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    "6-weeks-old"

    I didn't know Bakersfield, CA was so humid!
    Just kidding. At least you are back in business with the loaner.
    Was that a new camera or a used one you bought?
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Question for every/anybody on this thread:

    Are you seeing the problem in your actual photos?

    TIA

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    Re: Leica: new CCD sensor almost ready for M9

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    "6-weeks-old"

    I didn't know Bakersfield, CA was so humid!
    Just kidding. At least you are back in business with the loaner.
    Was that a new camera or a used one you bought?
    Brand new camera, not used.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    Question for every/anybody on this thread:

    Are you seeing the problem in your actual photos?

    TIA
    The line in my sensor corresponded to the lower third of the image area, so usually I couldn't see it even when stopped down, never wide open.
    "A fella, A quick fella, might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel." The Gyro Captain
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