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Getting tired of Diglloyd

peterv

New member
I know Mr. Chambers is a thorough and knowledgeable reviewer, but as of late he seems to have an extra large ax to grind with Leica. Most of his reviews of Leica products are quite negative.

He just tested a Leica S and encountered AF problems. Incidentally, he also reported AF problems in his original S2 review. I've used my S2-P for 2,5 years now and like most other S system owners, I can confirm that AF is very, very accurate.

If he has these AF errors, assuming Mr. Chambers knows how to operate the camera, he has a faulty camera and he should not publish a review that hurts Leica. I understand he's not pleased because he feels his valuable time was wasted, but that doesn't mean he should bad-mouth a complete system like this.

I had planned to become a subscriber again, just to read his thoughts on the S system, but I guess I'll hold off for now.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I know Mr. Chambers is a thorough and knowledgeable reviewer, but as of late he seems to have an extra large ax to grind with Leica. Most of his reviews of Leica products are quite negative.

He just tested a Leica S and encountered AF problems. Incidentally, he also reported AF problems in his original S2 review. I've used my S2-P for 2,5 years now and like most other S system owners, I can confirm that AF is very, very accurate.

If he has these AF errors, assuming Mr. Chambers knows how to operate the camera, he has a faulty camera and he should not publish a review that hurts Leica. I understand he's not pleased because he feels his valuable time was wasted, but that doesn't mean he should bad-mouth a complete system like this.

I had planned to become a subscriber again, just to read his thoughts on the S system, but I guess I'll hold off for now.
I think he is a very academic tester.
When he wrote about the AF problems with the S2 I wrote him that my S2 was focusing very consistent. He didn't really accept another truth than his truth.
I still sometimes read his reviews, but from my experience with various products one has to know that his findings do not always reflect real life use of those products.
The other thing is he is focusing way too much (IMO) on small negative aspects instead of giving a full picture about a product.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Its a shame that lloyd allows his emotions to get the better of him ...especially on his blog posts . His actual tests are quite good and almost always reflect a careful and methodical process. Its his rants that undermine his credibility .

I ve had an S2 since they were released and now have in addition the S 006 ...plus most all the S lenses. In my experience the S produced .....my favorite IQ over any other system . The combination of IQ and aesthetic that is most pleasing to me . In addition the S has a form that allows for a wide range of uses ..its a joy to use .

AF is precise ...if you have a well defined “target” it will just nail it most every time . It is however not always accurate because it has a fairly large focus point (inside the focus circle) and can be fooled by a lack of a clearly defined high contrast edge . The more you use it the better you become at placing the focus point .

If something inside the focus point has a high contrast edge (but is not the target ) you will get a “precise “ focus on the edge . Fortunately the S2/S has a terrific bright screen and I can see the point of focus ...so when I m on a tripod ....I will make manual adjustments to place it where I need it .

If you look at the test conditions used by lloyd ....not hard to see that the AF could struggle depending on where you place the focus point . If you can t see well enough to focus manually ..he has a valid point for some situations .

The play back on the LCD is not up to modern standards ....my daughter has the Canon 5DS R and simple one button play back zooms in on the actual focus point . Even the new LCD on the “Q” provides much better feedback and of course the S2/S does not support Live View .

Yet when I shoot landscape ....I am always at F11 -F16 so I hardly miss focus at all . And when I am finished I have files that are superb by any standard .
 

Paratom

Well-known member
you can fool most cameras AF.
I find the S AF works very accurate and incase when it is irritated you can see it in the viewfinder.
I use the lenses wide open often and get pretty reliable results.
The great thing is one doesnt have to do micro adjustment for the lenses like one has to with Canon/Nikon/Pentax.

Its ok if Loyd points out eventual problems, he just makes them bigger than they are sometimes. And it would be sad if people dont buy/use a great product just because they take reviews like Loyds too serious.
 

atanabe

Member
I guess the moral of the story is that you need to test your gear before you are out in the field. If the AF was misbehaving, it should have been noted while in the comfort of civilization and taken care of. I can feel for his angst after hiking with a heavy backpack only to find that his gear is not working up to his standards.

I have had issues with AF on my S2 but after bringing it to Leica's attention, all of my lenses and body were sent back for calibration, a loaner system sent to me for the duration and all at no charge to me. The main thing is that I did not wait for an important trip to test my equipment performance. Yes, for the price it should be perfect, but this is the real world things happen.
 

peterv

New member
Exactly why I said it gets tiresome. Thanks for digging these up and making my point!

I used to be a subscriber, but stopped a few years ago because I have no need for his reviews. I like to read his blog, though lately the anti-Leica campaign seems to have reached a new peak.
 

peterv

New member
Of course not, but it can be misleading to people who try to make a choice.
Precisely Tom! And it's also not in the interest of this outstanding system as a whole. There's no need for negative publicity. I believe the system is on a threshold at the moment.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Given that Lloyd has an “attitude problem” and clearly doesn t appreciate Leica . Many of his frustrations are real ...I use all the gear he talks about . Honestly I have not picked up a single Leica camera since the M8 that didn t require some effort and too many required trips to the factory . As Al pointed out ..you have to plan for it .

When I took out my brand new S24 and tried to use it on my S 006 (also new) ...no AF . Keep in mind I use an S2 . Turned out to be a setting I didn t understand ...rear AF button is part of “Manual Focus” . Once I corrected the settings ...all was perfect again . I was definitely unhappy as I was in the Everglades . But I had my S2 and by noon I figured it out (by emailing my friends at the Leica Store Miami ) . So a little pre shoot familiarization can go a long way to keep things going smoothly .

One good question for lloyd should be ......why didn t you verify the focus using the screen . The S has a much larger,brighter and all around better screen than his D810 . How can he focus a OTUS at F1.4 with a standard D810 screen if he can t see focus on an S ?

I also have the Nikon D810 ,Leica R lenses and the Zeiss OTUS . While you can get terrific results with either system.....the Leica S consistently produces brilliant files that require modest amounts of post processing . The presets I obtained from David Farkes at LSM produce a wonderful aesthetic . This is using the embedded profile provided by the camera in Lightroom . This is not at all my experience with the D810 ....you can get there but it requires a higher level of post processing skill . In the end I prefer the Leica files .....

The Nikon s will come and go as technology advances but I am pretty darn happy with the S system . Don t be put off by lloyd s frustrations its a terrific system .
 

atanabe

Member
... In the end I prefer the Leica files .....

The Nikon s will come and go as technology advances but I am pretty darn happy with the S system . Don t be put off by lloyd s frustrations its a terrific system .
At one point I considered ditching the S and moving on, after looking at the options out there decided to keep it . . . the files I get from the S kept pulling me back.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Maybe he hates Leica, maybe not - I do not know!

BUT I already stopped subscribing to his reviews years ago, as I found most of them not helpful anyway. Plus I expresses this concern already here in this forum at least once!

Anyway, no one is forced to subscribe to such sites.
 

stephengilbert

Active member
I loved the over the top drama of the Q report, And, of course, the arrogance: "Look, if you’re a street shooter walking out of your hotel or whatever and then back to a dinner and coffee, maybe the Q works for you." But if you're an intrepid risk taker such as moi, better use something else.
 

turtle

New member
His approach seems to be one of 'ego first'. From that one can make one's own assessment of objectivity.
 

Leigh

New member
Honestly I have not picked up a single Leica camera since the M8 that didn t require some effort and too many required trips to the factory . As Al pointed out ..you have to plan for it .
That is absolutely amazing.

The computer age has certainly destroyed our expectations of quality.

Problems used to be the domain of second-rate products sold through bargain-basement outlets.
Now it's the norm because all products are second-rate, sold through bargain-basement outlets.

It is NEVER acceptable for any new product to require factory service for any reason... period.

- Leigh
 

silver92b

New member
I had not read this before and was blissfully unaware of Diglloyd. I can definitely see that he writes brutal reviews and seems to have a particular animus towards Leica. I wonder why he bothers using and reviewing products that invariably fail him?

There is of course a kernel (if not a loaf) of truth in his rants. But I must side with those who challenge his writings. All he writes about is probably true as far as his experience goes. The problem I see is that he singles out certain products to castigate mercilessly while ignoring all the other competitive products which have many issues equally troublesome.

I bought a used M240 and might have experience a minor hang up or 2 but nothing like he writes about. If I read his reviews before buying the M240, I would have run from it and lost the wonderful experience of owning and using this fine camera. If this person has influence over people, he is denying them the opportunity to enjoy the good aspects of the products he bashes without offering suitable alternatives.

It's kind of sad actually to basically see enshrined in credibility the rants of of someone who could easily be a troll in any of a number of photography/camera forums. Yes, Leica and other brands do not make perfect products and there defects in operating systems and hardware which need correction. But it's not fair to run all these real issues with subjective opinions on the design and intent of the products.

While I am not an expert scientist or world known photographer, I don't see even a portion of the criticisms about things like button placement and menu organization to be too annoying if I just read the users manual or ask others for help. As far as AF failures, lock ups, etc. Every other digital camera I've used has had them... These issues are not unique and calling the M240 a piece of **** is really pretty extreme. Diglloyd comes across as a bomb thrower and a troll, regardless of his credentials.
 

silver92b

New member
That is absolutely amazing.

The computer age has certainly destroyed our expectations of quality.

Problems used to be the domain of second-rate products sold through bargain-basement outlets.
Now it's the norm because all products are second-rate, sold through bargain-basement outlets.

It is NEVER acceptable for any new product to require factory service for any reason... period.

- Leigh
I totally agree with you on principle. However, the world does not operate in such a way any more. The fast paced progress in technology and science coupled with the tremendous competition to get "new" products to market make it impossible to produce extremely complicated products perfectly reliable.
For instance, there is a huge difference between a purely mechanical, rather simple device as a film rangefinder camera and the digital rangefinders of today. It's perfectly possible to design and execute a brilliant film camera that will function perfectly out of the box. That is relatively easy to accomplish. OTOH, the digital cameras are far more complex and delicate mechanically and contain very complex electronic parts and very complicated programs to make the images. All this needs far more time to perfect than the companies can afford to spend. By the time they get a "perfect" product, it would be hopelessly obsolete.

This is why the spaceships, ballistic missiles, nuclear submarines and many other very critical systems are still using the most reliable, tried and true computers older than the ancient 80386.
 
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